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Grynning
2008-09-16, 10:26 PM
So, I just got my copy a few hours ago, and I think this book ROCKS. I think it does a lot to restore the general "feel" of D&D to 4E, and I really like pretty much everything I've read so far. Alchemy is playable and fun, the rules for scaling up existing items rather than replacing them makes perfect sense (and is almost identical to the house rule I was going to use anyways.../tinfoilhat...), and they brought back some of the silly exotic weapons (yes, you can have your Darth Maul double swords again).

I do have a couple of nits to pick:

A) Some of the Superior weapons are a bit TOO superior IMO, definitely worth the feat, which means we will see a lot of people using them in powergamey builds (Execution axe, I'm lookin at you...).

B) No new mundane armor types - all the armor presented are new types of masterwork armor, neat, but a little disappointing - I want my chain shirt back, dammit.

C) A few of the item powers have some funky wording that might mean they can be broken, or need errata/FAQ rulings to work correctly at least (like the Blue Dragonscale armor's power - as written it seems as if it will hit allies if there are no enemies about).

Anyways, this thread is meant for general discussion about the book, any specific items you think are really cool or possibly overpowered/broken/wonky, etc, or counter-opinions to my own.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-09-16, 10:27 PM
So... what do "masterwork" items do now?

Grynning
2008-09-16, 10:30 PM
Masterwork armor is just armor with a higher base AC bonus than it's normal equivalent and a "minimum enhancement bonus" - meaning, if you find "Masterwork armor x" it will always be enchanted with at least that bonus. It's essentially a way WOTC came up with to scale up AC without having to make the enhancement bonuses go over 6.

They all have some flavor attached to them and the new ones add a small bonus to a Non-AC defense - cloth adds to Will, Leather to Reflex, Hide to Fort, Chain to Will, and Plate give damage resistances.

Example: If you find +3 Chainmail - it won't be "Chainmail" - it will maybe be, "Braidmail" with a base AC of +8 (so the armor gives you a total of +11).

Edit: Guess I didn't really answer your question completely - there are no non-magical masterwork items anymore - anything that gives additional bonuses will be magical.

Hatu
2008-09-16, 10:41 PM
Edit: Guess I didn't really answer your question completely - there are no non-magical masterwork items anymore - anything that gives additional bonuses will be magical.

But didn't those masterwork categories already exist in the PHB? They were very poorly described, but they did add extra AC as the enchantment on the armor grew. What makes the ones in AV any different?

-H

Grynning
2008-09-16, 10:41 PM
They have different flavor text, and as I said above, they add to other defenses as well.

Ent
2008-09-16, 11:42 PM
At first glance, it's nice but it could have easily fit into the Core books.

Edea
2008-09-16, 11:45 PM
Bloodclaw weapons, plox.

ColdSepp
2008-09-16, 11:56 PM
I am giddy about the khopesh. My DB Paladin was going the Axe route, and my only complaint was that I missed out on HBO.

And now, there is an weapon that is both an Axe and Heavyblade. The trade off? It's d8 compared to a waraxes d10. On the up side, it's Brutal 1. And it isn't a superior weapon, so no need to take a feat!

My other huge love is the Throwing Shield. No need to take Quick Draw to switch to Throwing Axes, in those rare times you need to use ranged weapons.

Jokes
2008-09-17, 12:30 AM
I had to order mine from NSW (interstate), so it might be another couple of days before I get it. Does it have a Deck of Many things? Any other cool wondrous items?

Edea
2008-09-17, 12:32 AM
Oh, yeah, the Veteran's Armor is a bit wtf, and the Orb of Ultimate Imposition is pretty much required for Sleep abusers.

Gralamin
2008-09-17, 01:06 AM
Oh, yeah, the Veteran's Armor is a bit wtf, and the Orb of Ultimate Imposition is pretty much required for Sleep abusers.

Orb of Ultimate Imposition seems broken to me. Saving throws don't scale at all, so a scaling Penalty makes very little sense, in addition to the normal Penalty. Lets follow some maths.

