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Kiyona
2008-09-14, 08:46 AM
Hello all,

Im gonna play an evil character in an upcoming campaign and have a little trouble coming up with characterconcepts. I have always played good and neutral characters, so I am having a had time coming up with motivation for someone evil... Probably because I dont really agree with the alignment system. But that is an entirly different discussion. :smallbiggrin:

So, I would appreciate if those of you who has played and enjoyed an evil character of your own could tell me a little about it. Just to get me some inspiration. =)

Tell me anything. Background, character quirks, entire consept. Please, insire me. :smallbiggrin:

Epinephrine
2008-09-14, 08:54 AM
Pretty much the same as for a good character, minus altruism?

Money, power, revenge, dislikes of certain things, a quest to improve the status of the world you will rule...

One can even be motivated by good things (saving the world from the badguy invaders) but have a lack of morality/concern for innocents (yeah, I strapped a bomb to the baby carriage, but it got 20 of the badguys).

random11
2008-09-14, 09:10 AM
You can basically take any motivation for good or neutral characters, and add "at any cost" to it.

For less realistic "MWA-HA-HA-I-AM-EVIL" type, add megalomania.

TheCountAlucard
2008-09-14, 09:18 AM
If you want, here's the story on a character from my evil campaign...

Slimph Landarin Slimph Landarin is an Elven Archivist who specializes in Necromancy. Schooled at the Spire of Evernight, Slimph was defeated and nearly killed in a duel by a "stripling sorceror." Slimph was angry; after all, he had worked to get his power, but his foe had been born with his talent. Also, he was afraid. The sorceror had tortured him after his victory, using spells like wrack to make Slimph feel as much pain as possible for his loss.

Now Slimph is out there, gathering power for himself, seeking his vengeance against all spontaneous casters.

Thrawn183
2008-09-14, 09:20 AM
I like giving them a family that they're loyal to (For LE characters, which are my favorite evil ones). They'll help save the country/world/whatever but they're interraction with some random person in need of help is completely different.

I had a LE fighter with a family and most of the others in my group couldn't bend their heads around the fact that he was a very loving father. He'd just go a little too far in trying to protect his family.

nagora
2008-09-14, 09:20 AM
Evil is about domination, putting others down in order to raise themselves up etc. It doesn't have to be the end goal in itself.

For example, an evil character may want to be in charge of a golf club. To do so, they will blackmail, intimitate, deceive, or slander. They don't have to go the whole hog and kill anyone, though they might of course if they are evil enough.

So, decide on what your character wants and then set about getting it by that sort of means. Motivation for good and evil characters may be exactly the same in terms of their goals, but totally different in terms of means.

On the other hand, some evil characters are simply sadistic and enjoy being evil for the sake of being evil. Within D&D that means they take from others simply to make them suffer, with the ultimate examples of that being rape, murder and torture.

loopy
2008-09-14, 09:31 AM
Off my life.

Self-interest, the desire to get ahead for the least possible amount of effort. Willingness to manipulate and deceive to get ahead.

Balancing it out, I care deeply for the youth who look up to me. I'm not sure if I explained it clearly, but I consider myself a realistic NE character.

Shazzbaa
2008-09-14, 09:44 AM
I've always seen the less-flashy evil as a worldview where the world is not going to help you; essentially, the idea that you better look out for yourself because no one else will. A lot of RL people justify petty crimes with "well, I mean, everybody else does it," and I think most Evil people are of the opinion that, when it comes down to it, most reasonable people in their circumstances would take the extreme action that they're taking. That if they don't stab first, the other guy will stab them, and if there's no cosmic karma reward for not lying, then why on earth wouldn't you lie? As long as you're not going to get caught, there's no good reason not to do a lot of "questionable" things.

But then...

You can basically take any motivation for good or neutral characters, and add "at any cost" to it.

...this is very well put. :smallbiggrin:

There are many different shades and styles of evil. I always thought Chaotic Evil would be extremely difficult to play, until I realised that one character concept I had of a man who'd go to extreme lengths for his art was probably CE... and that guy was based on me. :smalleek:

There's definitely something to be said for taking a reasonable cause too far.

Mastikator
2008-09-14, 10:13 AM
The easiest type of evil character I can think of is a sociopath. Think; Dexter.
For a less degree of evil (and probably a more playable character), remove the whole "obsessive compulsive murdering"-thingy.

And then there's the type that revels in a flaw, like greed, or violence. Someone who embraces their evil traits to the point of, and in disregard to, other people's welfare.

