pronouncing problems

[bentheiii]

I need some help pronouncing the names of the order. So far I've pronounced them belker (instead of belkar), hayli (haley), elen (elan), I've already given up trying to pronounce vaarsuvius, and my best one yet -Xylon (Xikon)!
And so I ask you... how do you pronounce this?????

[Sir_Norbert]

Well, most of them aren't that difficult.

Belkar -- like "bell car"
Haley -- this is an existing human name, so pronounce it the same way
Roy -- ditto
Elan -- like the surname "Whelan" without the "wh"
Vaarsuvius -- like Vesuvius but with an "ar" sound, i.e. var-SOO-vee-us
Xykon -- like "zye con". Not with an "l". One of the prequel books features a character called "Xyklon" as a light-hearted joke about the strangely large number of people who for some reason pronounce his name with an "l". :)

[Spiryt]

Hm, this prononounciation seems like a real problem.

Like, it keep reocuring so often that this link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4992)is sticked in "reocuring threads" section.

I don't have many problems, although I'm pronouncing all in a bit polish way - Elan's "E" is a bit more like in "beg" than in "Whelan". I'm too lazy to change it :smalltongue:

[Chronos]

Xykon -- like "zye con".Or like "ksye con". I'm not sure why people always insist on turning an initial X into a Z-- It is actually possible to pronounce it the same way you'd say an X anywhere else.

And Vaarsuvius has two As for a reason. It's Va-ar-su-vi-us.

[Sir_Norbert]

Yes, it's possible, but it breaks English's phonological constraints. Plus, there is a continual running gag about people calling him Zykon, Xykon correcting them, and someone else saying "Wait, how did he know I was saying it with a Z?"

"Va-ar" would also break English phonological constraints. (I know the characters live in a fantasy world, but the thing is still written in English for an English-speaking audience.)

Plus, word of The Giant says you're wrong on both counts :)

[Lissou]

When saying "Vaarsuvius", I do tend to make the first syllable a bit longer due to the double A, I think it sounds good that way. But, it's not enough to write it as two As phonetically.

[Draz74]

Yes, it's possible, but it breaks English's phonological constraints. Plus, there is a continual running gag about people calling him Zykon, Xykon correcting them, and someone else saying "Wait, how did he know I was saying it with a Z?"

You, sir, seem to be making arguments without citing them very well.

In particular, where does this "continual running gag" occur? (I mean in the strip. I understand that it happens constantly on the Forum.) I haven't read Start of Darkness, so it might be there, but otherwise I don't remember this dialogue exchange ever occurring. And I know the strip pretty well. :smalltongue:

Edit: I do, however, pronounce Xykon with a z-sound anyway.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

You, sir, seem to be making arguments without citing them very well.

In particular, where does this "continual running gag" occur? (I mean in the strip. I understand that it happens constantly on the Forum.) I haven't read Start of Darkness, so it might be there, but otherwise I don't remember this dialogue exchange ever occurring. And I know the strip pretty well. :smalltongue:

Edit: I do, however, pronounce Xykon with a z-sound anyway.It's in SoD. There may be one strip with it as well, but I can't remember it.

[Chronos]

Plus, there is a continual running gag about people calling him Zykon, Xykon correcting them, and someone else saying "Wait, how did he know I was saying it with a Z?"Yes, precisely. That implies that there's a difference in sound between "Xykon" and "Zykon", or Xykon wouldn't be able to hear it, but it's a subtle difference, or others would notice it, too. The distinction in pronounciation between an initial X and an initial Z would match that nicely.

"Va-ar" would also break English phonological constraints.Which would be relevant, were "Vaarsuvius" an English word.

[Kish]

Yes, precisely. That implies that there's a difference in sound between "Xykon" and "Zykon", or Xykon wouldn't be able to hear it,
It's a stick figure comic. Xykon doesn't hear it, he sees it.

As Spiryt mentioned, the pronunciations used by Rich are here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4992. They're:


EE-lin
HAY-lee
vahr-SOOV-ee-us
DUHR-kon
ROY
BELL-karr
ZYE-kon
NAIL
sa-BEEN
THOG
YIK YIK
ZIZ-di-tree
HILL-gee-ya
DOOR-oo-kon

If anyone has any other names I forgot, let me know.

[WalkingTarget]

Here's a post from over 3 years ago.


EE-lin
HAY-lee
vahr-SOOV-ee-us
DUHR-kon
ROY
BELL-karr
ZYE-kon
NAIL
sa-BEEN
THOG
YIK YIK
ZIZ-di-tree
HILL-gee-ya
DOOR-oo-kon

If anyone has any other names I forgot, let me know.

edit - bah, edit ninja'd!

