Kubota's bluffing.

[Jayngfet]

I wonder if Kubota seriously thinks that any sort of deal will work? The Kato's are behind elan, all his men are dead, and even if he did have an antidote elan could use the typical adventurers method of "kill it and take it's stuff".

[SteveMB]

I'm pretty sure that Kubota intends to double-cross anyone foolish enough to accept his "deal"....

[Jayngfet]

I'm pretty sure that Kubota intends to double-cross anyone foolish enough to accept his "deal"....

With what? His no ranged needle to the guy aware of it and has a spell to counter it?

[Red XIV]

Now, perhaps Elan should have a spell to counter it, but remember. It's Elan. Perhaps he's not as bad as Belkar when it comes to not knowing his own class abilities, but he's still an idiot.

[Greg]

Now, perhaps Elan should have a spell to counter it, but remember. It's Elan. Perhaps he's not as bad as Belkar when it comes to not knowing his own class abilities, but he's still an idiot.
Dashing Swordsman, remember. Always has the right class feature to advance the plot (immunity to shattered glass etc).

[Hectonkhyres]

Huh. Elan is connected to a fleet of ships filled to the brim with clerics and pallies... one of whom I am damn sure will have the ability to fix our little green hottie. These bastards could spam delay poison, throw a billion healing and stat-restoration spells at her, and even resurrect her should it come down to that. Mister Nasty-McSchemer doesn't have a very good bargaining chip there once you start thinking about it.

[GSFB]

And Kubota probably has his own contingency plans for resurrection should Elan kill him.

That's the major problem with D&D... once you get to a level where death is no longer a deterrant, all conventional plots and strategies go out the window.

What Elan needs to do is not only kill Kubota, but utterly destroy his corpse to prevent mere raising AND use Durkon or V to invoke some powerful joojoo to keep his soul from leaving the lower planes (where, apparently, he has contacts, mind you!). Make it so Kubota's soul requires a Wish or Miracle to return (and even then, there ARE some spell casters who can do it... if they want to...).

[Sstoopidtallkid]

And Kubota probably has his own contingency plans for resurrection should Elan kill him.

That's the major problem with D&D... once you get to a level where death is no longer a deterrant, all conventional plots and strategies go out the window.

What Elan needs to do is not only kill Kubota, but utterly destroy his corpse to prevent mere raising AND use Durkon or V to invoke some powerful joojoo to keep his soul from leaving the lower planes (where, apparently, he has contacts, mind you!). Make it so Kubota's soul requires a Wish or Miracle to return (and even then, there ARE some spell casters who can do it... if they want to...).Why bother? Deal non-lethal, then get him imprisoned. Not 'put him in prison', but actually Imprisoned.

Or heck, just have V. turn him to stone, then throw him off the boat. Can't be brought back if you aren't dead. :smallbiggrin:

[snoopy13a]

And Kubota probably has his own contingency plans for resurrection should Elan kill him.



Honorable burial at sea?

Also, the problem with contingency plans involving evil characters is their capacity to betray each other:

Kubota: Evil Lord, if I die here are the diamonds needed to bring me back
Evil Lord: Okay Doaky
*Kubota dies*
Evil Lord: Hmm, with Kubota gone, there's more power for me, plus I get to keep all of the diamonds he gave me.

[David Argall]

I wonder if Kubota seriously thinks that any sort of deal will work? The Kato's are behind elan, all his men are dead, and even if he did have an antidote elan could use the typical adventurers method of "kill it and take it's stuff".

Kubota is highly intelligent. He knows what he did, and the situation. He is smiling happily. By all the signs, he does seriously think Elan will take his deal or whatever. And he is [almost] right too.

Our writer does pay attention to the D&D rules, but he does not worship them. In fact he violates them on a regular basis, particularly when plot is concerned. Here, we require a dramatic moment where the hero is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the D&D rules don't allow the plot to show this, so much the worse for the rules. So almost all of the ideas suggested simply will not work [well, except for those that Elan, being Elan, simply forgets he can try]. The situation is dire, and there is only one way out [which we will find out what it is in a few days.]

[Chronos]

Here, we require a dramatic moment where the hero is stuck between a rock and a hard place. If the D&D rules don't allow the plot to show this, so much the worse for the rules.Except that dramatic situations where the hero is stuck between a rock and a hard place usually end with the hero choosing choice C, that doesn't get stuck with either. If the D&D rules are what enables choice C here, then they're working for the drama, not against it.

[Zolem]

*sigh* It's simple;

Kabuto: I don't ahve the antidote one me, but let me go and I'll tell you where it is.

Elan: I ahve no choice, I have to let you go to save her, cause the hero always saves the girl.

Kabuto: *while escaping* And now to lay out my evil plan for next week. What monster should I use?

[Hectonkhyres]

Kubota is highly intelligent. He knows what he did, and the situation. He is smiling happily. By all the signs, he does seriously think Elan will take his deal or whatever. And he is [almost] right too.
Intelligent... but plot bound.
This could be quite the problem for him.