The character can also worship an evil deity. That's always a winner.


Just remember that evil doesn't mean stupid or uncharismatic. Doing something that's beneficial to other's isn't automatically a good thing if you do it out of benefit for yourself.
An evil person can still help an old lady over the road, a good reputation could very well come in handy.
An evil person can be empathetic or polite or helpful.

Kami2awa
2008-09-14, 10:33 AM
There used to be a list of motivations or goals at www.omnology.com, but I can't get the site to open. Here's a few I can remember:

- Rule the World (obvious really) or part of it, or more than it (e.g. the Galaxy, the Universe).
- Destroy X/Y/Z. This could be a species, a city, a place, a concept (like beauty) or even an ideology (e.g. capitalism). Of course, it could be just everything that exists, because you're just that evil.
- Serve an evil cause; this is prime motivation for a servitor of a higher evil power.
- Serve a good cause, but badly. (E.g. a holy warrior who genuinely thinks he's doing the right thing).
- Change the world for the worse.
- Change the world for the better, only using an evil method to do it (e.g. reduce population pressure by genocide.)
- Gain money (or anything else of value).
- Gain immortality.
- Gain something back that was taken away or lost (the loss may be real or imagined).
- Revenge!

Gralamin
2008-09-14, 10:47 AM
As has been mentioned above, pretty close to any good and neutral characters usually.

Alternatively you can focus your character on the Seven Sins, and choose a way it works for your alignment (warning: Lust doesn't work with a lot of groups, try staying away from it unless your group is into that sort of thing). One or more of The Seven Sins work well do to them being powerful emotions on their own right.

For example:
You decide your character's main motivation is greed and how it interacts with his life.
If he is LE you may decide he wants everything, and will take however long it takes to get it (This is at its core a more lawful response to greed).
If he is NE you may decide your character simply wants, and will do whatever he thinks is needed to get whatever is currently holding his fancy.
If he is CE you may decide he wants now, and will fight and claim anything he sees that he wants.

Hal
2008-09-14, 10:52 AM
If you dislike the alignment system, you could always do something unconventional. Play a character who would normally be some flavor of Good, but be a necromancer. The only evil thing about him is the arbitrary labeling of his interests. "Why on earth was making this zombie evil? He's not harming anyone. Besides, that body was just going to rot in the ground, why not put it to good use?"

nagora
2008-09-14, 10:59 AM
For example:
You decide your character's main motivation is greed and how it interacts with his life.
If he is LE you may decide he wants everything, and will take however long it takes to get it (This is at its core a more lawful response to greed).
If he is NE you may decide your character simply wants, and will do whatever he thinks is needed to get whatever is currently holding his fancy.
If he is CE you may decide he wants now, and will fight and claim anything he sees that he wants.
I'd say:
LE - he wants everything but knows that realistically, he can get more by working with others to form an "elite of the deserving". Obviously, he will want to rise to the top of that elite, but together they can fleece the weak much more effectively than working singularly and too much in-fighting (beyond that needed to weed out weaklings, of course) will allow their enemies to gain the upper hand.
NE - he will use anyone on his way to the top - joining organisations and working with them as long as they serve his needs, or working alone if no mugs can be found to contribute to the character's favourite charity - himself.
CE - Nobody tells him how to live his life or do his job. If someone wants to join in the quest for money and power, then they better be willing to take orders, and they better sleep with a knife under the pillow if they succeed better than the character does!

ghost_warlock
2008-09-14, 11:22 AM
Most of my evil characters are pseudo-Knight Templars (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KnightTemplar), utterly devoted to the absolute oblivion of some force/creature they see as evil. As previous posters have noted, "at any cost..." is a good quote for this sort of character. Note that this works best when you're playing in a campaign that features black and gray morality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlackAndGrayMorality), but it can potentially work in just about any campaign so long as you're willing to play it with a sense of humor or suspend some disbelief.

Some examples of the kinds of things my characters have been devoted to wiping out:

Mind-flayers
The Lich Queen of the Githyanki
Necromancy magic and any type of undead
All arcane magic
A campaign-specific tyrant
Slavery and slave-takers


Note that many of these examples sound like a perfectly resonable subject for destruction, but to give it a truly evil spin you can work it up into a true obesssion (play on the 'at any cost' thing). Another way is to make little-to-no effort to fill the power/economic voids that will result if the character is actually successful (who will lead the nation if the tyrant is beheaded?), other than switching to a new target for the character's obsessive urge for destruction.

