Fantasy version of Alpha Centauri

[ArlEammon]

Thay
+1 Research
+2 Support
+2 Police
-2 Efficiency
-1 Nature

Thayan magocracy ensures magic is researched faster than non-wizardly countries.
Iron dictatorship ensures the people obey their masters.
Unnatural necromancy causes nature spirits to congregrate for attacks on Thayan settlements. Large loss of time and resources wasted through the enslaved masses.

Elite Units: (unsure)

Baron
+1 Industry
+2 Efficiency
+1 Research
-1 Nature
-1 Support

Baronian kingdom possesses steam punk which had been discovered through use of primitive airships. Recently other uses have been discovered, though they are in proto-type stage. Baronian engineers work around the clock to discover new tech. Strict regulations gaurantee minimal loss of profit from delays and unexpected disasters. Newly discovered steam punk ensures that high quality good can be produced in mass. Severe industrialization leads to a mass invasion of slyphan hordes. Past wrongs against others in the old world keep the populace suspicous of power grabbers, ensuring a weaker military than normal.

Special Units:
Dragoons
Dark Knights
Airships
Royal Guard

Camelot
+2 Support
+1 Economy
+1 Efficiency
+1 Psych
-2 Research
-1 Industry

Camelot's kingdom typically has a very powerful military, ruled by wise nobles and kings that ensure shrewd business measures, little additional resources lost from disasters and unforeseen circumstances, and fear of the supernatural due to experiences which nearly brought it to its ruin.(Hence the lack of research) People are typically happy here, with a well rounded kingdom and little weakness to exploit. Fear of angering natural spirits keeps the industry well regulated. Too much.

Special Unit:
(White Knights)

Dragon Armies
+2 Support
+2 Morale
+1 Police
-2 Psych
-1 Economy

Dragon Armies consist of a state which takes what it wants, constantly churncing out powerful regular warriors in large amounts. Lack of anything other than a wartime economy, makes anything but small projects difficult. Tyranny keeps the populace in constant resentment of rule.

Special Units - Dragon riders

Prestoria
+2 Economy
+2 Psych
+1 Support
-2 Research
-1 Nature

Prestoria is the Kingdom of Prestor John. Nature spirits attack his kingdom consistently for a reason known only to the Prestorians. Prestoria has an ancient culture with prejudices against technology. However, what tech they have managed to accumulate over the centuries has made them prosperous on the whole. Ancient religion keeps the people pleased with daily living, even if the economy faulters. Finally, an old martial tradition makes it difficult to treat Prestoria as a pushover nation.

Special Unit
Shield Maiden

Lufenia
+2 Research
No penalties
1 Extra Talent in cities

Lufenia traveled throughout the universe continually long before the nations suddenly found themselves trapped in the New Prime. Lufenia has no real penalties to speak of. In fact they are an advanced human like species. Lufenia lacks many characteristics which could get them ahead, but nonetheless possess a strength in technology.

Special Unit:
Automoton(robot)

Themascara
+3 Support
+2 Morale
-2 research
-1 economy

Wonder Woman's nation. Its Grecian Amazon.(duh) Forced out of isolation, Themascara must now compete with nations both in tech, and economically. Unfortunately, There is no scientific tradition in Themascara. They do, however, carry a mighty warrior tradition nearly unmatched among the nations.

Unique Unit -
Mighty Amazon

Ghestalian Empire
+2 Police State
+2 Research
+1 Support
-3 Psych

Ghestal would be as advanced as the highest tech nations if they had tech which went into one area. As it is, the Empire is more like a specialist in every field, instead of having a monopoly on any single tech. The once evil empire still possesses strong evil traits, including little personal liberty. The military is still the strongest part of an ordinary citizen's life.

Special Unit
Magi-tech armor

Numenorean
+1 Industry
+2 Research
-1 Efficiency

Numenoreans claim to their ancient ways. They possess potent magi-tech, with an emphasis on the magic and not the tech. They possess unmatched industrial capability for non-tech obsessed nations, and have dedicated scholars. However, the ancient ways ensure that disasters and constant setbacks cost a fortune for the government and its citizens.

Special Unit-(unsure)

[SurlySeraph]

So is this preliminary stats for a turn-based strategy game using fantasy nations? Could you clarify this a bit?

[ArlEammon]

Ah yes. Alpha Centauri was about humans crashing on a planet and settgn up seven different governments with their own weaknesses and strengths.

This is just an idea for fantasy nations on another similar planet.

[freerangetroll]

For Thayan elite units you could possibly go with. Thayan Slaver, Thayan Knight, Red Wizard, Red Wizard Sky mage (they ride wyverns).

[Mando Knight]

So is this preliminary stats for a turn-based strategy game using fantasy nations? Could you clarify this a bit?

Yes. Alpha Centauri is a spin-off of Sid Meier's Civilization series, and seems to be quite popular here in the Playground.

[Aravail]

I'm not sure if you are aware of Master of Magic, an old abandon ware game that is a fantasy civ platform. In my humble opinion, one of the best and most addictive games ever. If it were remade with nice graphics, but with the system intact, I would lose my job and probably starve to death playing it obsessively.