[SPoD]

I don't think it's really a "deal" that he's offering.

I think it's simply, "It will take you longer to kill me/capture me than the 10 rounds it will take Therkla to die by poison. You can fight me, or you can help her try to make her second poison saving throw with your bard song and whatever else you can come up with, but you can't do both in 10 rounds. And since you're the Good Guy, you will choose to save her and let me walk out of here unharmed."

And once he's back on his ship and out of harm's way, I'm sure Plan B begins, whatever that is.

[Pandaren]

I recall.....V.

That is all.


Wait. No. She'll be followed by Durokan and the others.

[Mauve Shirt]

I recall.....V.

That is all.


Wait. No. She'll be followed by Durokan and the others.

Dorukan?! Well that would solve all our problems! :smallamused:

Nah, V wouldn't bother helping, he refuses to waste his not inconsiderably immense powers helping others.

[Zolem]

Dorukan?! Well that would solve all our problems! :smallamused:

Nah, V wouldn't bother helping, he refuses to waste his not inconsiderably immense powers helping others.

Unless Elan bluffs up some high XP for the 'enemy leader story resolution bonus.'.

[Theodoriph]

I wonder if Kubota seriously thinks that any sort of deal will work? The Kato's are behind elan, all his men are dead, and even if he did have an antidote elan could use the typical adventurers method of "kill it and take it's stuff".

I'm not sure if Kubota has the antidote with him at the moment. If he was smart, it's hidden somewhere that only he knows about. And since he seems to be, I reckon that's the case. He can then try to bargain his freedom (he needs to go get it after all) in return for the antidote.

[Jorrath_Zek]

What plan B?

Kubota has no reason to think that Plan "A" wasn't a success...

Plan "A" - Demon Kills OotS and Hinjo; Take Care of Therkla, because she betrayed him. Become Lord of Blue... He knows Elan will choose to save the girl, so he's won.

Unless a super-powerful Pit Feind is some how defeated, or Elan betrays his character and chooses to let the innocent die...

So, now he simply leaves Elan to the choice he must take, and returns to his ship to await news of his ascention.

[dps]

I don't think it's really a "deal" that he's offering.

I think it's simply, "It will take you longer to kill me/capture me than the 10 rounds it will take Therkla to die by poison. You can fight me, or you can help her try to make her second poison saving throw with your bard song and whatever else you can come up with, but you can't do both in 10 rounds. And since you're the Good Guy, you will choose to save her and let me walk out of here unharmed."

And once he's back on his ship and out of harm's way, I'm sure Plan B begins, whatever that is.

I think that Kubota has to have more than that in mind. That leaves him worse off than if he had simply agreed to do what Therkla wanted him to do--worse off because now Elan and Therkla (if she survives) will have no reason to persuade Hinjo to let Kubota go, and there'll be either 3 or 4 good witnesses against him--though either or both of Elan or Therkla might decide to take Kubota out instead of letting Hinjo arrest him.

[Corwin Weber]

Or Elan could just help her with his bard song..... while tossing his sword to the Katos.........

What, you think it has to be Elan that kills him? Kubota has already mentioned what a lousy fighter he is.....

[Enlong]

"And after Hinjo's overzealous bodyguard killed the rogue samurai and poisoned that unidentifiable ninja, he turned on me. I was barely able to escape with my life, much less save the Katos from suffering the same fate as the ninja."

Think about it.

[krossbow]

Kubota has already mentioned what a lousy fighter he is.....



Ever see the prestige? Sometimes people live their deception; like the insanely strong chinese "cripple" who lives the life of an invalid so no one would suspect how he does his magic.

[Chronos]

"And after Hinjo's overzealous bodyguard killed the rogue samurai and poisoned that unidentifiable ninja, he turned on me. I was barely able to escape with my life, much less save the Katos from suffering the same fate as the ninja."Which I'm sure would go over very well, once the Katos testify on who was actually trying to kill them. Remember, Hinjo's just looking for an excuse to convict Kubota, at this point: Three or possibly four witnesses, two of them nobles, would certainly be enough for him.

[Enlong]

Which I'm sure would go over very well, once the Katos testify on who was actually trying to kill them. Remember, Hinjo's just looking for an excuse to convict Kubota, at this point: Three or possibly four witnesses, two of them nobles, would certainly be enough for him.


"And after Hinjo's overzealous bodyguard killed the rogue samurai and poisoned that unidentifiable ninja, he turned on me. I was barely able to escape with my life, much less save the Katos from suffering the same fate as the ninja."
Emphasis mine. His plan could involve pricking the Katos as he makes an escape (after suffering a visible rapier wound, of course), ditching the ring, and then going to raise the alarm against Elan. Then it would be his word against Elan's.

O-course, that's just my take on it.

