Diablo's ease of defeat

[ArlEammon]

Why do I find that Diablo is a pushover in the original Diablo game?
Even in nightmare difficulty my Sorcerer just has to conjure half a dozen dragon head turrets and Diablo is gone.

[Malek]

Sorcerer gets it quite easy against D1 Diablo - and you don't have even to use Guardian - you can spam the (very fast and quite strong) Holy Bolt. The fact that mana shiled has a bug that makes you stun-immune helps. I think that Rouge and Warrior would have more problem to dish out the required damage under the constant barrage of Apocalypse.

[Cubey]

The rouge can pick Diablo off from the distance, but if she gets in melee range... it's a real mascara...

[kc0bbq]

Sorcerer was EZ mode, period. When you can get three dots being only as cautiously as you had to with a Rogue playing a Beyond Naked Mages (No Reading Glasses) Sorc...

Plus it was fun to get pked in your cursed gear. The reaction is priceless. Not like you had any chance if you played legit anyway.

[Winthur]

Diablo is weak, true. Well, he is not, after all, the boss who you find after a long struggle to engage in an epic fight. He's the kind of boss that is the brain of all the operations. :smallbiggrin:

The real thing is beating his minions. While a perfectly equipped warrior can beat Diablo by rushing into the middle of the pack and swinging only at Diablo (which is what I personally experienced), you don't usually have that comfort. Also, you have to strive through harsh 13-15 levels. In (meaning the game level, not as in area), there are monsters with three immunes to every magic that you know, and Sorcerer power diminishes! Your only rescue are Stone Curse and Golem spells. Well, you can also use help of your fellow Warrior (who also has to be smart enough NOT to engage a swarm of Soul Burners with no prior tactic!). Or you can use the fact that Lazarus has no immune to Fire in Hell. So that the game is doable. Teleport through the level, fireball him to death, find the pentagram and Bob is your uncle.

Caves or Hell is really where the game gets fun. Need to separate the enemies, lure them to engage one at one, and then kill.

Goddamn it, I think I should get Diablo back and try to win the game with a Rogue! This class, methinks, really requires the ellegancy. She has less dmg than Sorcerer and isn't as tough as Warrior. Had a lot of problems with her...

Oh. For you kids - Chain Lightning in warrior/mage pairings SUCKS. Hahaha. My friend was loony about frying me with his madman spam of Chain Lightnings all around the level.

[factotum]

The Diablo you meet in the original game isn't really Diablo at his full power, though--he's possessed the body of a young boy, after all. The Diablo from the second game shows what he's capable of when fully restored from a more powerful base character.

Of course, there's also the suggestion that he might have deliberately allowed himself to be defeated so he could take over the much more powerful warrior or whatever who defeated him...

[Moonshadow]

The Diablo you meet in the original game isn't really Diablo at his full power, though--he's possessed the body of a young boy, after all. The Diablo from the second game shows what he's capable of when fully restored from a more powerful base character.

Of course, there's also the suggestion that he might have deliberately allowed himself to be defeated so he could take over the much more powerful warrior or whatever who defeated him...

Uh, isn't that exactly what he did? The Warrior from Diablo 1 is canoninically the Dark Wanderer from D2.

[MeklorIlavator]

Uh, isn't that exactly what he did? The Warrior from Diablo 1 is canoninically the Dark Wanderer from D2.
He took over the Warrior, yes. But the question is if this was deliberate or not.

[SolkaTruesilver]

If I remember right, all the protagonists of Diablo I ended up badly, which is why it's so delicious..

Warrior became The Wanderer
Rogue became Blood Raven (or Andarielle, not sure)
Wizard became The Summoner
Monk got DisContinued

Overall, I wonder who's fate have been the worst... I think it's the Monk.

[Prustan]

Personally, I had it much easier with the Rogue then the Sorceror. Didn't need to worry overly much about switching spells, just grab the biggest bow you can and spam arrows until whatever's in your way is a pincushion. Found the Sorceror far too fragile, and the Warrior took too long to reach the spell-casting monsters.

[Moonshadow]

He took over the Warrior, yes. But the question is if this was deliberate or not.

It was deliberate. Throughout the entire descent through the dungeon, Diablo slowly worked his way into the Warriors mind. Thats why at the end, he decided the best way to contain Diablo was to insert the Soulstone into his forehead. All that did was make it so that Diablo could posess him and actually use his body.