The base chance of making a saving throw is 55% (Fails on a 1 to 9)
An Elite creature has a +2 Bonus, or a 65% chance of making it. (Fails on a 1 to 7)
A Solo creature has a +5 Bonus, or a 80% chance of making it. (Fails on a 1 to 4)

An Orb wizard is likely to start with about a 16 in wisdom, and increase that at every opportunity (4, 8, 11, 14, 18, 21, 24, 28)

An Orb of ultimate imposition (1/day) increases the penalty by 1 per 5n-2 levels, where n is the enhancement bonus. (That is, 3, 8, 13, 18, 23, 28)

Following these formulas we get the following values
{table="head"]Level|Penalty|Item Pen.|Creature%|Elite%|Solo%
1|3|0|40|50|65
2|3|0|40|50|65
3|3|1|35|45|60
4|3|1|35|45|60
5|3|1|35|45|60
6|3|1|35|45|60
7|3|1|35|45|60
8|4|2|25|35|50
9|4|2|25|35|50
10|4|2|25|35|50
11|4|2|25|35|50
12|4|2|25|35|50
13|4|3|20|30|45
14|5|3|15|25|40
15|5|3|15|25|40
16|5|3|15|25|40
17|5|3|15|25|40
18|5|4|10|20|35
19|5|4|10|20|35
20|5|4|10|20|35
21|6|4|5|15|30
22|6|4|5|15|30
23|6|5|0|10|25
24|6|5|0|10|25
25|6|5|0|10|25
26|6|5|0|10|25
27|6|5|0|10|25
28|7|6|-10|0|15
29|7|6|-10|0|15
30|7|6|-10|0|15[/table]
What does this mean?
Approaching level 28, the chance of the effect never ending approaches 100%. With a power such as sleep, this means you can effectively take things out of the fight for the duration of the fight. In other words, Orb of Ultimate Imposition recreates Instant Death Spells.

Douglas
2008-09-17, 01:20 AM
Your numbers in the chart are off by 10%. Unless you included the penalty for Spell Focus and just didn't mention it, in which case they're accurate.

Regardless, that does look a bit broken.

Edea
2008-09-17, 01:48 AM
Also, the Earthroot Staff enhances a Wizard's petrification powers, by doing the exact same thing; penalizing saving throws against them. "Umm, Wizards don't have any petrification powers." Yeah, I know...not yet :DDDDDD. Now imagine an Orbizard getting a hold of such a power when it's published in the (hopefully near) future XD.

Gralamin
2008-09-17, 01:56 AM
Your numbers in the chart are off by 10%. Unless you included the penalty for Spell Focus and just didn't mention it, in which case they're accurate.

Regardless, that does look a bit broken.

Err oops, screwed up my formula slightly. Fixing now.

ghost_warlock
2008-09-17, 08:42 AM
I'm looking at the Bloodcurse Rod and drooling...especially since my 'lock recently picked up a Rod of Corruption. :smallamused:

I'm going to have to figure out something else to do with all the minor actions I'm going to be saving. :smalleek:

Matthew
2008-09-17, 08:45 AM
Hey, the charging on horseback rules might actually make sense as written! (Take that, 3e!)

AKA_Bait
2008-09-17, 08:58 AM
Humm. I may need to go pick me up a copy of this...

Tengu_temp
2008-09-17, 09:19 AM
New masterwork armor gives an AC boost to characters wearing heavy armor. Especially if you buy the Agile Armor enchantment for it too.

Overall, the only thing I don't like about this book is the return of silly double weapons. The rest looks very good, and as a DM I'll surely use it a lot when giving treasure to my players. I like the rules for improving/swapping enchantments, too.

Anyone noticed anything broken beyond recognition?

ImperiousLeader
2008-09-17, 12:25 PM
Any PC that can use Large weapons is going to want an Execution Axe. It's d12 Brutal 2 as a medium, which is decent, but once it becomes 2d6 Brutal 2, your min damage is 6 ... Add Vorpal to those rerolls and your dice explosion can pretty impressive.

RTGoodman
2008-09-17, 12:33 PM
Any PC that can use Large weapons is going to want an Execution Axe. It's d12 Brutal 2 as a medium, which is decent, but once it becomes 2d6 Brutal 2, your min damage is 6 ... Add Vorpal to those rerolls and your dice explosion can pretty impressive.

Good gods, I need that axe for my Bugbear "Barbarian." Is it a superior weapon, though, or just a military one? Because if it's just military, that looks a little overpowered or edging on really broken...

Also, question to Edea - what about the Veteran's Armor is "a bit wtf?" What does it do, and is it insanely broken or insanely useless?