Gralamin
2008-09-14, 11:29 AM
I'd say:
LE - he wants everything but knows that realistically, he can get more by working with others to form an "elite of the deserving". Obviously, he will want to rise to the top of that elite, but together they can fleece the weak much more effectively than working singularly and too much in-fighting (beyond that needed to weed out weaklings, of course) will allow their enemies to gain the upper hand.
NE - he will use anyone on his way to the top - joining organisations and working with them as long as they serve his needs, or working alone if no mugs can be found to contribute to the character's favourite charity - himself.
CE - Nobody tells him how to live his life or do his job. If someone wants to join in the quest for money and power, then they better be willing to take orders, and they better sleep with a knife under the pillow if they succeed better than the character does!

All of these also work. Alignments and motivations are more diverse then how some make them out to be.

Learnedguy
2008-09-14, 11:32 AM
Incidentally, the actions of true powergamers are very much of that of a neutral evil character.

So whenever you have to make choice, remember "What would a munchkin do?"

hotel_papa
2008-09-14, 11:37 AM
For playability, I'd avoid CE. It's just too "doesn't play nice with the other kids" for what is, ultimatly, a social, teamwork-based game. And it's too easy to fall into chaotic stupid.

My favorite motivation for neutral evil is simple greed. Lots to work with there.

As for lawful evil, a dedication to accruing power seems to work, especially at the expence of those you can prove weaker than you. Think every americanized anime ever, like Dragonball Z. Goku has this philosophy of finding inner strength through overcoming adversity. If you're SEEKNG said adversity, you cross the line into evil.

HP

Bob the Urgh
2008-09-14, 11:43 AM
Or, just be a member of a political party, democrats, republicans, etc...

Avor
2008-09-14, 11:56 AM
Racism, your character is perfectly fine level headed untill he/she comes across ghomes. Inferior, dirty little creatures that should be killed or enslaved with out mercy.

Kiyona
2008-09-14, 11:58 AM
You are all so right, thank you for pointing it out to me. I got completly stuck on the BBEG kind of evil, so it never occured to me that you can play almost anything, except maybe altruism, and still be evil. Thank you. :smallbiggrin:

It will probably be a young sorcerer dedicated to killing a kind of tyrant in the setting. Using any means necessary. She even joins his ranks to get close enough to him. (and earn some cash, a terribly greedy girl she is) and doesnt give second thougts on the deeds she commits under his rule. As its for the "greater good". The world will be a much better place with him ddead. Also, its probably personal, but I havent yet decided what he has done to her.

Thanks again for the input, it really helped me get my thoughts straight.

And please, do give more examples of evil characters. It is always intersting to read about others creations. =)

Justin_Bacon
2008-09-14, 12:08 PM
The easiest type of evil character I can think of is a sociopath. Think; Dexter.
For a less degree of evil (and probably a more playable character), remove the whole "obsessive compulsive murdering"-thingy.

I've never watched Dexter, but I understand that the concept is that Dexter recognizes himself as an unrepentent serial killer, but chooses to use those "gifts" to hunt down people who "deserve" it in the form of vicious criminals who have slipped through the justice system.

That actually seems like a pretty playable character in D&D. Just replace "bad people who have slipped through the justice system with" with "evil humanoids".

I'm also imagining someone who gets a ring of detect evil and uses it to justify their sociopathic acts.

nagora
2008-09-14, 12:09 PM
You are all so right, thank you for pointing it out to me. I got completly stuck on the BBEG kind of evil, so it never occured to me that you can play almost anything, except maybe altruism, and still be evil.
Okay, try this for size: The character sets about making money in a socially responsible way; helping others as much as possible and becomes a model of hospitality and generosity. Because he is a self-satisfied, smug git who loves the adulation this all brings him.

Imagine his, and everyone else's, surprise when he walks through the mists of the astral plane and finds himself at the gateway inscribed.

"Abandon all hope!"

The DM knows what lurks in hearts of PCs....

hamishspence
2008-09-14, 03:56 PM
Not, I think, according to Fiendish Codex 2. No matter your motivation, you must commit an actual evil act to get in. Good acts committing with selfish motives: "It makes me feels good to have people sucking up to me" are Neutral, not Evil.

nagora
2008-09-14, 04:06 PM
Not, I think, according to Fiendish Codex 2. No matter your motivation, you must commit an actual evil act to get in. Good acts committing with selfish motives: "It makes me feels good to have people sucking up to me" are Neutral, not Evil.
Yeah, you're right. I was pushing my luck there. The motive does undermine the Good done, but not enough to be classed as Evil.

hamishspence
2008-09-14, 04:09 PM
I've never liked the whole: "Any self-interest downgrades Good Acts to Neutral" concept, given that virtually all acts contain some self-interest.

