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EndlessWrath
2008-09-13, 08:00 PM
So I've never learned too much about scouts. I know now that the scouts skirmish will not stack.

say if I moved 10 ft... Added my +3d6 dmg or so... and used all 4 attacks upon 1 target...say a dragon. That i would not use 4 1d8 arrows + 4(3d6) skirmishes.

My question is not that.

My question is what is the outcome if you skirmish and attack multiple targets? do you skirmish each target? can you skirmish each target (move 10 ft / target?) or do you only apply the skirmish to target 1?

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question 2: Can a magic weapon recieve multiple stacked bonuses? If you make it a flaming +1 bow.. can it be a +2 double flaming bow? with added +2d6 instead of +1d6?
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please playgrounders help enlighten me.

Grynning
2008-09-13, 08:04 PM
My question is what is the outcome if you skirmish and attack multiple targets? do you skirmish each target? can you skirmish each target (move 10 ft / target?) or do you only apply the skirmish to target 1?

Skirmish applies to ALL attacks you make in the turn AFTER you have moved at least 10 feet, regardless of who or what you target. So if your skirmish bonus is +3d6, and you move, say, 10 feet, then you can add the dice to any attacks you may make for the rest of the turn. If you attack before you move, you will not get the skirmish bonus because you have not yet triggered it. But I'm pretty sure if you attack during the move (with Shot on the Run or something similar), as long as the total movement is 10 feet or more you will get the bonus, since the attack and the move are essentially happening at the same time, you're just picking where you were when you made the shot.



question 2: Can a magic weapon recieve multiple stacked bonuses? If you make it a flaming +1 bow.. can it be a +2 double flaming bow? with added +2d6 instead of +1d6?


No. You can not have a double flaming bow. However, you can have a +1 Flaming, Frost, Shocking bow and add 1d6 of each different energy type to each attack (total 3d6+1 extra damage per shot).

Epinephrine
2008-09-13, 08:04 PM
Scouts can apply skirmish to multiple attacks on a single foe...

Spiryt
2008-09-13, 08:06 PM
Are those 4 attack in one round? If so, how? Scout has 3/4 BAB, as far as I know... :smallconfused:

And what are those attack? Many shot? Normal shooting?

You're a bit unclear.



question 2: Can a magic weapon recieve multiple stacked bonuses? If you make it a flaming +1 bow.. can it be a +2 double flaming bow? with added +2d6 instead of +1d6?

Theoritically possible, you make flammier bow :smallwink:, but as far as I know it's not possible.

Dode
2008-09-13, 08:21 PM
1) How exactly do you move 10ft and still make a full attack?
2) How do you get 4 attacks w/ a scout?

Koalita
2008-09-13, 08:22 PM
There are tons of ways to get 4+ attacks with a full attacking scout. Haste, 1/1BAB levels, manyshot, TWF, etc...

The only time you cannot expect the extra damage to be applied more than once is when using rapid shot kind of attacks. Volleys or something like that.

So as to Q1, as it's been already said, they can apply skirmish damage to more than 1 target. If they can move and attack to more than one target, of course.

Q2: You can house rule it if you wish, but according to the rules, no, there are no double flaming items. And there's another mod, explosive flaming or something like that, that does extra damage on a critical. But that's a +3 or +4 mod, which is usually not worth it.
Maybe the idea of double flaming came from NWN? ^^U

Douglas
2008-09-13, 08:29 PM
It is not normally possible to both move 10' and full attack in the same round. If you use any of the various ways around this, however, skirmish damage does apply to each and every attack made against a target within 30' that is not immune to it, provided the attack happens after the movement.

If you are using Manyshot to get sort-of multiple attacks, the feat specifically restricts precision damage to just one shot. Greater Manyshot explicitly removes this restriction, however.

Spiryt
2008-09-13, 08:33 PM
There are tons of ways to get 4+ attacks with a full attacking scout. Haste, 1/1BAB levels, manyshot, TWF, etc...



Yeah, but he is talking about bow, and as far as I know Manyshot couldn't be used to fire 4 arrows before Epic as a Scout. And I assume he is talking about pure scout. If not, then it's okay I guess.

