OOTS #593 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[RMS Oceanic]

:smallfrown:

That was sad. Hope Kubota gets his comuppance soon.

[FoE]

Therkla ... :smallfrown:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[EvilElitest]

I didn't like Kubota til not, but he has offically gotten a badass/possible magnificent bastard card. Nice death scene too
from
EE

[Thufir]

:smalleek:

Damn, so Therkla died and Kubota gets away with it? That's just mean. Good comic though.

[Tempest Fennac]

I don't see how he could get away with it to be honest (I'm not sure whether I expected that or not).

[bosssmiley]

Therkla?

DO NOT WANT!!!!!

Dammit. How can stick figure comics make you *sniffle*? :smallfrown:

[T-O-E]

Poor Therkla, doubt she'll be raised but maybe we can get a glimpse of what after-life she ascends to.
:smallfrown:

[pendell]

Kubota "got away" for half a strip, so far. I'm confident that Kubota will get what's coming to him.


I suspect sooner rather than later. Isn't Vaarsuvius flying toward the ship now?


Strip reaction:

*sniff* *sob*.

But in a good way. I hope Therkla goes to one of the good afterlives.

Well done -- although we still need this arc tied up with Qarr and Kurota still lose.



Perhaps they deserve each other
.

Heh .. I have to commend the giant. This is the first villain he's built that I've actively *hated*. Xykon is utter evil, but he's also comedic. Redcloak is tragic. Kuroda? Just nasty.

I'm assuming this is building towards a HORRIFYING fate for that individual, in the near future

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Thufir]

I don't see how he could get away with it to be honest (I'm not sure whether I expected that or not).

Well, he seems to think he can, and The Giant has a habit of surprising us with these things...

[AKA_Bait]

Well done sir!

So much for all those Therkla will replace Belkar in the party threads...

[Tundar]

Wow, that's a very sad ending.

Poor Therkla. All she wanted was to be loved.

[Vulion]

Damn you, Kubota!

[Tempest Fennac]

There were 3 people who Hinjo trusts who saw what happened, and a Speak With Dead spell would get more information.

[Nargrakhan]

So... err... Kubota pricked Therkla in her chest? :smallredface:

He's evil and a perv!!! :smalltongue:

[Elder Tsofu]

*sad* ow, why is it always the best who die young? :smallfrown:
Well done, but therkla was sure one of my favorites... :smallfrown:

[BRC]

Alas, poor Therkla.

Of course, if they get 5000 GP worth of Diamonds she's back on her feet, but such an emotional death scene usually isn't reversed so easily. Especially since it is a "Redemption Equals Death"

On the other hand, the Giant loves messing with tropes like that, so the jury is still out on this.

[drachefly]

Tempest - the issue isn't whether they can prove it to Hinjo, it's whether Hinjo can prove it to the other nobles.

[Bongos]

Noooooooooo!!!! Not Therkla!!!!

[Ruduen]

Alas, poor Therkla.

Of course, if they get 5000 GP worth of Diamonds she's back on her feet, but such an emotional death scene usually isn't reversed so easily. Especially since it is a "Redemption Equals Death"

On the other hand, the Giant loves messing with tropes like that, so the jury is still out on this.

I'm fairly certain that, judging by her last words, she wouldn't even be coming back then.

Aw... Poor Therkla. Of course, that gives Elan a good dramatic revenge opportunity, but still...

[Wolfprint]

:smallsigh: Sniff.

What's that little thing right next to the big junk on the last panel? A little boat? Kubota?

[Tempest Fennac]

I forgot about that. Wouldn;t the dead Samarai and Ninjas class as proof that Kubota was there if the Samarai are recognised, though? I'm assuming it is his rowing boat.

[dish]

*Sigh*

I guess all those who were saying she was doomed were right. (And I'm sure there is a TV trope about how baddies who switch sides are generally doomed.)

But I was still hoping she'd survive.

[Duke of URL]

Therkla as Eponine (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LetThemDieHappy). Nice.

[malakim2099]

:smalleek:

Damn, so Therkla died and Kubota gets away with it? That's just mean. Good comic though.

Story arc ain't over yet. :smallamused:

Just a hunch. I think Kubota's 15 minutes are close to being up.

[vampire2948]

Meh, shame that Therkla died, I was quite looking forward to when she meets Haley :smallbiggrin:


Meh...

Vaarsuvius meeting and blastin' K's boat into the ocean is too predictable...I think that the giant will come up with something more fun, perhaps involving K living.



Vampire2948,

[TerrickTerran]

Poor Therkla. Now, Elan must grow up a little more.

[Rogue 7]

*Sigh*

I guess all those who were saying she was doomed were right. (And I'm sure there is a TV trope about how baddies who switch sides are generally doomed.)

But I was still hoping she'd survive.

Redemption Equals Death. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)

Damn. Just...damn. Poor girl. Saying that, I think Kubota's being overly confident. Hinjo can now have sworn evidence from two members of the nobility. Even if other members disagree, he's well within the law to be able to arrest, try, convict, and execute Kubota.

[SirSigfried]

About the corpses of the samurai and the ninja, I didn't see any of them in this comic. Did they just dissolve? Were they an illusion? Is it a mistake in the art?

Find out next time on...ORDER OF THE STICK

Edit: Or...
Was Mr.Runaway Ninja busy in the last strip.

[Daran]

To be honest - i didn't like this comic.

People started to like Therkla. And just then she dies. okay so far, but than the long speech saying "I won't be resurrected" ... Throwing a fine character away like that.
It reminded me too much of Miko (except noone liked her).
It's too much of a "introduce likeable/dislikable chatacter and kill him later for good" :smallannoyed:

[Lycar]

Damn it.. i'm misting all up over here.

Poor Therkla. :smalleek:

Oh man, Kabuto is soo dead. When did a chaotic person ever care about law and order to get revenge... :smallcool:

And i had to chuckle at 'I thought he just was trying to help optimize my build...'

Lycar

[DeepChild]

THERKLAAAA!!!!!

Aww, what a great character she turned out to be :smallfrown:

[Lizard Lord]

Alas, poor Therkla.

Of course, if they get 5000 GP worth of Diamonds she's back on her feet, but such an emotional death scene usually isn't reversed so easily. Especially since it is a "Redemption Equals Death"

On the other hand, the Giant loves messing with tropes like that, so the jury is still out on this.

Therkla made it clear she didn't want to be raised.

I am thinking/hoping she will get a neutral afterlife.

I doubt she will get a good one, to be honest.

[vampire2948]

It reminded me too much of Miko (except noone liked her).

I liked Miko.

[Spiryt]

But the Therkla's part is to ride alone.

[busterswd]

...*sniff*...

[HUMVEE Driver]

I hate you.



Do I really have to spell out who I'm talking to?

[Neon Knight]

Kubota, you magnificent bastard!

[Pandabear]

That was certainly sad, and a bit unexpected.. :smallfrown:

[dish]

Redemption Equals Death. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath)



That'll be the one. Same one that did for Snape.

[Ganurath]

it was sort of worth it, though. I mean... I managed to get your arms around me, didn't I?Has the Tear Jerker section been updated?

[nowiwantmydmg]

Unexpected. Elan was his usual dumb self though; I mean cut Daigo loose to help Therkla and then pound K to the floor(grapple), not hard.

Good Comic Though.

[Athaniar]

I liked Miko.

Same here.

About Therkla, we'll probably meet her in the afterlife anyway. Perhaps she'll hit on Roy?

[Tholok Razescar]

I tear'd :(

[Archaicwonder]

I'll cry after I get away from work. How are you supposed to explain to coworkers that you are misty eyed because of a stick figure comic?

[Guchalez]

That was really sad, and she made pretty clear that she didn't wanted to be resurrected, but maybe a speak with dead would convince her otherwise, she been a potential witness for putting kubota in jail... maybe they convince her to come back to life to testify and everything.

[Tyrael]

THEEERKLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! (http://eternalnooo.ytmnd.com):frown:

Dang it! Now I'm all choked up! It's kind of like Miko's death, but this time, I actually LIKED her!

[DracoDei]

About Therkla, we'll probably meet her in the afterlife anyway. Perhaps she'll hit on Roy?

Eh... as long as we are jumping one step alignment bounderies between planes I think Elan's dad would seem more her type.

[the_tick_rules]

I'm sad now:smallfrown:

[Krytha]

Noooooooo Therklaaaaaa

[Ganurath]

That was really sad, and she made pretty clear that she didn't wanted to be resurrected, but maybe a speak with dead would convince her otherwise, she been a potential witness for putting kubota in jail... maybe they convince her to come back to life to testify and everything.Speak With Dead doesn't work that way. It doesn't call the soul back to communicate, it just uses the echoes of the memories in the corpse's brain. It's why the answers aren't always clear due to literalism, rather than due to the departed's opinion of the caster.

[nimby]

Dungeon Crawling Fools was A New Hope.

