Why is Haley second-in-command anyway?

[Lord Seth]

Sort of a random question, but Haley is referred to as second-in-command of the Order of the Stick. I have to ask...why? I'd think Durkon would be the obvious choice, as Roy has known him for FAR longer than the other characters (as was shown in "On the Origin of PCs"). So...why is Haley the second-in-command?

[snoopy13a]

Sort of a random question, but Haley is referred to as second-in-command of the Order of the Stick. I have to ask...why? I'd think Durkon would be the obvious choice, as Roy has known him for FAR longer than the other characters (as was shown in "On the Origin of PCs"). So...why is Haley the second-in-command?



Looking at the other members, V probably has no interest, no one trusts Belkar and Elan isn't smart or wise enough. So it has to be either Durkon or Haley. My guess is that Durkon didn't want to be second-in-command.

On second thought, V is good friends with Haley and she is in Belkar's "lust" category (instead of "hate" category) so perhaps she is second-in-command because she would do a better job handling those two than Durkon.

[DreadSpoon]

On the Origin of PCs clearly explains why. Just read it again. If you don't own it, quit being a freeloader and buy it; then read it.

[David Argall]

However, the basic answer is because she wanted to be.

[Mr. Bean]

Knowing a person for a longer amount of time than another is not a prerequisite for the former person to be second-in-command instead of the latter.

[DBear]

Haley fits best in the Lancer (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLancer) role of the Five Man Band (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand). Durkon wouldn't provide a good contrast to Roy as Haley would.

[Kaytara]

My impression is that
a) she used it as an excuse to get higher wages.

b) and, at that point, it wasn't the Order yet. It was Roy & Durkon + those four people they'd hired. As the smart AND charismatic one, Haley was the best choice to act as the voice of the people, aka the hirelings.

[Laurentio II]

On the Origin of PCs clearly explains why. Just read it again. If you don't own it, quit being a freeloader and buy it; then read it.
Try ordering it in Italy, and you'll gain a reason to be more polite to people. Thanks for nothing.
Not read on the actual book but on forum, Haley threatened Roy to rob the whole party during a sleep break if not nominated second in command.

[Warren Dew]

I don't think people are obligated to buy the print versions just because they read the web comic. It's a nice thing to do, but it's not even morally mandatory.

Origin of PCs Haley claims the position of second in command based on an agreement with the rest of the party - which seems to mean Belkar, Vaarsuvius, and Elan, but possibly not Durkon - which agreement she says she got by agreeing not to loot them in the middle of the night. Mostly it seems to be a ruse to claim a bigger share of the treasure.

Roy doesn't specifically agree to this, but does seem to acquiesce in it.

[Euron]

No, but try being an artist, and you'll know how much your fan's loyalty means to you, both financially and emotionally.

[LuisDantas]

That's hardly justification for calling someone a "freeloader" when he is simply using the resources the artist chose to make available, though.

[Euron]

Yes, it is a rude assumption to make, but seriously; the book itself is, what, 14$ USD? Shipping and handling is obviously an exception, but you can request any hobby/comic/DND shop to order it in for you for no extra cost.

That rant aside, yeah, Haley was planning to steal from them in their sleep. Blackmail. Woot.

[NerfTW]

No, but try being an artist, and you'll know how much your fan's loyalty means to you, both financially and emotionally.

And Rich goes out of his way not to insist people buy the book. There's no "don't post anything from the books" rule on the forums. All relevent information from the books is included in the online strips.

And ANY artist that puts work up on the web for free, and thinks his readers OWE him anything is a pompous ass. It doesn't work the other way either. You give something out for free, it's for free. Nobody owes anyone anything. He makes the books and products so that people who do want to support him can, and get something back in return.

You'll notice there's no ads on this site, there's no donation tab (which he's stated he doesn't like), and he has never told anyone that they're freeloaders for not buying the books.

[Euron]

Did I say or imply anything differently?


All relevent information from the books is included in the online strips.

Yeah, because Redcloak is simply a spineless minion with no ulterior motives, amirite?