Haste additional attack requires full action, so won't work with Skirmish.

olentu
2008-09-13, 08:40 PM
Haste additional attack requires full action, so won't work with Skirmish.

It is just more difficult to get it to work with skirmish. Off the top of my head possible methods that will will allow a full attack with skirmish are the travel devotion feat, a sparring dummy of the master, those gliding boots, a dc 40 tumble check, and that one stance in the tome of battle.

Eldariel
2008-09-13, 08:41 PM
As said before, Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) gets around that restriction. I'm hoping that's what is being used here, because otherwise rules are most likely being misunderstood. Even then though, the penalties more than make up for the extra arrows, so a Scout's life is never easy (nor a Swift Hunter's for that matter - full BAB still doesn't remove the penalties).

Eldmor
2008-09-13, 08:43 PM
You could always use the Eberron Roller-Skates for cheesiness. I don't have a link, but it's a foot-slot magical item that lets you 10' step on smooth surfaces. Situational, overpowered, and sort-of cool looking.

Spiryt
2008-09-13, 08:44 PM
As said before, Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot) gets around that restriction. I'm hoping that's what is being used here, because otherwise rules are most likely being misunderstood. Even then though, the penalties more than make up for the extra arrows, so a Scout's life is never easy (nor a Swift Hunter's for that matter - full BAB still doesn't remove the penalties).

This Greater manyshot is anyway solid feat, at least.

And if he has Swift Hunter, then he probably indeed can do those 4 attacks, if he's >16 level.

I still don't see how it's so overpowered.

Eldariel
2008-09-13, 08:48 PM
This manyshot is anyway solid feat, at least.

Manyshot is a fine feat. It's not a feat a Scout wants beyond prerequisites though. The best Manyshot-users are archers who work off base damage. Psionic Archery really lends itself best to it as the one-attack roll-thing is very much of a benefit with Fell Shot. Arcane Archery with True Strike does qualify too though. But not Scouts.


And if he has Swift Hunter, then he probably indeed can do those 4 attacks, if he's >16 level.

I still don't see how it's so overpowered.

It isn't. Which is why we're waiting for a clarification.

Dode
2008-09-13, 08:55 PM
There are tons of ways to get 4+ attacks with a full attacking scout.
I never said there weren't. I just want specifics on how this guy is getting 4 attacks with a Scout at level <13 at and full attacking while moving at least 10 ft.

Spiryt
2008-09-13, 09:05 PM
Manyshot is a fine feat. It's not a feat a Scout wants beyond prerequisites though. The best Manyshot-users are archers who work off base damage. Psionic Archery really lends itself best to it as the one-attack roll-thing is very much of a benefit with Fell Shot. Arcane Archery with True Strike does qualify too though. But not Scouts.



Crap, I mean Greater Manyshot - it improves normal Manyshot in so many aspects.

Personally I haven't really seen the sense of Manyshot - it's rather dumb (Orlando Bloom doing it leaves scars :smallwink:) and the whole point of archery is attacking from range, not from 9 meters, at least for me. Also in D&D - as there is no noncheesy way for archer to outdamage meleer (dunno about those psionic build of youm though), he should exploit range of his weapon, not attack from the distance that even slowest characters can anyway cover with one charge (so effectively a melee range)

Of course, Skirmish doesn't work from far away...

jcsw
2008-09-13, 09:08 PM
I never said there weren't. I just want specifics on how this guy is getting 4 attacks with a Scout at level <13 at and full attacking while moving at least 10 ft.

It's not that hard.
Lets say you have 2 iterative attacks from BAB.
Rapidshot brings it up to 3.
Now all you need is haste.
Now that you have 4 attacks a round... Travel Devotion from complete champion allows you, for one minute a day, to move as a swift action.

Eldariel
2008-09-13, 09:11 PM
Crap, I mean Greater Manyshot - it improves normal Manyshot in so many aspects.