Also, the Rogue wouldn't have become Andariel, Andariel was stuck in Hell or wherever until D2.

[SolkaTruesilver]

Also, the Rogue wouldn't have become Andariel, Andariel was stuck in Hell or wherever until D2.

But don't the Major Demon need an avatar to incarnates in the physical world? Baal needed the Horadrim knight, Mephisto needed the Zakarim High Priest. I think Duriel took over a maggot..

But then, okay. She became Blood Raven. Quite weak, sadly :smallfrown:

[Morty]

Wait the Sorcerer from Diablo 1 become the Summoner? When is it said or suggested?:smallconfused: I must've missed that.

[SolkaTruesilver]

If I remember right, it is said in Act II of D2 that he was a wizard who went to Tristam to fight Diablo, but came back.. transformed. He went in looking for the strange laboratory. Pay attention between monster rampage, mate :smallbiggrin:

[Morty]

If I remember right, it is said in Act II of D2 that he was a wizard who went to Tristam to fight Diablo, but came back.. transformed. He went in looking for the strange laboratory. Pay attention between monster rampage, mate :smallbiggrin:

I did, but it was loooong ago. And I sort of gathered that it was said in Act II, I just can't remember when and by whom.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I think it's Deckard Cain who talk to you about the Summoner, or the village's leader who is talking about him, not sure...

[factotum]

But don't the Major Demon need an avatar to incarnates in the physical world? Baal needed the Horadrim knight, Mephisto needed the Zakarim High Priest. I think Duriel took over a maggot..


The three Prime Evils needed that (Mephisto was Sankekur, the ex head of the Zakarum Temple, and Baal was obviously Tal Rasha), but that was probably more due to the Soulstones. There's no evidence that the Lesser Evils Duriel and Andariel required anything similar (they didn't have Soulstones, for a start).

[Winthur]

Andariel and Duriel were among the Lesser Evils (with Belial and Azmodan in the pack) that have banished the Prime Evils loooong ago. For Duriel is the Lord of Pain and Andariel is the Maiden of Anguish. So Rogue isn't Andariel. She's the weak, crappy Blood Raven that gets killed really easily (which is sad because you finish the game with like 25 level, and Raven is pummeled by some newbie... however, she didn't kill Diablo. But 1x level is easily doable in Catacombs/Caves). The Summoner is another pushover (really sad when you consider how powerful was the Sorcerer class) - one hit is enough to bring him to a number of HPs lower than 50%.

Oh, and it's Drognan and Jerhyn that tell you about the mysterious Summoner.

[Krade]

Well, if any of you are wanting to hop back on battle.net with Diablo I because of this, I have a couple characters and would love some company.

[kc0bbq]

Personally, I had it much easier with the Rogue then the Sorceror. Didn't need to worry overly much about switching spells, just grab the biggest bow you can and spam arrows until whatever's in your way is a pincushion. Found the Sorceror far too fragile, and the Warrior took too long to reach the spell-casting monsters.Sorcerer had bugged mana shield that made him far more durable than any other class. Warriors had great mobility if you knew how to telekill, but there was a technique that had to be learned through doing.

Getting your third dot in warrior or rogue was something special because of the tactics involved if you weren't abusing certain game mechanics like light radius. Granted, for a warrior a lot of it involved starting new games over and over until a KSoH of a good base showed up at the blacksmith, but still.

[Malek]

The three Prime Evils needed that (Mephisto was Sankekur, the ex head of the Zakarum Temple, and Baal was obviously Tal Rasha), but that was probably more due to the Soulstones. There's no evidence that the Lesser Evils Duriel and Andariel required anything similar (they didn't have Soulstones, for a start).
From what I remember the problem was that Prime Evils neded to spend a lot of energy to manifest in human world and possessing people was a way to lessen that burden. Originally (Diablo 1) the soulstones were a prison for Prime Evils and Diablo was freed when Lazarus broke Diablo's soulstone (source - Diablo 1 manual) so at best that stone taken from Diablo's head at the ending could be a shard only. In Diablo 2 they retconned the story so that Soulstones never trully served their purpose but were corrupted from the very beggining thanks to Izual and used to completly rid manifesting Prime Evils from the cost of staying here.

It is also worth noting that according to D1 manual there shouldn't be any "Baal's Soulstone" - only shards of it as Baal broke it to pieces (that's why Tal Rasha got imrisoned alongside of Baal originally - because the shattered soulstone alone wasn't enough to imprison Lord of Destruction).