No Cure For The Paladin Blues combined with War and XPs was The Empire Strikes back.

The current story line is The Empire Pwned Your Face.

[Ishmayl]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Elan is going to be having a new bad-ass moment in the near future, ala his last fight with Nale.

[teratorn]

Damn, the great characters keep dying. First Miko, now Therkla...

[The Tygre]

I liked Miko too...

Oh, Therkla girl,
The trope, the trope
Came calling.

From panel to panel,
And over the monthly time.
And in the end, we Miko fans are reminiscing,
Oh Therkla girl, oh Therkla girl, why did you die?

[vampire2948]

I liked Miko for reasons too diverse to fully describe to you. (also, i'm lazy).

Anyway, she was, and is, my favourite character, and will be, always.

Praise Miko, the only character so far to intentionally destroy a gate


*gives Tygre a cookie*

[Hederoth]

I am very very sad.... damn you giant....

But... I am hopeful that in the afterlife she'll meet Roy and then something will happen to improve all of this =)

[Slamexo]

No! Not Therkla! She was the only half-orc I ever felt was more than funnily stupid or scarily strong! :smalleek:

Oh cruel Giant, why must all of your creations die before I'm ever prepared for their depature? :smallfrown:

But then, I'm never prepared for a character to die :smallbiggrin:

[Rad]

I liked Miko too...

Oh, Therkla girl,
The trope, the trope
Came calling.

From panel to panel,
And over the monthly time.
And in the end, we Miko fans are reminiscing,
Oh Therkla girl, oh Therkla girl, why did you die?

sniff! poor Therkla! :smallfrown:

[Niley]

*sniff* A minute of silence to honor Therkla, please...
And now...
DIE KUBOTA, DIEEEEEE!

[Enlong]

Alright. Comic 84 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html) no longer deserves its own title. That should go to this comic, without question.

Why Therkla, why? Why didn't you lean Neutralize Poison, Elan? You should've known better after the inn...

*sob*

[eilandesq]

Well, we know that Elan won't die any time soon--because this certainly isn't a happy ending for him.

A question arises. . . Is this going to be another moment where Elan decides to make himself more useful? It's been a running joke how Elan doesn't seem to be able to cast anywhere near the number or variety of spells that a (presumably) 12th level bard should be able to cast--but this is the first time that it unquestionably contributed to the death of someone that Elan cares about. V. may be unavailable as an advisor on the question of spell selection right now due to obsession, but don't be surprised if Elan casts more spells from now on.

[pylonhead]

This one made me tear up. Well done.

[chiasaur11]

Man, I actually got a little misty eyed.

And the "for you at least" part of the prophecy is getting a tad more... impactful.

You deserved that Eagle good sir.

And that nomination for another Eagle.

[Berserk Monk]

That was great storytelling. I almost misted up. The giant's going to have to do something really epic for strip 600 to top this.

[Fiery Diamond]

Therkla...*sniff*

So. Sad.


Why did she have to die? She was a really great character.

On the plus side, I'm looking forward to revenge-driven kick-assery on the part of Elan.

-Fiery Diamond

[Kobold-Bard]

Yippee-Kiyay Mother-F***er!!!!!! Therkla's Dead!!!!! :biggrin:

All that remains is for :vaarsuvius: to disintegrate Kubota and we can get back to the real bad guys. (Or at least to Haley fighting her old guild people, anything to get away from these damned ninjas and boats.)

Please let Durkon have one of Roy's toenails, I miss him :smallfrown:

[Shhalahr Windrider]

…

…

…

…

I think the strip just broke me.

…

…

[Partywhipple]

Awww sad. I'm looking forward to some PAYBACK:smallmad:

[Ganurath]

Yippee-Kiyay Mother-F***er!!!!!! Therkla's Dead!!!!! :biggrin:You do realize, Mr. Bard, that as Founder of the Therkla Fanclub I have a responsibility to point out that the only people who have posted before who have not explicitely stated that they are upset Therkla died and/or were fans of Therkla are those expressing outrage at the villainy of Kubota?

[KilltheToy]

:smallfrown:

I motion that we organize a lynch mob and kill Kubota. All in favor?

[Tyrael]

I can't get this (http://www.bluelaguna.net/downloads/mp3s/eternal-sonata-ost-soundtrack/101+Pyroxene+of+the+heart.mp3) out of my head.

[Partywhipple]

Oh, I should say I think Elan really isn't showing himself to have a high Int or Wis, right? He doesn't seem to know much without a bardic knowledge check and he doesn't seem able to read anyone around him AT ALL. I would say wis and Int were his dump stats but he was able to cast at least a couple of spells. Wisdom is understanding situations and peoples actions, right? Wis is the base for Sense Motive? I don't have the books with me at work I am just thinking of how he seems just so clueless except in very basic ways...

I'm not trying to insult the character or the comic, I love the comic to death. I just sorta feel like Elan's a little flat. I'd like to see him be more useful and play a better support role instead of pain in Roy's side...:smallfrown:

[chiasaur11]

Yippee-Kiyay Mother-F***er!!!!!! Therkla's Dead!!!!! :biggrin:

All that remains is for :vaarsuvius: to disintegrate Kubota and we can get back to the real bad guys. (Or at least to Haley fighting her old guild people, anything to get away from these damned ninjas and boats.)

Please let Durkon have one of Roy's toenails, I miss him :smallfrown:

You are COLD man.

I mean, Victor Fries looks like Jim Hammond next to you.

I bet you barely teared up over Wash.

[Adrilimos]

This comic is sad . . . poor Therkla. :smallfrown:

I can see a super cool Elan fight scene coming up. :smallwink:

[MReav]

It's a +3 sword! Why isn't it doing more damage? Okay... so the armour has the excuse this time.

[Duke of URL]

I would say wis and Int were his dump stats but he was able to cast at least a couple of spells.

Bard spells are Charimsa-based. I think it's a given that Elan has an average INT, at best (some suspected he boosted INT to 10 at level 12), and likely a below-average WIS.

[SteveMB]

Why Therkla, why? Why didn't you lean Neutralize Poison, Elan? You should've known better after the inn...

Hmmm... I wonder if

Vaarsuvius, being even less tactful than usual because of chronic trance-deprivation, will mercilessly chew Elan out about that when s/he hears what happened. That might shock him into becoming a bit more serious -- still Elan, but a bit more grown up and effective, basically taking another step similar to his taking a level in Badass, er Dashing Swordsman.

[Ganurath]

It's a +3 sword! Why isn't it doing more damage? Okay... so the armour has the excuse this time.+5 armor, Ring of Protection on the other finger, total defense action as a standard action while retreating as a move action... Kubota maxed out his AC to ensure an escape even if his minions died.

[Kobold-Bard]

I apologise to those who have been adversely affected by my previous comments. I accept that posting them here was inappropriate during this time of grieving.

I do not however take back my comment. It is not an attack at the comic or its author, I simply never connected with the Azure City characters, including Therkla the way I did with previous characters.

Once again I am very sorry.

[Mastikator]

Dammit Elan! He should have lied so she'd want to be raised from the dead. I hoped she would stay with them.

[Querzis]

...Poor Therkla. :smallfrown:

By the way, stop saying Kubota is done for or that he'll get what is coming to him tsoon enough. Why? Because everyone as been saying that for the last 50 comics! Its about time you realize Kubota is not just a B-rate villain, he proved hes a real Magnificient bastard and everytimes someone said: «that was a stupid move from Kubota» (which happened really often) he proved you were wrong. I have no doubt he can get away from this even if I dont hope so.

And I gotta say I like him as a villain even if I still want him to die. Hes really, REALLY good at being evil.

[monty]

Yippee-Kiyay Mother-F***er!!!!!! Therkla's Dead!!!!! :biggrin:

I am obligated to hate you for saying that.

In response to the comic:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[The Rose Dragon]

See, the one ship I could get behind, and one of them dies. Tragically.

[Lamech]

Dang this story arc doesn't seem all that happy. The first part was really like New Hope, NCPB was lots of story and random stuff, wars and xp's was empire strikes back. This just seems like it isn't turning around Belkar's going to die, Therkla is gone, Roy is a golem his body lost, Haley is on the run, and just to make it worse, team evil posses three people who could probably TPK the order of ther stick, and another one or two who out classes them.

Damn, Kubota, I agree lets lynch this guy in the most horrible way possible and send him to hades.

[RMS Oceanic]

While this comic really makes me sad, I can't help but feel Kubota will have a Karma Houdini for all his schenanigans tonight, based on lack of evidence. He may eventually get his comeuppance, but he's clearly Genre savvy and knows how to cover his tracks.

[mhensley]

Man, that was harsh. I guess there's a downside to having an 18 charisma after all.

[Monation]

D:
D:
D:
D:
NOOOOOOOOO! THERKLAAAAAAA!
Damnit, she didn't have to die! I hate falling in love with characters just so the plot can kill them off like this... she was lovely. Also, poor Elan. I hope he kicks Kubota's butt somehow.

