Arena Tournament, Round 49: Kor Battleborn and MitS vs Leaf and Cyn

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 49: Kor Battleborn and MitS vs. Leaf and Cyn

Map:
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z83/Bitzeralisis/Arena%20Tournament%20Maps/Arena-Base-Map.gif
The Arena walls for this map are 30 ft high, with a Climb DC of 30. The pillars are 10 feet tall with a Climb DC of 20.


XP and GP Awards:
1st: 1200XP and 1100GP
2nd: 400XP and 500GP
3rd: 200xp and 200GP

Bayar - Kor Battleborn (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=42319)
Morbius - MitS (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=31356)
Maurkov - Leaf (http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/profiler/view_char.php?cid=10000)
Stupnick - Cyn (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=41483)

All Combatants, please roll initiative.

[Bayar]

Initiative: [roll0]

Edit: Dunno what to buy yet.

[Morbius]

Ok, here goes initiative:
[roll0]

About items... let's see for start a potion of CLW, a potion of protection from chaos a few bullets and slings

EDIT: Actually make that 2 CLW potions, and also a a potion of protection from good and a martial script of flame's blessing

Also refs only
I said refs only...
Shaped Soulmelds:
rege claws


Manuevers readied (coming soon)
Shadow blade technique
Burning blade
Counter Charge
sudden leap

[Maurkov]

Wow, I've been away from the arena for a while. I forget, are orcs vulnerable to charm animal?

I'm going to discuss a little strategy with Stupnick before buying and rolling init.

[stupnick]

rolling init
[roll0]

purchases will be posted, discussing with leaf

[Morbius]

Wow, I've been away from the arena for a while. I forget, are orcs vulnerable to charm animal?



¬¬
"I will feast on your entrails for this insult"
says Monster in the Shadows (with wings)tm

That was a no btw

[Maurkov]

Leaf

"You wanna eat me? I'm flattered. I wouldn't feed you to my dog."

Buy
Scroll of Extended SNAII (375)
Scroll of SNAIII (375)
Potion of Shield of Faith (50)
(reserving the right to react to opponents' purchases)

[roll0]

Spell Selection
0 Detect Magic, Detect Magic, Guidance, Guidance
1 Speak with Animals, Entangle, Produce Flame

[Morbius]

Please not sig, sorry

EDIT: Trip canceled :smalltongue:

[stupnick]

purchasing

30xjavalins
10xacidic fire
Scroll of ESNAII
Scroll of SG

reserve the right to purchase against your purchases

[Morbius]

purchasing

30xjavalins
10xacidic fire
Scroll of ESNAII
Scroll of SG

reserve the right to purchase against your purchases

Humm I didn't know Cyn could use scrolls :smalltongue:

So what is SG, what is ESNAII?

[Maurkov]

Sorry your trip was cancelled.

Acidic Fire is from the Eberron Campaign Setting. ESNAII is (Extended) Summon Nature's Ally II and SG is Spike Growth. I believe Cyn is going to hand the scrolls off to Leaf.

[Morbius]

Sorry your trip was cancelled.

Acidic Fire is from the Eberron Campaign Setting. ESNAII is (Extended) Summon Nature's Ally II and SG is Spike Growth. I believe Cyn is going to hand the scrolls off to Leaf.

Don't be it was not like I wanted t go (today anyway)

It was not exactly canceled and more like errr postponed:smallwink: so instead of rushing out today I will have time to actualy pack my stuff :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: Wow... I was just looking into Spike Growth... so we won't be able to see what squares will be affected?

EDIT2: Updated buying list on the 1st post

[Maurkov]

So with 5 ranks, how much fire resistance does that give you?

Re: Spike Growth, yes. It's a burly search DC.

[Morbius]

Fire resistance 5

[Bayar]

Please note sig. I will be unable, for a while, to decide on my purchases, so please dont DQ me :frown:

[stupnick]

yes, unless your a rogue, you can't even attempt to find where the spikes are... sneaky ain't it : )


in response to your updated list

i will buy 4 alch frost and 4 3 alch spark

what book is that flames blessing from? and what does it do : )

[Morbius]

what book is that flames blessing from? and what does it do : )

Tome of battle, it's a stance that gives fire resistance based on number of tumble ranks (for me it will give fire resistance 5).

Oh yeah, I guess it is fair to warn you that Bayar actually made a couple buyings before the match(he told me that yesterday), they are on his expenses chart but not on his item list

[stupnick]

i believe we are waiting on counter buys, before we can start??

i saw bayar post in the waiting room today, hopefully he's around.

[Bayar]

Hmm...a potion of protection from chaos, a CLW pot, a shield of faith potion and...enough for now. Still thinking though.

[Maurkov]

Bayar, are you finished with your buys?

Leaf has no reaction to the purchases so far.

[Bayar]

Waiting for reaction buy, and might still buy something, but not sure...

[stupnick]

well i have no reaction buys, so that means we can move onto the battle since reaction buys are done.

i will post my first action in the morning since i am first up

just wondering, since we are teamed up, can it be assumed that we could have previously handed items to our partners

[Morbius]

I don't think Bayar has finished his buyings...

[Maurkov]

Since scrolls must be deciphered before use, I will assume we shared items well before match day.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic


Since scrolls must be deciphered before use, I will assume we shared items well before match day.


Items may be traded, sold, or purchased from other characters of another player. Transactions must be of equal value in gold piece cost. Value is defined as the normal market price of such an item.

I also believe that Kyeudo's ruled that scrolls for Arena come pre-identified.

Basically, what this means is that you're welcome to trade items of equal value between teammates prior to match start, but having participants begin play with items that aren't owned by them would qualify as an action which must be done in match, as the above rule is the only one I can see which deals with item exchange between players, and would thus hold sway.

[chilepepper]

High Ref chilepepper

I concur.

[Maurkov]

Nice to see the refs are tuning in.

No problem. This my first team match. Has it been previously determined what kind of action it is for each character to pass an object from one to another? Does it depend if one takes vs. the other one gives?

Bayar: We're all waiting on you to definitively finish your shopping (while, one would assume, reserving your right to reaction-buys).

[chilepepper]

High Ref chilepepper

I don't know if there's other precedent, but I've personally taken things from friendlies. Taking an item from a teammate can be a Disarm attempt the isn't resisted.

As far as RAW goes, giving an item might be considered stowing an item (in someone else's hand). But going by super-strict RAW, the receiver would drop it since he can't take free actions off his turn, save speaking. Also, that makes it a move action, whereas the other is a standard action.

If we go by RAW, you'd probably have to drop it, and let your teammate pick it up. However, I'd be fine with making it a standard action to either give or take an item from a willing teammate. I'll grab Kyeudo's attention.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

The unresisted Disarm attempt seems like a good model for taking an item from someone. I think we should go with that.

[Bayar]

K. And a pair of brute gauntlets. Spent 650 GP. Remaining: 174.

The match can begin.

[Maurkov]

So a standard action by the taker? Alright. Looks like the giver doesn't have to spend an action to take the item in hand, since disarm can grab unsecured items, too.

Looks like Leaf could start with his shield slung and make two disarms to seize the scrolls. The twf penalties don't mean anything, unopposed.

[stupnick]

Cyn

Action
for ref's and partner

I will begin in Z14
In my hand i will have 2 javalins.
the scrolls will be sitting on top of my belt pouch, ready to be taken

I will ready an action to throw a javalin if LOS to either of them is established.


ready an action

stats

HP: 30
AC: 10
T: 7 F: 11


Kor is up

[Bayar]

Kor - Round 1

Refs, buddy:
Will start with my MW greatsword in my off-hand, only holding it, and a potion of Invisibility in the other.

Drink potion and become invisible. Also drop bottle. And move to C5.

To my wingman: You take the low-side.


Done. Shadow is up.

Stats:
HP:21/21
AC: 15 T: 11 FF: 14
Crystals of returning are equipped on: MW spiked chain, Sungliin
Everything on sheet is on my persona.

[Morbius]

Hum let's see....

Monster in the Shadows(with wings)tm 3rd to act - round 1

Refs and Bayar

I don't think I see where you move after you drink the potion :smalltongue:

ok now Mits starts on B14 with a potion of protection from chaos and a Flame's blessing martial script

swift action to activate child of shadow stance.
standard to drink the potion.
free to drop the vial.
move action to go to H15 drawing sling while I move and trying to hide and move silently.
[roll0]
[roll1]


Also refs be warned that I will use the counter-charge manuever against any charge except those by the summoned creatures I know/believe my potions protect me against.


EDIT: Done

Mits’ Stats (for refs)

Location: H15
HP: 20/20
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 15, Touch 11, Flat-footed 14
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will -2
Attacks: +9 MW greatsword (2D6+9), +3 10xjavelins (1d6+6), +3 sling (1d4+6)
Held/worn: 3/3brute gauntlets, 2x potion of CLW, potion of protection from good
Effects: concealment, protection from chaos 10/10
Reactive rolls:
[roll2]
[roll3]

[Maurkov]

Leaf Round 1 Init 8

Assuming nobody from the red team came into view on round 1,

ActionsLeaf begins in square Z13 with the scroll of ESNAII in hand, shield on the other. Max (Animal Companion) is in Y13. Bud (mount) is staying home.

Leaf uses Handle Animal to give Max the 'Guard' command (free action; auto success). He begins casting the scroll (full round). Caster Level Check DC6 [roll0]. Possible Wisdom Check DC5 to avoid mishap [roll1]. Possible Mishap damage [roll2]*

*Hopefully it won't matter, but the metamagic doesn't increase the spell level, so I maintain it's only 2 dice.

