Best 3rd party books?

[overduegalaxy]

As a DM, I'm always looking for places to draw material to counter PCs who know just as much as I do about the game (I'm sure they have the same problem when DMing for me).

So, what're the better books that aren't WotC-approved? Or even, to be more general, what brands are fairly reliable?

[JaxGaret]

DUNGEONSCAPE.

I can't stress it enough. Get Dungeonscape. Now.

The DMGII is also good material for DMs.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

BoEF. No one respects it, but it actually is one of the more versatile resources out there.

Dragon Compendium. Insanely fun stuff.

[sonofzeal]

BoEF. No one respects it, but it actually is one of the more versatile resources out there.
Wait... no-one respects it? Once you get past the name and actually READ the thing, Book of Erotic Fantasy turns out to be one of the better supplements out there, 3rd party or otherwise. I've heard practically nothing but good things about it, and one of my current characters is using some of the spell list from that book and loving it. I consider the sociological sections on how each race views love and romance to be cannon.

[Matthew]

With regards to adventures, Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games are pretty good, on the whole. A lot depends on what you are looking for. A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe by Expeditious Retreat is highly acclaimed (and rightly so).

But if you're looking for rules to build characters, well... there's a whole bunch of stuff in the various Books of Eldritch Might, Book of Hallowed Might, etc... all the stuff by Malhavoc Press really.

In terms of monsters, you might want to take a look at the Tome of Horrors by Necromancer Games.

[ghost_warlock]

DUNGEONSCAPE.

I can't stress it enough. Get Dungeonscape. Now.

The DMGII is also good material for DMs.

Those aren't 3rd-party books.

I'd vote for Hyperconscious (http://montecook.com/mpress_Hyper.html) and Untapped Potential (http://www.lulu.com/content/1241702). Both are excellent psionics supplements, available as .pdfs from various online stores.

[monty]

Another vote for BoEF. Once you get past the immature giggles, it has some good material.

[RTGoodman]

In terms of monsters, you might want to take a look at the Tome of Horrors by Necromancer Games.

I'll second this. Tome of Horrors is a GREAT book, especially if your players are the type that have Core monsters basically memorized and refuse not to metagame.

BoEF, too - because sometimes you just have to know the mating patterns of goblinoids. :smallwink: Joking aside, though, it is actually a pretty good supplement.

[Ascension]

I support Blackdirge Publishing's Master at Arms series of prestige classes. Their other stuff is alright, too, but I especially like MaA.

[sonofzeal]

In addition to BoEF, I'd also give Iron Kingdoms (Privateer Press) a conditional recommendation. The flavour text is made of AWSM and WIN, but a lot of the PC-related crunch is haphazard. I haven't looked much at their monsters, but I'm guessing the same applies to them - you'll find some stuff that will blow your PCs mind... but you may have to fiddle with it a bit to bring it into balance.

[JaxGaret]

Those aren't 3rd-party books.

Oh woops, I read the OP and forgot all about the thread title, since the OP doesn't say anything about a restriction to 3PP books.

[monty]

So, what're the better books that aren't WotC-approved?

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

[Waspinator]

Warcraft Manual of Monsters:
http://secure1.white-wolf.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=448
If you like the monsters from Warcraft (the RTS games or the MMO), then this is the book for you.

[turkishproverb]

BoEF. No one respects it, but it actually is one of the more versatile resources out there.

Dragon Compendium. Insanely fun stuff.

Agreed on boht. Very useful.

most things by Necromancer are good too.

[Tengu_temp]

BoEF. No one respects it, but it actually is one of the more versatile resources out there.


It's weirdly imbalanced. On the one hand you have feats that give you +2/4/6 to one stat after having sex, and on the other you have a feat that makes you sterile. That's right, you need a feat for that.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

It's weirdly imbalanced. On the one hand you have feats that give you +2/4/6 to one stat after having sex, and on the other you have a feat that makes you sterile. That's right, you need a feat for that.Those are Enhancement bonuses, so they really just save you 36,000 GP at the cost of 3 feats. Not worth it. The other Feat you mentioned gives you immunity to some things. Again, not really worth it, but in reality, most Feats aren't.

[Dhavaer]

It's weirdly imbalanced. On the one hand you have feats that give you +2/4/6 to one stat after having sex, and on the other you have a feat that makes you sterile. That's right, you need a feat for that.