From "I want to go to heaven" to "I want my children to have a better chance, by making the world a better place" it's almost impossible to eliminate self-interest, and if you do, your acts may seem...odd.

EvilElitest
2008-09-14, 04:15 PM
I've never liked the whole: "Any self-interest downgrades Good Acts to Neutral" concept, given that virtually all acts contain some self-interest.

From "I want to go to heaven" to "I want my children to have a better chance, by making the world a better place" it's almost impossible to eliminate self-interest, and if you do, your acts may seem...odd.
I think its is more when you act selfishlly. For example, if i save a bunch of babies from cultist, but i just want the reward money, i'm neutral, maybe evil (if i've done other nasty actions) However, if i save them for its own sake and i want to go to heaven, then i'm still good. At least, thats migh interpretation

As for villains i always use history as my example
from
EE

hamishspence
2008-09-14, 04:22 PM
Which raises question of: Is: "I want to go to the Upper Planes" or "I want to avoid going to the Lower Planes" a selfish motivation? After all, its strongly based on self-interest: risks posed to the soul, and incidence of painful afterlife, is much higher on lower planes, in D&D. So, being good to avoid the Lower Planes is a moderately selfish act.

Some theorists went so far as to say the concept that self-interest is evil (otherwise it couldn't make Good acts Neutral) is wrong in itself.

Interestingly, post-Exalted Deeds, there seems to be a shift away from the anti-selfishess definition of Good: certain altruistic, unselfish, acts, that may even be against your self-interest (obeying a superior you do not respect, aiding them to your own detriment, etc) are specifically defined as Lawful, rather than Good, in Fiendish Codex 2.

nagora
2008-09-14, 04:25 PM
I've never liked the whole: "Any self-interest downgrades Good Acts to Neutral" concept, given that virtually all acts contain some self-interest.

From "I want to go to heaven" to "I want my children to have a better chance, by making the world a better place" it's almost impossible to eliminate self-interest, and if you do, your acts may seem...odd.

I'm not suggesting self interest should be absent to be good, but if deeds are done only to gain reward, fame and fortune, or the admiration of the opposite sex, then it does undermine your acts.

At the end of the day, we all do things because we want to. Politics and violence being two of the most popular ways of making us change our mind about what we want to do, of course.

The Good-Evil axis is largely the spectrum from humble/selfless to arrogant/avaricious. Selfish is in the middle.

Mastikator
2008-09-14, 04:27 PM
I seriously doubt a really evil person would be more happy in the upper planes rather than the lower planes. Assuming that they (in their soul form) would not be eaten by some devil or demon.

Wanting to go to the upper planes rather than lower planes is neutral at worst.

hamishspence
2008-09-14, 04:29 PM
I personally would agree, but I have seen it argued that the idea the self-interest makes a Good act less Good, is built into the D&D morality system, and many others.

My personal ruling would be that the Good acts have to be done totally out of self-interest to be non-Good, which would mean a person doing the said acts would have to have an exceptionally self-centred personality.

EDIT: Manual of the planes makes it clear Lower Planes are far from pleasant, even for evil souls, which are regularly at risk of being destroyed by fiends, and are often tormented: manes, lemures, larvae, souls of Gehenna, etc.

Leliel
2008-09-14, 04:31 PM
I would suggest looking at the Anti Villain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain) entry on TV Tropes.

If you want to be an unsympathetic baddie, try The Humphrey (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Humphrey?from=Main.TheHumphrey), or simply listen to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTWBgiWtzsc) or this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fyuOWOUaxE).

nagora
2008-09-14, 04:32 PM
I personally would agree, but I have seen it argued that the idea the self-interest makes a Good act less Good, is built into the D&D morality system, and many others.

My personal ruling would be that the Good acts have to be done totally out of self-interest to be non-Good, which would mean a person doing the said acts would have to have an exceptionally self-centred personality.

Given that evil is generally easier than good, I think most such people would simply do evil and pretend/believe they had good reasons. If you're motivated enough to do good, you're probably actually good.

hamishspence
2008-09-14, 04:40 PM
Yes: mostly, self-interest is secondary rather than primary motivation for acts of Good characters in D&D.

The secondary factor, besides lower level of self-interest compared to the interests of others (even others you have a stake in, like friends, relations, lovers) is costs.