Edit: Darn. Spell failed.


Done.

Stat Block
[roll3] [roll4]
HP16
AC20 t14 ff17
Location: Z13
Hands: Scroll, Shield
Active Spells: None

Bud [roll5] [roll6]
HP13
AC20 t12 ff18
Location: Y13
Active Command: Guard
SQ: Scent

[stupnick]

Cyn, Top Round 2

Actions

well at least it wasn't wasted... you can try again
ready action to javalin the first target i see.

Ready action

Stats

Location Z14
HP: 30
AC: 10
T: 7 F: 11


Next : )

[Bayar]

Kor - Round 2

I will draw a potion of protection vs chaos as a move action, drink it, drop the bottle as a free action and 5ft step into D5.

Stats:
HP:21/21
AC: 15 T: 11 FF: 14
Crystals of returning are equipped on: MW spiked chain, Sungliin
Location: D5
Buffs: Invisibility 2/30
Prot VS Chaos: 1/10
Everything on sheet is on my persona.

End turn.

[Morbius]

Monster in the Shadows(with wings)tm 3rd to act - round 2




standard to read the martial script.
free to drop the used script.
free to load sling
move action to go to L15 trying to hide and move silently.
[roll0]
[roll1]





Need a LOS check, if none I'm done

Mits’ Stats (for refs)

Location: L15
HP: 20/20
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 15, Touch 11, Flat-footed 14
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will -2
Attacks: +9 MW greatsword (2D6+9), +3 10xjavelins (1d6+6), +3 30xsling (1d4+6)
Held/worn: 3/3brute gauntlets, 2x potion of CLW, potion of protection from good
Effects: concealment, protection from chaos 10/10
Avaliable Manuevers/Stances:Flame's blessing, counter charge, sudden leap, burning blade, shadow blade technique
Reactive rolls:
[roll2]
[roll3]

[Maurkov]

@ref, in making the LoS check, please include anything Leaf has heard or Max has smelt. Leaf's passive checks are in his stat block.

[AlterForm]

Ref AlterForm

LoS Check

Kor
No LoS

MitS
Leaf's riding dog companion is in Y13.
Leaf is in Z13.
Cyn is in Z14.

Leaf
MitS is in L15, with cover.

Cyn
No LoS.

MitS may complete his turn as he sees fit, then play passes to Leaf once he is done.

[Morbius]

Question for the refs
Cyn has beaten my hide check? Since alterform is saying that he has to resolve something I guess whatever ready action he had triggered

[AlterForm]

Morbius
:smallredface:
T'inking I made a slight booboo mixup. Gimme a minute.

Refs
[roll0] against DC 12 (+1 skill, -7 for 70-ft range penalty)
I originally lost track of whose checks were what and wound up assigning Leaf's spot check to Cyn as well.

Issue resolved. See post 40.

[Morbius]

hummmm. done ... next!

[Maurkov]

Morbius, did you take actions after the LoS or is that position still valid?

@cyn (whispered)I see MitS at the top level of the ziggurat, at the SW pillar. If you can spare the attention, please drop that ESNAII scroll over here. (I think a move action from each of us is cheaper than Leaf spending a whole standard.) I'm going to speak with Max (the dog) so that we know if Kor is using invisibility in an attempt to get first blood.

ActionDelay. (Until Cyn acts, or speaks such that it changes Leaf's mind.)

Stat blockI don't think they change from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4976375&postcount=35) until Leaf takes an action. But since his delay rolls over to the new round, I could be wrong. Refs, let me know if you need me to re-roll passive sense checks.

[Morbius]

it's valid...

what about your actions? :smalltongue:


EDIT: This is to help any ref with LOS checks:

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2379/templesidehl6.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Maurkov]

Leaf may have said something, but he took no visible actions.

[stupnick]

Cyn

Round 3, top of the order.

If you can see Cyn

Nodding towards his teamate, he draws out the scrolls at his side and then drops them at leaf's feet.

move action to draw one, free action to drop
standard to move action to draw one, free action to drop

spot check
[roll0]


for leaf

remember if you fail your check, you don't lose the scroll, as long as you pass your wisdom check.


stats

Location Z14
HP: 30
AC: 10
T: 7 F: 11


next.

[Morbius]

You see nothing new with that spot Cyn :smallbiggrin:, but...


Mits -between rounds

Free action to look back and say:
"They are right where they started, they have not moved so far"

I 'think' that this gives away Mits position or at least entitles anyone to make a listen check to know that he is at L15

[Maurkov]

Hang on, Morbius. Leaf will stop delaying when Cyn acts. His Init changes from 8 to 15.

@cynOh. Oops. In that case I don't need the scroll yet. :smallsigh:

I was hoping you'd just drop the one and keep your readied action. I thought Leaf would have this turn to pick up(move action) and cast speak with animals (standard), then use his next full round to summon the mount. Instead, I'll just try this scroll again. If the casting is successful, you may need to delay until the mount appears (acting before Leaf on Init 15), grab a scroll (move) and mount up (move). Leaf will grab a scroll (move) mount up (move) and the mount's action will wisk us to safety... If Leaf doesn't blow another caster level check.

I'm guessing that MitS saying 'over his shoulder' is misdirection. Kor is probably right there, invisible. I'm just hoping he's not close enough to disrupt the spell.

Everyone who can see LeafLeaf recites the scroll he is holding. It's a long spell.

Not visibleCaster Level Check DC6 [roll0]. Possible Wisdom Check DC5 to avoid mishap [roll1]. Possible Mishap [roll2].Done.

Stat Block
[roll3] [roll4]
HP16
AC20 t14 ff17
Location: Z13
Hands: Scroll, Shield
Active Spells: None

Bud [roll5] [roll6]
HP13
AC20 t12 ff18
Location: Y13
Active Command: Guard
SQ: Scent

[Morbius]

:smalleek: Delay? You said nothing about delay:smallconfused:

Isn't that a visible action? Like reading?

But that is a moot point now... only difference is that the Mits speaking part will take place after Leaf's action with whatever adjustment needed

[Maurkov]

Being inaction, I hadn't thought of delay being a visible action. Could you tell if someone was delaying vs. making active listen checks? Manifesting psionically? Sorry if you were mislead.

[Morbius]

Being inaction, I hadn't thought of delay being a visible action. Could you tell if someone was delaying vs. making active listen checks? Manifesting psionically? Sorry if you were mislead.

The same is valid for ready action :P you do nothing until the trigger happens but for some reason people say that it's visible here. (actually I always had a problem with this rule)

[stupnick]

i agree with you as well about that mobius.. i don't know how it's visible either....

[Maurkov]

Either way, your initiative didn't come up between when Leaf started his delay and when he took his action, so lets move on. I'll be explicit next time.

Kor's turn, right?

[Morbius]

Yes it is...

[Talic]

High Ref Talic


I 'think' that this gives away Mits position or at least entitles anyone to make a listen check to know that he is at.

Note that A successful listen check allows you to hear a sound, not to pinpoint it. In order to look in Morbius's spoiler block from this post due to a listen check, players must beat the listen DC by 20, which will pinpoint the sound.

Refs can determine whether you've done so, based on relevant match factors.

[Bayar]

My turn ? :smallconfused:

[Morbius]

Yes Bayar!

[Bayar]

Kor - Round 3

All out run from D5 to Y5.

Stats:
HP:21/21
AC: 15 T: 11 FF: 14
Crystals of returning are equipped on: MW spiked chain, Sungliin
Location: Y5
Buffs: Invisibility 3/30
Prot VS Chaos: 2/10
Everything on sheet is on my persona.

End turn.

[Morbius]

Monster in the Shadows(with wings)tm 3rd to act - round 3


Mits moves to O15, only his piercing yellow eyes visible among the shadows that engulf him.
Then with inhuman strengh he uses his sling to send a rock flying towards Cyn
[roll0](-2 from range added)
[roll1]


refs If mits steps on spikes during his move I will change his action


Should be done unless the refs say otherwise, but there is no need to hold the match. Next

Mits’ Stats (for refs)

Location: O15
HP: 20/20
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 15, Touch 11, Flat-footed 14 (cover bonus and +2 vs Cyn not added)
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will -2
Attacks: +9 MW greatsword (2D6+9), +3 10xjavelins (1d6+6), +3 30xsling (1d4+6)
Held/worn: 3/3brute gauntlets, 2x potion of CLW, potion of protection from good
Effects: concealment, protection from chaos 8/10
Avaliable Manuevers/Stances:Flame's blessing, counter charge, sudden leap, burning blade, shadow blade technique
Reactive rolls:
[roll2]
[roll3]

[Morbius]

Actually, to speed things up anyone can read that refs spoiler above.

PS: Max damage... yay.

[stupnick]

hold action till after leaf.

[Morbius]

It was a hit right?

[stupnick]

i didn't even see that....
ac 16 is a hit yes

[Maurkov]

Leaf Round 4 Init 15

As Leaf completes the scroll, a fiesty looking hippogriff appears X14-Y15. Leaf hops on its back. [roll0] (no saddle, armor check applies). If he makes DC 20, that was a free action, otherwise it's a move. If free, he scoops up one of the scrolls Cyn dropped.

Max the dog remains in Y13.

Leaf readies an action.Once Cyn has mounted, scoop up [a | the other] scroll and direct the mount to fly to O14-P15, 75'. Guiding with knees is auto-success. The hippogriff chooses MitS as his dodge buddy.