But I digress...

Take a look at it if you are looking at a fantasy system for AC.

[Kizara]

You going to make this into a Mod?

[Winterwind]

While I am far from as experienced in Alpha Centauri as a good deal of the people posting in the Alpha Centauri thread, Baron sure looks incredibly powerful to me. What is this, the mass production capabilities of the Hive supported by the high-tech of University? :smalleek:

Also, you got a huge amount of +2 Research factions, to the point where this is hardly something special anymore; I think you should mix it up a bit more.

Otherwise, great idea, and looking quite interesting already. :smallsmile:

[strayth]

I miss Alpha Centauri, that game was really good. Had a lot more flavor than your usual Civ/like games.

[Winterwind]

One more thing - the original Alpha Centauri does not support anything like unit types unique to factions. Is this something that got added in the expansion, or what?

[Vizen]

Alpha Centauri...Man I haven't played that game in a while. I thoroughly enjoyed it too.

So which ones on that list you made would closely relate to the factions on the game itself?

[ArlEammon]

So which ones on that list you made would closely relate to the factions on the game itself?

None. And... don't worry.. See I'm just tryign to make the factions as they are most likely to be in the game. I'm not making a mod. :)

[mangosta71]

One more thing - the original Alpha Centauri does not support anything like unit types unique to factions. Is this something that got added in the expansion, or what?

No, unique units were never added to SMAC. Which brings up the question, how does the OP plan to introduce units that the other factions can't copy?

[Vizen]

Hrmm..Well, its looking pretty good to me so far, I'd like to learn more about it when you have the time. (And im not half-dead from decided not to sleep last night) ^_^

[ArlEammon]

No, unique units were never added to SMAC. Which brings up the question, how does the OP plan to introduce units that the other factions can't copy?

AC DOES allow units you can customize in the normal game without cheating.

[Winterwind]

Well, sure you can customize units, but everybody can get those units then... or is there some option that I am not aware of? :smallconfused:


Anyhow, I still think that if you take the factions as you wrote them up there, Baron will wipe the floor with all other factions with ease. I'd consider adding something like +1 drone per 4 population, that would be a start to getting them on a level remotely similar to that of the other factions. It seems to me it wouldn't be entirely out of touch with the fluff, too (hey, it was one of their own (former) Dark Knights who brought their king down! :smalltongue:).

[Vizen]

AC DOES allow units you can customize in the normal game without cheating.

That's true. Once I got the hang of the game that was one of the first things I messed around with. You'd be surprised at what you can come up with. I once made a trooper with Drop Pods, and got the Amphibious thing as well after researching Neural Grafting. It was my weapon against land and coastal bases. =)

Come to think of it, AC was VERY in-depth with its...Well...Basically everything. Have you done much work yet into all the different technologies and whatnot?

Edit: As far as I noticed when you customized your units, it was only your faction that had like that. The computer players only stuck with the defaults. Using what I said before, the computer players could get Drop Troopers just like me, as its the default option, but they couldn't make them amphibious too. Though other human players could mimic you, if they knew what you chose.

[ArlEammon]

That's true. Once I got the hang of the game that was one of the first things I messed around with. You'd be surprised at what you can come up with. I once made a trooper with Drop Pods, and got the Amphibious thing as well after researching Neural Grafting. It was my weapon against land and coastal bases. =)

Come to think of it, AC was VERY in-depth with its...Well...Basically everything. Have you done much work yet into all the different technologies and whatnot?

Edit: As far as I noticed when you customized your units, it was only your faction that had like that. The computer players only stuck with the defaults. Using what I said before, the computer players could get Drop Troopers just like me, as its the default option, but they couldn't make them amphibious too. Though other human players could mimic you, if they knew what you chose.

Well, see, I never used the customization of units. I thought it was unfair. I did, however, manage to expand to a quarter of a hundred bases while everyone else was only on based 7-8. Sister Miriam Godwinson's research penalty isn't that bad even on Talent level.

[Winterwind]

Even though I am starting to get the impression I am being ignored here... :smallfrown:

I just spoke with a friend who is really experienced in Civ/Alpha Centauri-games, and he told me that, while he is uncertain about AC, in Civilisation 2 it was possible to create units unique to factions - all that was necessary was to create own technologies which were not part of the research tree and hence could not be researched, to make them the prerequisites for the units in question, and to give these technologies to the factions which shall have said units. I believe this should be possible in Alpha Centauri as well by manipulating the text files containing all the game informations.

Said friend, by the way, also agrees with me that Baron's disadvantages, as they are, are negligible, while their advantages are massive. Definitely not balanced with the other factions.

[Mando Knight]

Well, see, I never used the customization of units. I thought it was unfair.

It's not unfair... it's taking advantage of the tools Firaxis gave you. Besides, the computer won't auto-design the real killer units, like more advanced Gravships, carriers, psions, etc.