[Cizak]

Aw, man! :smallfrown: Go kick Kabuto's ass, Elan! :smallfurious:

[Haruki-kun]

This is probably the saddest death scene so far...

[kc0bbq]

Elan is copping a feel all Han Solo-like.

[Kobold-Bard]

Elan is copping a feel all Han Solo-like.

Hahaha, excellent observation. Elan: Bard, Rapier Wielding Badass, Softcore Necrophile (almost).

[HOLEkevin]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha… wait.

[Ramien]

While I'll miss Therkla, I don't see why all the trope-lovers are saying she qualifies for the 'Redemption Equals Death' trope. She never changed, ever. From practically her introduction, she was continually trying to have her cake and eat it too. Even at the end, she chose to oppose Kubota not out of any conviction that he was doing something wrong, but because it was the only way she saw to keep him alive.

Tragic? Yes.
Moving? Yes.
Redemption? Not a chance in whatever afterlife Therkla finds herself in.

Postscript: I do like the way the last poison bubble pops when Therkla dies.

[Blue_C.]

Sonova--

Another tear jerker. Just what I need after a 12 hour shift.

[Mauve Shirt]

Oh no. :smallfrown: This upsets me more than any death so far.
Depressing way to tie up romantic loose ends. I'm actually all teary-eyed now.
Elan better beat the crap out of Kubota if not kill him! :smallfurious:

:smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown:

[Shatteredtower]

Watchmen reference? Cute.


Why did she have to die? She was a really great character.

A very cynical aspect of my nature assumes that she was only made into a great character for the purpose of giving Elan some depth through her death, so that Haley wouldn't have to die instead.

The rest of me rejects this as bunk.


All that remains is for :vaarsuvius: to disintegrate Kubota and we can get back to the real bad guys.

As much as I have enjoyed this story, it's not the one I came to read. I wouldn't mind reading both at the same time, but if it's got to be one now and then the other, I could do without this one.

Having said that, I'd prefer something more than a quick V-driven solution to current events.


I bet you barely teared up over Wash.

I can't speak for Kobold-Bard, but my reaction to that scene was, "Yes! They're all going to die!"

Sadly, Mr. Whedon wussed out.

[Leigh]

Ohhhh. :smallfrown: Sad sad sad. I liked Therkla...
That death scene was really touching.

[docstrange]

To be honest - i didn't like this comic.

People started to like Therkla. And just then she dies. okay so far, but than the long speech saying "I won't be resurrected" ... Throwing a fine character away like that.
It reminded me too much of Miko (except noone liked her).
It's too much of a "introduce likeable/dislikable chatacter and kill him later for good" :smallannoyed:

It had to be - death has to mean *something* sometimes, especially in a world where the afterlife features a revolving door. And having Therkla around when Haley comes back... well, sure it would have been interesting if Michael Corleone brought Appolonia home with him from Sicily to meet Kay Adams, but having THAT scene would have made it too complicated for anything else of note to have happened in the Godfather.

Just be glad Therkla didn't get blown up by explosive runes hidden in Elan's horse.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hmmm... I wonder if

Vaarsuvius, being even less tactful than usual because of chronic trance-deprivation, will mercilessly chew Elan out about that when s/he hears what happened. That might shock him into becoming a bit more serious -- still Elan, but a bit more grown up and effective, basically taking another step similar to his taking a level in Badass, er Dashing Swordsman.

Unlikely. V is so withdrawn now that I doubt ey would care even if Elan showed up shouting "It's all my fault!" Perhaps a concise summary of Elan's failure, but not a chewing out by any means - I mean, V didn't even say "I told you so" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0591.html)

Elan might however, experience a Heroic BSOD (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicBSOD) on his own, leading to a Freak Out (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FreakOut) which will result in another moral choice when he's tracked down Kubota and can assassinate him for revenge or let him go for Hinjo to try and build a case against.

EDIT:

While I'll miss Therkla, I don't see why all the trope-lovers are saying she qualifies for the 'Redemption Equals Death' trope. She never changed, ever. From practically her introduction, she was continually trying to have her cake and eat it too. Even at the end, she chose to oppose Kubota not out of any conviction that he was doing something wrong, but because it was the only way she saw to keep him alive.

Tragic? Yes.
Moving? Yes.
Redemption? Not a chance in whatever afterlife Therkla finds herself in.

WARNING - TROPE DISCUSSION
The redemption in Redemption Equals Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath) need not be of cosmic significance; it can be as little as a Heel Face Turn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn) that is timed to rescue the Heroes. If the Heel dies in the process, it's a Heroic Sacrifice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeroicSacrifice), but if it happens later, it's a Redemption Equals Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath) situation - the character, once redeemed, cannot survive to be a Face for very long.

In Therkla's case, her Turn was here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0583.html) where she decided to quit Lord Kubota's service and thwart his scheme. Specifically, Lord Kubota's Kick the Dog (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog) scheme (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0586.html) of killing a pregnant woman whose child might some day be a rival for power. It is in the process of Resuscitating the Dog (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ResuscitateTheDog) that Therkla dies - hence Redemption Equaling Death (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedemptionEqualsDeath).

[docstrange]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Elan is going to be having a new bad-ass moment in the near future, ala his last fight with Nale.

Kubota's boat is not too far away for a Dashing Swordsman to reach by swinging on a rope suspended from the ship's mast. Modifier for revenge and sea setting.

[TheBST]

Spoilered for being really insensitive:

THANK

GOD

Therkla was getting tiresome. Damn giggly schoolgirl crush nonsense getting in the way of things- mushiness and teen-angst-love-at-first-site bollocks. Glad to have her gone. At least Miko contributed to the UR-plot- this just felt like a goofy tangent.

Oh- and choosing to die rather than be apart from someone you've known for what- a month, month and a half? Even Shakespeare couldn't pull that off without it being an out-and-out goofy thing to do.


Didn't move me, but well put together. Great choice for a title, too.

[Leigh]

I really hope/think that Elan's big *Hero Moment* will come up soon.

...Also, how's Belkar doing?

[Eric]

Wonder if there's a spell for Bards "Warp Wood"?

"Sink, sink, sink like a stinky stinker!"

Maybe Elan will sink the boat. +5 armour and all the other guff isn't going to make getting back easier without the boat.


I wonder if V's going to get the evidence: Kabuto did say he needed to get back to clean up the evidence.

[Ganurath]

Spoilered for being really insensitive:

THANK

GOD

Therkla was getting tiresome. Damn giggly schoolgirl crush nonsense getting in the way of things- mushiness and teen-angst-love-at-first-site bollocks. Glad to have her gone. At least Miko contributed to the UR-plot- this just felt like a goofy tangent.

Oh- and choosing to die rather than be apart from someone you've known for what- a month, month and a half? Even Shakespeare couldn't pull that off without it being an out-and-out goofy thing to do.


Didn't move me, but well put together. Great choice for a title, too.Regarding the spoilered content: She'd been on him for several months, ever since Azure City fell. Also, Romeo and Juliet didn't even known each other for weeks.

[UncleWolf]

*sings* Oh Half-orc babe, The ships, the ships are sailing.
Here they come to take you away...
By the morn' you'll be off this plane of existence...
Oh Therka, you half-orc babe, why did you die?

[The Wanderer]

*Lights a small candle for Therkla*

Well played Rich, well played.

I do wonder if Kubota can manage to slip his way out of this one as well... there are a couple of ways that his men being in the cabin can be explained, mostly by pinning the blame on a certain green ninja "working for an unknown employer", and charging that Hinjo and the Kato's are using the opportunity cynically to try and take down an opposing daimyo. (Which, given the way some of Azure City politics look, may be close enough to pass history to get a slight benefit of the doubt).

Should be interesting to see.

[Shatteredtower]

Oracle_Hunter, I think you've just given us another candidate phrase for V's four words.

TheBST, the events of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet all take place within the span of a week -- and it's not usually considered that goofy. Not exactly the best model for budding romances, though. :smallwink:

[Rogue 7]

While I'll miss Therkla, I don't see why all the trope-lovers are saying she qualifies for the 'Redemption Equals Death' trope. She never changed, ever. From practically her introduction, she was continually trying to have her cake and eat it too. Even at the end, she chose to oppose Kubota not out of any conviction that he was doing something wrong, but because it was the only way she saw to keep him alive.

Tragic? Yes.
Moving? Yes.
Redemption? Not a chance in whatever afterlife Therkla finds herself in.

Postscript: I do like the way the last poison bubble pops when Therkla dies.
While in no instance will you hear me argue that Therkla's good at all, I think she's moved from Lawful evil to Lawful Neutral with this. She wanted to keep Kubota, the man who took her in and raised her for years, alive. She was sick of all the power-grabbing and plots messing around with her life, and just wanted everyone to go home and be happy. She wasn't actively opposing evil, but she actively rejected evil, and not just to save Elan- she was sick of the whole kit and caboodle.