[NEO|Phyte]

It is also worth noting that according to D1 manual there shouldn't be any "Baal's Soulstone" - only shards of it as Baal broke it to pieces (that's why Tal Rasha got imrisoned alongside of Baal originally - because the shattered soulstone alone wasn't enough to imprison Lord of Destruction).

If you look, Baal's soulstone necklace is a LOT smaller than what Diablo has sticking out of his forehead.

[Vonriel]

The Summoner is another pushover (really sad when you consider how powerful was the Sorcerer class) - one hit is enough to bring him to a number of HPs lower than 50%.

He's only a pushover if you're careful. First time I got to him, he took me down in like three shots, because I was busy slogging through his minions and didn't think he'd be that powerful. Three spells later, I was a smoking corpse. :smalltongue:

[Cubey]

Getting your third dot in warrior or rogue was something special because of the tactics involved if you weren't abusing certain game mechanics like light radius. Granted, for a warrior a lot of it involved starting new games over and over until a KSoH of a good base showed up at the blacksmith, but still.

Bolding done by me. I'm not an expert on Diablo 1 mechanics, but can you explain what's light radius have to do with... well, anything apart from the screen being slightly less dark? Does it affect the enemy aggro range or something like that?

[Winterwind]

He's only a pushover if you're careful. First time I got to him, he took me down in like three shots, because I was busy slogging through his minions and didn't think he'd be that powerful. Three spells later, I was a smoking corpse. :smalltongue:He is, especially on higher difficulties, the prime example of a glass cannon. I even suspect they have him as illustration in all noteworthy encyclopaedias of the world right next to the term 'glass cannon'. :smallbiggrin:
While he goes down in just a few hits, if you do not field excellent resistances and high hit points against him, he is perfectly capable of doing just the same to you. Not on Normal, maybe, but later on...

As for the main topic, I concur; compared to the innumerable hordes of succubi and evil wizards you have to face to get to him, Big D is a minor challenge at best.


Bolding done by me. I'm not an expert on Diablo 1 mechanics, but can you explain what's light radius have to do with... well, anything apart from the screen being slightly less dark? Does it affect the enemy aggro range or something like that?Yes, it does; at least, so I heard, never stopped to actually check whether it's true.

[Colmarr]

I assume that when posters refer to "abusing the light radius", they are referring to the process of moving around 1 square at a time (so as to only trigger small groups of foes) and then moving away to ensure that you don't accidentally trigger more.

The tactic could reliably reduce groups of 10+ monsters to three or more much smaller groups.

I'm not ashamed to say that I used it liberally when playing D1.

[SolkaTruesilver]

No me, though. I remember the most frightening experience of D1 I had: it was a random version of the evil wizard, who shot Lightning bolts rather than Fireballs..

Oh.. my... god... I saw the entire screen filling in by 30 wizards casting nonstop lightning bolts. There was no way to get out of this lightning destruction!!

First time my fighter ever used a bow, lol.

[kc0bbq]

I assume that when posters refer to "abusing the light radius", they are referring to the process of moving around 1 square at a time (so as to only trigger small groups of foes) and then moving away to ensure that you don't accidentally trigger more.Light radius affected the range enemies would notice you from. Enough low level cursed items with -xx% to light radius and you were pretty well safe from attack unless you touched them.

It's on the list of potentially useful information, such as randomization bugs. An example of that would be the shrine that raises all spells one level except for one, which it lowers. It always lowered mana shield, IIRC. Or the hat with life draining on it that you could only find from champions on level 3 or 4 on Nightmare multiplayer (Jester's Cap? It's been so long, can't remember.).

I spent too much time on the DSF B.net channel.

[Malek]

No me, though. I remember the most frightening experience of D1 I had: it was a random version of the evil wizard, who shot Lightning bolts rather than Fireballs..

Oh.. my... god... I saw the entire screen filling in by 30 wizards casting nonstop lightning bolts. There was no way to get out of this lightning destruction!!

First time my fighter ever used a bow, lol.
Woah, you met that charged bolt fireing breed of mages? Congrats - I never, ever, ever managed to meet one.

[Cubey]

Light radius affected the range enemies would notice you from. Enough low level cursed items with -xx% to light radius and you were pretty well safe from attack unless you touched them.