Stat Block
[roll1] [roll2]
HP16
AC20 t14 ff17
Location: Z13. In a readied action moves to O14-P15, 75'.
Hands: Scroll , Shield
Active Spells: ESNAII (15 rounds)

Augmented Ashbound HIPPOGRIFF
[roll3] [roll4]
HP 31
AC 15 (16 vs. MitS via dodge feat) (–1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13
Location X14-Y15 later moves to O14-P15, 75'
full stats
Large Magical Beast; HD 3d10+15 (31 hp); Init +2; Spd 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 100 ft. (average); AC 15 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13; BAB +3/+13; Attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d4+6) and bite +6 melee (1d8+3); Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.; SA -; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Saves F+8 R+5 W+2; Abilities ST22 DX15 CN20 IN2 WS13 CH8; Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8; Feats: Dodge, Wingover

Hippogriffs are aggressive flying creatures that combine features of horses and giant eagles. Voracious omnivores, hippogriffs will hunt humanoids as readily as any other meal. A typical hippogriff is 9 feet long, has a wingspan of 20 feet, and weighs 1,000 pounds.

COMBAT
Hippogriffs dive at their prey and strike with their clawed forelegs. When they cannot dive, they slash with claws and beak. Mated pairs and flights of these creatures attack in concert, diving repeatedly to drive away or kill intruders. Hippogriffs fight to the death to defend their nests and their hatchlings, which are prized as aerial mounts and fetch a handsome price in many civilized areas.

Skills: Hippogriffs have a +4 racial bonus on Spot checks.
Bud [roll5] [roll6]
HP13
AC20 t12 ff18
Location: Y13
Active Command: Guard
SQ: Scent

Edited for ride check result.

[Morbius]

Wait, wait, leaf was not mounted? He brought only one dog?

[Maurkov]

Yes and yes. I guess that's a problem with the secret post thing. It's not obvious to the LoS ref exactly what is pertinent information. Were you even told that there was a dog in Y13?

[Morbius]

Yeah, I just assumed you were mounted because of your sheet listing 2 dogs and I don't think you mentioned anything on the 1st post about leaving one of them behind...

[stupnick]

Cyn

Taking my turn now...

Grab one of the scrolls on the ground, and then mount the hippogriff.

stats

Location Z14 (mounted)
HP: 20/30
AC: 10
T: 7 F: 11

[Morbius]

Oh, I do was wondering what benefit Leaf would get by mounting on the hippogriph. Assuming you are done Bayar is up.

[Maurkov]

That triggers Leaf's readied action:

Leaf grabs the other scroll. With powerful wings the hippogriff launches into the air and flies to O14-P15, 75'.

Do we need LoS checks anymore? Where is Kor and what are each of you holding?

Now its Bayar's turn.

[Morbius]

Kor is nowhere to be seen... and Mits has only a sling on his hands

I still don't get what are you two planning to do... but anyway

MitS between rounds

Free action to shout:
"Shoot at them now! Then come and take cover behind one of the pillars"

[Morbius]

Wait a minute, actually that move is illegal Maurkov an Hippogriff has only average Maneuverability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm), so moving up is a double move and I believe it can only move up 3 squares for each 2 it moves forward (or something like that).


(and looking at that is how I discovered some time ago that animal devotion (fly) is not that good as people think)

[Maurkov]

I sketched it out to verify angles and such....

The hippogriff takes its turn on Leaf's initiative so it gets a double move. Leaf's ready action altered his initiative, so it acts now.

At speed 100' (double move, half speed while climbing), taking off at 60 degrees it could have gone 50' forward and 85' up. In this case it leveled off at 75'.

Does that work for you?

[Morbius]

I sketched it out to verify angles and such....

The hippogriff takes its turn on Leaf's initiative so it gets a double move. Leaf's ready action altered his initiative, so it acts now.

At speed 100' (double move, half speed while climbing), taking off at 60 degrees it could have gone 50' forward and 85' up. In this case it leveled off at 75'.

Does that work for you?

I don't know if it could use a double move on a readied action as you can only ready standard actions or faster and a double move usually lasts one full round, even if you are not the one moving. Indeed the mount share your initiative but in this new initiative you can only take one action this round

[stupnick]

the mount delayed waiting for the go command which was leaf's readied action.
leaf takes his readied action - mount go
mount then takes it whole delayed turn, which is a doubled move.

it's legal

[Morbius]

I believe it was ruled earlier that you cannot make mounts ready action but you can ready an action to make your mount do something. I guess delay is applied like this as well or else it would make no sense.

[Maurkov]

According to the mounted combat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#mountedCombat) rules, "Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move."

I don't know if it can take any of the special initiative actions since it doesn't have its own initiative score.

Leaf's readied action was to take a scroll. When Leaf's readied action is triggered, the current initiative count becomes his initiative count, and the mount can move as he directs it, using its action.

[Bayar]

...........what ? :confused:

[Maurkov]

Where did I lose you?

Mounts don't have their own initiative score.
Mounts act on their rider's initiative.
It is Leaf's initative when his readied action is triggered.
Mounts use their own action to move.
The mount takes a double move during Leaf's turn.

Which bullet points do you wish to challenge?

[Morbius]

Where did I lose you?

Mounts don't have their own initiative score.


Which bullet points do you wish to challenge?

correct


Where did I lose you?


Mounts act on their rider's initiative.


Which bullet points do you wish to challenge?

correct again


Where did I lose you?


It is Leaf's initative when his readied action is triggered.


Which bullet points do you wish to challenge?

Indeed however in this 'round' Leaf can only take a single action due to time limits, so how could it's mount take a full round action?


EDIT: Also a little quote from an article from the wizards


Moving While Mounted (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050125a)

When you and your mount move, the two of you use your mount's speed rating, adjusted for the mount's encumbrance and the terrain. Because your mount takes you along with it when it moves, a move for your mount also counts as a move for you. (See Rules of the Game, All About Movement for notes on what constitutes movement.) Even though you're not propelling yourself, you still spend time moving. So, for example, if you and your mount move, neither you nor your mount can take a 5-foot step during the same turn.

So your mount taking a double move would count as a 3rd action for YOU on the round

[Maurkov]

I believe RAW supersedes RotG articles. "A move for your mount also counts as a move for you" makes it sound like I couldn't put a weapon away (move action) while my mount was taking a double move (move action, move action).


in this 'round' Leaf can only take a single action due to time limits, so how could it's mount take a full round action?That's more persuasive. A mount can't take a double move during a surprise round.

But I'm still not convinced. There are restrictions on taking full round actions during mount movement, but they only apply to attacks and to spell casting. Any other full round of actions can be taken before or after a mount's double movement. So mount up, pick up an object, ride(x2) is a legal move. Leaf's mount up, (wait,) pick up an object, ride(x2) is equivalent. That (wait) would usually manifest as a decrease in the initiative count (or a roll over into the following turn). In this case, though, I think everything happened on 15.

Now lets see if a ref already ninja'd me.

[Morbius]

Let me try a little more then, you have been saying that the mount acton on Leaf's initiative and you are completely correct. That means that both of them act at the same time, so I ask of you, during Leaf's 1st action to mount the beast time did no pass for the mount? Of course it did, however it spent it's 1st action doing nothing.

Then someone will come and say but the mount was delaying it's actions, but I ask you, if the mount acts on Leaf's initiative how can it delay it's action if Leaf didn't? The answer is it can't, not unless Leaf delay his action as well, so if Leaf has only one single action left, so does the mount.

That is also why a character can make a full ranged attack from a moving mount but cannot make a melee one. An archer will continualy fire arrows as his mounts move while a knight will have to wait for it's mount to spend at least one move action(and during that time he can take a move action himself if he wants: loose shield whatever) to then make a single attack using it's second action

[Maurkov]

I ask of you, during Leaf's 1st action to mount the beast time did no pass for the mount? Of course it did, however it spent it's 1st action doing nothing.So do you maintain that if Leaf had chosen to mount up (move action) and ride off, the mount could only take a single move? If he had drawn a weapon (move action) and then mounted up (move action), the mount couldn't move? Is there textual support for this?

"[T]he mount uses its action to move." is still compelling, to me. The mount has taken no actions. Therefore it has two actions to take-- at any point during Leaf's turn (barring the special rules for attacking and casting).

[Morbius]

So do you maintain that if Leaf had chosen to mount up (move action) and ride off, the mount could only take a single move? If he had drawn a weapon (move action) and then mounted up (move action), the mount couldn't move? Is there textual support for this?



Yes and yes unless he succeded on a ride check for Fast mount.
As for textual support give me some time


EDIT: You know something? Lets continue the match as it is and continue the discussion on the waiting room if I am right in the end we let this slide if you are right good for you ok? Bayar please go.

[chilepepper]

High Ref chilepepper

I kind of skimmed, so forgive me if I repeat someone else. This is not an official ruling, I'm just pointing something out that I don't think was mentioned.

As I see it, everything is legal EXCEPT, when you take your readied action, all you can do is what you readied and take a 5' step if you haven't moved. You can't direct a mount during your readied action unless that IS your readied action. Unless the mount has above animal intelligence, it doesn't move unless you direct it.

[Morbius]

High Ref chilepepper

I kind of skimmed, so forgive me if I repeat someone else. This is not an official ruling, I'm just pointing something out that I don't think was mentioned.