So if you get damaged in/appropriately, do you think you'd get it as a bonus feat? If so: Embrace/Shun The Dark Chaos.


Those are Enhancement bonuses, so they really just save you 36,000 GP at the cost of 3 feats. Not worth it.

They can also be increased with certain items. You can get a +10 enhancement bonus to Intelligence with Tantric+Orbs of Enlightenment+Rod of the Erotic Spirit. Very nice for a female wizard/wu jen/beguiler.

[turkishproverb]

That's right, you need a feat for that.

Good way to avoid DM's using barmaids for long term plothooks if your neutral...

[Waspinator]

Oh, and if you want just plain weird sci-fi-fantasy stuff, Dragonmech and Dragonstar are neat.

[Thurbane]

Tome of Horrors
Advanced Bestiary
Bard's Gate
Book of Familiars

[Hawriel]

With regards to adventures, Dungeon Crawl Classics by Goodman Games are pretty good, on the whole. A lot depends on what you are looking for. A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe by Expeditious Retreat is highly acclaimed (and rightly so).

Oh hell yes. Goodmend games put out great dungeon crawls. They also have there own world if you want to get that. Its a box set. Not only are they fun but you can, with their encuregment, stick there adventures in your own setting.

White Wolf's Sword & sorccery made the Ravenloft books. They are very good.

Green Ronin puts out some nice stuff.

Last but not least are the Quintessential books by Mongoose publishing. They are 3.0/.5 books that are made with the old brown complete book of line from AD&D.

[Dhavaer]

Its a box set.

Discussion of the BoEF must have corrupted my brain again. I read this as 'sex bot'.

[Animefunkmaster]

Dragonmech is neat. Offers a neat future from other settings, definitely an interesting setting in an of itself. Offers some unusual rules for mechs, but is pretty nifty all in all.

[Rei_Jin]

Speaking as an owner of the Book of Erotic Fantasy, let me tell you that the looks of horror on my players faces when I pull it out and tell them to roll percentile dice after a night of tumbling in the sheets.

Worth it every time, especially when I explain to them exactly how long the gestational period will be, and what side effects this will have.

Oh, let's not forget such wonderful spells as Depilatory, Block the Seed, Unseen Lover, etc.

[The Glyphstone]

Goodman Games has some nice stuff in general - I, being in love with beholders, bought their Complete Guide to Beholders and took all of the society/psychology information combined with the physiological traits from Lords of Madness and got some very entertaining critters, far better than bog-standard eye tyrants.

Is BoEF even in print anymore?

[EvilElitest]

I think the Scareed lands were great.

Hey, is anyone selilng these 3rd party books. I would really love to buy some, they are hard for me to get locally
from
EE

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I think the Scareed lands were great.

Hey, is anyone selilng these 3rd party books. I would really love to buy some, they are hard for me to get locally
from
EEAmazon. you can get most of them for ~$10.

[EvilElitest]

Amazon. you can get most of them for ~$10.

hmmmmm, that is wroth considering
from
EE

[FMArthur]

BoEF is a great reference book for D&D sociology in general. Just don't give it to your players if you don't want to make the game sexual in nature. That's not really about maturity, it's just that most of the extra options it gives to players deal with sex or sexuality, whereas the fluff it provides is an invaluable resource to DMs. Immature players will not only shift the game to be entirely sexual, but will start abusing the sexual gameplay in the same way that 'problem solving' happens in regular D&D. Breaking physics while assuming physics reassembles itself to accommodate the aftermath and exploiting rules ambiguity/oversights.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

BoEF is a great reference book for D&D sociology in general. Just don't give it to your players if you don't want to make the game sexual in nature. That's not really about maturity, it's just that most of the extra options it gives to players deal with sex or sexuality, whereas the fluff it provides is an invaluable resource to DMs. Immature players will not only shift the game to be entirely sexual, but will start abusing the sexual gameplay in the same way that 'problem solving' happens in regular D&D. Breaking physics while assuming physics reassembles itself to accommodate the aftermath and exploiting rules ambiguity/oversights.I don't even want to think about what would happen if you introduced Munchkinism and the BoEF. Physics and I would both cry.