Personally I haven't really seen the sense of Manyshot - it's rather dumb (Orlando Bloom doing it leaves scars :smallwink:) and the whole point of archery is attacking from range, not from 9 meters, at least for me. Also in D&D - as there is no noncheesy way for archer to outdamage meleer (dunno about those psionic build of youm though), he should exploit range of his weapon, not attack from the distance that even slowest characters can anyway cover with one charge (so effectively a melee range)

Meh, with Flyby Attack (what Spring Attack should've been...), 30' range is plenty. Anyways, Manyshot is a feat that takes work to use, but is handy if you do. Stuff like Quickened True Strike and Fell Shot (makes one attack a touch attack) synergizes great with Manyshot on a base-damage build (such as a Cleric Archer, an Arcane Archer (the archetype, not the class), a Psionic Archer or even a Martial Archer - of course, all that assumes that you've got enough Dex for it; out of those, only Martial Archer is usually Dex-based). Even the skilltrick Spot the Weak Point does help a lot.

But yea, mostly Manyshot is useful over Greater Manyshot when you utilize stuff that only works for a single attack roll, allowing that single attack roll to do so much more damage. Of course, it's also used by characters without Greater Manyshot when using a surprise round - non-Charger melee'ers still fall behind there (Charge unfortunately gets Pounce, can be used as a Standard Action when limited to one, and therefore nullifies the potential advantage).


Of course, Skirmish doesn't work from far away...

One of the biggest Scout-problems really - they want to be ranged, but they need to be near. Ranged Skirmisher helps a bit, but still requires a worthless feat and doesn't actually increase Manyshot distance (works for Travel Devotion-builds though) without a houserule.

Dode
2008-09-13, 09:22 PM
It's not that hard...
"How are you doing X?"
"It's totally possible to do X, you can go about it with methods 1, or 2 or 3 or 4 to do it!"
"Yeah that's great, never said it wasn't possible to do X. I just want to know how he's doing it"
"It's not that hard to do X! you can go about it with methods..."

Frosty
2008-09-13, 09:24 PM
Instead of Greate rManyshot, you could also go the route of dipping one level into Cleric (getting some nice domain powers in the process), and then taking Travel Devotion. The TD feat lets you move as a Swift action instead of a Move action for 1 minute a day. Sacrificing Turn attempts gives you more uses. Feel free to Full-attack to your heart's content.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-13, 10:02 PM
I never said there weren't. I just want specifics on how this guy is getting 4 attacks with a Scout at level <13 at and full attacking while moving at least 10 ft.

Agreed. Considering the context implied by the OP, I'd say here are the problems:

You cannot make a full attack if you made a move action. If the scout moves 10 feet with a move action, he's limited to a standard action, which is one attack. That one attack gets skirmish damage. If he uses Manyshot, the skirmish damage only applies to one arrow.

If you do have a way to move 10+ feet and make a full attack (rather than use Manyshot), then each attack will get skirmish damage. You would not need to "move 10 feet per target" or anything like that. If you have some way to move 10 feet and make multiple attacks, each attack benefits from skirmish.

The critical question here, EndlessWrath, is: how is the Scout moving 10+ feet and making 2+ attacks?

That's not remotely overpowered, though, considering that sneak attack damage is higher and is much more easily applied. A TWFing rogue making 4+ attacks deals sneak attack damage on all of them, assuming the opponents can be sneak attacked. (Which is why greater invisibility on a rogue is nice.)

You can't make a weapon "double-flaming." You can, however, make a flaming frost weapon. (A DM might rule, though, that only one of these elemental qualities can be activated at a time. I don't see any reason to; I'd rather take a holy weapon than a flaming frost weapon, personally, and they cost the same.)

Epinephrine
2008-09-14, 06:45 AM
I too wonder if they know that you can't move and make a full attack, normally.

But don't forget all the ways of moving 10+ feat and making a full attack that are useable a number of times/day, or per encounter - there are items in the MIC, as well as many ways from the Tome of Battle.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-14, 07:23 AM
But don't forget all the ways of moving 10+ feat and making a full attack that are useable a number of times/day, or per encounter - there are items in the MIC, as well as many ways from the Tome of Battle.

Yes, this was mentioned about a dozen times already, and acknowledged by those who said it's probably the issue here.

AstralFire
2008-09-14, 07:41 AM
On the flaming - it IS possible to have a flaming, shocking, etc weapon, but not double flaming or flaming + flaming burst.