As I see it, everything is legal EXCEPT, when you take your readied action, all you can do is what you readied and take a 5' step if you haven't moved. You can't direct a mount during your readied action unless that IS your readied action. Unless the mount has above animal intelligence, it doesn't move unless you direct it.

But the question is, can you use a single standard action to direct your mount for a double move?
Anyway let this be as it is let's continue any discussion in the waiting room.



EDIT: On the other hand Maurkov you guys might want to lose some weight or leave some stuff behind or else that pretty bird won't even fly due to medium load and all.

[Maurkov]

This is not an official ruling...

As I see it, everything is legal EXCEPT, when you take your readied action, all you can do is what you readied and take a 5' step if you haven't moved. You can't direct a mount during your readied action unless that IS your readied action. Unless the mount has above animal intelligence, it doesn't move unless you direct it.That's an interesting point. Guiding a mount isn't an action, though. With the strict interpretation, you can't actually ready an action to move while mounted. If you'd like to say that with your ref hat on, let me know to what point I should rewind. Morbius and I are still in disagreement over the number of move actions a mount can take when the rider has less than a full action available.

Anyway let this be as it is let's continue any discussion in the waiting room.Can't we have the refs come here instead? We've written so much already.
EDIT: On the other hand Maurkov you guys might want to lose some weight or leave some stuff behind or else that pretty bird won't even fly due to medium load and all.The 'griff can carry 519 as a light load thanks to augmented summoning.

[Bayar]

That's an interesting point. Guiding a mount isn't an action, though. With the strict interpretation, you can't actually ready an action to move while mounted. If you'd like to say that with your ref hat on, let me know to what point I should rewind. Morbius and I are still in disagreement over the number of move actions a mount can take when the rider has less than a full action available.
Can't we have the refs come here instead? We've written so much already.The 'griff can carry 519 as a light load thanks to augmented summoning.


Yes, but the ready action says you can only perform the readied action and a 5ft step. So tehnically, you have to ready it even though it is not an action.

[chilepepper]

Alright, I'll put on my hat.

High Ref chilepepper

Since you can ready anything equal to or less than a standard action, I rule that things that are technically "not an action" still fall under the restrictions for a readied action. You can ready one action and take a 5' step, but nothing else. So you can't take a "not an action" during a readied action, but you can ready a "not an action" if you want to.

If you ready an action to direct your mount, it may make a double move. RAW is clear the the mount is using it's own turn-action allotment to move. The mount taking a full round action in the middle of your standard action is irrelevant since your standard action is in the middle (or interrupting) someone else's action.


****

So, in this case, you could not have readied an action to grab the scroll and direct the mount. The rewind goes back to the readying of the action, Leaf - round 4.

Also, since it was just mentioned
Heroes of Battle pg68 says
... if carrying a medium or heavy load, it's [flying] speed is reduced by 1/3.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

I'm going to put a temporary hold on this match, to bring up a point of reference.

I need a moment to research that point, however.

More to come in a moment or three.

Can't find it at the moment, but I'm sure that in a previous round, in the same time frame of Chile 2 (round 32), we nailed down some hard-and-fasts to mounted movement. The overall consensus of that was that animals acted when you direct them, albeit the text that they act on your initiative. The reason that I remember is that for many of those questions, I was the one asking them. If memory serves, it was a mounted lancer in a concurrent round/match that had the question asked, though Chile 2 vs Maurkov that had the initial questions asked (round 32). However, I'm having difficulty locating that match. There was also a massive debacle concerning spot modifiers to bluff rolls there, not that that's relevant.

Anyhow, as I don't have anything to add in that can be verified at the moment, game on.

[chilepepper]

((I knew I should have left my hat in the closet.))

[Talic]

Posted to let chile know it's safe to wear hats.

[Morbius]

I really don't wanted for this match to stay on hold for so long, let's leave it as it is and continue...

[Maurkov]

Leaf could have accomplished the same thing with a delay. His Dex bonus is higher than Kor's so he'd still have acted next even if his init slipped to 14.

Are you also dropping the single move/double move question?

[Talic]

Fair enough. To Note the following, however:
In response to "a move action for your mount is a move action for you:

SRD: (mounted combat)

Combat while Mounted

With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.

When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance.

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally
Casting Spells while Mounted

You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a Concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your Concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level).


The underlined portions would not be possible if move actions of the animal cost move actions by the pc. Thus, we can assume that Primary source (SRD) trumps tertiary source (Web article). Unless your mount is not trained for combat, readying an action to move a horse is a standard action, which readies a non-action (free action).

By Strict interpretation of SRD, it is not your initiative count when you direct a mount as a readied action (initiative count doesn't change until after move is completed), thus it would not be able to move. However, it's been ruled otherwise, for simplicity, to be, "your mount acts when you direct it".

Match Free to resume, barring any other ref involvement.

[Morbius]

Are you also dropping the single move/double move question?

Nope, if you are insisting on this so much during the match I can't help but get a feeling that you wanted to continue to do that as part of some strategy.


Fair enough. To Note the following, however:
In response to "a move action for your mount is a move action for you:

SRD: (mounted combat)

Combat while Mounted

With a DC 5 Ride check, you can guide your mount with your knees so as to use both hands to attack or defend yourself. This is a free action.

When you attack a creature smaller than your mount that is on foot, you get the +1 bonus on melee attacks for being on higher ground. If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted.

If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance.

You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally
Casting Spells while Mounted

You can cast a spell normally if your mount moves up to a normal move (its speed) either before or after you cast. If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving, and you have to make a Concentration check due to the vigorous motion (DC 10 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the mount is running (quadruple speed), you can cast a spell when your mount has moved up to twice its speed, but your Concentration check is more difficult due to the violent motion (DC 15 + spell level).


The underlined portions would not be possible if move actions of the animal cost move actions by the pc. Thus, we can assume that Primary source (SRD) trumps tertiary source (Web article). Unless your mount is not trained for combat, readying an action to move a horse is a standard action, which readies a non-action (free action).

By Strict interpretation of SRD, it is not your initiative count when you direct a mount as a readied action (initiative count doesn't change until after move is completed), thus it would not be able to move. However, it's been ruled otherwise, for simplicity, to be, "your mount acts when you direct it".



Reply to this:
My point is not that a mount moving costs an action from the rider. My point is as they have the same initiative they act at the same time. You can't do a full round action then have your mount have another full round action. The two creatures act as one, except that one does the moving while the other to do something at the same time

That is why "If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving" meaning that during at least one of the move actions of the mount the rider used a standard action to cast a spell, not before or after. If the rider wanted to avoid the mount moving while he casts a spell he would have to make the mount spend one of it's actions to stand still while he casts the spell. That is my point here. During Leaf's mounting action the beast spent it's 1st action for that round standing still waiting, then Leat spent a standard action to make the mount move, however a second move from the mount, would mean that chile would need to spend a new action standing still over it while it moved (and in this case the mount would need a new action to move since it spent it's 1st action waiting for Leaf).

That is why you can't full attack on melee even if your mount do all the moving, you spend your 1st action standing still on the mount

[Maurkov]

Well, the "strategy" there was to stay outside MitS's first range increment.

I would like it settled, though, because at some point it might be more important than that. I can easily see a case where Leaf would want to draw a scroll, cast from it, and then have the mount take a single move (for ranging purposes). Or ready a shield before taking a double move away (for extra AC against the AoO).

If I understand your position, that the mount's actions must be synchronous with the rider's, there would be no time left for the mount to move after the spell was cast, or to take a second move after the shield was readied. For non-attack, non-spell casting actions, by RAW I don't see any synchronization requirement.

[Maurkov]

I'll adjust Leaf's Init to 14 based on the Ready discussion, but the double move was upheld (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5040245&postcount=1245) on appeal.

Bayar, I believe it's Kor's turn.

[Talic]

Reply to this:
My point is not that a mount moving costs an action from the rider. My point is as they have the same initiative they act at the same time. You can't do a full round action then have your mount have another full round action. The two creatures act as one, except that one does the moving while the other to do something at the same time

That is why "If you have your mount move both before and after you cast a spell, then you’re casting the spell while the mount is moving" meaning that during at least one of the move actions of the mount the rider used a standard action to cast a spell, not before or after. If the rider wanted to avoid the mount moving while he casts a spell he would have to make the mount spend one of it's actions to stand still while he casts the spell. That is my point here. During Leaf's mounting action the beast spent it's 1st action for that round standing still waiting, then Leat spent a standard action to make the mount move, however a second move from the mount, would mean that chile would need to spend a new action standing still over it while it moved (and in this case the mount would need a new action to move since it spent it's 1st action waiting for Leaf).

That is why you can't full attack on melee even if your mount do all the moving, you spend your 1st action standing still on the mount

Reply:You can do a full attack when your mount moves. Just not a full MELEE attack. You may have the mount move, fire a full round ranged attack (-4 penalty to all attacks), and then have the mount continue moving again. Heck, you can do it while the mount does a full-round RUN (you take a full-round full attack with arrows at midpoint, -8 to all attacks, mount takes full round action to run at x4 speed).

SRD:
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a -4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed), at a -8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally

This shows you can take a full round action while your mount moves. There is no reference anywhere in the SRD to movement by your combat-trained mount costing rider actions. This text here contradicts that philosophy, also. You may not make more than a single Melee attack when your mount moves, however, you are still fully allowed to perform other actions. That is a specific special case, where it prohibits a specific action. It's not doing it because you don't have a full round action available. It's doing it because you just can't do it. If your mount moves, it does not matter if you use a Belt of Battle for an extra Full round action. You cannot make more than one melee attack. That's RAW. This other mess? About how mount's movement costs PC actions? It's not supported by RAW. When your mount moves, you can draw a potion and attack. You can ready a shield and attack. You can do any move action and still attack. Or you can just attack, and forego a move action that you have. You didn't use it. Even if you chose a full attack action, however, you get one attack. No more. Because that's the RAW.