Or you can disable the UN charter by gaining 90% of all votes, then bombard your foes with Singularity Planet Busters, then clean up with gravships or Locust Swarms (Demon Boil Swarms are awesome)...

[mangosta71]

Well, see, I never used the customization of units. I thought it was unfair.

But unit customization is what made SMAC so much better than its Civ predecessors. The AI opponents will build hundreds of aircraft as soon as they discover the tech necessary to do so. Having one unit in each base with the AAA special ability is really handy. Give them non-lethal in addition, and you've got a wonderful garrison unit. The computer doesn't like to put armor on mobile units, which means that your rovers/hovertanks are easy meat if an enemy base has multiple units inside it and you aren't able to capture it in a single turn. Besides, the level 10 armor (antimatter iirc) just looks so cool on them. Units with resonance weapons and armor along with the psi bonus abilities are about the best things possible for exploration. Resonance armor on your colony pods and terraformers likewise makes you far less vulnerable. I'm also a big fan of clean reactors once my military starts growing.

And Winter has a good idea there. Faction-specific starting techs that are tied to later techs that enable the special units to be produced. Of course, capturing a base allows you to steal tech. Besides, unless you come up with some sort of uncopyable combination of chassis, weapon, armor, and special abilities, there's no reason no other faction couldn't build things identical to them. Maybe you'd be better off giving each faction special graphics to reflect the flavor you want them to have.

[ArlEammon]

But unit customization is what made SMAC so much better than its Civ predecessors. The AI opponents will build hundreds of aircraft as soon as they discover the tech necessary to do so. Having one unit in each base with the AAA special ability is really handy. Give them non-lethal in addition, and you've got a wonderful garrison unit. The computer doesn't like to put armor on mobile units, which means that your rovers/hovertanks are easy meat if an enemy base has multiple units inside it and you aren't able to capture it in a single turn. Besides, the level 10 armor (antimatter iirc) just looks so cool on them. Units with resonance weapons and armor along with the psi bonus abilities are about the best things possible for exploration. Resonance armor on your colony pods and terraformers likewise makes you far less vulnerable. I'm also a big fan of clean reactors once my military starts growing.

And Winter has a good idea there. Faction-specific starting techs that are tied to later techs that enable the special units to be produced. Of course, capturing a base allows you to steal tech. Besides, unless you come up with some sort of uncopyable combination of chassis, weapon, armor, and special abilities, there's no reason no other faction couldn't build things identical to them. Maybe you'd be better off giving each faction special graphics to reflect the flavor you want them to have.

There. I cut off a bonus.

[Mando Knight]

Also, some of the heavy Gravships are called Deathspheres, which is just cool... especially when equipped with Singularity cannons... and I think it's Stasis armor?

[Winterwind]

Aye, this looks far better balanced. :smallsmile:

You might consider mixing the factions up a bit more (the Thay and the Ghestalian Empire, for example, have almost the same bonuses), but I believe this should not suffer any game-unhinging imbalances anymore, and should be quite fun to play as it is.

[Ethdred]

Even though I am starting to get the impression I am being ignored here... :smallfrown:

Who said that?


I just spoke with a friend who is really experienced in Civ/Alpha Centauri-games, and he told me that, while he is uncertain about AC, in Civilisation 2 it was possible to create units unique to factions - all that was necessary was to create own technologies which were not part of the research tree and hence could not be researched, to make them the prerequisites for the units in question, and to give these technologies to the factions which shall have said units. I believe this should be possible in Alpha Centauri as well by manipulating the text files containing all the game informations.

I thought unique units didn't come in until Civ 3. Anyway, it's definitely not a possibility for AC because of the way the units are made. In Civ you can just create a unit with certain characteristics, call it something and say that only one race can have it. But in AC all the units are done as a combination of elements, to enable the customisation to work, so any unit you design can be designed by any other race. OK, the AI may not do customisation, so it won't steal your designs, but it's hard to see what the unique powers of the units will be.

Also, I agree that the bonuses and penalties seem a bit samey, and are not very well balanced.

[Winterwind]

I thought unique units didn't come in until Civ 3. Anyway, it's definitely not a possibility for AC because of the way the units are made. In Civ you can just create a unit with certain characteristics, call it something and say that only one race can have it. But in AC all the units are done as a combination of elements, to enable the customisation to work, so any unit you design can be designed by any other race. OK, the AI may not do customisation, so it won't steal your designs, but it's hard to see what the unique powers of the units will be.Yes, but it might be possible to make single technologies unique, by tying them to discoveries handed out to the factions at the start (definitely possible - editing the Alpha Centauri text files allows one to change the requirements of everything as one wishes to) and then (and this is the part I am not entirely sure about) making it impossible to make these discoveries via research if one did not start with them. Since it was possible in Civ 2 though, I suspect it should be possible in AC as well. And since all the names (every single text, in fact) AC uses can be found in these text files, and the default names of units depend on their equipment to some extent, it might even be possible to not only make, for example, Drop Pods unique to Baron, but also make the game label any unit using them as 'Dragoon'.