[*Templar*]

Anyway, getting back on-topic, it's true that Durkon would seem the logical choice for second in command because of his level-headedness (tree paranoia excepted...), but he doesn't really have much in the way of leadership skills in my opinion. He's good for the occasional pep talk (or verbal-kick-in-the-pants talk), but he seems to have a fairly passive personality overall. Probably in part due to his natural dwarfish (dwarven?) stoicism. Durkon is pretty much ideally suited to the role in the party he actually fills: dependable backstop/support guy.

[Trixie]

Yes, it is a rude assumption to make, but seriously; the book itself is, what, 14$ USD? Shipping and handling is obviously an exception, but you can request any hobby/comic/DND shop to order it in for you for no extra cost.

No extra cost? Have you ever heard of shipping expenseses?

Try shipping that to Europe - you'll pay 2-3x book's price for that :smallsigh:

[Lord Seth]

Well I guess I must've missed that part in the book. Drat.

I got the book from the library, for the record. I'm not a freeloader; I bought that book with my tax money!

[factotum]

Anyway, getting back on-topic, it's true that Durkon would seem the logical choice for second in command because of his level-headedness (tree paranoia excepted...), but he doesn't really have much in the way of leadership skills in my opinion.

Durkon has rubbish Charisma--he says as much in strip #200 when they're fighting Miko. He can therefore be as level-headed as he likes, but he'll struggle to persuade anyone that what he's suggesting is the right thing to do. Elan could persuade people easily, but his suggestions are so obviously boneheaded they won't listen to them anyway. The only member of the Order (after Roy) with halfway sensible ideas AND the Charisma to persuade people to follow them is Haley.

[Linkavitch]

Try ordering it in Italy, and you'll gain a reason to be more polite to people. Thanks for nothing.
Not read on the actual book but on forum, Haley threatened Roy to rob the whole party during a sleep break if not nominated second in command.

Ahh, your Spoiler explains it all.

[Kurald Galain]

Haley claims the position of second in command based on
an agreement with the rest of the party - which seems to mean Belkar, Vaarsuvius, and Elan, but possibly not Durkon - which agreement she says she got by agreeing not to loot them in the middle of the night.

Also, it's quite possible that
Haley lied about this - telling Roy that the others agreed to her being Second, and then telling the others that Roy told her to. This certainly fits within her character earlier in the strip.

[UnChosenOne]

Yes, it is a rude assumption to make, but seriously; the book itself is, what, 14$ USD? Shipping and handling is obviously an exception, but you can request any hobby/comic/DND shop to order it in for you for no extra cost.



No extra cost? Have you ever heard of shipping expenseses?

Try shipping that to Europe - you'll pay 2-3x book's price for that :smallsigh:
Hell and thing's get better when you live in east or north from Germany.
If i would try get the prequel book's it would easily took 3-6 month's to get them and pay easily like 3 times more and most likely i would not get them. And it's hard to get from region's headlibary any kind of rarer book's and those are comic book's so no change's to get them from there. So it's better just read what you can on web.

[drengnikrafe]

I find it reasonable to think that Haley is second in command because she has the second best balance of mental stats.
Let's look at this for a moment...

Durkon seems to have good wisdom, but charisma and inteligence don't seem to be the best for him (they're by no means bad, but...).

Elan has great Charisma. And nothing else going for him.

Vaarsuvius = Elan. Replace "Charisma" with "Inteligence". (and "him" with "him/her")

It almost wouldn't surprise me to hear that Belkar's mental stats were negative.

Haley has good charisma (at least, most everyone things she's pretty, and she gets along well with most people), reasonable inteligence, and reasonable wisdom.

So, you ask, why not Durkon, since his stats seem to be a little better? The charisma is the key point of that.


Of course, this is my speculation, and you are free to disagree.

[Inhuman Bot]

My impression is that
a) she used it as an excuse to get higher wages.

b) and, at that point, it wasn't the Order yet. It was Roy & Durkon + those four people they'd hired. As the smart AND charismatic one, Haley was the best choice to act as the voice of the people, aka the hirelings.

That reminds me. Didn't Roy say they weren't being paid? why does she expect a higher wage, even after she acknoweldges she gets loot and no pay?

