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RagnaroksChosen
2008-09-15, 10:26 AM
So I was thinking about the whole Archivist being able to learn any divine spell and thinking about the paladin and ranger list specifically.

1. Would an Archivist make a good archer do to the ability to get Ranger spells?
2. Would an Archivist make a good front liner do to cleric/paladin spells?
3. Would an Archivist make for a good divine Gish?
4. Some what off my main point is there an Archivist handbook?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-15, 10:29 AM
So I was thinking about the whole Archivist being able to learn any divine spell and thinking about the paladin and ranger list specifically.

1. Would an Archivist make a good archer do to the ability to get Ranger spells?
2. Would an Archivist make a good front liner do to cleric/paladin spells?
3. Would an Archivist make for a good divine Gish?
4. Some what off my main point is there an Archivist handbook?1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes, but since it apparently requires registration, I can't find it for you yet.

RagnaroksChosen
2008-09-15, 10:35 AM
any good builds or thoughts on specific spells?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2008-09-15, 10:36 AM
Don't forget about being able to learn anything from the Bard spell list thanks to Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) . Plus there's Druid spells, and every spell from any Domain list.

arguskos
2008-09-15, 10:36 AM
So I was thinking about the whole Archivist being able to learn any divine spell and thinking about the paladin and ranger list specifically.

1. Would an Archivist make a good archer do to the ability to get Ranger spells?
2. Would an Archivist make a good front liner do to cleric/paladin spells?
3. Would an Archivist make for a good divine Gish?
4. Some what off my main point is there an Archivist handbook?
We can shorten your questions to:
1. Can Archivists be good at a variety of roles?
2. Is there an Archivist Handbook?

The answers:
1. Yes. However, it requires a DM who's willing to work with you on it (since prayerbooks are like spellbooks for getting spells, which means you need a DM to give you some scrolls and divine stuff every now and then).

Basically, Archivists are a good class. They just need a little work to achieve their potential.

2. Yes. I believe it is on the WoTC forums. I wouldn't know personally, since I detest those boards, but I've heard one exists over there.

-argus

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-15, 10:44 AM
Okay, I know there was an Artificer Handbook, because I found it for another thread yesterday. However, something weird is happening at the WotC boards, and I'm locked out of all of my bookmarks. Anyone else have a link?

Person_Man
2008-09-15, 10:54 AM
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:ztTlfIfNmHUJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-902149+archivist+handbook&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a).

Also, never play an archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) unless everyone else in your party is similarly optimized/powerful. Alternatively, you can choose to play a weak archivist by making poor spell and feat choices. But in general, they compete with the artificer for the title of Most Powerful Class Ever, and deprive many other classes of what makes them special and interesting to play.

RTGoodman
2008-09-15, 10:56 AM
Here's the link: Archivist's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-902149). It's been archived (oh, the puns...), so that might have something to do with your bookmarks not working. Or the switch to and then from Gleemax.

EDIT: Ninja'd, but Person_Man makes a good point - Archivists have the potential to be hideously broken if optimized. However, I won't say don't play one if the party isn't optimized; instead, just don't try to learn spells from other lists if you could get them at ridiculously low levels (like Holy Sword or whatnot from the Paladin's 4th-level list). If you do that, you're not much better off than a Cloistered Cleric, which while still good, isn't going to immediately destroy the game.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-15, 10:59 AM
Here's the link: Archivist's Handbook (http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-902149). It's been archived (oh, the puns...), so that might have something to do with your bookmarks not working. Or the switch to and then from Gleemax.:smallconfused::smallconfused::smallconfus ed:

Working again. Maybe I'm just crazy. Or something. Probably a curse, but who knows?

Sinfire Titan
2008-09-15, 11:17 AM
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes (http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:ztTlfIfNmHUJ:forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-902149+archivist+handbook&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a).

Also, never play an archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3) unless everyone else in your party is similarly optimized/powerful. Alternatively, you can choose to play a weak archivist by making poor spell and feat choices. But in general, they compete with the Erudite with Spell to Power Variant for the title of Most Powerful Class Ever, and deprive many other classes of what makes them special and interesting to play.

Fixed for accuracy. Artificer has been bumped down a level on the Big 6 due to Arcane Fusion being broken for an Erudite.

RagnaroksChosen
2008-09-15, 11:37 AM
that is probably the worst handbook ever written thank you guys though.

Person_Man
2008-09-15, 12:21 PM
Fixed for accuracy. Artificer has been bumped down a level on the Big 6 due to Arcane Fusion being broken for an Erudite.

Point conceded.

