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View Full Version : Dark Heresy - Balance issues



SpikeFightwicky
2008-09-15, 09:52 AM
Has anyone else had some problems with Psykers stealing the show? In a setting where psychic powers should be as much (more?) gift than curse for a human, there are very few problems with being a psyker (and with the power 'Lucky', they can re-roll and 9s on their manifest dice). A psyker with attack powers can usually attack twice per round, and a divination psyker can wield a melta gun and never miss a headshot, despite not being trained with it. It feels very un-WH40k the way they work... And since there hasn't been any errata for them, I have to assume this is how they were intended to be played. Then again, I may just be blowing things out of proportion, but it seems like the rest of group is backup in case the psyker somehow fails to do something.

only1doug
2008-09-15, 10:05 AM
i haven't read the rules yet (not even taken it out of its shrink wrap) but if you feel that its a problem then assign a cumulative chance of demons materialising from the warp / mutations etc for each power used.
minor powers, not worth a roll unless he uses them often.
major powers give a bigger chance immediately and it only gets worse.
The only way to reset is to allow the warp noise to dissipate which takes time with no psionic activity.
Some areas or situations will increase the chance due to their particular warp space significance.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-15, 01:09 PM
I would've thought there'd be something like the Curse of Tzeentch in Warhammer Fantasy RP, where you have a considerable (10+% once you've got Magic 2 or higher) chance to bring the Chaos pain to yourself and your allies.

Every time you use a spell, if the casting dice turn up doubles, triples, quadruples (or, Sigmar forbid, quintuples), you roll on the appropriate Curse of Tzeentch table. The effects aren't always crippling, but they are random and do range from inconvenient to lethal and catastrophic.

Since Psychic powers in WH40K are also manifestations of Chaos, shouldn't similar problems apply? Insanity, mutation, and general evil follow from frequent use of Psychic ability.

No such mechanic in Dark Heresy?

SpikeFightwicky
2008-09-15, 02:06 PM
They have a somewhat similar mechanic. If the psyker rolls a 9 on any dice when they manifest a power, some kind of warp event happens. They also have a power that lets them reroll any one roll. So in our group, the one time it happened, he just rerolled the 9. Other than that, there's no penalty for excessive use of psychic powers.

Unfortunately, I'm not the GM of the game, so I can't really make any changes on my own.

Exarch
2008-09-15, 02:13 PM
Well, what's the story? Are you random Rogue Traders? If so, introduce the Inquisition. They enjoy disposing of rogue psykers, especially the Ordo Heriticus. If you're a band of Inquisitorial lackeys, introduce another Inquisitor's party. Not-so-friendly rivalry is pretty common, so if a sniper learns about the Warp-Seer and takes him out with a headshot...sucks for him.

Roog
2008-09-15, 02:23 PM
They have a somewhat similar mechanic. If the psyker rolls a 9 on any dice when they manifest a power, some kind of warp event happens. They also have a power that lets them reroll any one roll. So in our group, the one time it happened, he just rerolled the 9. Other than that, there's no penalty for excessive use of psychic powers.

Unfortunately, I'm not the GM of the game, so I can't really make any changes on my own.

RAW it works that way, but thematically that trick should not work in the 40k universe.

If I was GMing a Dark Heresy game and a character tried that, then the character would be 'lucky' now, but in reality something worse would happen later.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-15, 02:54 PM
Yeah - Dark Heresy is definitely a game where the GM should be taking a firm hand in interpreting and changing the rules to maintain the feel of the game.

Bryn
2008-09-15, 04:14 PM
If I was playing a psyker, I wouldn't want to re-roll a die that caused psychic phenomena; the table's just too fun not to use :smallamused:

Every time the psyker manifests Lucky, they have a chance of rolling a 9 (and they can't re-roll that). In addition, if they're manifesting Lucky every other turn to get a re-roll, then they are also spending a half action on manifesting lucky every other turn.

In any case, if the Lucky power is a problem, tell your GM your concern and, if they're a reasonable person, they should have a look. Simply stating that Lucky cannot affect psychic power rolls (or that it can, but perils of the warp still applies even when re-rolled) would instantly sort out the problem.

Destro_Yersul
2008-09-15, 04:29 PM
Or, even better and perfectly in line with the GRIMDARK, it can be used to re-roll the 9. BUT, if you get another 9 it counts double. Or something like that.