ColdSepp
2008-09-17, 12:49 PM
Good gods, I need that axe for my Bugbear "Barbarian." Is it a superior weapon, though, or just a military one? Because if it's just military, that looks a little overpowered or edging on really broken...

Also, question to Edea - what about the Veteran's Armor is "a bit wtf?" What does it do, and is it insanely broken or insanely useless?

It's Superior. And, I think Veterans is worth the price, possibly to good. Using an action point to regain a daily seems very good.

kc0bbq
2008-09-17, 12:58 PM
It's Superior. And, I think Veterans is worth the price, possibly to good. Using an action point to regain a daily seems very good.I don't know if it's too good. It's a nice versatility, but if your DM uses monsters to their fullest APs are really important.

AKA_Bait
2008-09-17, 01:07 PM
I don't know if it's too good. It's a nice versatility, but if your DM uses monsters to their fullest APs are really important.

Still though, you can regain AP's over serveral encounters in the same day but you can't do so with daily powers.

ColdSepp
2008-09-17, 01:56 PM
I don't know if it's too good. It's a nice versatility, but if your DM uses monsters to their fullest APs are really important.

By the book, you reach a milestone every two encounters, and get another AP. Since you can only use 1 AP an encounter, there is little point saving two for the later, tougher fight. With Veterens, you can use a Daily in your second encounter, and regain it.
No need to worry about saving it for the Solo or Elite that may be around the corner. Particularly if you have Dailys that are Reliable or have a Miss effect.

Mando Knight
2008-09-17, 02:19 PM
My other huge love is the Throwing Shield. No need to take Quick Draw to switch to Throwing Axes, in those rare times you need to use ranged weapons.

You know who (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainAmerica) they put that item in there for. Bonus points for making it red-and-white striped with a white star on a blue circle in the center.

ColdSepp
2008-09-17, 02:27 PM
You know who (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainAmerica) they put that item in there for. Bonus points for making it red-and-white striped with a white star on a blue circle in the center.

Recoil Shield looks nice to. Get hit, knock them prone. No save, no attack roll. More fun if they are dazed.

Edea
2008-09-17, 06:10 PM
Another wtf item is Bonegrim Armor. Who wrote this shi, seriously? I would be highly pissed if this plate got put on my character (requires Remove Affliction using the armor's level as a negative adjustment to the Heal check to take it off). It seems to be the only Cursed item in the AV.

Tengu_temp
2008-09-17, 06:15 PM
You know who (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptainAmerica) they put that item in there for. Bonus points for making it red-and-white striped with a white star on a blue circle in the center.

It can look any other way?

Also, Summoning Armor reminds me of superheroes. And magical girls. Okay, I'm an anime fan, who am I fooling, mostly of magical girls.

The weapon that deals extra damage on charging is pretty sweet. You know, stacking all the feats and items that give you bonuses on charging, and preferably being a swordmage who can use a lot of his powers when charging, would make a 4e equivalent of ubercharger.

ColdSepp
2008-09-17, 06:41 PM
Another wtf item is Bonegrim Armor. Who wrote this shi, seriously? I would be highly pissed if this plate got put on my character (requires Remove Affliction using the armor's level as a negative adjustment to the Heal check to take it off). It seems to be the only Cursed item in the AV.

Yes, but did you read what it does? It has /no negatives/, other then you can't remove it. Some people might love not needing to eat, drink, or sleep, plus some decent resistances. It's not much of a curse.

Gralamin
2008-09-17, 06:48 PM
Ritualist's Ring might help make Rituals useful. Too bad its a level 24 item.

Starsinger
2008-09-17, 07:24 PM
Apparatus of Kwalish.

Arbitrarity
2008-09-17, 07:38 PM
It's Superior. And, I think Veterans is worth the price, possibly to good. Using an action point to regain a daily seems very good.


Arcane Mastery [Wizard]
Prerequisite: Wizard
Benefit: Once per Encounter, you can spend an action point to regain the use of a daily wizard power you've already used today, instead of taking an action.

I assume that's a daily armor ability, but still. Duplicating an epic feat? What level is this stuff?

Starsinger
2008-09-17, 07:44 PM
Apparatus of Kwalish.

Actually screw that. Ornithopters. Hell yes.