Epinephrine
2008-09-14, 08:36 AM
Yes, this was mentioned about a dozen times already, and acknowledged by those who said it's probably the issue here.

Actually, there was only one mention of ToB (which I'll admit I missed), and it was about a stance - my point was that there are many (other) ways within that book (boosts, as well as the stance), and the many items in the MIC, none of which I can see mentioned anywhere.

I don't see a SINGLE magic item from the MIC in this list. And the post prior to mine (your post, in fact), asked


The critical question here, EndlessWrath, is: how is the Scout moving 10+ feet and making 2+ attacks?

So I thought I'd add a few more ways. Chronocharms, belt of battle, skirmisher boots...

If you can fly, it's actually even easier. Simply take a 5 foot step with a downward component; since you move an additional 5 feet for free as a result of this, you move 10 feet on a 5 foot step.

I was simply trying to provide a few more examples that don't involve completely obscure magic items (sparring dummy of the master, eberron roller skates), bizarre rules (10' step on a DC40 tumble from OA, a 3.0 source?) or dipping into a class that likely doesn't fit the character (cleric, then a feat for travel devotion, which is cheese anyway?).

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-14, 09:57 AM
Dode already said this, but since everything apparently needs to be repeated five times: the fact that there are various ways to accomplish it does not, in any way, answer the question "How is this specific scout accomplishing it, EndlessWrath?"

Dode
2008-09-14, 10:47 AM
{Scrubbed}

Starbuck_II
2008-09-14, 11:23 AM
If you can fly, it's actually even easier. Simply take a 5 foot step with a downward component; since you move an additional 5 feet for free as a result of this, you move 10 feet on a 5 foot step.


That won't work. All movement must be by own power this was why Horse riding isn't allowed due to errata.
If falling 5 feet, that isn't you but gravity (un ess I'm reading what you are saying wrong).

Bob the Urgh
2008-09-14, 11:36 AM
You can have a double flaming weapon, get a double weapon and enchant each end with flaming.

hotel_papa
2008-09-14, 11:41 AM
"How are you doing X?"
"It's totally possible to do X, you can go about it with methods 1, or 2 or 3 or 4 to do it!"
"Yeah that's great, never said it wasn't possible to do X. I just want to know how he's doing it"
"It's not that hard to do X! you can go about it with methods..."

Metahumor for the win!!!

HP

Starsinger
2008-09-14, 12:28 PM
Totally unrelated to anything, but I wanted to share, for some reason I read this as "Questions caused by an overpowered boyscout" and I was highly amused.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-09-14, 12:33 PM
Totally unrelated to anything, but I wanted to share, for some reason I read this as "Questions caused by an overpowered boyscout" and I was highly amused.

His "Use Rope" modifier is obscene! And if you can't imagine what an Epic Use Rope check can do... well, I'm not going to tell you :smalltongue:

Epinephrine
2008-09-15, 02:28 PM
That won't work. All movement must be by own power this was why Horse riding isn't allowed due to errata.
If falling 5 feet, that isn't you but gravity (un ess I'm reading what you are saying wrong).


But you aren't falling - just like moving 5 feet upwards doesn't trigger skirmish (because although you pay 10 feet of movement, you only moved 5), the reverse makes sense - you aren't falling, you are using your own movement rate to move - it's just movement at a discount, getting 10 feet of movement per 5 feet spent.

I'm not sure what an official ruling would be, but it's not falling speed (which I agree wouldn't count, as it's not your movement) nor horseback(which again, isn't your movement).

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-15, 02:56 PM
How does moving 5 feet diagonally and down count as moving 10 feet? At best, that's something like the [square root of 50] feet, which falls well short of 10 feet (which would be the [square root of 100] feet).

Moving 5 feet diagonally on a level plane only counts as moving 5 feet, too - you don't get to count it as if you had moved one to the side and then one forward.

Epinephrine
2008-09-15, 05:23 PM
How does moving 5 feet diagonally and down count as moving 10 feet? At best, that's something like the [square root of 50] feet, which falls well short of 10 feet (which would be the [square root of 100] feet).

It doesn't. Essentially, just as moving upwards costs double move, moving downward costs a half move - you double your movement rate when moving downward. So, assuming you have the maneuverability to stay aloft, you could move downward 10 feet on a 5 foot step.


