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BRC
2008-09-14, 04:57 PM
So, in the last session a situation cropped up, it's likely to crop up again, and I want some advice on what to do.

I won’t go into detail here, but I had set up a scenario where the PC’s had several things they could do to make an upcoming battle easier. If they did none of these things, loss was practically inevitable, if they did all three, things would be a good deal easier. The PC’s decide to do all three, however instead of sticking together they decide to split up. This leads to three of them running into an encounter ( A landshark) I had intended the entire group to take on, due to the nature of the encounter they had no real way of seeing it coming, and it could have taken all three of them down easily. I OOC warned them that I had intended this for the whole party to take on and they backed off, but not before one of them died.

Now, was warning them the right thing to do In this situation, should I have just let them reap the fruits of splitting up the party. It wasn’t really their fault, at first glance the side quest appeared to be diplomacy based. Also, due to the nature of the campaign something like this may crop up again, so the next time I get a sub-strength group against an encounter balanced for the whole group what should I do?

its_all_ogre
2008-09-14, 05:01 PM
depends on style.
i always warn players that if they do silly things, like split up or take on too powerful creatures, they may die.
and i won't save them because they are the players.

on the other hand. is it fun to be killed with no chance of survival because they failed to meta game that encounters would be tailored for the whole group?

choose your style basically

nagora
2008-09-14, 05:09 PM
Now, was warning them the right thing to do In this situation, should I have just let them reap the fruits of splitting up the party. It wasn’t really their fault, at first glance the side quest appeared to be diplomacy based. Also, due to the nature of the campaign something like this may crop up again, so the next time I get a sub-strength group against an encounter balanced for the whole group what should I do?
If you as DM depend on something happening then you have to give the players a reasonable chance to know. In this case, if there was a chance that they could meet the bulette without being together, then you should have given them a chance to scout ahead. If they don't take it then that's their problem and let the TPK fall where it may. Of course, if they're newbies then you can tell them that not scouting is probably a bad idea and take it from there.

Play up the wisdom attributes too - an 18 Wis ranger will not let the party split up anywhere where there is reasonable danger of running into something that needs the whole party to handle. As DM, you can step in as the voice of reason with a note to the wise character's player.

valadil
2008-09-14, 06:10 PM
We've always used common sense checks (wisdom, DC 5) to get warned about things like that.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-09-14, 06:36 PM
I only warn if the PCs are about to do something their characters would know to be really dumb. Usually, these sorts of situations crop up when the player has forgotten something that their character would not (like the fact that City X is extremely hostile to the PC's religion), or if they are ignoring a factor that is very important (like splitting up in a woods known to be crawling with monsters).

Telling the PCs "you cannot win this encounter, run away" is a bit heavy-handed for me. Rather, I would have mentioned previously "to get to the Negotiation Point, you have to cross the Plains of Landsharks, which are known to be very dangerous" or, if I were being subtle, "the Negotiation Point is in the middle of the Hobgoblin Camp. Are you sure you want to send one guy alone into the middle of enemy territory?" That way the players would be advised of some related hazard before making their decision, and so they could take whatever kind of actions in response.

Now, regarding encounter strength: I would not throw hard encounters against the PCs unless they are important for the plot. A wandering monster shouldn't be above EL +0, and they should only pop up in known "hazardous" areas. EL +0 encounters shouldn't kill a single PC outright, and can probably be bloodied enough to allow a smart PC to run away.

If an area isn't known to be hazardous, then any encounter there should be plot relevant - and that's the trick. A plot-relevant encounter can easily be turned from a kill-encounter to a capture-encounter (an assassin can be converted into a kidnapper, for example) and then you adjust your plot from there. The PCs shouldn't smell anything suspicious from such a change, and it can encourage the PCs to be a little more paranoid in the future. However, if the encounter is plot-relevant and takes place in a hazardous area, you may just want to run it at full strength. Don't be afraid to kill your PCs - just don't make it so that they seem to die for no reason.

Knaight
2008-09-14, 06:37 PM
I would allow a distraction to work if executed possibly buying them time to run away and get their allies, seeing as land sharks aren't even particularly intelligent. Low wisdom too if I remember correctly.

Dannoth
2008-09-14, 06:48 PM
As long as you aren't DM purists (DM is an outside force) then it is fine. I find that games are more fun when the DM's actions are open for discussion.

What I probably would have done>

Wanred them that their paths are treacherous and sending one party member alone would be unwise.

If they go anyway ... have the land shark gnaw off a leg and swim away it's hunger sated.

NPC "advisors" are often a good tool - ie. Have someone warn them in game (wandering rangers, town guards, etc)

black dragoon
2008-09-14, 06:53 PM
I can be a ruthless DM but if they are going need certain things and did something stupid I'll maybe lighten the battle a little bit but I'll still make them realize that splitting is a dangerous idea.

drengnikrafe
2008-09-14, 07:24 PM
My thought when I read your predicament was...

Was there no way to prevent these "things" to be done without the full party? I mean, you could have some sort of switch that would ease the upcoming battle on top of a cliff, where all the walls are perfectly unclimbable, and the only way to get to it is for the PCs to stand on one another's shoulders... or something.

I'm not really sure...

monty
2008-09-14, 07:50 PM
Hehe, landsharks.
http://www.me-thinks.com/pix/shark.jpg
What's the only thing more awesome than sharks with lasers?
Landsharks with lasers.


In other news, the left button on my touchpad is now broken, so this is really tedious to do.

Vortling
2008-09-14, 08:45 PM
How familiar is this group with your views on splitting up the group? I've been in groups in which splitting up was punished, and in groups where not splitting up was punished. If your players don't know they're getting into trouble by splitting up you may need to warn or remind them of that fact.

BRC
2008-09-14, 09:03 PM
How familiar is this group with your views on splitting up the group? I've been in groups in which splitting up was punished, and in groups where not splitting up was punished. If your players don't know they're getting into trouble by splitting up you may need to warn or remind them of that fact.
I havn't really given an opinion on it yet. The campaign is fairly investigation-based, so often splitting up makes sense (How many people do you need to talk to the police, and only your stealty types can break into that office anyway). It's just sometimes the investigation paths lead to traps.