You don't spend any action standing still. Yes, that rule represents the time it takes the mount to get there. However, it's perfectly legal to do the following: Direct mount to double move to an enemy(free). Attack enemy(standard). Drop weapon(free). Draw weapon(move).

There is no restriction that your move must come when the mount is moving. You don't spend your first action standing still.

By the strictest interpretation of the limitation on melee attacks, you couldn't even perform maneuvers that allow 2 attacks as a standard action, or use feats such as dual strike, that do the same.

Basically, the mounted combat section lists many actions you can and cannot do. This does not affect your total actions available, only what you're allowed to use those actions for. The text specifically allows the normal use of move actions while mounted. Thus, it's legal to perform any move action while mounted, unless the nature of being mounted prevents the action from being possible. You may similarly have a mount double move and still cast, or fire ranged attacks, or even melee attack. There is no text saying otherwise.

[Bayar]

Will have to wait for me guys, I am currently trying to fix my NEW computer. It does not give sound which is annoying as ****ing hell ****s.

[Maurkov]

So, moving this battle forward is less important than... sound? I see how we rate.

[Morbius]

So, moving this battle forward is less important than... sound? I see how we rate.

I think he means that the PC is out to the tech support place/store whatever... (very anoying, mine got stuck there for almost 5 months)

[Bayar]

I think he means that the PC is out to the tech support place/store whatever... (very anoying, mine got stuck there for almost 5 months)

Dropped it off today. the tehnicians there are baffled. It seems that the drivers are installed properly (****ing tech support questioning my ability to install drivers) but still no sound. they said 2-7 days to find out what happened.

On another unrelated note, I lost all my books except for the PHB.

[Maurkov]

Lost like, "I can't remember where I put them," or lost like, "there was this tornado...?"

You're having a tough week, Bayar. I'm sorry.

On your comp, did the OS detect the hardware? Did the right driver show up in device manager (going out on a limb and assuming it's windows)? Did you have the speaker cables plugged into the right ports? Inside, is the headphone jack wired to the card?

[Bayar]

Lost like, "I can't remember where I put them," or lost like, "there was this tornado...?"

You're having a tough week, Bayar. I'm sorry.

On your comp, did the OS detect the hardware? Did the right driver show up in device manager (going out on a limb and assuming it's windows)? Did you have the speaker cables plugged into the right ports? Inside, is the headphone jack wired to the card?

:sigh: Yes to all of the above.

I will try to find the LOS checks so I can continue the match...

Edit: Need LOS...oh wow.

[Maurkov]

I'm pretty sure that Leaf, Cyn, and the hippogriff are visible from all points in the arena, and that you are invisible.

[Morbius]

That triggers Leaf's readied action:

Leaf grabs the other scroll. With powerful wings the hippogriff launches into the air and flies to O14-P15, 75'.

Do we need LoS checks anymore? Where is Kor and what are each of you holding?

Now its Bayar's turn.

Here is your LOS Bayar

[Bayar]

I'm pretty sure that Leaf, Cyn, and the hippogriff are visible from all points in the arena, and that you are invisible.

Joy. If I am within range of charging, I will charge Cyn. If not, I will just modify my turn.

Kor - Round 4

Charging Cyn, raging and power attacking(2 points of BAB into 4 points of damage.

I appear in the closest square to Cyn and swing a Greatsword at him.

Attack:[roll0]
Damage:[roll1]

Stats:
HP:25/25
AC: 11 T: 7 FF: 10 (Dunno what bonuses with Prot VS Chaos...)
Crystals of returning are equipped on: MW spiked chain, Sungliin
Location: Y5
Buffs: Invisibility 3/30
Prot VS Chaos: 3/10
Charge: +2 Atk -2 AC 1/1
Rage: +4 STR, CON -2 AC +2 WILL 1/7
Everything on sheet is on my persona.

Not done.

[Morbius]

... Bayar they are 70 feet above the ground flying:smallconfused:

[Bayar]

... Bayar they are 70 feet abot the ground flying:smallconfused:

Wait, what ? :eek:

damn, I cant jump that high...

[Morbius]

As I just said the are at O14-P15, mounted on a hippogriff flying at 75 feet high.

[stupnick]

heh.. that changes things huh : )

[Morbius]

Since we are at this you are 75' above the lowest area correct? So you are in fact just 55' above MitS right?

[Maurkov]

That is correct. We're 75' above the arena floor; 55' above the top of the ziggurat.
Damage:(2d6+16)[24]Suddenly this flying thing seems like a really good idea.

[Morbius]

That is correct. We're 75' above the arena floor; 55' above the top of the ziggurat.Suddenly this flying thing seems like a really good idea.

Does 5d6 falling damage (for each one) seems like a good idea for you?

And since we are at it if you are riding without a saddle do you even have 50% chance to remain mounted or do you simply fall if unconcious?

[stupnick]

Ooo you threatening to knock us off the mount.. that's not kewl :p


first you gotta get to us

[Maurkov]

Unless you've got a ranged trip attack, I don't see the danger. If you KO someone, well, does the extra 5d6 matter?

Anyone want to figure out how much damage Cyn would do if he landed on you?

[Morbius]

Anyone want to figure out how much damage Cyn would do if he landed on you?

I was actually thinking about that as well and how we should pick on what square he falls. I mean I don't think he could just pick one, so would it be a d4 or did I missed some rule?

[stupnick]

omg the Cyn bomb.. it wouldn't be the first....

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88539&page=5

top post...

i threw myself out of the tree at drago in my last fight.

[Bayar]

A couple of things I noticed:

1. The Hippogrif is large size but I dont think that 2 medium creatures can ride it at the same time. It does not say in any rulebook that it is allowed, and by going with the Horse rules, I'd say you cant. (since you need a large mount to use in the first place)

2. You are both riding bareback, so you both take -5 penalty to ride checks. You need an exotic saddle BTW...

3. Think that a hippogrif is ill suited for as a mount (I might be wrong) so you take another -5 penalty to ride checks.

4. According to the "Stay in Saddle" rules, you have to make a ride check to stay in saddle if your mount rears or bolts unexpectantly or if you take damage.

5. According to the Hippogrif rules on "Training a Hippogrif", it says that you have to train it before it can bear a rider in combat. That would imply that he is not trained for war and that you need to roll ride checks for it to do anything at all, since it is currently in combat...

So yeah, awaiting the refs with ref hats on...

[Maurkov]

1. The Hippogrif is large size but I dont think that 2 medium creatures can ride it at the same time. It does not say in any rulebook that it is allowed, and by going with the Horse rules, I'd say you cant. (since you need a large mount to use in the first place)We're well within light encumbrance. I don't see why a man and child (sized man) couldn't ride together.


2. You are both riding bareback, so you both take -5 penalty to ride checks. You need an exotic saddle BTW...Exotic is debatable. Hippogriffs middle part is distinctly horse-like. Yes, there's a -5 for no saddle.


3. Think that a hippogrif is ill suited for as a mount (I might be wrong) so you take another -5 penalty to ride checks.Again, horse shaped. It's not like we're riding a dire bat or astral construct or something.


4. According to the "Stay in Saddle" rules, you have to make a ride check to stay in saddle if your mount rears or bolts unexpectantly or if you take damage.True, might be a problem for Cyn. Leaf makes this check automatically, even with the -5 for lacking a saddle.


5. According to the Hippogrif rules on "Training a Hippogrif", it says that you have to train it before it can bear a rider in combat. That would imply that he is not trained for war and that you need to roll ride checks for it to do anything at all, since it is currently in combat...It attacks by default. I think that qualifies as trained for war. It's also beyond tame (for Leaf). Sure, lets let a ref adjudicate whether it can serve as a mount.

[Bayar]

2. It says so in the PHB, in the exotic saddle section...specifically says Hippogrif.


1. Why I brought this up ? Because it can be abused in a team game, like it is right now. Cyn does not have ranks in ride skil so he lets the other guy control the mount. How do you think this sounds ? Fair ? Yeah, for you it is fair. For everyone else...not so much.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

I'll research the number of riders per mount issue. However, as hippogriff is specifically listed in the exotic saddle section, I feel it's safe to assume that it is capable of serving as a mount.

I am currently having difficulty accessing the SRD from work, but here are the items that need to be referenced:

Number of riders: Does anywhere specifically allow or disallow this? Does the mounted combat, handle animal, or riding description specifically reference the mount as being able to be trained to carry a single rider?

For the Hippogriff and the auto-combatant issue: While I'm not sure I agree with Bayar's interpretation, in order for the hippogriff to be treated differently than any other mount, there must be explicit text indicating that the mount should have different attack rules than a horse or mule. Otherwise, while it's being used as a mount, it must follow all rules for a mount. When it is not being mounted, unless there is a concrete way of communicating with the creature, Handle Animal checks will need to be used to command the hippogriff.

[Maurkov]

For the Hippogriff and the auto-combatant issue: While I'm not sure I agree with Bayar's interpretation, in order for the hippogriff to be treated differently than any other mount, there must be explicit text indicating that the mount should have different attack rules than a horse or mule.Well, the heavy horse entry looks like this:


Full Attack: 2 hooves -1 melee (1d6+1*)At 3 HD and STR 16, that means it's taking -5 to all attacks.