[Starscream]

We'll miss you, Therkla:smallfrown:. Well, judging from the comments, most of us will.

And when Kubota's comeuppance finally arrives it is going to be rough. Before now I was willing to treat him as a theatrically villainous pain (dude even has a mustache to twirl), but between attempting to assassinate a pregnant woman, and poisoning his henchwoman who was actually trying to help him escape, he has finally crossed the Moral Event Horizon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoralEventHorizon) and must pay dearly for his crimes.

And while it would be easy enough for Durkon or Vaarsuvius to take him down, I'm betting Elan will do the honors. Elan may be a lovable dimwit, but if there's one thing he knows better than anyone, it's narrative causality. Kubota seems to have a pretty good knowledge of genre conventions as well. Seeing them duke it out would be cathartic.

[AtomicKitKat]

Redemption=death. Was kind of visibly coming like a Galapagos tortoise with a speed-linked time-bomb on its back.:smallfrown:

[The Wanderer]

Oh, and by the way, a lot of people have been suggesting both in this and other threads that V will save the day and be the one to do in Kubota. While the idea is appealing (especially as I rather like the old V) I want to point out two potential points: 1) the ominous foreshadowing we got about V's condition just a couple of comics ago (dun dun DUN!) and 2) V's quest for power is already leading him/her in a very dark direction. Starting to randomly kill people as he/she sees fit while ignoring consequences may not do much to help with that dark direction...

[Jorrath_Zek]

I don't think there is a cumupetence coming for Kubota. At least, not at the hands of the Lawful Good Paladin.

Now, certain Bard is Chaotic Good, so even if he's told not to because it is not lawful, I can't see that stopping him from killing the bad guy...

That may well put the remaining OotS members out of the boats and on their way to Nowhere (Which we all know if just passed Somewhere.)

As for V, he's not heading back to the boats to be a hero. He's heading back to the boats to get back to work on his reseach and finding Haley. It's an obsession, and there was no more need for him on the island.

[Vectner]

That's so sad, it nearly made me cry :smalleek:

Great death scene thought.

[Linkavitch]

Wahh!! I like Therkla now! And she's dead! Awesome death, though Giant! But now, what to do about Kubota? Is there enough time for Elan to go get him?

[Eran of Arcadia]

If I weren't past feeling, I do believe I would have been upset about this one.

I hope that when Kubota gets it, it hurts.

[only1doug]

Bravo Rich,

Excellent Comic, nice character development / motivation for Elan and Builds reader dislike for Kubota... Excellent work.

[Azazel]

How dramatic! A nice ending there. My soft spot for outcasts was touched in the bad way. I feel dirty but it feels good...

[Ragabash]

Well, she didn't last very long. That's kinda weird, I guess she wasn't supposed to play an important part after all.
Anyways, poor Daigo! Once again, he's completely useless. And it's not for lack of trying, either.

EDIT: the previous message was posted by LIssou, who forgot to log off her husband's account >.>

[3Power]

Hmm, I wonder if Elan would give up a dashing swordsman level in order to learn remove poison. Well, a few scrolls would do the same thing. (and it would have to be a level that allowed him to learn or trade for new spells).

Therkla hasn't been around along enough for me to really care about her, and I found her obsessive love based on nothing but Elan's physical appearance rather annoying and forced, but I have to say that the giant really made a nice death scene, sufficient to get elan into "Beware the Cute Ones" mode, which, judging by the fact that she is currently dead, was probably the primary point of her character.

[Holammer]

Well, when Miko died it was a real tearjerker moment for me, an embarrassing one too because I read it during lunch break.
Therkla's death for some reason doesn't seem to provoke the same reaction for me, which is oddly disappointing. Being generally a more all-round likeable person than Miko ever was to most.

Now lets support Ganurath and Surfing half-orc through this eh?

[Skaven]

Bawwww ;-;

[Deepkicker]

OH, IZ ON NOW!!

Did not see that coming! Can't wait to see some revenge-seeking Elan goodness.

[Llaqus]

Ya know, I just noticed something. Kubota is the only villain who has actually gotten away with every thing he has done up to this point. I mean Xykon's been killed (twice or possibly more if you count the time he died to become a lich along with the time Roy killed him). Red cloak gets treated like a dog, and the linear guild just barely makes it away alive most of the time(some of them don't). Kabota has had no negative consequences to his evil deeds. You would think that with all that negative energy building up around him a Kraken wont just sprout up and eat him with his ship just because. Lol in any case i suppose what happens is up to Rich. Can't wait to see.

[Oslecamo]

Wow, Elan surely proved he's as useless as one party member can be. Again.

Goodbye Therkla. You wanted everything, and now you have nothing.

Anyway I wouldn't say that her master escaped unpunished. He lost her best minion, plus several minor minions, and that poison probably also wasn't very cheap. I doubt he can still be a treat to Hinjo.

Note: aparently the Oots spends half his gainings in potions, and then doesn't even bother to carry them around.

[Ganurath]

Oh, and by the way, a lot of people have been suggesting both in this and other threads that V will save the day and be the one to do in Kubota. While the idea is appealing (especially as I rather like the old V) I want to point out two potential points: 1) the ominous foreshadowing we got about V's condition just a couple of comics ago (dun dun DUN!) and 2) V's quest for power is already leading him/her in a very dark direction. Starting to randomly kill people as he/she sees fit while ignoring consequences may not do much to help with that dark direction...1) It was more foreshadowing about his mental/emotional health, which ties to 2) The dark direction V's heading, which would actually be helped by killing Kubota. Or did you mean helped in the sense of unprovoked turnaround from the gradual transition, rather than help in the sense that it cemented the presence of the downward spiral?

[Pronounceable]

I wasn't expecting this. I though it'd be Kubota who dies in this strip. Alas, poor Scrappy Therkla...

Story's going good all around, if a bit slow for all the pieces. Not that I mind. And now we have a good cliffhanger, it's a good time for a change of scene. Back to Roy, I think.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Note: aparently the Oots spends half his gainings in potions, and then doesn't even bother to carry them around.

I'm sure that those are just some random potions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html) that Durkon picked up. I mean, who needs Delay Poison anyway... oh :smalltongue:

[tribble]

*sob* so sad... sniffle.:smallfrown:

[Toper]

Geez, Therkla is apparently more overdramatic than Goth Haley. You met the guy less than 100 strips ago, most of which you weren't even in, and now you literally think you can't live without him? I know he has a high Charisma and all, but I don't really buy it. Oh well.

[Starscream]

I'm sure that those are just some random potions (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html) that Durkon picked up. I mean, who needs Delay Poison anyway... oh :smalltongue:

Probably Daigo just grabbed every bottle and scroll he could find. They don't look they they were labeled, and I doubt he has the class skills necessary to identify them.

P.S. anyone know what class Daigo and Kazumi actually are? I don't think they're paladins, but we've seen them level up so they are something

[kc0bbq]

Geez, Therkla is apparently more overdramatic than Goth Haley. You met the guy less than 100 strips ago, most of which you weren't even in, and now you literally think you can't live without him? I know he has a high Charisma and all, but I don't really buy it. Oh well.What in her background wouldn't make her exactly that? Two people weren't put off by her orciness, Kubota and Elan. Elan had nothing to gain by not treating her like just another orc villian. She was justifiably angsty.

[Finwe]

Kubota's in heavy armor, rowing a tiny rowboat all by himself. What if something knocked him off the boat?

[Red XIV]

Tempest - the issue isn't whether they can prove it to Hinjo, it's whether Hinjo can prove it to the other nobles.
That's assuming it's Hinjo who catches up to Kubota first, rather than somebody who doesn't care about proving anything to the nobles.


While this comic really makes me sad, I can't help but feel Kubota will have a Karma Houdini for all his schenanigans tonight, based on lack of evidence. He may eventually get his comeuppance, but he's clearly Genre savvy and knows how to cover his tracks.
The testimony of two nobles is certainly evidence, and more to the point, not everybody who'd want to see Kubota taken down is Lawful.

[Oracle_Hunter]

anyone know what class Daigo and Kazumi actually are? I don't think they're paladins, but we've seen them level up so they are something

I'm pretty sure they're Fighters, since they were carrying around Tower Shields (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0472.html).


Kubota's in heavy armor, rowing a tiny rowboat all by himself. What if something knocked him off the boat?

I am quite certain that Lord Kubota has Boots of Waterwalking for just such an occasion :smallbiggrin:

[Calmness]

Wow Elan, nice job jerk. :smallannoyed:

[Mauve Shirt]

P.S. anyone know what class Daigo and Kazumi actually are? I don't think they're paladins, but we've seen them level up so they are something

They're fighters I believe.
Gah, ninja'd.

[Kobold-Bard]

Wow Elan, nice job jerk. :smallannoyed:

A bit harsh I feel. If you don't have the spell, you don't have the spell. Especially if you're a spontaneous caster.

