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Epinephrine
2008-09-12, 04:21 PM
I have decided to use the feat Stone Power rather than Power Attack for a character, but the character is also taking feats that key off Power Attack - for example, Combat Brute. Stone Power is treated as a replacement for Power Attack as a pre-requisite, and operates in a similar manner - you take a penalty to hit (max -5), and instead of getting a damage bonus you get temporary hit points that last until your next turn, equal to twice the penalty you took (hence, max +10 HP).

I selected Combat Brute for it's interaction with Improved Sunder - I can smash a weapon or shield, and if it breaks get an immediate attack against its wielder.

Another feature of Combat Brute increases the multiplier on power attacks to 1.5 for one handed weapons and to 3 times for 2-handed weapons (following a charge, if you use at least a -5 to hit on Power Attack)

I'm debating asking the DM if we can have some sort of effect from the Stone Power/Combat brute combo, as it suck to throw away a part of a tactical feat -

How would you have the Combat Brute and Stone Power (and hence other feats) interact?
a) Not at all, they are different feats.
b) Treat Stone Power as a version of Power Attack, hence getting a benefit with some feats, but being vulnerable to things like Elusive Target

If b), would you
b1) Have it affect the HP generated, in a manner similar to the way damage is affected by feats?

b2) Have it grant bonus damage equal to the amount of bonus it would normally generate (hence, using the Momentum Swing option of Combat Brute, a -5 to hit with a two handed weapon would still grant +10 temporary HP, but would give a bonus of +5 damage)?

Thanks for input!

Starbuck_II
2008-09-12, 04:26 PM
How would you have the Combat Brute and Stone Power (and hence other feats) interact?

If b), would you
b1) Have it affect the HP generated, in a manner similar to the way damage is affected by feats?


If I was going to houserule I'd go with this

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-12, 04:28 PM
If I was going to houserule I'd go with thisStone Power+Power Attack+Leap Attack+Shock Trooper. You deal massive damage, and even if you miss, all they do is get rid of your temp HP.

Keld Denar
2008-09-12, 04:28 PM
Since Stone Power only counts as PA with respect to using it to qualify for feat trees, and not for how it interacts with other feats, I'd think the official answer would be sorry, no. You can't make a Stone Power Leap Attack, why would you be able to use Momentum Swing.

That is, unless your DM rules otherwise. Then I'd say it would probably be a 1.5x multiplier on the temp hp you gain, rather than getting any extra damage out of it. So, first round you Stone Power away 5 points of AB to gain 10 temp hp. The next round, you dig in further and spend 5 more points of AB, this time to gain 15 temp hp. Would it be overpowered? Not hardly. Would it be fun? Could be. Ask your DM.

fractic
2008-09-12, 04:29 PM
I'm going to go with option a. Feats that improve power attack have nothing to do with stone power and shouldn't increase the effect of stone power.

AstralFire
2008-09-12, 04:51 PM
A is RAW
B1 is how I'd rule since Stone Power sucks if you are not a lowbie Crusader.

Epinephrine
2008-09-12, 04:55 PM
A is RAW
B1 is how I'd rule since Stone Power sucks if you are not a lowbie Crusader.

Not - dwarven rogue with a greathammer, specialises in sabotage/demolitions.

I know the RAW answer, but I do appreciate all opinions - I'll probably summarise the points here to discus with the DM :smallbiggrin:

AstralFire
2008-09-12, 05:12 PM
Not - dwarven rogue with a greathammer, specialises in sabotage/demolitions.

I know the RAW answer, but I do appreciate all opinions - I'll probably summarise the points here to discus with the DM :smallbiggrin:

Ah. So you ensure you're going to get usage out of the HP by... exploding things at close range...?

Well, that's one way. It still sucks at high level, though.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-12, 06:01 PM
Stone Power+Power Attack+Leap Attack+Shock Trooper. You deal massive damage, and even if you miss, all they do is get rid of your temp HP.

Nope. All it does is Give Massive Temp Hp if it hits. Remember, I chose Option B1. You are talking about Option B2.

I don't agree with that as a houserule too Overpowered.

B1 is a houserule that is allowable and not overpowered.

AstralFire
2008-09-12, 06:05 PM
Nope. All it does is Give Massive Temp Hp if it hits. Remember, I chose Option B1. You are talking about Option B2.

I don't agree with that as a houserule too Overpowered.

B1 is a houserule that is allowable and not overpowered.

I think he was suggesting both Power Attacking and Stone Powering on the same hit.

Prometheus
2008-09-12, 06:40 PM
I'd try to come up with an appropriate replacement for all the aspects of Combat Brute - one to do something other than attacking after a sunder and the other to improve your Stone Power. That way, you aren't customizing a feat to your own character and you aren't getting suckered into a lame feat.

Chronos
2008-09-12, 06:46 PM
Nope. All it does is Give Massive Temp Hp if it hits.As a nitpick, the extra HP from Stone Power only depends on attacking, and not on actually hitting.

Darrin
2008-09-12, 10:38 PM
I selected Combat Brute for it's interaction with Improved Sunder - I can smash a weapon or shield, and if it breaks get an immediate attack against its wielder.


Hmm... I wonder if that works with Mountain Hammer.



How would you have the Combat Brute and Stone Power (and hence other feats) interact?
a) Not at all, they are different feats.


That would be my take on it. Combat Brute specifically mentions using Power Attack. Using Stone Power isn't the same as using PA, and the special text in the description doesn't say that taking a penalty with Stone Power is treated the same as taking a penalty with PA.

Have you considered combining Stone Power with Lady's Gambit? It's much more optimal if you have 4 levels of Crusader, but even without Steely Resolve you can get +5 damage on all your attacks without any hit penalty.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Lady~s_Gambit,Dragon

Epinephrine
2008-09-13, 12:53 PM
Have you considered combining Stone Power with Lady's Gambit? It's much more optimal if you have 4 levels of Crusader, but even without Steely Resolve you can get +5 damage on all your attacks without any hit penalty.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Lady~s_Gambit,Dragon

Yes, I think I finally pick it up at level 15, but that's a long way off. COuld get it earlier, but we're trying to keep the power level down a bit, so I don't want to take it too early.


Hmm... I wonder if that works with Mountain Hammer.
I don't think so - page 43 of the ToB reads:


In addition, you cannot combine special attacks such as sunder or bull rush with strikes, even if you have feats that make such special attacks more potent.

Would work with Stone Dragon's Fury though -


If your attack hits a construct or an object, you deal an extra 4d6 points of damage. You can use this strike in conjunction with the sunder special attack (PH 158) and attempt to damage held or carried objects.