RTGoodman
2008-09-17, 09:29 PM
Alright, I went back to B&N today and managed to pick up the book (after having to ask for it and have someone go get the single copy they ordered out of the back room :smallsigh:), but I'd say it was worth it. I've been reading start from the back (since I looked at the charts first to see the level distribution of items) and I've already seen a couple of really neat things.

Some things I've seen so far (though I've only gotten through consumable items and wondrous items):

-Foe Stone (level 12 item): Lets you, as an at-will minor action, learn a foe's vulnerabilities AND which defense of his is lowest - it's what the every 3.x Batman Wizard needs so he doesn't get accused of metagaming when he knows what spells to use against every foe!

-Apparently they thought people were to immature to use the phrase "immovable rod," so they changed it... to "immovable shaft." :smallsigh: Yeah, that'll fix the problem. I wonder if they've changed it to shaft of lordly might, too?

-I like that a lot of items say that if you've got more than one on you, NONE of them work (like the polyglot gems, the mummified hand that gives you an extra ring slot, etc.).

-I don't like the mechanics for bags of tricks - I think, for that price, getting one relatively sucky MINION in return for an item daily power (remember, 1 per day at low levels) sucks. I'd probably houserule you get 1d3 creatures, but each increase in level by 1 or something like that, unless someone can justify them by RAW.

-Eternal ChalkTM - it last forever for one week!

Grynning
2008-09-17, 09:42 PM
in return for an item daily power (remember, 1 per day at low levels)


I thought it was essentially one per milestone, since whenever you hit a milestone you get an item power use again (2nd paragraph after the uses per day).

And I don't think eternal chalk is totally lame, I mean, you never need to replace it.

That's also the worst thing about the Immovable Shaft/rod to me - the cost. You need at least two of them for the "ladder to anywhere" trick, and 13,000 gp is no small sum.

FoE
2008-09-17, 09:46 PM
I don't think eternal chalk is totally lame, I mean, you never need to replace it.

It's helpful if you're trying to get through a maze. Just keep marking the walls.

RTGoodman
2008-09-17, 09:57 PM
I thought it was essentially one per milestone, since whenever you hit a milestone you get an item power use again (2nd paragraph after the uses per day).

Yeah, forgot about that, but still - you get to summon TWO minions per day, and get no other item benefits! :smallyuk:


And I don't think eternal chalk is totally lame, I mean, you never need to replace it.

Oh, I like the idea and think it's terribly useful (I've always spent some money on chalk in 3.x games) - I just think the name is a misnomer. I read "eternal" and assume it's, you know, eternal.

Regarding the price of immovable shafts (giggity giggity?), I don't think the expense of them is unique; there are a LOT of items I've seen so far that are, in my opinion, not worth the cost. Specific examples to follow when I've gone through the whole thing.

quillbreaker
2008-09-18, 12:29 AM
Let the power creep begin!

It takes a party ten in-level (+0) encounters to gain a level by literal interpretation of the book. Time was, my players were challenged by a +0 encounter - now they blow through them. After a couple splat books get tossed in the mix, will they blow through +1 encounters?

If you can ever get to the point where you can trivialize a +5 encounter, you can double your rate of advancement. Anyone want to guess when that will be?

RTGoodman
2008-09-18, 01:10 AM
If you can ever get to the point where you can trivialize a +5 encounter, you can double your rate of advancement. Anyone want to guess when that will be?

There's some good stuff (and almost TOO good stuff) in AV, but I haven't noticed anything that's going to totally break the game yet. Yeah, Orb of Ultimate Imposition is really good, Veteran's Armor duplicates an Epic-level abilities, but I don't think power creep has really started (yet).

On the other hand, I think we do get to see a little bit of WotC's not-quite-perfect editing with the books. I've gone through most of it and found a few mistakes already. For instance, look at the Battleforged Shield:



Battleforged Shield -TAB--TAB--TAB-Level 4+
[...]
Power (Daily * Healing): Free action. Use this power
when an ally adjacent to you regains hit points. That ally
regains additional hit points as though it had spent a
healing surge.
Level 14: 2d8 hit points
Level 24: 3d8 hit points

So, is that supposed to be, at higher levels, your allies gains [Healing Surge + 2d8] hit points? Or do they instead gain JUST 2d8 hit points (instead of as if they had spent a healing surge)? Or, based on the pattern, is the text supposed to say your ally gets an extra 1d8 HP (instead of an extra amount equal to healing surge value)?