[Deepkicker]

Yes, precisely. That implies that there's a difference in sound between "Xykon" and "Zykon", or Xykon wouldn't be able to hear it, but it's a subtle difference, or others would notice it, too. The distinction in pronounciation between an initial X and an initial Z would match that nicely.
Which would be relevant, were "Vaarsuvius" an English word.

Yes, but that Xykon explanation completely negates the joke. If there was subtle difference of pronunciation between Xykon and Zykon then it wouldn't be funny. This gag basically clarifies how Xykon's name is spoken.

[Theodoric]

'aa' is viable in Dutch, where it's pronouced as [aː] (in IPA), I think, although it might be closer to [ɑː]. I've never been good at IPA.

That's the way I pronounce it, and doesn't at all seem weird to me.

[Sir_Norbert]

Which would be relevant, were "Vaarsuvius" an English word.
What language do you think it is -- Japanese?

Invented names in fiction written in English, just like invented words in nonsense poetry written in English, should always be interpreted according to English phonology unless you have a strong reason for doing otherwise. Just look at the other OOTS names -- Durkon, Belkar, Nale, Thog, Yokyok.... all of those make sense according to English spelling and pronunciation conventions, just like the nonsense words in Jabberwocky. (Zz'dtri is of course an exception, for reasons that I hope are too obvious to be worth stating.) When we reach Azure City and encounter names that are meant to be pronounced according to the conventions of other languages (I think Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese and Korean have all been used?) the whole point is that these contrast with the Englishy names we've had earlier.

[Nibelung]

What language do you think it is -- Japanese?

Latin.

First time i see the Word of God talking about the name pronouncing. I ever called some of then a little different.

- sa-BEE-nee to Sabine
- shee-KON to Xykon (in portuguese, starting X are pronounced like a SH, and Y are like "short i")
- do-ru-KAN to Dorukan
- e-LAN ("short e" for start)

And i ever knew how pronounce "Nale", but i had some frineds that called him "NAH-lee". They were convinced by be on strip 367 with the pun about "Thog nail not-nale, not nale".

[Kish]

What language do you think it is -- Japanese?

It's Common.

[Lissou]

Be careful about saying it's latin... That makes V a male >.> :P

[Chronos]

What language do you think it is -- Japanese?No, Elvish.

[Danukian]

And i ever knew how pronounce "Nale", but i had some frineds that called him "NAH-lee". They were convinced by be on strip 367 with the pun about "Thog nail not-nale, not nale".

Nale is preonounced Nail - which is how is looks phonetically (Vowel-consonant- E) as well making the "nail not-nale, not nale" seem like insane rantings to anyone listening, not reading.


Be careful about saying it's latin... That makes V a male >.> :P

No, it doesn't - several Latin female names end in -us, though it is not the norm.

[Lissou]

No, it doesn't - several Latin female names end in -us, though it is not the norm.

Really? I thought it was the case only for cities...
Anyway, it's an Elvish name, not a Latin one, so it doesn't follow the rules for Latin, regardless or which they are.

[Danukian]

Really? I thought it was the case only for cities...
Anyway, it's an Elvish name, not a Latin one, so it doesn't follow the rules for Latin, regardless or which they are.

Never heard of Venus?:smalltongue:

But I agree - it's Elven. not Latin.

[Nibelung]

Nale is preonounced Nail - which is how is looks phonetically (Vowel-consonant- E) as well making the "nail not-nale, not nale" seem like insane rantings to anyone listening, not reading.

Yep, i know. But in portuguese all our vowels are pronounced like yours short vowels. We dont have 2 pronounces for each vowel, like the "a" could be "êi" or "ah". basically, thats the same problem that we have with Xykon.

[Regneva]

Roy -- ditto


Interesting. I always pronounced "Roy" like "Roy" as in "Roy"
:d ...joke

[Lissou]

Yep, i know. But in portuguese all our vowels are pronounced like yours short vowels. We dont have 2 pronounces for each vowel, like the "a" could be "êi" or "ah". basically, thats the same problem that we have with Xykon.

Same in French, and Xykon would definitely be pronounced "Gzee-koh" (oh being an approximation of the French sound "on") and no other way by the French reader.
Nale, though, would be pronounced the English way by the virtue of looking like an English word. Of course, it would be pronounced the English way with a French accent.

[Nerdanel]

In Finnish Xykon would be pronounced like KSÜÜ-kon. I always pronounced in the intended way, though (not that I had anyone to pronounce it to, so I didn't actually say it out loud).

Vaarsuvius is more like Finnish though so I always pronounced in my head as if it were Finnish, with a long ah and stress on the first syllable. In fact I think I'm going to use that pronounciation in my head since it's so much more "natural" to me.

I think Qarr is written with double-r because the final r is always supposed to be pronounced, like "car" when the next word begins with a vowel.