[slayerx]

Huh. Elan is connected to a fleet of ships filled to the brim with clerics and pallies... one of whom I am damn sure will have the ability to fix our little green hottie. These bastards could spam delay poison, throw a billion healing and stat-restoration spells at her, and even resurrect her should it come down to that. Mister Nasty-McSchemer doesn't have a very good bargaining chip there once you start thinking about it.

First, nearly all of the clerics and pallies were killed in azure city... Second you assume they high enough level to cast the needed spells and have anti-poison spells prepared...


Or Elan could just help her with his bard song..... while tossing his sword to the Katos.........
The Katos are a little tied up at the moment

[brilliantlight]

What plan B?

Kubota has no reason to think that Plan "A" wasn't a success...

Plan "A" - Demon Kills OotS and Hinjo; Take Care of Therkla, because she betrayed him. Become Lord of Blue... He knows Elan will choose to save the girl, so he's won.

Unless a super-powerful Pit Feind is some how defeated, or Elan betrays his character and chooses to let the innocent die...

So, now he simply leaves Elan to the choice he must take, and returns to his ship to await news of his ascention.


What super powerful pit fiend? The devil in question is FAR too stupid to be a pit fiend.

[brilliantlight]

First, nearly all of the clerics and pallies were killed in azure city... Second you assume they high enough level to cast the needed spells and have anti-poison spells prepared...



:durkon: is with them. He can cast raise dead and if he doesn't have it today he can have it tomorrow.

[Enlong]

What super powerful pit fiend? The devil in question is FAR too stupid to be a pit fiend.

Maybe it's a Balor(og). You can tell 'cause it has wings.

[brilliantlight]

Maybe it's a Balor(og). You can tell 'cause it has wings.

Too smart and wrong alignment.

[Theodoriph]

It was obviously a pit fiend.

It was obviously not a RAW pit fiend. It was heavily modified.

[kpenguin]

Maybe it's a Balor(og). You can tell 'cause it has wings.

No! You don't know what you've just unleashed!

[Enlong]

No! You don't know what you've just unleashed!

Oh yes, I know exactly what I've done. MWAHAHAHAHA!!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Actually, after re-reading, that doesn't look like Con poison. It could be Str or Dex, or it could have paralyzed her, but Con damage doesn't knock you off your feet till you're dead. Granted, this has been contradicted in-comic by Elan's earlier poisoning, but I felt it was worth mentioning in this case.

[brilliantlight]

It was obviously a pit fiend.

It was obviously not a RAW pit fiend. It was heavily modified.

Why? There other devils that could fit the picture not talking home brew devils. The second is the most likely.

[Zeful]

Elan's close enough to cut the Katos free, but is angry. I think that it's more like elan stabs Kabuto in the middle of his monologue and loots his corpse for the antidote, which isn't there.

[AKA_Bait]

Why? There other devils that could fit the picture not talking home brew devils. The second is the most likely.

Which other ones? I'm just curious here.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning that the stats in the MM and SRD for monsters are the average stats for monsters of that race. There are going to be smarter and dumber examples of each kind. I lean toward Pit Fiend here, just a particulary stupid one.

[SteveMB]

Actually, after re-reading, that doesn't look like Con poison. It could be Str or Dex, or it could have paralyzed her, but Con damage doesn't knock you off your feet till you're dead. Granted, this has been contradicted in-comic by Elan's earlier poisoning

After being hit with Constitution poison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0234.html), he collapsed but was able to limp along with Roy supporting him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0235.html).

[Theodoriph]

Why? There other devils that could fit the picture not talking home brew devils. The second is the most likely.


a) There's no other devil in the MM of BoVD that would be that much of a challenge. A standard pitfiend is a CR 20. The next highest is a Horned Devil and Ghargatula at CR 16, which would be a reasonable opponent for the party of Hinjo, Lien, V, Durkon and Elan.

b) It looks just like a large pitfiend, down to the fiery hands like the picture in the MM and the two fangs (top and bottom) larger than all the other teeth. The Horned Devil at CR 16 only looks vaguely humanoid. Our little friend here is quite humanoid (The Ghargatula looks like a giant blob with a huge mouth).

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/MM35_gallery/MM35_PG57.jpg

c) It casts meteor swarm.

Now of course he's not a RAW pit fiend. That would be insurmountable for our little friends. But this pit fiend was told by his mother that he was an embrassment and he thought Qarr was bluffing, so I wouldn't be too surprised to find out if a couple of his stats are way below par and he never learned some of a pit fiend's abilities.

[The Wanderer]

I don't think it's really a "deal" that he's offering.

I think it's simply, "It will take you longer to kill me/capture me than the 10 rounds it will take Therkla to die by poison. You can fight me, or you can help her try to make her second poison saving throw with your bard song and whatever else you can come up with, but you can't do both in 10 rounds. And since you're the Good Guy, you will choose to save her and let me walk out of here unharmed."

And once he's back on his ship and out of harm's way, I'm sure Plan B begins, whatever that is.

SPoD is right yet again...