[Calmness]

He could have treated her better though, poor girl just wanted a date.

[Llaqus]

I'm on an Adventure. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html)

meh. needed something to break up all this drama.

[Prowl]

A sad strip, but well done. It is good to see some of the subplots being resolved over the past few strips, the suspense has been killing me.

[Georlik]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The killed Mystra Therkla! And I was just about starting to sympathize with her Т_Т

[Belkster11]

Yeah, he could've. But he looks genuinly upset in the second to last panel, almost as if he's regretting.

But what could he do? He already has a girlfriend (Haley) whom he believes is still out there. He meets a strange half-orc girl who has a deep crush on him. Once he begins to like her, she gets struck down.

In her dying breath, she asks if she could still be with him if she was raised from the dead.

If he said: "Yeah. We'll be together!" then it'd be a flat-out lie.

To Therkla if she got raised, they met Haley and Elan went all maky-outy on her.

To Haley if Therkla never got raised and Elan reunited with Haley. The idea that he had almost ditched a human girl he's known for more than a year or so over an orc-girl that he's barely known for seven MONTHS would eat away at his conscience.

[Lycan 01]

That...

That...

That just wasn't right... :smallfrown:



I hated Miko. In fact, I grinned and laughed when she died. But Therkla... I liked her. She was one of my favorite characters... I figured that even if she didn't end up with Elan, at least she'd find happiness in the arms of another character, or some other form of happiness. But... death? No... That just wasn't right...


But I must admit, if she had to die, that was the best way. Acceptant of her fate, and in the arms of the man she loved...



YES, I am a hopeless romantic. Shut up. :smallannoyed:

[Jorgo Mono]

I'm glad she's dead. Never liked her much anyway.

[SmartAlec]

The testimony of two nobles is certainly evidence, and more to the point, not everybody who'd want to see Kubota taken down is Lawful.

"You see, Hinjo? How dare these upjumped commoners besmirch my honour. As it happens, I have a watertight alibi, as I was dining on my ship all along with Lord and Lady Stooge, Lord Kubota-Supporter and His Holiness, the Cleric Givesalibisformoney. No doubt these dead bodies are all wearing my colours to discredit me - haven't we gone over this before?"

Personally, I'm hoping that the Order DO do something crazy and nuke the guy, so Hinjo will have no choice to declare them criminals and they'll have to escape and continue their adventures. Come on, guys, resettling Azure City is all very well, but, quest to save the world...?

I don't think they will, though. Although some might think that V is going to be the one to visit retribution upon Kubota, I think that V will suggest it, Durkon and (if he's present) Hinjo will shout him down, and as Kubota's plans cause Hinjo's downfall a little further down the line V will get his "I told you so".

[shaddy_24]

Holy crap. I didn't quite expect that. Man, well done Giant. That was wonderfully done.

[LordSintax]

Wow Elan, nice job jerk. :smallannoyed:

can we move this in a "not elan's" fault direction? (bonus points for anyone who gets that reference)

He's a bard who never learned neutralize poison because he hangs around with a sentient box of band-aids.(read, Durkon) If you dont have the spell, you dont have the spell. Besides, its not like anyone could concievably be about to rely on our man Elan for healing, now is it?

[Belkar Rocks]

Damn it, Rich, how do you keep finding ways to bring tears to my old cynical eyes?

[joela]

Good strip. As always, look forward to future ones.

[fractal]

Well, when Miko died it was a real tearjerker moment for me, an embarrassing one too because I read it during lunch break.
Therkla's death for some reason doesn't seem to provoke the same reaction for me, which is oddly disappointing. Being generally a more all-round likeable person than Miko ever was to most.
Miko's death was tragic, Therkla's death is merely sad.

[Kato]

Aw man, that was mean, Giant! Okay, not like I cried, but I'm not that kinda guy, still... DAMN Kubota for posioning her! Damn Therkla for chosing such a dumb build! (Which ninja doesn't take great fortitude? Who knows when you accidentally cut yourself with your poisoned dagger...) Damn Elan for not learning Delay poison! Damn Durkon for... being elsewhere. And Daigo and Kasumi Lien and Hinjo and V and whomever is in any possible way responsible -.-***

(Though, great death tscene. touched me way more than 'the other'... especially Therkla's last words... *sniff* Love snucks, girl, love sucks...)

[Shatteredtower]

Geez, Therkla is apparently more overdramatic than Goth Haley. You met the guy less than 100 strips ago, most of which you weren't even in, and now you literally think you can't live without him? I know he has a high Charisma and all, but I don't really buy it. Oh well.Is it any more plausible than the notion that someone who'd murder her way to the top of her graduating class would throw away a promising career for a guy she was ordered to kill?

Like it or not, Charisma (and Diplomacy) tends to work this way in D&D, and the standards of love at first sight and love bringing us down are much older than that.

Besides, what reasons does Therkla have for returning? She's just betrayed her mentor for a guy she can never have (not even by the means that got her valedictorian status) in a fashion that assures she's never going to be trusted in such an elevated position ever again. She has no faith in her own judgment. With nothing left to lose, she's free, and with an afterlife guaranteed, what better option does she have for a clean break?

[Ikialev]

I never liked her anyway. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0169.html)

[Sanjay]

Did anyone else think this comic was really reminiscent of Eponine's death scene from the Les Miserables musical?

When he started singing, I have expected it to be "A Little Fall of Rain".

[Ragn Charran]

With all the talk of "how is Kubota getting out of this one" I'm amazed this theory hasn't come up yet.

Maybe Kubota is going to spin the fact that Elan worked with Therkla to escape the island to try and pin this on the Order? Given the Ninja nature of the attack it's conceivable to pin on Therkla, tying Elan to it will be tougher but Kubota could have something up his sleeve.

The only complicating factor is the Daigo's testimony, but given Elan's skills of persuasion (charisma based, let alone the magical potential as a bard) Kubota can probably play that off.

Considering how much the Order has prevented Kubota from acheiving his plans, you know he's got some plan to get rid of them. So why not this?

Longshot theory I know, but just throwing it out there.

[BarGamer]

This is the first time in a long time that I'm posting in this forum, rather than Erfworld, even though I keep up with both. And I just want to say that this comic really tugged on the old heartstrings. I don't think I felt this much empathy for a rather bad-ass girl dying since FF7, or maybe Titanic.

[Istari]

Poor Therkla :smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown:

[Kaytara]

*sob* *sob* :smallfrown:
I didn't expect that... Though in hindsight, I should have. Some say that's the trait of good foreshadowing...

Depressing, to say the least... <:(

And I guess Elan will now be torn up over not having learned such a vital spell... Angsty Elan? Oh gods. This will probably lead to his taking his own abilities and chances to influence a battle a lot more seriously.
So right now almost every member of the Order is screwed in some manner or another. Roy's dead, Belkar's sick, V's obsessed, Durkon is grumpy, and Elan will be angsty and/or morose. Hopefully this will lead to a case of catharsis and character development that will make them all more capable.

[chiasaur11]

*sob* *sob* :smallfrown:
I didn't expect that... Though in hindsight, I should have. Some say that's the trait of good foreshadowing...

Depressing, to say the least... <:(

And I guess Elan will now be torn up over not having learned such a vital spell... Angsty Elan? Oh gods. This will probably lead to his taking his own abilities and chances to influence a battle a lot more seriously.
So right now almost every member of the Order is screwed in some manner or another. Roy's dead, Belkar's sick, V's obsessed, Durkon is grumpy, and Elan will be angsty and/or morose. Hopefully this will lead to a case of catharsis and character development that will make them all more capable.

Durkon being grumpy is fairly normal.

Dwarves, eh?

[Robert_Frazer]

A lot of people have been screaming bloody murder and demanding Kubota's head on a platter, but I have to disagree - I hope that he survives and retains his position. This is partially because I admire him for his cool and collected manner, but also because survival is crucial for his status as an enemy.

Consider the nature of the other villains in the comic. Xykon is the comedic power-tripper, obsessed with destroying the universe even though there won't be much left to lord over - but that doesn't matter because it'll be a riot doing it anyway. Redcloak is the smouldering furnace, a tight, controted, crushingly constricted knot of spite and hatred throttling all goodness out of his withered heart. Nale and his Linear Guild are the traditional Evil Twin/Doppelganger trope. Tsukiko's necrotic obsessions has the gross revulsion factor, while her character is that of the juvenile bully, caring only for her own amusement, and deriving that amusement from hurting people.

Lord Kubota belongs to a different class of villain. He's the schemer, the manipulator, the Machievellian web-spinner. He lives for conspiracy and intrigue - he is The Man With The Plan.