The war-trained Heavy Warhorse:


Full Attack: 2 hooves +6 melee (1d6+4) and bite +1 melee (1d4+2)No penalty (and more strength).

The Hippogriff entry looks like this:


Full Attack: 2 claws +6 melee (1d4+4) and bite +1 melee (1d8+2)That's no penalty, which leads me to believe it's war-ready. Smarter than a horse, the hippogriff is a magical beast. I figured Leaf would be using animal empathy (which can be used on magical beasts), but that he automatically succeeds because the summoned creature is his willing servant. If he has to use HA (and doesn't auto-succeed because it's conjured), I need a DC, and whether that means I have to rewind to the last round to make a check.

Maybe I should have mentioned this tactic in the main thread, but that spoils the surprise.

Edit: Huh. Claws do less damage that hoofs? What an evolutionary dead end.

[Bayar]

Well, the heavy horse entry looks like this:

At 3 HD and STR 16, that means it's taking -5 to all attacks.

The war-trained Heavy Warhorse:

No penalty (and more strength).

The Hippogriff entry looks like this:

That's no penalty, which leads me to believe it's war-ready. Smarter than a horse, the hippogriff is a magical beast. I figured Leaf would be using animal empathy (which can be used on magical beasts), but that he automatically succeeds because the summoned creature is his willing servant.

Maybe I should have mentioned this tactic in the main thread, but that spoils the surprise.

Edit: Huh. Claws do less damage that hoofs? What an evolutionary dead end.

Hoofs do bludgeoning damage that breaks bones and stuff. Claws only rend the flesh.

Edit: And unless trained for mounting combat, he is not war-ready, regardless of the stats. remember, it uses those stats to hunt as well, but having a biped or a couple on his back might hinder him from doing what he knows...

[Maurkov]

Check out GURPS. Being bludgeoned is less un-good than sliced (pierced is even worst). Equally hard, I'd rather be thumped with a baseball bat than slashed with a katana. You?

And no, I'm not asking a high ref to change the hippogriff's damage, just making an observation.

[Bayar]

Check out GURPS. Being bludgeoned is less un-good than sliced (pierced is even worst). Equally hard, I'd rather be thumped with a baseball bat than slashed with a katana. You?

And no, I'm not asking a high ref to change the hippogriff's damage, just making an observation.

Baseball bat and katana are not equal on the weapon threat chart. More like warhammer and katana. Or kitchen knife and bat. plus, if you are hit once with the bat, you can get internal bleeding that will kill you anyway.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Further research (and about 30 secs of SRD access).

Noting whether attacks are treated as secondary or not is not enough to determine training. All hippogriffs have the same stats laid out in the SRD. All hippogriffs must undergo 6 weeks of training to become capable of bearing riders. Nothing in the entry suggests that all hippogriffs come with this standard. In fact, the listing of the need to train hippogriffs actually supports the contrary.

Thus, the hippogriff is not trained for combat riding.

Second, summoned creatures automatically follow your instructions to the best of their ability. However, if you cannot communicate with the animal, the commands must be simple in nature. As the animal isn't capable of bearing a rider in combat, "let me ride you" would fall outside the bounds of that.

I'll give a reasonable amount of time for rebuttals before rewinding the match to the first illegal action.

[Maurkov]

Well, darn. I smeared the difference between "willing" and "can" and assumed that the summoning-borne obedience would carry further. Looks like Leaf could, as a full round action, attempt a DC 30 HA check to allow the non-animal to perform a trick it doesn't know, but that seems like a long shot at second level. Where do we pick up? At the top of Leaf's round, just after the beast appeared?

I should have conjured a bat, which doesn't have the 6 week training requirement.

[Morbius]

Hum... does the won't obey riding commands also means he can't mount it? You said yourself you could use a DC 30 HA check to make it obey you so I don't see how the action was illegal...

[Maurkov]

I believe the illegal part was not spending a full round action to make the check.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Ref Text Wall +3 (any can read, spoilered to keep thread clean):
As it's a summoned creature, we're not following mount rules for it unless it's being used as a mount.

Further, we've been referencing this as a Hippogriff. It's not. It's a Celestial Hippogriff. In this case, it makes a difference. Celestial creatures have a minimum intelligence of 3, and a native plane that is celestial.

All creatures with intelligence 3 or greater have the capacity to understand language. Going with the premise that the language such a creature could understand would be the default language of its native environment, then the hippogriff can understand Celestial. If the hippogriff summoner can speak Celestial, then the animal will follow any command that can be relayed to it.

If not, the celestial creature will follow the rules for summon monster. It will attack your opponents to the best of its ability. This precludes riding.

If you wish to bypass that, you must be able to communicate with the creature. Handle animal can be used to do that, normally, for animals. Not magical beasts. Epic Handle animal has usages for handle animal that apply to magical beasts, but I see no DC's for handling or pushing, only for training and rearing. Thus, we have a case where the rules for training the creature are outlined, but not the rules for accessing that training. Sigh.

Further, the rules listed in the Monster entry for hippogriff contradict the standard rules for training magical beasts. Thus, we'll be treating the Hippogriff entry as Primary Source for hippogriff training. DC 25 to train. Since Handling and Pushing DC's aren't listed anywhere, we'll go with the same DC's listed in the Skill entry for animals, unless anyone has an objection to that.

First thing anyone trying to ride the animal will need to do is Push the animalmagical beast to not attack, to override the Summon Monster spell's basic commands. Then you can deal with pushing it for riding. All DC's will follow Handle Animal entry.


Based on all this, the first illegal action happened in post 65. Again, I'll give reasonable time to offer any counter arguments. In the absence of any, I'll reverse play to that point in the AM.

[Morbius]

I wont say anything more at least

[Maurkov]

Further, we've been referencing this as a Hippogriff. It's not.It is (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonNaturesAllyII.htm).

Not to veer off topic, but "[a]ny creature with an Intelligence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/intro.htm) score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise)." The celestial template doesn't note otherwise, so it's common; Stupid but RAW. It's off topic because regular hippogriffs are INT 2.

So the Animal Empathy class feature would not count as "communicating" for purposes of telling it not to attack?

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Assuming you're referring to the druid's Wild Empathy ability, no.

By Text, the ability improves attitude, which could possibly get it to stop attacking you, unless it were magically compelled to. (thus, you cannot use wild empathy to stop an opponent's summoned creature from attacking you, as it is forced to attack regardless of attitude, by the text of the spell).

But you're not trying to get it to stop attacking you. You're getting it to stop attacking someone else. And making it like you is not an effective way to communicate "don't attack him".

To qualify as communicating a command, the listed text of the ability you're using must directly alter the creature's ACTIONS. Simply modifying attitude wouldn't qualify as communicating a command.

[Maurkov]

((Back from vacation. Will post shortly.))

[Maurkov]

((I'm going to need more clarification about how Leaf is able to direct his summoned creatures. I'll ask in the main thread.))

Leaf Round 4 Init 15

As Leaf completes the scroll, a feisty looking hippogriff appears X14-Y15. Having no control over the beast, it chooses MitS as his dodge buddy, launches forward, and attacks.

Fly: X14-Y15 0' to T14-U15 20' (60' of move) to P14-Q15 20' (+20' of move). Having traveled more than 50', the 'griff doesn't have to land.
[roll0] [roll1] miss chances are rolled by refs?

For those that can see Leaf, Leaf drops the scroll and casts a spell.
entangle centered R18-S19; 40' radius; DC Reflex 14.I'd like a ref to tell me how visible that is.

He steps 5' to Y14 and picks up one of the scrolls dropped by Cyn.
The scroll of ESNAII.

He whispers to Cyn,"'Ware the Entangle. It covers South and West."

I'd like a ref to adjudicate the passive sense checks, the results of which Leaf will also relay to Cyn.

Done.

Status
Leaf
[roll2] [roll3]
HP16
AC20 t14 ff17
Location: Y13
Hands: Shield, Scroll of ESNAII
Active Spells: ESNAII (15 rounds)

Augmented Ashbound HIPPOGRIFF
[roll4] [roll5]
HP 31
AC 15 (16 vs. MitS via dodge feat) (–1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13
Location P14-Q15 20'
full statsLarge Magical Beast; HD 3d10+15 (31 hp); Init +2; Spd 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 100 ft. (average); AC 15 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13; BAB +3/+13; Attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d4+6) and bite +6 melee (1d8+3); Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.; SA -; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Saves F+8 R+5 W+2; Abilities ST22 DX15 CN20 IN2 WS13 CH8; Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8; Feats: Dodge, Wingover

Hippogriffs are aggressive flying creatures that combine features of horses and giant eagles. Voracious omnivores, hippogriffs will hunt humanoids as readily as any other meal. A typical hippogriff is 9 feet long, has a wingspan of 20 feet, and weighs 1,000 pounds.

COMBAT
Hippogriffs dive at their prey and strike with their clawed forelegs. When they cannot dive, they slash with claws and beak. Mated pairs and flights of these creatures attack in concert, diving repeatedly to drive away or kill intruders. Hippogriffs fight to the death to defend their nests and their hatchlings, which are prized as aerial mounts and fetch a handsome price in many civilized areas.

Skills: Hippogriffs have a +4 racial bonus on Spot checks.

