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View Full Version : Soulbow (CPsi) + Shiba Protector (OA) = Double Wis to dmg?



overduegalaxy
2008-09-13, 02:52 PM
I've got a player who claims that a Soulbow using Wis instead of Dex on ranged damage, and a Shiba Protector's No Thought ability stack (along with Zen Archery and No Thought on attack rolls).

I'm almost positive stuff doesn't double-stack like that, but I want to double-check before I make a judgement call. Here's his post.


9 (BAB) + 8 (Zen Archery-WIS) + 8 (No Thought-WIS) + 1 (Weapon Focus - MindBlade/MindArrow) + 2 enhancement = 28 total for ranged attack bonus.

8 WIS (wis is used for damage bonus NOT dex, it's written under the soulbow entry) + 8 WIS (no thought) + 2 enhancement = 18 ranged damage bonus.

Shiba Protector - Oriental Adventures Page 223, under Phoenix Clan entry:
At first level, it gains No Thought, which reads: "Shiba protectors add their Wisdom modifier, if positive, to their attack and damage rolls".

Starbuck_II
2008-09-13, 03:06 PM
I've got a player who claims that a Soulbow using Wis instead of Dex on ranged damage, and a Shiba Protector's No Thought ability stack (along with Zen Archery and No Thought on attack rolls).

I'm almost positive stuff doesn't double-stack like that, but I want to double-check before I make a judgement call. Here's his post.

I'm pretty sure that the attack rolls stack because they from different sources. Normally, it would be Dex + Wis if had just No Thought, but Zen Archery replaces Dex.

Now damage: No Thought adds Wisdom. Mind arrow page 36 of Complete Psionic does, in fact, say "plus extras damage equal to soulbow's wisdom mod"

So it seems to be Raw that he gets it twice.

BTW, you never add Dex to Damage (in 3.5), only str with a Mighty Composite Bow exist.

Grynning
2008-09-13, 03:20 PM
BTW, you never add Dex to Damage (in 3.5), only str with a Mighty Composite Bow exist.

Which is why they gave the soulbow the wisdom bonus in the first place, to make up for that.

It looks to me like his math is correct though. Let him have it - all Soulbows are good for is shooting stuff, he should be good at it.

Person_Man
2008-09-13, 05:39 PM
I don't have my books in front of me, so I can't render an intelligent opinion without reading the texts of both abilities.

It's 3.0 material though, so you could always disallow it if you want. For example, you don't see a lot of people investing in Iaijutsu Focus cross class, even though by RAW everyone could do it, and many builds could get a big damage bump from certain attacks with it.

Having said that, as long as he doesn't get too far ahead of the other players in terms of power, its hardly game breaking. For example, there are a wide variety of ways to ensure that you hit your enemy 95% of the time. All you need is a decent To-Hit modifier, touch attacks (Flame Blade, Fire Dagger, Wraithstrike, Spectral Weapon, Master Thrower, Pyrokineticist or its variants, etc) and deny your enemy its Dex bonus (like, a million different ways). By itself, anything that ramps up your damage per round really isn't that much of a combo. DMs can easily just add more enemies, or give them additional templates. I often prefer my characters all play optimized characters, because it makes combat far more interesting.

overduegalaxy
2008-09-13, 06:01 PM
I've actually got a Samurai in the same game who thrives off Iaijutsu Focus.

I just wanted to make sure everything was legal, because he's got a BAB of 6/1 at 11th level now (Taking too few levels in classes with a rogue BAB), but his to hit is 25/20.

Grynning
2008-09-13, 07:23 PM
The real question is...how does he have a wisdom of 26 at 11th level? That seems like it would be a little bit outside of WBL and such, but I could be wrong *shrug*

monty
2008-09-13, 07:36 PM
A +6 item is a little over half of level 11 WBL (66k), so not too unreasonable, depending on the economy of the setting.

overduegalaxy
2008-09-13, 08:03 PM
I hand out treasure like candy.

Person_Man
2008-09-14, 11:51 AM
I hand out treasure like candy.

Well, there's your problem. Monty Haul campaigns are notoriously fun for a few sessions, before they quickly descend into brokenness as some players fully exploit their magic items and others don't. It basically multiplies the character optimization problem (consider a party with an optimized wizard and an unoptimized samurai) by two.

You may wish to force your players into the classic reboot - have them captured, put in prison, enemy sells all of their magic items off, then PCs can break out and defeat their captors, but never recover their magic items, just a huge pile of gp that adds up to the standard wealth by level.

FMArthur
2008-09-14, 12:30 PM
You may wish to force your players into the classic reboot - have them captured, put in prison, enemy sells all of their magic items off, then PCs can break out and defeat their captors, but never recover their magic items, just a huge pile of gp that adds up to the standard wealth by level.

Or crush their spirits with Disjunction.

overduegalaxy
2008-09-14, 03:55 PM
Well, there's your problem. Monty Haul campaigns are notoriously fun for a few sessions, before they quickly descend into brokenness as some players fully exploit their magic items and others don't. It basically multiplies the character optimization problem (consider a party with an optimized wizard and an unoptimized samurai) by two.

You may wish to force your players into the classic reboot - have them captured, put in prison, enemy sells all of their magic items off, then PCs can break out and defeat their captors, but never recover their magic items, just a huge pile of gp that adds up to the standard wealth by level.

This campaign has been going for almost two and a half years now, from level 4 to the current general party level of 11. It's not really a problem.

I work with my players to re-balance periodically (our custom Samurai build barely resembles the class's original build), I can throw tougher monsters at them than I normally could (especially since there's 8 PCs), and every once in a while, they'll blow a lot of money on a castle or a blimp or something, as required for where they want to take the campaign next.