[3.5 Worldbuilding] What would you substitute?

[Ragabash]

I've been toying around with a campaign concept that would be run in three parts on a single world. The first part would be set in the bronze age, using material from a few third party sourcebooks I've collected, the second using fantasy steamtech mostly culled from FFG's Sorcery& Steam, and the last part run using FFG's Dragonstar setting.

I won't go into the story details right now, but I have run into a bit of a technology problem. Bronze is not an ideal metal for a longsword and is far too soft to be used for a rapier blade. What, if anything, would you give elves instead of the proficiencies in those two weapons?

[chronoplasm]

You know in the Lord of the Rings movies where the elf soldiers have those spears with the two blades at both ends?
I'd give elves pole arms.

[Yakk]

Ah! You could steal inspiration from the Greek city-states for the Elves even? :-)

[Ragabash]

I'm trying to keep the technology at least somewhat accurate, though, and polearms in the bronze age were basically spears and tridents. The trident wouldn't be the worst substitution, but I'm not sure if it has the right flavour.

As for taking inspiration from the greek city states... I'm working on it. I might draw somewhat more from the bronze age of the british isles than the Mediterranian and Mesopotamia. If all else fails, I'll draw on imagination rather than history. :smalltongue:

[chronoplasm]

Maybe substitute a weapon proficiency for a shield proficiency so the elves can do a hoplite phalanx?

[Yakk]

http://www.historynet.com/weaponry-greek-phalanx.htm

Ya, the phalanx is an early iron age invention.

Hmm. How about the hunting spear, bow and arrow?

Elves can have a culture of skirmishing and avoiding direct conflict, while chipping away at enemy forces and supply lines.

[chronoplasm]

Dang.
Silly me.

But yeah, Hunting Spear/Bow and Arrow makes sense to me.

[Ragabash]

Spears would be perfect if they weren't already a simple weapon. Otherwise that would have been my first thought.

The shield proficiency isn't too bad of an idea, though... rather that the fencing single blade style that is implied to be taught to all elves, they could have an earlier short sword and shield style. That isn't the greatest for wizards and sorcerers because of spell failure, but it's something...

[Telonius]

Are you looking exclusively for weapons to replace them, or would adding an entirely different racial bonus be acceptable?

[Ragabash]

Are you looking exclusively for weapons to replace them, or would adding an entirely different racial bonus be acceptable?

A different racial bonus would be perfectly fine, as long as it boils down to a cultural difference. As the campaign would shift to the steam and space ages, they would return to the stock characteristics.

[Gerion]

I would say, don't change the weapon proficy. Change the metal, use silver or somethig like that.
Elves have build great empires before the Humans get out of the Stoneage.
You could even use iron weapons just only elves have them. Like Conan perhaps where the evil priest is searching the secret of steel. The elves just don't share the knowledge.


Alternativ give them the Weapon focus with a weapon of their choice.

[chronoplasm]

I would say, don't change the weapon proficy. Change the metal, use silver or somethig like that.
Elves have build great empires before the Humans get out of the Stoneage.
You could even use iron weapons just only elves have them. Like Conan perhaps where the evil priest is searching the secret of steel. The elves just don't share the knowledge.


Alternativ give them the Weapon focus with a weapon of their choice.


I like this idea.
I think a neat campaign would be one where the races are each at different levels of technological development.

The orcs are still at a neolithic level of development.
The humans have bronze.
The elves have iron.
The dwarves have steel.

[Ragabash]

That could work if it didn't go against my established history. Both dwarves and elves developed bronzeindependantly, and humans have it by a gift from the dwarves. There's a lot of history there, at some point I may start a topic about setting building. Part of the reason I'm doing this is to not cripple humans right out of the gate. If dwarves and elves can by default have better equipment, or have fantastic trade leverage over other races, there's no reason for anyone to play anything but an elf or dwarf.

Besides, it's gnomes that are the real scientific achievers.:smallamused:

[chronoplasm]

Makes sense.
It's a pretty good idea.

What if you home-brewed up some kind of special pole-arm for elves to use? As suggested, you could do the thing with the two curved blades at both ends of a pole. Or, what if you do some sort of klingon bat-blade dealie?

[Ragabash]

Makes sense.
It's a pretty good idea.

What if you home-brewed up some kind of special pole-arm for elves to use? As suggested, you could do the thing with the two curved blades at both ends of a pole. Or, what if you do some sort of klingon bat-blade dealie?

I'm not sure if substituting a martial weapon proficiency with what would have to be an exotic weapon proficiency is really balanced, though. It would look really cool, but I don't want to accidentally give any race an advantage over the others.

[Gerion]

you could make it like the Weapon Familiarity of dwarves, make one or two new exotic weapons and elves use them as martial weapons.

For the balance, it is balanced if the weapon is not so above the others (2d10 18-20 x3).
Some of them are just exotic because you never see and use them because they origin from the other side of the world.

[Eldan]

Well, if all else fails, make yourself a martial spear. Like, take the shortspear and give it 1d8 damage. Should make a fine elven martial weapon.

Elven Spear
1d8 damage, crit x2, weight 5 lb, piercing damage, range increment 20ft.

[Ragabash]

Some of the ideas are pretty workable... maybe have the Greatspear from Complete Warrior count as a martial weapon for elves, or scale it down slightly for a single handed weapon. That sounds fairly balanced, and has the advantage of being a believable for the bronze age while still looking like something elves would use.

Okay, I think I have the answer to my problem. Thanks for your help everyone.


I guess if anyone has questions or comments about other aspects of my campaign idea you should feel free to ask, now that the OP is a resolved issue.

[Yakk]

Elven Spear
1d8 damage, crit x2, weight 5 lb, piercing damage, range increment 20ft.

Meh.

Elven Hunting Spear
1d6 damage, crit x3, reach 10', weight 5 lbs, piercing damage.
Can be used as a Quarterstaff at 5' reach.

That becomes an interesting weapon. It's a low damage spiked chain.

[Prometheus]

I think elves should have an upgraded javelin. Maybe you'd have a two-handed throwing weapon that is ordinarily exotic but elves get weapon proficiency or maybe you'd just increase the statistic of a regular javelin and make it martial. Actually, the trident is already an upgraded javelin with higher damage and shorter range so you'd either use that or you'd change the range of the javelin.

[Ragabash]

I think elves should have an upgraded javelin. Maybe you'd have a two-handed throwing weapon that is ordinarily exotic but elves get weapon proficiency or maybe you'd just increase the statistic of a regular javelin and make it martial. Actually, the trident is already an upgraded javelin with higher damage and shorter range so you'd either use that or you'd change the range of the javelin.

A heavier javelin would become a spear, though. To increase damage you would have to make the head larger and the shaft heavier for increased weight and impact. Thus... it's a spear, and not a martial weapon. Besides that, how would one do a two handed throw of a javelin? There would be no way to get the leverage needed to give it any distance.

I think I'll stick with giving bronze age elves the greatspear as a martial weapon. It is basically the hunting spear many of you are describing anyways. I might just uses the stats for the small version instead for a one handed weapon, but I'm not sure 100% on that.