Moving 5 feet diagonally on a level plane only counts as moving 5 feet, too - you don't get to count it as if you had moved one to the side and then one forward.

Of course. That's not what I was suggesting.



Down Speed

A flying creature can fly down at twice its normal flying speed.

And the table says "double". While not canon, the Wizrads website ran a "Rules of the Game" column, in which movement was discussed. In this colmun, the author described how they recommend calculating flight movment in 3D. This article suggests:



Down Speed:Any flying creature can fly down at twice its normal flying speed. An easy way to track diving movement is to allow it 5 feet of bonus movement for every 5 feet it descends, to a maximum of twice its normal flying speed. The creature can use the extra movement for any kind flying movement it normally could perform, except for hovering.
Downward movement in a stall or freefall does not increase a creature's speed. Instead, the creature falls straight down at a fixed rate.

This suggests that one can take a 5 foot step that incurs a 5 foot descent, and then, using the 5 feet of extra movement this generates, achieve 10 feet of movement having taken only a 5 foot step.

Paul H
2008-09-15, 05:33 PM
Hi

Played with a Scout before. She used Anklets of Transocation to move before she made her multiple (hasted) attacks. She had a Corrosive Wpn, the Bard added Sonic Wpn, I (Clr/Warmage/Mystic Theurge) added Fire Arrows, so many arrows doing mega damage.

Cheers
Paul H

KevLar
2008-09-15, 05:48 PM
Played with a Scout before. She used Anklets of Transocation to move before she made her multiple (hasted) attacks.
Umm.. I think that's a stretch. Anklets of Translocation only work 2/day IIRC (which means it would work for 2 rounds per 4 encounters) and you don't exactly move, you teleport. I'm not sure if it's acceptable by RAW, but logically skirmish damage applies when you run and gain momentum, not when you poof! out of existence and promptly materialize 10 ft farther.

Personally, I wouldn't accept it.

Neon Knight
2008-09-15, 06:07 PM
Umm.. I think that's a stretch. Anklets of Translocation only work 2/day IIRC (which means it would work for 2 rounds per 4 encounters) and you don't exactly move, you teleport. I'm not sure if it's acceptable by RAW, but logically skirmish damage applies when you run and gain momentum, not when you poof! out of existence and promptly materialize 10 ft farther.

Personally, I wouldn't accept it.

I thought that skirmish damage had nothing to do with momentum, and everything to do with your opponent being unable to shift his defenses to counter your new angle of attack. That's why skirmish damage is precision damage.

Of course, its been a while since I read the description. I might be misremembering/making it up.

Frosty
2008-09-15, 06:23 PM
Umm.. I think that's a stretch. Anklets of Translocation only work 2/day IIRC (which means it would work for 2 rounds per 4 encounters) and you don't exactly move, you teleport. I'm not sure if it's acceptable by RAW, but logically skirmish damage applies when you run and gain momentum, not when you poof! out of existence and promptly materialize 10 ft farther.

Personally, I wouldn't accept it.


If so, then why can't you do Skirmish while Mounted? That's a totally stupid rule imo.

Wolfpack
2008-09-15, 06:45 PM
Skirmish is change of attack, not momentum, so Anklets work just fine.

And Anklets are so cheap you can easily buy 4 sets, then you get two full attacks with skirmish per fight. Which honestly, depending on your level, optimization, ect, should be more then enough.

KevLar
2008-09-15, 07:47 PM
Well, I asked over at the "Q&A" thread, and I was informed that "Teleporting is relocating without moving, so that would require an especially generous DM." I was also informed that Errata for Complete Adventurer have stated that you cannot qualify for skirmish damage while mounted, ah, I had missed that. I'm not sure if it was for crunch reasons (would skirmish damage be too much then?) or for fluff reasons (which is debatable, since scouts may be stealthy types, but they are also as close as it gets to actual skirmishers -and I mean guerilla fighters- and many of those were mounted). But whatever.

Momentum was simply my interpretation, please don't fret about it. :smallsmile: Still, if it was up to me, I wouldn't allow teleporting to do skirmish damage. But I'd be perfectly happy with a DM who did! :)

tyckspoon
2008-09-15, 08:10 PM
If so, then why can't you do Skirmish while Mounted? That's a totally stupid rule imo.