[Warren Dew]

Anyway, getting back on-topic, it's true that Durkon would seem the logical choice for second in command because of his level-headedness (tree paranoia excepted...), but he doesn't really have much in the way of leadership skills in my opinion.

This highlights an interesting point: being a good second in command is not the same as being the best choice to succeed to command.

I think Durkon would have been a great second in command for Roy: he works really well with Roy, and he'd be good at helping Roy keep people in line under Roy's authority, which would take some of the load off Roy.

I don't think he's a good choice for command when Roy is gone, for the reasons mentioned by others in this thread: he's not great at coming up with strategies, and getting people to listen to him without Roy to back him up would be difficult.

[kpenguin]

Well I guess I must've missed that part in the book. Drat.

I got the book from the library, for the record. I'm not a freeloader; I bought that book with my tax money!

Your library has OotS books?!

Awww man. I wish my library was as cool as yours. :smallfrown:

[Inhuman Bot]

Yeah, I agree Kpenguin....

All we have over in my library is tintin :/ not that that's bad)

[NerfTW]

That reminds me. Didn't Roy say they weren't being paid? why does she expect a higher wage, even after she acknoweldges she gets loot and no pay?

She didn't say "wages" or "pay". She said "a higher amount of monetary compensation", meaning a larger share of the treasure. Which she then increased even more with the whole "five worthless rocks" routine after the dungeon.

[Vargtass]

On the original question, it could also be noted that Durkon accepted Haley as second in command because he hoped it would make her more responsible...

[Lord Seth]

Your library has OotS books?!

Awww man. I wish my library was as cool as yours. :smallfrown:Well, not quite. My library doesn't, but we have an "interlibrary loan" option, where you basically fill out a request form and they see if they can find other library systems that have it (though the book must have been out for at least four months). If they find one, they send it over to you and you get it, though only for two weeks.

[Morty]

I'm trying to imagine myself coming up to any of the three(two of which are run by the same guy anyway) libraries in my town and asking them to ship any OoTS book for me, but it comes out rather awkward. "Yes sir, I'd like you to order an American comicbook by an author you've never heard of before that's in English and is a prequel of/compilation of a satirical webcomic, assuming you know what a webcomic is... have I mentioned the shipping fees?"
Yeah, it's not that easy.

[NerfTW]

I'm trying to imagine myself coming up to any of the three(two of which are run by the same guy anyway) libraries in my town and asking them to ship any OoTS book for me, but it comes out rather awkward. "Yes sir, I'd like you to order an American comicbook by an author you've never heard of before that's in English and is a prequel of/compilation of a satirical webcomic, assuming you know what a webcomic is... have I mentioned the shipping fees?"
Yeah, it's not that easy.

There wouldn't really be fees. Inter-library loans are very common. And as the compilations have ISBN numbers, they can simply check the database to see if anyone nearby has it. They won't order from America, but there's a chance someone in thier circle has it.

Not to mention there are hundreds of authors people haven't heard of. No reason to tell them all the details about the webcomic, you would simply tell them the name, author, and that it's fiction. (To narrow the search a little) The librarian isn't out to mock you. They have to search for books all the time.

[Morty]

There wouldn't really be fees. Inter-library loans are very common. And as the compilations have ISBN numbers, they can simply check the database to see if anyone nearby has it. They won't order from America, but there's a chance someone in thier circle has it.

Could be, I'm not very knowledgeable on shipping and the like. But that's just one reason less.

[Deathcon300]

UUUMMM hello did anyone read orig. of Pcs

the rest of the people elected :haley: so she wouldent steal all of their stuff in the night
and
:belkar:= psycotic
:durkon:= needs to recharge at night so he cant do much
:vaarsuvius:= talketive and no gender and always busy W/ killin things, ranting to sleepy goblins

[NerfTW]

UUUMMM hello did anyone read orig. of Pcs

the rest of the people elected :haley: so she wouldent steal all of their stuff in the night
and
:belkar:= psycotic
:durkon:= needs to recharge at night so he cant do much
:vaarsuvius:= talketive and no gender and always busy W/ killin things, ranting to sleepy goblins

If you'd actually bothered to read the thread, you'd see that this has been mentioned many times, and doesn't require you to be so obnoxious about it.