It's on the list of potentially useful information, such as randomization bugs. An example of that would be the shrine that raises all spells one level except for one, which it lowers. It always lowered mana shield, IIRC. Or the hat with life draining on it that you could only find from champions on level 3 or 4 on Nightmare multiplayer (Jester's Cap? It's been so long, can't remember.).

I spent too much time on the DSF B.net channel.

Beautiful. It shows that Diablo, or at least Diablo 1 with its clear partition of the gaming area into squares, is the spiritual successor to rogue-likes. It's not abuse, it's a feature!

And I'm not being sarcastic here. It really is fun... as long as it's not multiplayer. Then it's just playing dirty. Probably why Diablo II, with its stress on multiplayer games, doesn't have many of the previous game's mechanisms, like shrines doing stuff that changes your stats permanently or cursed items dropping.

[AslanCross]

The rouge can pick Diablo off from the distance, but if she gets in melee range... it's a real mascara...

My Rogue got such crappy bows that I had to use melee weapons instead (since it was a waste not to use Griswold's Edge and Stormshield while I had them). She tore up Diablo pretty easily in melee, especially in a later game when she was lucky enough to pick up the Demonspike Coat (unique full plate, and yes, along with his unique helmet) from Lachdanan when I completed his quest, and later a Master's Sword of the Heavens. She became a melee Rogue instead.

In fact, I never got a unique bow beyond the Black Oak Bow. This vexed me immensely. I would grind for hours hoping to get Eaglehorn or Windforce, but alas, no luck.

[Winterwind]

While I haven't ever played a sufficiently high level rogue to be able to tell for sure (I don't know why; for some reason, she just never was able to hold my interest), I heard melee rogues can be exceedingly effective, since with the massive Dexterity they can have they do not have to rely as much on To Hit enhancing items as warriors, and their Armour rating can get higher as well.

[Vonriel]

My Rogue got such crappy bows that I had to use melee weapons instead (since it was a waste not to use Griswold's Edge and Stormshield while I had them). She tore up Diablo pretty easily in melee, especially in a later game when she was lucky enough to pick up the Demonspike Coat (unique full plate, and yes, along with his unique helmet) from Lachdanan when I completed his quest, and later a Master's Sword of the Heavens. She became a melee Rogue instead.

In fact, I never got a unique bow beyond the Black Oak Bow. This vexed me immensely. I would grind for hours hoping to get Eaglehorn or Windforce, but alas, no luck.

I believe the quote was making fun of the fact that the poster misspelled "rogue" as "rouge" :smalltongue:

[hamishspence]

Actually, the spike sticking out of forehead of Diablo, and earlier, the wanderer, is a shard. Lazarus shattered the Stone to allow Diablo to try and possess Leoric. It failed.

[Pronounceable]

I have a great rogue that I can't continue with. Because she has more money than inventory can hold... She's cleared the game except for Diablo's room (for the 4th time) but I can't bring myself to leave those thousands of $$$ behind. Having acquired awesome gear already, I can't spend that money either. The only possible way is getting something from Wirt. Why does that bastard has only one item at a time? I spent an hour changing his item, but everything he ever had was inferior.

NOOOOOOOOOO!

I can't "upgrade" to Hellfire to double gold capacity either, because doing that removes my phat loot. And I'll be damned if I leave my Windforce behind...

To get back on topic, Diablo is a pushover for rogue as well. All you really need is good fire resistance and a knockback bow. And a casting of mana shield if you can't be bothered to have any challenge.

[Winterwind]

Well, have you already maxed out all your stats and learnt as many spells as you could on as high a level as possible? That's one massive money sink; elixirs and books can eat up treasure faster than a rabid scavenger devours a juicy peasant. :smallwink:

[DrizztFan24]

Man, reading this has me stoked for D3....

[Sir Enigma]

Did Hellfire make Diablo significantly harder? I had the same experience as a lot of others are mentioning - got a sorcerer down to Diablo and killed him (in normal) with Holy Bolt for a cost of about 1 mana potion; but recently I retried it in Hellfire, and my sorcerer has been doing great against everything else but Diablo just tears him apart, regardless of what I try.

[Winterwind]

Diablo in Hellfire has twice the hit points of normal Diablo, 20 AC more and a resistance to Holy Bolt.

[DrizztFan24]

So you just spam some chain lightning while he is standing in front of his goons....yay for crossfire!