Probably for the same reason you can't have your mount use Jump to activate Leap Attack for you- the mount rules are really kind of kludged in and don't integrate very well with a combat system that is fundamentally built on small-unit foot skirmishers. Or you could believe that it's a deliberate balancing decision, since widespread use of mounts would make it quite easy to get a Skirmishing full-attack... but I'm pretty sure the actual reason is that almost nobody at WotC thinks about mounts in the game unless they're writing a mount-based PrC.

Frosty
2008-09-15, 09:03 PM
Probably for the same reason you can't have your mount use Jump to activate Leap Attack for you- the mount rules are really kind of kludged in and don't integrate very well with a combat system that is fundamentally built on small-unit foot skirmishers. Or you could believe that it's a deliberate balancing decision, since widespread use of mounts would make it quite easy to get a Skirmishing full-attack... but I'm pretty sure the actual reason is that almost nobody at WotC thinks about mounts in the game unless they're writing a mount-based PrC.

Every Scout worth his salt can full-attack anyways. Greater Manyshot or Pounce or Travel Devotion can already let you full-attack. Alllowing mounts won't overpower the Scout in any way shape or form. And I let the mount use Leap Attack, if the mount has the feat. The rider will benefit from it.

Wolfpack
2008-09-15, 10:49 PM
Well, I asked over at the "Q&A" thread, and I was informed that "Teleporting is relocating without moving, so that would require an especially generous DM."

Well whoever said that is wrong. moving is moving. There is no in game term for relocating, only moving.

KevLar
2008-09-16, 07:56 AM
Well, whoever said that is entitled to his own opinion, just like you. :)

There is a game term for relocating, it's called "teleporting" and it's described as "being instantly transported". Not "moving". IMO, they are different things. But I understand it's a gray area - which is why I'd prefer something along the lines "I believe it means this" instead of "whoever says otherwise is wrong". Thank you. :smallsmile:

Sinfire Titan
2008-09-16, 07:59 AM
1) How exactly do you move 10ft and still make a full attack?
2) How do you get 4 attacks w/ a scout?

1: Manyshot
2: Improved/Greater Manyshot.

That, or Travel Devotion+Rapid Shot, which is sub-par compared to TWFing+Travel Devotion.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-16, 08:04 AM
1: Manyshot
2: Improved/Greater Manyshot.

That, or Travel Devotion+Rapid Shot, which is sub-par compared to TWFing+Travel Devotion.
"How are you doing X?"
"It's totally possible to do X, you can go about it with methods 1, or 2 or 3 or 4 to do it!"
"Yeah that's great, never said it wasn't possible to do X. I just want to know how he's doing it"
"It's not that hard to do X! you can go about it with methods...":smallannoyed:teh wordiness

jcsw
2008-09-16, 08:15 AM
:smallannoyed:teh wordiness

You should just accept that no one actually intends to answer your/that question and join in the fun.

---

Actually the in-game term is "Transported".

---

5ft steps count as movement, and it has a speed, therefore it is doubled if you move downwards, therefore it can count as moving 10 feet.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-16, 08:25 AM
There's dozens of ways to move+full attack(my favorite being Eternal Wands of Knight's Move), and dozens of ways to boost a Scout to 4+ attacks on a full attack, but until we know which of those methods he's using, we can't make a decision.

Wolfpack
2008-09-16, 09:27 AM
:smallannoyed:teh wordiness

It's not our fault the origional poster disappeared. Obviously we can't read his mind, and tell you which one. All we can do is point out the 500 or so ways it could be done.

Eldariel
2008-09-16, 09:38 AM
How about we either wait for him to reply or let this thread die? As it stands, it serves no purpose as no information is shared.

paddyfool
2008-09-16, 10:29 AM
I fully acknowledge that no-one is answering the original question, but I'd like to suggest a small game here: 101 ways to achieve 10' movement and 4 shots with a scout. Kudos for 1) The build achievable earliest; 2) The build achieveable earliest using nothing but the SRD. The build should not require help from other party members, but items can be bought using standard gold/level. Bring on more suggestions!

