View Full Version : Frenzied Berserker (CWar) and Righteous Wrath (BoED)

2008-09-15, 12:55 AM
Righteous Wrath, Book of Exalted Deeds pg 45

While raging, you maintain clarity of mind unusual among barbarians.
You are perfectly able to deal nonlethal damage, stop your attacks to show mercy, and distinguish friend from foe even in the heat of your rage.

Would this apply to a Frenzied Berserker's frenzy? Instinctively, I want to say no. Part of the balance of the Frenzied Berserker comes from the fact that if they're not careful (or just unlucky), they could very well start chopping their party up. But I do want to give the player some help.

Two things I was considering:
- Give him the feat and make it work while frenzied, but have a "massive damage" threshold that, if crossed, negates the advantages of this feat.
- Give him a bonus to his Will save to exit the frenzy when he targets an ally

2008-09-15, 01:02 AM
Frenzy/=Rage. They are different abilities, and by RAW this doesn't work. Now, that said, I could see a thematic reason why there would be overlap from this feat. I'd say allow them to take it twice, and if they do, allow a Will Save to reduce the insanity from Frenzy down to that of a Rage, but more intense. Still say they cannot end it voluntarily, and must keep fighting till the opponents are dead. Obviously, the feat in the OP wouldn't apply to modified Frenzy.

2008-09-15, 01:11 AM
Frenzy/=Rage. They are different abilities, and by RAW this doesn't work.

Back when I was a 3e-head (a million years ago), I did a detailed analysis of Righteous Wrath and how it would work with Frenzy, and by RAW, it does work to abate the Frenzy.

I suppose I could dig out the books and take a look at it again.

2008-09-15, 01:14 AM
By RAW, Righteous Wrath doesn't allow you to do anything that you couldn't already do.

Rage (Ex)
A barbarian can fly into a rage a certain number of times per day. In a rage, a barbarian temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength, a +4 bonus to Constitution, and a +2 morale bonus on Will saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase in Constitution increases the barbarianís hit points by 2 points per level, but these hit points go away at the end of the rage when his Constitution score drops back to normal. (These extra hit points are not lost first the way temporary hit points are.) While raging, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. A fit of rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the characterís (newly improved) Constitution modifier. A barbarian may prematurely end his rage. At the end of the rage, the barbarian loses the rage modifiers and restrictions and becomes fatigued (-2 penalty to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, canít charge or run) for the duration of the current encounter (unless he is a 17th-level barbarian, at which point this limitation no longer applies).

So let it apply to Frenzy to prevent it from being completely worthless.

2008-09-15, 01:19 AM
By RAW, Righteous Wrath doesn't allow you to do anything that you couldn't already do.

This was part of my reasoning, I believe.

Barbarians in a Rage can normally stop their attacks to show mercy, so Righteous Wrath must be referring to something else that wouldn't allow your character to stop their attacks to show mercy... like being in a Frenzy.

2008-09-15, 01:22 AM
BOED is 3.0, CWar is 3.5. Rage and Frenzy are two different abilities with two seperate bonuses, they stack you know. ;)
Anyway, the feat does not by ruling apply to Frenzy, but there is really no reason why it shouldn't, save that it destroys the frenzy.
The frenzy is powerful, VERY powerful and as such comes with the problem that it might effect your ability to discern friend from foe. However, as DM, I would rule that with a wisdom of atleast 15, requiring you to also maintain a wisdom of 15 while frenzying then the feat could apply as well to Frenzy.

Book of Exalted Deeds is filled with two types of feats: Completely useless ones, and INSANELY powerful/useful ones.

2008-09-15, 05:00 AM
BoED is 3.5 actually, BoVD is the 3.0 one. That being said, I believe the BoVD to be a superior suppliment.