But I generally don't consider an online supplement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) to a book that most people disavow as usable material. It's like invoking Pun Pun.



that is probably the worst handbook ever written thank you guys though.

You really don't need a handbook. Basically, you can do anything. And with careful spell selection, you can probably do EVERYTHING. Just figure out what the general power level of your party is, then figure out what you want to do, then post "How do I do X with an Archivist."

For example, lets say you're a mid level Archivist, and that you want to be able to do everything. Pick up respectable armor, a good summons spell, a good healing spell, Holy Sword (Paladin), Black Tentacles (Slime Domain), Mislead (Trickery Domain), Arc of Lightning (Druid), Flame Strike (Sun domain), Aspect of the Bullette (Ranger), Blade Storm (Ranger), Polymorph (Transformation domain), Fly (Travel Domain), and Anyspell (Spell Domain). Throw in a couple of utility spells for fun. Remember that you can use wands and any spell trigger item you want for virtually every spell as well. That's all you really need, and it took me 5 minutes on Crystalkeep and the index to the Spell Compendium to compile.

arguskos
2008-09-15, 01:35 PM
For example, lets say you're a mid level Archivist, and that you want to be able to do everything. Pick up respectable armor, a good summons spell, a good healing spell, Holy Sword (Paladin), Black Tentacles (Slime Domain), Mislead (Trickery Domain), Arc of Lightning (Druid), Flame Strike (Sun domain), Aspect of the Bullette (Ranger), Blade Storm (Ranger), Polymorph (Transformation domain), Fly (Travel Domain), and Anyspell (Spell Domain). Throw in a couple of utility spells for fun. Remember that you can use wands and any spell trigger item you want for virtually every spell as well. That's all you really need, and it took me 5 minutes on Crystalkeep and the index to the Spell Compendium to compile.
Because this amuses me. This archivist is a:

Shapeshifting Flying Misled Landshark with Tentacles, surrounded by Blades, shooting Lightning and calling down Fire from the heavens. In case that isn't enough, his claws/bite are Holy, and he can do anything the wizard can do, just "in case."

What's not to like about a shapshifting flying tentacle-rape-esque LANDSHARK shooting lightning?:smallbiggrin:

Also, Archivists are pretty awesome (they are fun in Theurge's with Wizards, yay Int-based casters).

-argus

Eldariel
2008-09-15, 01:38 PM
Archivist is the closest thing you can get to a Divine Wizard too. No other class can achieve quite as versatile a spell list to screw people up with as an Archivist save the Wizard himself.

But yea, the thing about Archivists is, you don't really need a handbook. Basically:
-Choose spells that suit your primary playstyle and some utility. You've got the whole world to choose from. Level 1 Dispel Magic and the like may appear busted, but it's all you. Ema's Charsheets (http://www.emass-web.com/index.php) is damn handy for compiling these lists. Just don't forget to take the lowest level version of everything.
-Max Knowledges for Dark Knowledge and if you plan on any combat, pick up Knowledge Devotion (you're Int-based caster - you'll have the highest results possible, more or less). "Dread Secret" Dark Knowledge is just unbelievable - no save no hit ranged auto-Stun if you can make a Knowledge-check!
-You can also multiclass in Sacred Exorcist at 8 to get Turn Undead to burn for Divine Feats.


As far as Erudite goes, CPsi is a fine book for classes (Ardent, for example, is superb). It's the "everything else" in the book that sucks. Of course, online supplements are always online supplements, but seeing that that's the only way to make Erudite really playable, I'd probably even allow it myself (with some limitations).

monty
2008-09-15, 05:47 PM
As long as we're asking archivist questions...

I'm working on a build for my friend. Are there any good prestige classes to go along with it?

Eldariel
2008-09-15, 06:02 PM
Well, none advance Dark Knowledge (obviously). That said, stuff with higher BAB, divine casting and useful abilities are good. So basically any Cleric PrCs you can qualify for. The mentioned Sacred Exorcist is great and can be used as a bridge to qualify for others through the Turn Undead. Contemplative can bridge you into stuff that needs Domains and isn't bad at all itself either. Anyways, the obvious stuff is good:
-Radiant Servant of Pelor
-Sunmaster
-Church Inquisitor
-Ordained Champion
-Ruby Knight Vindicator (needs Turn Undead though - also keep in mind that Archivist's low HD and low BAB make him a slightly worse Gish; still, Divine Power solves)

So yea, basically Cleric PrCs with few "buts" thrown in though. Remember though, Archivist has its own class features and they're actually fairly strong so unlike with Cleric, Archivist's multiclassing isn't automatic.