Wolfpack
2008-09-16, 11:25 AM
I fully acknowledge that no-one is answering the original question, but I'd like to suggest a small game here: 101 ways to achieve 10' movement and 4 shots with a scout. Kudos for 1) The build achievable earliest; 2) The build achieveable earliest using nothing but the SRD. The build should not require help from other party members, but items can be bought using standard gold/level. Bring on more suggestions!

Well since 2) is physically impossible, I'm betting most people go for 1).

Eldariel
2008-09-16, 12:03 PM
2) would be Greater Manyshot given that Scout is allowed.

Wolfpack
2008-09-16, 12:14 PM
2) would be Greater Manyshot given that Scout is allowed.

Which isn't a given.

Curmudgeon
2008-09-16, 12:29 PM
101 ways to achieve 10' movement and 4 shots with a scout. Kudos for 1) The build achievable earliest; 2) The build achieveable earliest using nothing but the SRD.
2) Scout 8 has BAB +6, affording 2 shots per full attack. Add Rapid Shot and Haste to get 4 shots with a full attack. Have somebody cast Fly on you. Drop 5' ("not an action"), which gets doubled to 10' for downward flight. If you don't want to rely on others for the spells, get Boots of Speed (for Haste) and Cloak of the Bat or similar for flight.

1) As above, except Scout 3/Ranger 4 with Swift Hunter.

Person_Man
2008-09-16, 12:47 PM
Ways to qualify for Skirmish and get a full attack that I know of, with linky goodness.

Ways to get Pounce (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=5305146#post5305146)
Multi-Pounce (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-444438)
Magic Rollerskates (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cw/20061120a)
Greater Manyshot (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicFeats.html#greater-manyshot)
Evasive Reflexes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060706a) + AoO (reach weapon, Karmic Strike, Hold the Line, etc)
Hustle (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicPowersGtoP.html#hustle)
Psicrown of the Evader (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Psicrown_of_the_Evader)
Leadership (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/featsAll.html#leadership): Get Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b) and/or White Raven Tactics (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) using followers.
Press the Advantage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) (White Raven maneuver)
Elocator (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicElocater.html)


Unconventional methods:

DC 40 Tumble Check: Allows you to take a 10 ft. step. From Oriental Adventures (3.0 material). Actually not that hard to do with Skill Focus (Tumble), 1 level of Exemplar, 1 level of Marshal, a few magic items, and/or an Item Familiar.

Sparring Dummy of the Master: Arms and Equipment Guide. Permanent 10 ft steps. But it requires you take Monk levels, and its 3.0 material.

Grapple with 10 feet of reach: Grappling Moves you into enemy's square. And you can make one Grapple check for each attack you have (even once you're Grappled, as clarified by the Rules Compendium). So you can just spend your first attack/Grapple check to Move you and your enemy, then continue to attack/Grapple. Scorpion's Grasp (Sandstorm) lets you do this with any weapon. Or you can use Enlarge Person, Expansion, Inhuman Reach, Deformity (Tall), or a Shifter Warshaper to improve your natural reach.

Buy an trained dog, or get a familiar or animal companion. Have them Grapple you each turn. You can choose to automatically fail an opposed check. If it has three attacks, it can Grapple you, Move both of you, and then release the Grapple.

Buy an trained dog, or get a familiar or animal companion. Have it Bull Rush you each turn. Again, you can choose to automatically fail an opposed check.

Falling is a free action. A Scout with any method of flight (or something that Grapples you and carries you upward) and a Ring of Feather Falling (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ring_of_feather_falling) could qualify for Skirmish every other round without having to take any action.

Dervish: I hate this class for a variety of reasons. But it works.

Anywho, Skirmish is by far one of the poorest methods of adding bonus damage to a character. Worse then Sudden Strike. Worse then Sneak Attack. Worse the Power Attack feats. Worse then spells or psionics. Scouts are fun characters, and I love them. But playing a Scout because it has Skirmish is a poor choice from an optimization point of view.

Curmudgeon
2008-09-16, 01:12 PM
You can choose to automatically fail an opposed check. No, you can't; that's not allowed by the D&D RAW.