Also, they used the word "slided" somewhere. I may not have been an English major, but I'm pretty certain that's not even CLOSE to a real word. :smallwink:

Edea
2008-09-18, 01:30 AM
I assume that's a daily armor ability, but still. Duplicating an epic feat? What level is this stuff?

That's the real kicker, you can get this **** at level 1 (it's a level 2/7/12/17/22/27 piece), and it can be on any armor type. I've been in multiple fights where the normal AP effect wasn't really needed, but the dropping of a daily would have commenced -immediately- in the presence of this armor enchantment. Also, if this bypasses the 'one AP/encounter' rule, it's racing towards broken at ludicrous speed (I bloody well hope it doesn't, it better just be your AP for that combat).

"Unassuming armor," my ass.

Colmarr
2008-09-18, 02:21 AM
I assume that's a daily armor ability, but still. Duplicating an epic feat? What level is this stuff?

It doesn't "duplicate" the feat because the feat is /encounter and the armour ability is /day.

Secondly, comparing an armour ability to a feat is not apples and apples.

Veteran's doesn't strike me as overwhelmingly good when compared to other armours of similar levels (Stoneborn, Whiteflame, Screaming, Lifegiving) in the Adventurers' Vault.

I'm AFB at the moment, but don't most of the PHB PP action point bonuses refer to "using an action point to take an extra action"? If so, that's another limit on this armour. It stops you gaining those benefits.


Also, if this bypasses the 'one AP/encounter' rule...

What makes you think it does?

Tengu_temp
2008-09-18, 02:47 AM
Let the power creep begin!

It takes a party ten in-level (+0) encounters to gain a level by literal interpretation of the book. Time was, my players were challenged by a +0 encounter - now they blow through them. After a couple splat books get tossed in the mix, will they blow through +1 encounters?

If you can ever get to the point where you can trivialize a +5 encounter, you can double your rate of advancement. Anyone want to guess when that will be?

What examples make you think that? Mind posting them here? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91275)

ColdSepp
2008-09-18, 07:02 AM
I'm AFB at the moment, but don't most of the PHB PP action point bonuses refer to "using an action point to take an extra action"? If so, that's another limit on this armour. It stops you gaining those benefits.

What makes you think it does?

Well, even if it doesn't, it has a property that grants you bonuses when you spend an AP, in addition to the daily power.

Also, Edea, you can't get it till L2, unless you find it. Still very early.
(Sorry, don't know how to quote multiple posts.)

Blackfang108
2008-09-18, 09:02 AM
Also, they used the word "slided" somewhere. I may not have been an English major, but I'm pretty certain that's not even CLOSE to a real word. :smallwink:

Past tense of "to slide"

Erk
2008-09-18, 09:19 AM
That's the real kicker, you can get this **** at level 1 (it's a level 2/7/12/17/22/27 piece), and it can be on any armor type. I've been in multiple fights where the normal AP effect wasn't really needed, but the dropping of a daily would have commenced -immediately- in the presence of this armor enchantment. Also, if this bypasses the 'one AP/encounter' rule, it's racing towards broken at ludicrous speed (I bloody well hope it doesn't, it better just be your AP for that combat).

"Unassuming armor," my ass.

Given that 4e leans away from the whole "ye olde magick shoppe" tendencies of 3e (though some GMs still seem to like that shtuff), power creep by equipment is a little less of a concern than power creep by class. Think the Veteran's Armour sounds too good for level 2? Don't let your players find it until L7 or above. Voila, creeping solved.

That said, I'm as concerned about creep as anyone. I'll have to find a copy and leaf through this book :)

Gralamin
2008-09-18, 09:29 AM
Past tense of "to slide"

That would be slid.

Starsinger
2008-09-18, 09:31 AM
While I am slightly alarmed that there is the issue of creep, I'm mostly giddy because it gives me new toys to give out as a DM. Given the standard wealth model in 4e, you really don't get anything by player choice until you've disenchanted/sold 5 items of the same level (or the equivalent in gp/residuum). And really, by time someone has liquidated 2600 gp worth of items, for a suit of +1 Veteran's armor, I really don't care.