[FMArthur]

It's very efficient sex. Strange circumstances, however. Like one player who could summon his partner at any time for sex, or the other player who diplo-cheesed someone into climbing into a custom made piece of armor that attached to his waist and... provided pleasure on the go. Constantly. (no I did not allow the second one) :smallwink:

[thegurullamen]

It's very efficient sex. Strange circumstances, however. Like one player who could summon his partner at any time for sex, or the other player who diplo-cheesed someone into climbing into a custom made piece of armor that attached to his waist and... provided pleasure on the go. Constantly. (no I did not allow the second one) :smallwink:

See, this is why I disallow even discussion of BoEF. It might have some nice points, but they're mixed with a) immature sections, b) bad porn that makes me grimace and c) poor portrayals/explications of sexual activity even in the much lauded sections. Someone needs to edit that thing down to basic sociological points, decent mechanics and a few funny sections. as it stands, it's the MadTV of splatbooks; it might have some decent parts but it's too much to ask me to wade through those amounts of utter crap to get to them.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

See, this is why I disallow even discussion of BoEF. It might have some nice points, but they're mixed with a) immature sections, b) bad porn that makes me grimace and c) poor portrayals/explications of sexual activity even in the much lauded sections. Someone needs to edit that thing down to basic sociological points, decent mechanics and a few funny sections. as it stands, it's the MadTV of splatbooks; it might have some decent parts but it's too much to ask me to wade through those amounts of utter crap to get to them.The first chapter is the best, IMHO. It's the pure fluff section. The rest...varies. I'd speak highly of most of it, but including any of the mechanics would wreck most of my IRL groups campaigns, so...yeah. Which is disappointing, as a lot of it is, IMHO, pretty neat.

[Hairb]

Malhavoc Press has a very reliable line, I find, if you're alright with a very distinct feel for the campaign. The meteor event book, whose name I cannot remember at the moment, is a standout example. They also do rather good web enhancements, including one of the most outstandingly concise interpretations of steampunk/ magepunk I've ever seen. 19 thumbs up.

EDIT: The meteor book is called "When the Sky Falls" and is written by Bruce R Cordell. The steampunk thing is available here. (http://www.montecook.com/images/Technology.pdf)


hmmmmm, that is wroth considering
from
EE

Would you wax wroth while considering it?

[Dementrius]

If you want a bag full of awesomeness you could get some .pdfs from Sinister Adventures. For about $2 you can get some very well-written adventures.


http://www.sinisteradventures.com/

[Waspinator]

RPG Now has a free PDF called Broken: The Memory of Solaris. It's kind of interesting because it's a setting where the world was blown up and now all of the fantasy inhabitants have to survive in space. It even has monsters like a giant blob of troll flesh formed from fused-together trolls adapting to the vacuum of space!

[Drascin]

Those aren't 3rd-party books.

I'd vote for Hyperconscious (http://montecook.com/mpress_Hyper.html) and Untapped Potential (http://www.lulu.com/content/1241702). Both are excellent psionics supplements, available as .pdfs from various online stores.

+1. UTP has some great material for the psionics junkie.

[sonofzeal]

See, this is why I disallow even discussion of BoEF. It might have some nice points, but they're mixed with a) immature sections, b) bad porn that makes me grimace and c) poor portrayals/explications of sexual activity even in the much lauded sections. Someone needs to edit that thing down to basic sociological points, decent mechanics and a few funny sections. as it stands, it's the MadTV of splatbooks; it might have some decent parts but it's too much to ask me to wade through those amounts of utter crap to get to them.
Naw, the problem isn't the book, the problem is people who go "heee sexx0rz!" and get downright immature about it. I've used the book with multiple characters, and I honestly can't think of many bits that are actually handled immaturely. Some of the PrCs are poorly written or oddly balanced (but no worse than some official content), and the magic item section is skippable, but the section on magic spells is awesome. There are some spells in that book that WotC should have had right from the start, such as Magic Probe (detailed information on all spells active on a person), and Healing Sphere (CMW in a 3rd lvl slot, but glows and can be sent a distance away). Mass Sanctuary, Resist Temptation, Peace Aura, and Pleasant Dreams are all great non-sexual spells that would get more play than a lot of stuff WotC comes out it.

As for poor portrayals/explications of sexuality, I'm not sure what you mean. If you wanted the book to give you more detailed, erotic example, then remember that the book is not attempting to be pornographic. If that's what you're reading for, that might explain your disappointment.