If we're to respect Lord Kubota as a villain, that plan has to work, otherwise he just becomes a bumbling fool whose character stops being compelling and starts becoming contemptible, and the comic would be worse off for it. He should not fall at the first hurdle, because having Vaarsuvius just spring out of nowhere and destroy him might give readers a brief thrill of satisfaction but would ultimately diffuse a great source of drama and be hollow and dissatisfying. It is far more appropriate and fulfilling for such characters eventually overreach themselves and become entangled in their own webs.

Furthermore, Lord Kubota's survival would help to define Elan further, as well as accentuating the drama in general. Dashing Swordsmen need to learn how to sashay skilfully through High Society and bow and backflip through courtly dramas. This involves more than sweeping voluptuous heiresses off their feet in extravagant voltas, or swinging on chandeliers and leaping off lofty parapets; he needs to have a rival to glower at darkly across the ballroom, with strategic manoeuvres around the dinner table to avoid leaving one's back exposed. Lord Kubota fulfils this role admirably. He's the enemy whose confident smirk outclasses the swordsman's witty puns - he's The One That Got Away, the kink in the smooth operator's composure that will be straightened out, one day. One day...!


I will be very disappointed if Lord Kubota dies soon - I certainly hope he'll be hatching plots and concocting plans for a long time to come.

[Kobold-Bard]

Thought 1: Kubota escapes justice and through some series of events ends up killing Julio Scoundrel in front of Elan as he predicted (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html).

Thought 2: Kubota, Xykon and Nale team up and form a super evil (probably with some highly original name like "The Triad".)

[Neopolis]

Oh, Kubota, you and your diplomatic immunity... Let's just say it was for the better.

[Murphoid]

Wasn't this all from that musical about the guy who stole the bread, and the other guy who fell in love with his daughter?

I sleep in your embrace at last.

[chibibar]

Kubota has survive THIS long scheming and manipulating people. I am sure he will continue to live and always have a plan to get out of trouble.

Granted the house of Kato and Elan are witnesses, but I have a feeling that the trial would be more of a farce than a real one (remember more of the clerics and such died at the castle remember? at least the powerful one) so we might not get any Being of Lawful and Good to pass judgment.

As for Therkla coming back to life, I don't think so *sniff* mainly she knows that Elan is not leaving Haley for her. Therkla has nothing worth living for and thus would not come back like Shojo didnt' come back.

Nice job Giant. I did get misty here.

[Dacia Brabant]

Very sad, I was hoping Therkla would continue on as a subversive character of so many tropes that people are fond of pointing out, but I guess in the end there's no escaping fate. :smallfrown:

And yes, while this turn will very likely speed up the return of the A-plot*, I for one will miss Therkla's story arc since it, in this reader's opinion, had some of the funniest moments in the comic to date: the Orc Island sequence from start to finish had at least one laugh-out-loud funny joke each strip, often more. "Meanwhile, his teammate was in Rhodes" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html) still slays me. :smallbiggrin:

So while we're sad at her passing and furious at her killer, let's take a moment to remember Therkla if not for who she was then at least for her comedic value to the story.

*
I agree with those who suggest V and not Elan will be the one to deliver Kubota's comeuppance, and that right soon. Elan, despite being genre savvy and despite that this moment should have a serious affect on him (if temporarily--it is Elan after all, he's still a goof long after his best friend died and his girl got separated from him), just doesn't have the punch to take out a card-carrying villain.

V, however, has shown a long-standing disgust for tropes and no doubt would see Kubota's assured attempt to escape blame despite obvious guilt as one of the most hackneyed and egregious of all tropes. That combined with his/her growing impatience with this entire arc and increasingly dark temperament, should result in V blasting Kubota--and, if this is V's Start of Darkness, Kubota's entire entourage as well--into dust and cinders. Which would have to be condemned by Hinjo and lead to the departure of the remaining OOTS from the Azure City exiles. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Red XIV]

Consider the nature of the other villains in the comic. Xykon is the comedic power-tripper, obsessed with destroying the universe even though there won't be much left to lord over
Xykon's not out to destroy the world, just conquer it. He won't destroy the world unless he gets really, REALLY bored. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html)

And besides, Kubota is the villain of a B-plot. He's not going to outlive his own story arc.

[Aerysil]

I hate him.

[knownaspirate]

awwww *sniff*
just when i was starting to like that ninja :'(

[Shatteredtower]

I hate him.

Why? What did Daigo ever do to you?

[Kobold-Bard]

awwww *sniff*
just when i was starting to like that ninja :'(

Why? She was greedy and overly emotional. And she had a crush on Elan after all the comics the Giant put into him and Haley getting together, death was all but inevitable.

[Neopolis]

Why? What did Daigo ever do to you?
He's talking about Elan, you doodoohead.

[pendell]

I think Kubota will die for dramatic reasons; this arc was never anything more than a side quest to keep Elan and co. occupied while Roy was dead and Haley/Belkar were split off. The villains were brought into existence for the specific purpose of the quest, and now that it is wrapping up it's time to write them out of the story.

The overall arc of the story is to stop Xykon and Redcloak from capturing a gate and using it to summon the snarl. Kubota and co. can do little save distract the heroes from this goal. So they either need to be killed off or left behind. Once left behind, they've got no reason to pursue the OOTS -- their interest is in Azure City.

We already have enough recurring villains in this strip, and it's been awhile since the good guys won anything. We've written Therkla out, now it's time to write Kubota out as well.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Red XIV]

Oh, and for future reference, Elan:

When Therkla asked if you'd dump Haley for her after she was revived? That's when you're supposed to lie.

[Kobold-Bard]

Oh, and for future reference, Elan:

When Therkla asked if you'd dump Haley for her after she was revived? That's when you're supposed to lie.

Would you want a scorned Half-Orc ninja who you lied to in her dying moments coming back?

[Martok]

Therkla! NOOOOOO!! :smallfrown:



And I guess Elan will now be torn up over not having learned such a vital spell... Angsty Elan? Oh gods. This will probably lead to his taking his own abilities and chances to influence a battle a lot more seriously.
So right now almost every member of the Order is screwed in some manner or another. Roy's dead, Belkar's sick, V's obsessed, Durkon is grumpy, and Elan will be angsty and/or morose. Hopefully this will lead to a case of catharsis and character development that will make them all more capable.
I hope you're right that this inspires Elan to really shape up and take things a little more seriously. Not too much, of course -- we don't Elan to fundamentally change who he is -- but it would be nice to see him apply himself to a situation in more than just an "I'm adventuring!" sort of way.

[Shatteredtower]

He's talking about Elan, you doodoohead.

Heh. Well played.

[Red XIV]

Would you want a scorned Half-Orc ninja who you lied to in her dying moments coming back?
Afterward you explain that you couldn't stand just letting her die, and if you've got 18 Charisma like Elan to sell it, she'll probably forget she was angry pretty fast.

Alternately, threesome. :smallcool:

[Kobold-Bard]

Afterward you explain that you couldn't stand just letting her die, and if you've got 18 Charisma like Elan to sell it, she'll probably forget she was angry pretty fast.

Alternately, threesome. :smallcool:

I like your thinking :smallbiggrin:

[Soulflame]

Long time reader, first time poster (main reason for not posting is that like most forums, this board moves way faster then I can check it).

I don't think this is the last we'll see of Therkla. I for one think she'll meet Roy's Dad and the Fairy there... should make for some fun conversation...

[Kaytara]

*
I agree with those who suggest V and not Elan will be the one to deliver Kubota's comeuppance, and that right soon. Elan, despite being genre savvy and despite that this moment should have a serious affect on him (if temporarily--it is Elan after all, he's still a goof long after his best friend died and his girl got separated from him), just doesn't have the punch to take out a card-carrying villain.

V, however, has shown a long-standing disgust for tropes and no doubt would see Kubota's assured attempt to escape blame despite obvious guilt as one of the most hackneyed and egregious of all tropes. That combined with his/her growing impatience with this entire arc and increasingly dark temperament, should result in V blasting Kubota--and, if this is V's Start of Darkness, Kubota's entire entourage as well--into dust and cinders. Which would have to be condemned by Hinjo and lead to the departure of the remaining OOTS from the Azure City exiles. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I actually like that idea, since V almost certainly still has a few spells that he'd left unused during the battle since the devil would've been immune to them, such as Fireball. It would tie in nicely.

Still, I can't really see a plot twist that would get the Order exiled at this point - Hinjo needs them far too badly to let them go just like that. That would only work if he managed to get support from the nobles in one fell swoop at the same time.

[Kobold-Bard]

Long time reader, first time poster (main reason for not posting is that like most forums, this board moves way faster then I can check it).

I don't think this is the last we'll see of Therkla. I for one think she'll meet Roy's Dad and the Fairy there... should make for some fun conversation...

People from Azure City etc. go to a different afterlife than Roy and the other Northeners.

[silvadel]

Well... Kabuto at the very least has lost:

1) Therkla his best ninja
2) The element of surprise (everyone now knows he is a tank)
3) Quarr's Summoning Chip
4) Any pretense of innocence

And has really gained nothing. None of the good guys died -- just his ninja.