ColdSepp
2008-09-18, 09:37 AM
While I am slightly alarmed that there is the issue of creep, I'm mostly giddy because it gives me new toys to give out as a DM. Given the standard wealth model in 4e, you really don't get anything by player choice until you've disenchanted/sold 5 items of the same level (or the equivalent in gp/residuum). And really, by time someone has liquidated 2600 gp worth of items, for a suit of +1 Veteran's armor, I really don't care.

+1 Armor is only 520 GP
+2 Armor is 2600 GP

AKA_Bait
2008-09-18, 09:43 AM
Given that 4e leans away from the whole "ye olde magick shoppe" tendencies of 3e

It is? Humm. I thought the whole 'it takes knowing one ritiual and you can create any magical item you like provided you have the cash' thing made it even more 'ye olde magick shoppe' like than before.

As to Veteran's Armor. I wonder if they added that partially as a response dragging feeling a lot of players were complaining about that happens as a result of running out of daily and encounter powers. I noticed that there is also a dagger that gets you back an encounter power once a day.

ColdSepp
2008-09-18, 09:47 AM
It is? Humm. I thought the whole 'it takes knowing one ritiual and you can create any magical item you like provided you have the cash' thing made it even more 'ye olde magick shoppe' like than before.

As to Veteran's Armor. I wonder if they added that partially as a response dragging feeling a lot of players were complaining about that happens as a result of running out of daily and encounter powers. I noticed that there is also a dagger that gets you back an encounter power once a day.

And a wondrous item that does the same. This is why I want the armor. Because blowing a daily sucks.

Starsinger
2008-09-18, 09:56 AM
+1 Armor is only 520 GP
+2 Armor is 2600 GP

Yes. But when you sell/disenchant something you get 1/5 of its value. I mean if you really want that Veteran's armor I guess you can go for it.

technophile
2008-09-18, 10:05 AM
+1 Armor is only 520 GP
+2 Armor is 2600 GP
No, L1 armor is 520gp.
A +1 Veteran's Armor is apparently a L2 item, thus 2600gp. Just like, for example, +1 Curseforged Armor (from the PHB) is a L3 item, costing 3400gp.

Erk
2008-09-18, 10:07 AM
It is? Humm. I thought the whole 'it takes knowing one ritiual and you can create any magical item you like provided you have the cash' thing made it even more 'ye olde magick shoppe' like than before.Oh right, I forgot about that.... I reintroduced crafting skills and made enchantment harder before I started my first campaign. Carry on then.

Tengu_temp
2008-09-18, 10:18 AM
No, L1 armor is 520gp.
A +1 Veteran's Armor is apparently a L2 item, thus 2600gp. Just like, for example, +1 Curseforged Armor (from the PHB) is a L3 item, costing 3400gp.

Wrong.

A Magic Armor +1 is a level 1 item, and costs 360 gp.
A Veteran's Armor +1 is a level 2 item, and costs 520 gp.
A Magic Armor +2 is a level 6 item, and costs 1800 gp.
A Veteran's Armor +2 is a level 7 item, and costs 2600 gp.

Arbitrarity
2008-09-18, 11:16 AM
It is? Humm. I thought the whole 'it takes knowing one ritiual and you can create any magical item you like provided you have the cash' thing made it even more 'ye olde magick shoppe' like than before.


I dunno about that. The 1/5 value hurts, compared to the 1/2 sell rate in 3.X, or the XP return from artificer. While crafting doesn't cost XP, it costs you money, and a lot of it. And the limit on item levels. Treasure packages in the DMG hand out items above level, while crafting is just level, so if you craft, you're probably going to be down +1 to hit, damage, defenses, etc.

Although the minimal time is nice.

ColdSepp
2008-09-18, 11:25 AM
Wrong.

A Magic Armor +1 is a level 1 item, and costs 360 gp.
A Veteran's Armor +1 is a level 2 item, and costs 520 gp.
A Magic Armor +2 is a level 6 item, and costs 1800 gp.
A Veteran's Armor +2 is a level 7 item, and costs 2600 gp.

This. Which I was going to type up, but was saved the time. Thanks.

Hzurr
2008-09-18, 11:32 AM
That would be slid.

sliddeded.

kc0bbq
2008-09-18, 11:47 AM
That would be slid.Actually, slided is correct. This is like the difference between hung and hanged.