Bud
[roll6] [roll7]
HP13
AC20 t12 ff18
Location: Y13
Active Command: Guard
SQ: Scent

[Morbius]

You can roll miss chances if you want it's just concealment. So... Unless the hippogriff has SR a invisible barriers deflects his attack (hehe)

[Maurkov]

I might as well get into practice. [roll0]

Edit: I have offended the RNG.

[stupnick]

so is it my turn now then??

also how do you not have control over your summon?? you can talk to it and give it commands, it speaks common.

[Maurkov]

A Hippogriff is a 2 INT magical beast. It doesn't speak a regular language and it's immune to Speak with Animal. While I don't agree with most of what Talic ruled :smallamused:, if Leaf can't communicate* with it, he can't make it not attack. Leaf will have to get a Mindlink tatoo for the next battle. Edit: Mindlink has an Int 3 lower bound.

If you'd like to call in Kyeudo for GM Override, you are welcome to. I was feeling selfish for delaying the match this long.

We should get a ref to summarize the results of Leaf's turn (for those who can observe it), but yes, it's your turn.

*'Communicate' has been defined far more strictly than I had anticipated.

[Bayar]

So, who's turn is now ?

[stupnick]

if i am thinking correctly it is my turn, but before i post Maurkov is requesting a post from the refs....

[stupnick]

going to attempt to get another los check in here so we can get this moving, but it seems refs don't want to come and do one..

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Alright. Summary of Leaf's turn for those that can see him.

Leaf casts a spell from a scroll, summoning a hippogriff in X14-Y15. The hippogriff flies to P14-Q15 (20' up) and attacks MitS, but it's attacks fail to connect.

Leaf then drops the scroll and casts a spell. The area within 40' of the R18-S19 intersection becomes subject to an Entangle effect, DC 14 Reflex saves for everyone there. The effect is visible unless the plants are under an invisibility effect.

Leaf moves toY14 and picks up one of the scrolls dropped by Cyn. He whispers to Cyn.


At least, that's what seems to have occurred to me. As for LoS, I don't want to try to untangle that without knowing what is going on. I'll leave that to someone with a clue, lest I screw it up badly.

[Bayar]

LOS ? :smallconfused:

[stupnick]

yes... so i know where everyone is located, if i can see anyone, and the other little joyous things that come out of LOS checks...

[Maurkov]

Lets do the LoS ref a favor and repost our most recent stat blocks. It's not a treat to have to paw through 5 pages of postings to find everyone's last known position.

Here's mine

Last move: Round 4 Init 15
Stat block:
Leaf
Passive Listen - (1d20+9)[10] Passive Spot - (1d20+8)[14]
HP16
AC20 t14 ff17
Location: Y13
Hands: Shield, Scroll of ESNAII
Active Spells: ESNAII (15 rounds)
Entangle centered R18-S19; 40' radius; DC Reflex 14. (20 rounds)

Augmented Ashbound HIPPOGRIFF
Passive Listen - (1d20+4)[6] Passive Spot - (1d20+8)[9]
HP 31
AC 15 (16 vs. MitS via dodge feat) (–1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13
Location P14-Q15 20'
full stats

Large Magical Beast; HD 3d10+15 (31 hp); Init +2; Spd 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 100 ft. (average); AC 15 (–1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13; BAB +3/+13; Attack: 2 claws +11 melee (1d4+6) and bite +6 melee (1d8+3); Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.; SA -; SQ Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Saves F+8 R+5 W+2; Abilities ST22 DX15 CN20 IN2 WS13 CH8; Skills: Listen +4, Spot +8; Feats: Dodge, Wingover

Hippogriffs are aggressive flying creatures that combine features of horses and giant eagles. Voracious omnivores, hippogriffs will hunt humanoids as readily as any other meal. A typical hippogriff is 9 feet long, has a wingspan of 20 feet, and weighs 1,000 pounds.

COMBAT
Hippogriffs dive at their prey and strike with their clawed forelegs. When they cannot dive, they slash with claws and beak. Mated pairs and flights of these creatures attack in concert, diving repeatedly to drive away or kill intruders. Hippogriffs fight to the death to defend their nests and their hatchlings, which are prized as aerial mounts and fetch a handsome price in many civilized areas.

Skills: Hippogriffs have a +4 racial bonus on Spot checks.

Bud
Passive Listen - (1d20+5)[9] Passive Spot - (1d20+5)[6]
HP13
AC20 t12 ff18
Location: Y13
Active Command: Guard
SQ: Scent

[stupnick]

my most recent stat block


stats
Location Z14
HP: 14/30 (after MiTS hits me)
AC: 10
T: 7 F: 11

[Morbius]

Monster in the Shadows(with wings)tm 3rd to act - round 3


Mits moves to O15, only his piercing yellow eyes visible among the shadows that engulf him.
Then with inhuman strengh he uses his sling to send a rock flying towards Cyn
[roll0](-2 from range added)
[roll1]


refs If mits steps on spikes during his move I will change his action


Should be done unless the refs say otherwise, but there is no need to hold the match. Next

Mits’ Stats (for refs)

Location: O15
HP: 20/20
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 15, Touch 11, Flat-footed 14 (cover bonus and +2 vs Cyn not added)
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will -2
Attacks: +9 MW greatsword (2D6+9), +3 10xjavelins (1d6+6), +3 30xsling (1d4+6)
Held/worn: 3/3brute gauntlets, 2x potion of CLW, potion of protection from good
Effects: concealment, protection from chaos 8/10
Avaliable Manuevers/Stances:Flame's blessing, counter charge, sudden leap, burning blade, shadow blade technique
Reactive rolls:
[roll2]
[roll3]


I will just post my entire turn

[Bayar]

My stat block...from ****ing page 2 :smalleek:.

HP:21/21
AC: 15 T: 11 FF: 14
Crystals of returning are equipped on: MW spiked chain, Sungliin
Location: Y5
Buffs: Invisibility 3/30
Prot VS Chaos: 2/10
Everything on sheet is on my persona.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

That is certainly helpful. Let's see if I can not screw this up.

First, a plainly visible Entangle effect extends 40ft from the R18-S19 intersection.

Second, everyone can plainly hear someone running in the northeast section of the map.

Leaf

Cyn: Z14
MitS: O15


Cyn

Leaf: Y13
Bud: Y13
Hippo: P14-Q15 20'
MitS: O15


MitS

Leaf: Y13
Bud: Y13
Hippo: P14-Q15 20'
Cyn: Z14

Reflex Save DC 14 against the Entangle.


Kor

Leaf: Y13
Bud: Y13
Hippo: P14-Q15 20'
Cyn: Z14
MitS: O15

You didn't roll a Move Silently check, so that's a natural 0, +1 for skill modifier, -20 for running, and the worst distance penalty is only -5, so they can hear you on a Natural 1 Listen check.

[Morbius]

[roll0]

Oh I forgot about that

[Maurkov]

Dang. I wish I had heard that before laying down the entangle.

[Bayar]

My turn ? :smallbiggrin:

[Morbius]

My turn ? :smallbiggrin:

I think it's Cyn now, he is after leaf correct? Or did we had any change in the initiative

[stupnick]

Cyn

Reflex save for the entangle
[roll0]

I will rage

Throwing a spear at MiTS
[roll1] +8 normal, -2 range, -2 cover, +2 rage
[roll2]

Stats

Location Z14
HP: 14/30
Rage HP: 4/4
AC: 8
T: 5 F: 9
Rage 1/10 rounds

[Maurkov]

I don't think you need to make the entangle save. I was pretty careful to miss you.

You've got a move action left?

[stupnick]

well we are in the area of the entangle, so i was making the save...

if not needed, i will move action to draw out a potion

[Maurkov]

Here's the spell extent:http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee205/Maurkov/Arena-Base-Map.gif

Draw potion; Done? (Need to spoiler out which potion.)

[stupnick]

ok if that's the case, i am to use to 4th edition where it is just a large square.... makes things so much easier.... instead of drawing the potion i will be moving.

with a noice being heard to the north of us, i will move south. moving to z18 and get stuck there..

[Maurkov]

Um... okay. Bayar?

[Bayar]

K.

Kor - Round X (forgot which one)

I will charge Leaf, appearing in Y12 after I make the attack. I should find him FF. I will activate my Brute gauntlets 3 charges for +4 morale bonus to STR check's skill checks and melee damage. I will also rage for +4 STR and CON.

So the modifiers are:

Attack: 2 BAB+8 STR+1 MW sword+2 Charge=13
Damage: 2d6+12 STR+4 morale

Leaf will be able to see me whirl my greatsword in a vicious way towards him. And he will be flat footed.

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

Edit: Seems that you died. Will post my location when a ref confirms that I actually conected, or that my actions were legal. Too much paranoia for me to post it now.

[Maurkov]

Bayar, may I crack open that spoiler to see if you missed any calculations?

Ref: Does the dog get an attack on Kor when Kor moves within 5' and is pinpointed by the scent ability? Ie, when given the instruction "guard" does the dog take a readied action to attack?

[Bayar]

here you go:

Attack: 2 BAB+8 STR+1 MW sword+2 Charge=13
Damage: 2d6+12 STR+4 morale

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo



Ref: Does the dog get an attack on Kor when Kor moves within 5' and is pinpointed by the scent ability? Ie, when given the instruction "guard" does the dog take a readied action to attack?

I would say that is a reasonable interpretation of the rules.

[Maurkov]

Okay. Go Bud!

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

(Showing irrepressible optimism...)
[roll4]
[roll5]

Well, that's a few points damage, at least. I don't think you can fail that trip check. If the charge line is valid, Leaf gets KO'd.