[brilliantlight]

To be honest - i didn't like this comic.

People started to like Therkla. And just then she dies. okay so far, but than the long speech saying "I won't be resurrected" ... Throwing a fine character away like that.
It reminded me too much of Miko (except noone liked her).
It's too much of a "introduce likeable/dislikable chatacter and kill him later for good" :smallannoyed:

Agreed, I was hopping Therkla was going to join the party.

[singleton]

Aw, Therkla. We'll miss ye.

Now, can someone find a can of impsecticide?

Joe

[Dannysmartful]

I think they should resurect Therkla. Then if they ever kill Nale, she can create a Nale Zombie boyfriend-ta da. But very sad. *sniffle*

[David Argall]

Alas for Therkla.

Of course, what else could we expect?
As has been noted, her sort of role is one that frequently ends badly. There are alternatives, but what sort of role was she to play in the future? We certainly can't have Elan dump Haley. Two girls after one boy can play well of course, but our writer has already confessed he has trouble with light romantic comedy. Sticking to what one does well can be very wise.

Therkla's alignment has to remain very close to LE. All the way, she was trying to fufill her LE duties, as much as her hots for Elan would allow. She "sinned" quite massively by LE standards, so we can make a case for marginal LN, NN, or NE, but she is still basic LE.

Now I just don't understand Kubota's attitude here. He left behind 3 living witnesses, loads of evidence, and he expects to walk from the courtroom? He can certainly arrange an alibi, but one that will actually be believed? Yet he does. I can only assume plot immunity.
Of course we did have a lot of people who thought Elan was a real powerhouse fighter whose +20 to hit meant something, which it did if the foe didn't have AC50. [The record for a tricked out defender of their level is at least in the 80's, and likely well above that.] So maybe I am overlooking something. But AFAIC, he gets hung if Hinjo returns and his chance of being the next lord take a serious hit even if Hinjo were not to.

[Rogue 7]

"You see, Hinjo? How dare these upjumped commoners besmirch my honour. As it happens, I have a watertight alibi, as I was dining on my ship all along with Lord and Lady Stooge, Lord Kubota-Supporter and His Holiness, the Cleric Givesalibisformoney. No doubt these dead bodies are all wearing my colours to discredit me - haven't we gone over this before?"


"Unfortunately, Lord Kubota, speaking with the dead half-orc you stand on trial for murder tells a different story. And the testimony of two nobles and a loyal friend to the crown holds just as much weight as that of your allies. Based on their testimony, as well as the evidence of your dead soldiers- whose names, I might add, are not listed as belonging to any other major house or any of our civilian guards, I, the neutral magistrate previously mentioned in Strip 503 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html), hereby convict you on the count of first-degree murder of one Therkla, and hereby sentence you to life in prison."

[chiasaur11]

Oh, and for future reference, Elan:

When Therkla asked if you'd dump Haley for her after she was revived? That's when you're supposed to lie.

Lying about that kinda thing just makes things worse.

Elan of all people should know what hell hath no fury in comparison to.

[quick_comment]

People from Azure City etc. go to a different afterlife than Roy and the other Northeners.

Not true. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html) Southerners & northerners evidently go to the same place.

Her alignment might separate them, though.

[Kobold-Bard]

Not true. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html) Southerners & northerners evidently go to the same place.

Her alignment might separate them, though.

I respectfully disagree (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html)

[Red XIV]

Of course we did have a lot of people who thought Elan was a real powerhouse fighter whose +20 to hit meant something, which it did if the foe didn't have AC50. [The record for a tricked out defender of their level is at least in the 80's, and likely well above that.]
You might have noticed, but Elan didn't use any puns while attacking Kubota in this strip. Apparently he was so angry he forgot to do that. Thus, his attacks were based entirely on his unimpressive Strength, without the Dashing Swordsman class's Charisma bonus. And it certainly looks like his first attack did connect, but did no damage.


I respectfully disagree (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html)
Different check-in, same destination (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0493.html).

Of course, Therkla won't be headed to the Lawful Good afterlife anyway, but we don't really know if people with different alignments can meet in the "pre-afterlife" area where Roy was hanging out last time we saw him.

[InuSaga]

:smallfrown: Saddest. Comic. Ever.

[Kobold-Bard]

:smallfrown: Saddest. Comic. Ever.

I believe the Giant disagrees (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html).:smalltongue:

[Hyudra]

I see a lot of trope discussion, but the one that comes to mind, for me, is Women in Refrigerators. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WomenInRefrigerators)

Female Character? Check.
Promising character that could have gone somewhere? Check.
Ultimately pointless death? Check.
Quickly Forgotten? Shall remain to be seen.

That was my kneejerk reaction, anyways. It's missing some of the horror that tends to accompany WiR, but that's not OotS style by any stretch of the imagination.

Can't say I enjoyed this strip.

[Caractacus]

I think David Argall has a point in the midst of his post.

We were told in the strip (admittedly by the far-from reliable Elan) that if Daigo were to chase Kubota, he may well get himself poisoned too. If that is the way that the ring works on Ootsworld, then it has multiple usages (although I reckon that Elan is just guessing, but still), and that would mean that he missed a GOLDEN opportunity to scratch House Daigo out of existence on the way out. In fact, a little bit of wangling and I-don't-even-have-a-weapon-ing could have got him into a situation where Kazumi got the first scratch, not Therkla.

Not that I am complaining: Kazumi is a less well-rounded (pregnancy notwithstanding) character than Therkla, or at least less well explored (not going to use that one...sorry :smallwink: ), but she still has the advantages of being a definite good guy, and nice and kind. It's just a shame that one of them had to go... :smallfrown:

[maxon]

Oh blimey. Elan is so gonna kill Kubota dead. Or he's going to want to.

[katkin]

Oh, I should say I think Elan really isn't showing himself to have a high Int or Wis, right? He doesn't seem to know much without a bardic knowledge check and he doesn't seem able to read anyone around him AT ALL. I would say wis and Int were his dump stats but he was able to cast at least a couple of spells. Wisdom is understanding situations and peoples actions, right? Wis is the base for Sense Motive? I don't have the books with me at work I am just thinking of how he seems just so clueless except in very basic ways...

I'm not trying to insult the character or the comic, I love the comic to death. I just sorta feel like Elan's a little flat. I'd like to see him be more useful and play a better support role instead of pain in Roy's side...:smallfrown:

He needs a catalyst to do that and this is clearly it. People don't go about improving themselves when they are happy getting along how they are- they need something to show them how inadequete they actually are. And I think this comic and Therkla's death, will prove to Elan that he needs to change and grow up, cos the rest of the Order aren't around to bail him out.

Fantastic comic Giant! I really cried. It was like when I first saw Eric but way, way sadder!

[Enlong]

I believe the Giant disagrees (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html).:smalltongue:

Bah, I disagreed with that title back on page 3.

[Enlong]

I think David Argall has a point in the midst of his post.

We were told in the strip (admittedly by the far-from reliable Elan) that if Daigo were to chase Kubota, he may well get himself poisoned too. If that is the way that the ring works on Ootsworld, then it has multiple usages (although I reckon that Elan is just guessing, but still), and that would mean that he missed a GOLDEN opportunity to scratch House Daigo out of existence on the way out. In fact, a little bit of wangling and I-don't-even-have-a-weapon-ing could have got him into a situation where Kazumi got the first scratch, not Therkla.

Not that I am complaining: Kazumi is a less well-rounded (pregnancy notwithstanding) character than Therkla, or at least less well explored (not going to use that one...sorry :smallwink: ), but she still has the advantages of being a definite good guy, and nice and kind. It's just a shame that one of them had to go... :smallfrown:
He was using Total Defense to evade Elan's attacks. Scratching the Katos
would've left himself open. He decided to kill the traitor and then leave to cover up all the evidence.
Incidentally, trying Speak With Dead may not work so well. The corpse gives cryptic answers anyway, and Therkla was trying to keep anyone from being implicated.

[UncleWolf]

Her and Thog would have been perfect for each other.
I could have seen it...

*sniff*

[RosesOnConcrete]

Therkla....*weeps* God damn, that hurt to read.

DIE, KUBOTA YOU BASTARD, DIE!!! Either V vaporizes him, or Elan goes all unstoppable-rage and cuts him to ribbons, +5 armor or not. (Dashing Swordsman has to have some sort of modifier for revenge-on-killer-of-love-interest, right?)

[Belkster11]

Yes. I think "Moral Outrage=Super Power Increases" fits with the Dashing Swordsman.

No one hurts a woman interest in front of the Dashing Swordsman and expects to get away alive.

No one.

Therkla...It was just so tragic. :smallfrown: All she wanted was a boyfriend...

[John Campbell]

Oh, and for future reference, Elan:

When Therkla asked if you'd dump Haley for her after she was revived? That's when you're supposed to lie.