Myshlaevsky
2008-09-15, 04:33 PM
At highers level, psykers do become very, very powerful. They can eventually cast any power, without much difficulty, on one dice.

holywhippet
2008-09-15, 04:41 PM
Psykers do have the potential to be very powerful in Dark Heresy. The distort vision power is one of the most game breaking IMO. Basically it makes you appear to be somewhere up to 10 metres away from where you actually are IIRC. So anyone attacking will target the fake you. It doesn't work on anything that doesn't rely on eyes or sensors (which is a very short list) and can only be seen through via a psyscience test - and even if that succeeds, attacks are still at -30. Best of all, the power is a free action to activate - you can just use it after you've finished your turn.

Another sweet power is unnatural aim (IIRC). It treats all ballistic tests as being at point blank range until the end of the next turn which means +30 to hit. So trigger the power on one turn, then aim for the other half action. Next turn use a full auto weapon (with laser sights if possible). IIRC you are basically firing with these stats: BS + 30 (unnatural aim) + 30 (full auto, or is it 20?) + 10 (aim) + 10 (laser sights). Just about any roll will score at least one hit.

Zenos
2008-09-16, 09:58 AM
Laser sights only work when you only fire one shot, as far as I can understand from reading the rules.

SpikeFightwicky
2008-09-16, 12:41 PM
Yeah, laser sight doesn't work with semi or full auto.

The group is Inquisition sanctioned, and I'm not the GM, so I can't introduce any other factions. Although that seems like it might have the effect of picking on the psyker and shifting the spotlight on him more.

I'll have to bring this up with the GM. It definately feels more like D&D style magic than regular 40k style 'psychic powers are often more curse than gift'. As it stands, the player's cherry-picking the best guns we find because he has the psyker power to never miss (Divine Aim or something like that). And the worst part is, in-game, my character has no reason not to let him take it. He never misses headshots, so he might as well get the best weapon to deal the most damage.

Zenos
2008-09-16, 01:27 PM
My take on it is that I've told my player that if I feel like it, if he rolls Slaanesh's or Nurgle's holy numbers (6 and 7, respectively) he will be affected by a psychic phenomena.

leperkhaun
2008-09-17, 02:06 AM
Yeah, laser sight doesn't work with semi or full auto.

The group is Inquisition sanctioned, and I'm not the GM, so I can't introduce any other factions. Although that seems like it might have the effect of picking on the psyker and shifting the spotlight on him more.

I'll have to bring this up with the GM. It definately feels more like D&D style magic than regular 40k style 'psychic powers are often more curse than gift'. As it stands, the player's cherry-picking the best guns we find because he has the psyker power to never miss (Divine Aim or something like that). And the worst part is, in-game, my character has no reason not to let him take it. He never misses headshots, so he might as well get the best weapon to deal the most damage.

Ask your GM to use more guys to put the psyker in melee combat....when engaged in melee combat you do NOT get the +30 for point blank range.

Swordguy
2008-09-17, 02:17 AM
My take on it is that I've told my player that if I feel like it, if he rolls Slaanesh's or Nurgle's holy numbers (6 and 7, respectively) he will be affected by a psychic phenomena.

What? In addition to rolling a 9? That's...kinda harsh, even for 40K.

I'm kinda surprised nobody's pointed this out, but 40K is one of those settings that isn't supposed to be balanced. Some folks are just better than other people. Psykers can turn people inside-out, true...but they will eventually get eaten by the Warp. Aside from that, the big drawbacks to being a psyker are RP-centric; people tend to run at them in large mobs waving lasguns and torches when they find out someone's a psyker. Emperor help you if you aren't Inquisition-sanctioned and you run into a Witch Hunter or Adeptus Soritas...

Zenos
2008-09-17, 02:38 AM
What? In addition to rolling a 9? That's...kinda harsh, even for 40K.

I'm kinda surprised nobody's pointed this out, but 40K is one of those settings that isn't supposed to be balanced. Some folks are just better than other people. Psykers can turn people inside-out, true...but they will eventually get eaten by the Warp. Aside from that, the big drawbacks to being a psyker are RP-centric; people tend to run at them in large mobs waving lasguns and torches when they find out someone's a psyker. Emperor help you if you aren't Inquisition-sanctioned and you run into a Witch Hunter or Adeptus Soritas...

At least I do take away the chance for perils of the warp attack. And I might not enforce the rule if I feel like it.

Swordguy
2008-09-17, 02:49 AM
At least I do take away the chance for perils of the warp attack. And I might not enforce the rule if I feel like it.

Ah - OK. I was under the impression that the PC would suffer the equivalent of Perils of the Warp if they rolled any of a 6, 7, or 9.

My mistake.