[Bayar]

It is valid since I was in Y5. So a direct line.

Trip: [roll0] (8 STR + 4 morale)

Now that you got KO'd, does your Hippogrif go *puff* ?

[Morbius]

But Bayar... your attack bonus indeed is odd it was not supposed to be +13.......it was supposed to be +15 you forgot the bonus from invisibility:smallbiggrin:)

(I bet that now leaf is not felling well for sending the hippo to attack MitS, but I am more worried about his doggy anyway)

[Bayar]

But Bayar... your attack bonus indeed is odd it was not supposed to be +13.......it was supposed to be +15 you forgot the bonus from invisibility:smallbiggrin:)

(I bet that now leaf is not felling well for sending the hippo to attack MitS, but I am more worried about his doggy anyway)

Oh, forgot about that one :biggrin:

[Maurkov]

It is valid since I was in Y5. So a direct line
That is not a valid charge line. Leaf is in Y14, Bud the dog is in Y13.

Edit. Ah. I misquoted my stat block. My move (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5097731&postcount=138) (you can break the first spoiler) was to Y14.

Well, you have enough move to walk there, and hit by more than enough. I don't know what happens to Leaf's spells. I assume anything requiring concentration ends and everything else persists.

[stupnick]

i would assume everything else persists, and also that your dog would still continue to attack to defend your position, as he knows your not dead but disabled.

[Morbius]

Maurkov why does your spear deals only 1d6 damage? Is that correct, I could swear it was 1d8...
Assuming Bayar is done and everything else is sorted...


Monster in the Shadows(with wings)tm 3rd to act - round 4:smalleek:


Mits activates his brute gauntlets using all charges and attempt to break free from the plants
[roll0]

If I pass the check and the hippo is not by my right side
Mits jumps from the corner and glides 4 squares to the right (can't see the map so I will post the correct location later)

Done, if everything checks

Mits’ Stats (for refs)

Location:
HP: 10/20
Speed: 40 ft.
AC: 15, Touch 11, Flat-footed 14 (+2 vs Cyn not added)
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will -2
Attacks: +9 MW greatsword (2D6+9), +3 10xjavelins (1d6+6), +3 29xsling (1d4+6)
Held/worn: 0/3brute gauntlets, 2x potion of CLW, potion of protection from good
Effects: concealment, protection from chaos 7/10
Avaliable Manuevers/Stances:Flame's blessing, counter charge, sudden leap, burning blade, shadow blade technique
Reactive rolls:

[Maurkov]

Leaf doesn't have a spear, but if he did, it would do 1d6. But I think you're talking to stupnick (Cyn)?

[stupnick]

it was a javalin, i mislabeled it.

but were we done resolving leaf? since he was not allowed to be charged b/c of the dog.

[Bayar]

it was a javalin, i mislabeled it.

but were we done resolving leaf? since he was not allowed to be charged b/c of the dog.

He still got pwn'd. I just didnt charged apparently.

[stupnick]

you could get to y13 from where you were at w/o charging?

[Maurkov]

Y5->X13 or Z13 = 35' (of a 40' move), so yes, he could get there without charging. His attack roll was good enough to hit without the charge bonus.

I could whine and carry on about retargeting the Entangle, since I guessed he'd go south and didn't know I could hear him until after I posted my turn. That was my mistake. I thought there had been an LoS/passive sense check since his last move, but there wasn't. I didn't care so much when I thought we'd be able to fly out of danger, and when that got shot down, I didn't go back and check.

Good luck in there.

[Morbius]

Ok, I can see the map now, so for the records MitS ended his move at S15 (+15 feet up from the ground floor)

[stupnick]

i beleive you would provoke an attack of opportunity from the hippogryph for moving since it is engaged with you.

[Morbius]

OK... let me advance the result for you... it misses. Protection from xxxx line of spells vs summoned creature.

[Maurkov]

O15->S15? Are you tumbling through the hippogriff?

[Morbius]

O15->S15? Are you tumbling through the hippogriff?

Oh... I could swear he was 5 feet above mits..., so make it S 14

[Maurkov]

Do I continue to control the pets? Should I roll to stabilize Leaf? If Cyn has spare time and administers a healing potion, could Leaf be back in the fight?

[Bayar]

Do I continue to control the pets? Should I roll to stabilize Leaf? If Cyn has spare time and administers a healing potion, could Leaf be back in the fight?

You could control your dog. The summon has a mind of it's own. You are at -9. Yes. Yes.

[Maurkov]

I'd like a ref to adjudicate MitS's move before I control the hippogriff. MitS was in O15. The hippogriff is in P14-Q15, 20' up, heading west. MitS wants to move to S15 or S14 or something?

Also, Kor could have moved east or west of the dog before pruning Leaf, but he should probably choose before Cyn's turn.

The following doesn't depend on either answer, so I'll try to move the match forward:
Leaf Round 5

Roll to stabilize[roll0]

Bud

[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]

[Morbius]

[roll0]

If I pass the check and the hippo is not by my right side
[Spoiler]Mits jumps from the corner and glides 4 squares to the right (can't see the map so I will post the correct location later)[spoiler]

Done, if everything checks


I removed the spoilers, and when I was told that he DO was by my side I corrected my move to S14, I don't need to move by his squares to reach S14, it does would provoke an AoO, if he could take one anyway...

[Maurkov]

Can you say east instead of right? There's no facing in 3.5 (unless you're flying). For clarity, what path are you taking from O15->S14?

[Bayar]

East, think in Z14. Could be wrong though.

Oh and your dog misses.

[Morbius]

Can you say east instead of right? There's no facing in 3.5 (unless you're flying). For clarity, what path are you taking from O15->S14?

Sure, I just moved diagonal.... oh, I see now what is the problem..., I was supposed to have written S16 and somehow wrote S14....

His path was supposed to be P16 then S16. I am really sorry...

EDIT: Also...

If it's just a move, no. Because it's an illegal move. Characters cannot move through squares occupied by hostile creatures. The move would have to be redone.

If the move was legal for some reason, such as a bull rush or a sufficiently high tumble check, then yes, it would dismiss the protection.

So Mits is on S16 and if Leaf is done I believe it's Cyn's turn

[Maurkov]

[roll0] (rebuffed by Protection from x)

Hippogriff

P14-Q15->O13-P14 (5')
O13-P14->H13-I14 (35')
wingover(10')
H13-I14->O13-Q14 (40')
O13-Q14->Q14-R15 (10') (altitude is still 20')

[roll1] (rebuffed by Protection from x)

Cyn's turn.

[stupnick]

Cyn

Double post inc.

reflex save
[roll0]

[stupnick]

Throwing his other javalin at MiTS

[roll0]
[roll1]

Cmon Lucky Dice

Move action draw out a vial of Acidic Fire

[Morbius]

You still need to roll for concealment...

[stupnick]

ah ok.. damn concealment.. how did you get that anyways : p

[roll0] i will choose high

well i miss... the end of poor cyn as we know him is coming up


why did you all have to ruin our plans!!! we just wanted to wipe the floor with you.. what was the harm in that?

[stupnick]

actually unless you have total concealment, i believe that will be a hit. since it's only 20%... so since i picked high, i would actually hit. since it's only a 1-20 that i would miss.. : )

[Bayar]

Probably from the hippogrif, or pillars or something...or a potion...forgot.

My turn or MITS ?

[Morbius]

Leaf's pets acted, then Cyn threw another stick at Mits (ack 0 HP...), and now it should be you Bayar.

And the concealment is from a stance, any round that Mits move at least 10 feet he gains concealment while it's active (thus the engulfed by shadows effect and even his name)

[Bayar]

K. I charge Cyn. And Power attack (2 BAB points into 4 damage points).

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

I come from north right next to you BTW.

Stats:
AC: 11 (13 if not charging)
HP: 16/25
Rage 2/7

Edit: did you die yet ?

[Morbius]

I have not checked the charge line yet, but doesn't the doggy gets an AoO? (vs your charge AC)


EDIT: Yeah, I think the dog is on the way of your charge Bayar... you were on Y12 and the dog on Y13 right? Charging Cyn that was on Z14 would not be possible.

I don't think it can do enough damage to kill you but it could trip you and cancel your attack

[Maurkov]

East, think in Z14. Could be wrong though.

He's provisionally got a line to you.

Bud's AoO

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]

No help there.

[Bayar]

I have not checked the charge line yet, but doesn't the doggy gets an AoO? (vs your charge AC)


EDIT: Yeah, I think the dog is on the way of your charge Bayar... you were on Y12 and the dog on Y13 right? Charging Cyn that was on Z14 would not be possible.

I don't think it can do enough damage to kill you but it could trip you and cancel your attack

no I am in Z14. Cyn is somewhere downwards in the AoE of that nasty spell.

Edit: Wait, I am in Z13.

[Maurkov]

Stupnick, are we done?

[stupnick]

yes it seems that way.

[Bayar]

Kor would high-five with you MitS, but you cant take a standard action to hi-5 or you will drop into negatives :smallbiggrin:

[Morbius]

Actually I can fight normally until -10 so

*high-five *

[chilepepper]

High Ref chilepepper

Kor and Mits are the winners. -insert clever saying here-

I don't think the XP/GP is listed right, posting in the Waiting room...

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

The GP/XP rewards are listed wrong. They should be the same as for a standard 1v1 match (there are twice the opponents, but the prize is split evenly between the victors).