JaxGaret
2008-09-18, 12:19 PM
Time was, my players were challenged by a +0 encounter - now they blow through them.

Were there splatbooks released in the interim? No, your players simply learned how the system worked and adjusted their tactics to suit it.

Even-level encounters are supposed to be easy. It's +1 or more encounters that are supposed to be challenging.


If you can ever get to the point where you can trivialize a +5 encounter, you can double your rate of advancement. Anyone want to guess when that will be?

My guess is never.

Starsinger
2008-09-18, 12:25 PM
If you can ever get to the point where you can trivialize a +5 encounter, you can double your rate of advancement. Anyone want to guess when that will be?

Before you switch to 4th edition? :smalltongue: The thing is, if the creep gets that bad, hopefully monsters will creep as well.

Heliomance
2008-09-18, 12:26 PM
Personally I've never heard the word slided, and I'm also fairly sure it doesn't exist. The word hanged is only valid when referring to the execution method.

JaxGaret
2008-09-18, 12:37 PM
Slided ain't no gat dang word.

Blackfang108
2008-09-18, 01:02 PM
Slided ain't no gat dang word.

It is now.

It has been coined by Wizards of the Coast, and is therefore a word.

Main Entry: 2coin
Function: transitive verb
Date: 14th century
1 a: to make (a coin) especially by stamping : mint b: to convert (metal) into coins
2: create , invent <coin a phrase>


Merriam-Webster.

kc0bbq
2008-09-18, 01:13 PM
Personally I've never heard the word slided, and I'm also fairly sure it doesn't exist. The word hanged is only valid when referring to the execution method.You're confusing preferred usage with validity. It may not exist for anything else but it is correct for this, at least technically. Similar reasoning to why you can use the gerund form of slide, which isn't a normally used word, either, in this case. If you hang someone, it is a hanging. Likewise if you slide someone, it is a sliding. If it has happened, they have been hanged or slided.

It is really awkward sounding, which is a strike against it, though.

Kurald Galain
2008-09-18, 01:20 PM
I prefer "slide / slode / slidden" myself :smallbiggrin:

kjones
2008-09-18, 01:22 PM
How about "slit"?

kc0bbq
2008-09-18, 01:28 PM
I prefer "slide / slode / slidden" myself :smallbiggrin:
It's like in Restaurant at the End of the Universe where all the new tenses that had to be created in languages once time travel was invented!

He willen have slodden.

Isomenes
2008-09-18, 03:39 PM
Now I want to see an "Armor of Begging the Question," which forces opponents to waste their turns asking questions that are brought up by the appearance of the armor. Then the degeneration of the English language in D&D will be complete.

It's totally slid. It's a strong verb. Increase in weak dentals ("-ed" in the past tense) of strong verbs is a sign of ignorance, not correctness.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-18, 03:58 PM
Should Pact hammers work differently?


Property: When you hit a target affected by your Warlock’s Curse with this weapon, you deal your extra curse damage against that target.


But don't you always deal extra damage when hitting a target affected by curse? Does this let you deal the damage 2x in a round?

SCPRedMage
2008-09-18, 04:14 PM
But don't you always deal extra damage when hitting a target affected by curse? Does this let you deal the damage 2x in a round?
Well, the updated version of Warlock's Curse says:

If you hit a cursed enemy with an attack, you deal extra damage.
Based on the way the Pact Hammer is writen, I'd think that they meant to say attack power. But as written, yeah, the Pact Hammer's property is meaningless...

quillbreaker
2008-09-18, 06:51 PM
Were there splatbooks released in the interim? No, your players simply learned how the system worked and adjusted their tactics to suit it.

Even-level encounters are supposed to be easy. It's +1 or more encounters that are supposed to be challenging.

My guess is never.

I can see the character challenge already - or, given that party balance is so important in 4th, it will probably be a party design contest. "Create a 4 man party that can trivialize most +4 encounters it faces."


Before you switch to 4th edition? :smalltongue: The thing is, if the creep gets that bad, hopefully monsters will creep as well.

People have reacted badly so far to the existing monsters that are harder than the other monsters worth the same amount of xp. See "needlefang drake swarm". I don't expect to see that change, and given the miniatures-team-construction guidelines for encounter designs, there will be the perception of cheating by the DM if he uses power-creeped monsters. Not a justified perception, but you know how some people can be.