According to Exalted Deeds, good acts require a certain amount of cost to the giver: acts with no cost- charity from the very rich, or acts with no risk) are more Neutral than good.

Costs can be time, resources, risks to the giver, injury to the giver, and even, the life of the giver.

chiasaur11
2008-09-14, 05:13 PM
Racism, your character is perfectly fine level headed untill he/she comes across ghomes. Inferior, dirty little creatures that should be killed or enslaved with out mercy.

But...
Gnome killing is heroic!
Dirty Gnomes...

Also, I'm in the party that's okay with some degree of self interest.

I mean, if you'd never do self sacrificing acts, sure that's bad, but if a character does everything to benefit others, really, listing it as an evil act because they felt good about it is just being a bit of a jerk.

Guchalez
2008-09-14, 10:14 PM
Or you can just happen to be evil. In DnD you will have to perform evil acts in order to be evil. You don't have to worship an evil Deity, you may be a knight in a shinning armor but like torturing every orc you cross over a information, or maybe just happen to hit your party member because the doppleganger might be personating him(that one always makes me laugh), you can also forget to do non-lethal damage to the charmed or dominated NPC.
But your motivation can be almost anything but always remember survival. Yoy may want to take out the dictator king over your country(because you want the throne for yourself) but not be willing to die in battle.
World domination motivated character doesn't seem like an adveturous playable PC to me. Personally I like curious characters fascinated by death.

Stupendous_Man
2008-09-14, 10:28 PM
I have a warlock who's parents sold his soul to a devil for power.

He is Chaotic Evil, but often fights for and on the side of Good, trying to win back his soul somehow, as he views refraining from indulging in his bloodthirsty instincts worth it if he can get his soul back.

After that, he would probably be less hesitant about murdering people in their sleep.

He is very personally unpleasant, but always ends up going the "good" thing.... just for different motives.

NeoVid
2008-09-16, 07:49 PM
My LE wizard works hard to gain power, influence and followers... since the only way he's going to be able to get back into the city he was exiled from- so as to get back the love of his life- is at the head of an army.

d-dave
2008-09-16, 08:07 PM
I love being a LE bard, using charm, wit and bloody manipulation to reach my goals. He supported a local children's hospital using blackmail money from various people in the city who he found or invented dirt on. The irony is that one of his biggest supporters was a cleric to the god the hospital was blessed to! I miss that character. The DM made us quit that city campaign because he wanted to do more dungeons (and got tired of me outsmarting him).

Moff Chumley
2008-09-16, 08:45 PM
I had a hugely creepy warlock/bard who went to the most depraved extremes to make the best music... Soul bargaining, mind raping, theft, drug use... It got pretty creepy. :smalleek:

Ascension
2008-09-16, 09:01 PM
I'm currently playing a Death-worshiping NE strongheart halfling who's motivated by good old-fashioned sadism. He isn't really a mean person, exactly, but he loves to watch things die. It just so happens that evil is the easiest way to ensure there are plenty of deaths around you to enjoy.

Not the most deep background, I admit, but he's been fun so far. We've got at least one more psychotically evil character on the team, and it's nice being the straight man... sort of.

Occasional Sage
2008-09-17, 02:17 AM
Short of alignment detection, other characters might not even need to recognize that your character is evil. You obviously are thinking of a lofty goal; just because your methods are pragmatic doesn't mean you're a bad person!

Really, the alignment system can be *a little* biased.

As a thought for the future: what happens when your lofty goal is completed? Without the guiding light do you a) lose all compunction and become a vile force of self-interest, or b) lose the drive that led to despicable acts and begin the shift toward the "good" end of the spectrum, or c) something else?

Xuincherguixe
2008-09-17, 02:59 AM
D&D tends to have some weird ideas, but my thought is that Evil amounts basically to unbalance. Taking things without regard to the consequences. If it hurts someone? Then it's their own fault for being weak.

Also, you can have strange priorities.

Still, if you're an evil PC, I would say that you need to have a mostly consistent ideology of things. Especially if it's a believable one.

At the moment, I'm doing a pbp game over here where I'm a Chaotic Evil god of amongst other things Love, Beauty, Life, Violence, Light, and Explosions. It's also the kind of Chaotic Evil that were it a PC, it could work with the team.

Feel free to go in weird directions.

Also, you definitely want to play a smart evil character. Because those are a lot of fun. Frame others for your crimes. Fight dirty. Create Labyrinthine schemes such that even when you lose, you still win.