Doesn't even have to be a lie! Elan and Therkla and Haley's Latent Bisexuality could've lived happily ever after.

[Shatteredtower]

I see a lot of trope discussion, but the one that comes to mind, for me, is Women in Refrigerators. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WomenInRefrigerators)No, she's more of a disposable woman -- which, unfortunately, is the sort of convention you'd expect to be associated with Elan's prestige class.


Promising character that could have gone somewhere? Check.

Promising? Nothing indicates that she'd ever be more than the imaginary angle needed to produce a virtual love triangle.


Quickly Forgotten?

Like Gwen Stacey?

[Eric]

And I think this comic and Therkla's death, will prove to Elan that he needs to change and grow up, cos the rest of the Order aren't around to bail him out.

I have a rather off-the-wall idea that this isn't to get Elan or V or any character to grow.

It's to get Hinjo to grow. With Kabuto able to with impunity lie his way out of anything and kill dozens of people at will by his machinations, Hinjo may realise that if you are to do Good you sometimes cannot be Lawful. And maybe Shojo had the right idea.

He may then forgive his uncle and realise that LG doesn't mean leader. Even for a Paladin and maybe some flexibility is needed. He is, after all, responsible for every refugee's safety. A safety that is endangered by Kabuto's presence. He can't afford to follow the law if the good is compromised by it.

I'm sure there are at least three people willing to break the law and end the menace.

[Sequinox]

For my feelings about therkla's death, see the 'who cried after todays strip' thread.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! NOT THERKLA! (I had to get that out)

I hate kubota. He makes a great villain, but he gets me soooo mad...

[Meshakhad]

RIP Therkla.

I hope that Kubota faces justice. But not in the form of Elan's rapier.

See, Kubota cares a great deal about his reputation. It's not an obsession - were he to be disgraced, it would be fairly easy for Hinjo to destroy him. If Elan kills him in a fit of rage, then the truth will never be fully confirmed. Kubota's allies will maintain he was innocent of any wrongdoing. And Hinjo will be weaker.

But what would be far more appropriate would be for Kubota to stand trial, destroying his reputation. No life imprisonment, though. Kubota is a traitor and a murderer. He gets the katana.

[Tholok Razescar]

No, she's more of a disposable woman -- which, unfortunately, is the sort of convention you'd expect to be associated with Elan's prestige class.



Promising? Nothing indicates that she'd ever be more than the imaginary angle needed to produce a virtual love triangle.



Like Gwen Stacey?

Who, now? *puzzled*

[Enlong]

Who, now? *puzzled*

Spiderman love-interest. Got killed off when the Green Goblin threw her off a bridge, and Spidey tried to save her by snagging her with a web-line. The whiplash snapped her neck. It was a landmark moment for the comic (a love interest died! Like, for real!), and a moment of much angst for the Webslinger.

[nowiwantmydmg]

Who, now? *puzzled*

Spidermans first girlfriend. She was dropped by a villian and when he tried to catch her with his webs, the sudden stop snapped her neck and killed her.

The revertabrations of that moment continue to play a role in his character/stories.

[Tholok Razescar]

Spiderman love-interest. Got killed off when the Green Goblin threw her off a bridge, and Spidey tried to save her by snagging her with a web-line. The whiplash snapped her neck. It was a landmark moment for the comic (a love interest died! Like, for real!), and a moment of much angst for the Webslinger.

Oh.
...
Right,then.

[Shatteredtower]

Who, now? *puzzled*

Gwen Stacey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwen_Stacey). Despite having died in 1973 (and 2001, and...), reference to her keeps popping up in Spider-Man comics.

[AKA_Bait]

Still, I can't really see a plot twist that would get the Order exiled at this point - Hinjo needs them far too badly to let them go just like that. That would only work if he managed to get support from the nobles in one fell swoop at the same time.

I can.

If V were to, say, fireball Kubota as he escapes on his boat and kill him that could put Hinjo in a very precarious position politically. All the testimony of the Kato's and Elan would be useless if the nobles were convinced that V had murdered Kubota, particularly if they also thought it was done at Hinjo's direction. Hinjo might then have to exile them (it might be the only better option than executing them) in order to keep the remaing Azure city refugees from falling apart. I'm sure Kubota isn't the only scheming noble out there...

[Crinos]

I think that the best comeuppance for Kubota was for him to arrive back at his ship, only to find the Linear Guild.

Who were there to recruit Therkla.

Because she's Thog's baby sister.

That +5 armor may protect him from Elan's sword, but I bet it gives him a really crummy swim check. :smallbiggrin:

[turkishproverb]

Long time reader, first time poster (main reason for not posting is that like most forums, this board moves way faster then I can check it).

I don't think this is the last we'll see of Therkla. I for one think she'll meet Roy's Dad and the Fairy there... should make for some fun conversation...

That's what I was thinking too. Would be funny.

[FoE]

I hate kubota ... he gets me soooo mad

In my opinion, that is the mark of a great villain.

[bibliophile]

A lot of people have been screaming bloody murder and demanding Kubota's head on a platter, but I have to disagree - I hope that he survives and retains his position. This is partially because I admire him for his cool and collected manner, but also because survival is crucial for his status as an enemy.

Consider the nature of the other villains in the comic. Xykon is the comedic power-tripper, obsessed with destroying the universe even though there won't be much left to lord over - but that doesn't matter because it'll be a riot doing it anyway. Redcloak is the smouldering furnace, a tight, controted, crushingly constricted knot of spite and hatred throttling all goodness out of his withered heart. Nale and his Linear Guild are the traditional Evil Twin/Doppelganger trope. Tsukiko's necrotic obsessions has the gross revulsion factor, while her character is that of the juvenile bully, caring only for her own amusement, and deriving that amusement from hurting people.

Lord Kubota belongs to a different class of villain. He's the schemer, the manipulator, the Machievellian web-spinner. He lives for conspiracy and intrigue - he is The Man With The Plan.

If we're to respect Lord Kubota as a villain, that plan has to work, otherwise he just becomes a bumbling fool whose character stops being compelling and starts becoming contemptible, and the comic would be worse off for it. He should not fall at the first hurdle, because having Vaarsuvius just spring out of nowhere and destroy him might give readers a brief thrill of satisfaction but would ultimately diffuse a great source of drama and be hollow and dissatisfying. It is far more appropriate and fulfilling for such characters eventually overreach themselves and become entangled in their own webs.

Furthermore, Lord Kubota's survival would help to define Elan further, as well as accentuating the drama in general. Dashing Swordsmen need to learn how to sashay skilfully through High Society and bow and backflip through courtly dramas. This involves more than sweeping voluptuous heiresses off their feet in extravagant voltas, or swinging on chandeliers and leaping off lofty parapets; he needs to have a rival to glower at darkly across the ballroom, with strategic manoeuvres around the dinner table to avoid leaving one's back exposed. Lord Kubota fulfils this role admirably. He's the enemy whose confident smirk outclasses the swordsman's witty puns - he's The One That Got Away, the kink in the smooth operator's composure that will be straightened out, one day. One day...!


I will be very disappointed if Lord Kubota dies soon - I certainly hope he'll be hatching plots and concocting plans for a long time to come.



You make an excellent point. Kubuta is what nale wishes he could be. He is certainly a marvelous villain in both senses of the phrase. I for one would be interested to see him live, but I am not sure that is going to happen.
On one hand he commited a dastardly act and left witnesess behind. Even if Kubuta hides behind the laws of city somehow, elan is chaotic (recall belkar being chased by windstrikers lawyer). He will devote considerable effort to putting him down, and is probably capable of it too.
On the other hand, Kubuta is prepared and intelligent. He almost certainly has a way of avoiding retribution, either by getting elan killed, exiled, or get protection from the laws of the city/fleet. There is the noted comment by the demon roaches about other factions, which Kubuta might factor into, but perhaps not.
Kubuta's survival is, in my humble opinion, an even chance. He may live, he may die, even the very wise cannot see all ends.



And now for something completely different, Therkla. What, if any role will she continue to play in the story? My money is nothing; she will, like miko, not come into the comic again. She was a one trick one pony; miko was a fanatic, Therkla was a girl with a crush. But unlike miko she showed some change over the course of the comic. When first introduced there is no question that she was LE. She remained Lawful, but her speech that she did not care about "good guys and bad guys", strongly shows that she has drifted to LN. That development in her character would be wasted if she did not return. But was it enough to make her a main charecter? I think not. Her development was too little to late, she will not return.

[Callista]

Yup. Totally predicted that. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4690117#post4690117) Eponine all the way.

*snif*

[Rollin]

I know it's been said, but... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigNo)

[Hallavast]

If three eye witnesses including two respected nobles and the ruler's personal bodyguard can't get Kubota convicted of treason, then I don't see the point in the People of AC's legal system.

And if their legal system is that corrupt and broken, then I really don't feel sorry for them being exiled from their city.

[SoC175]

Afterward you explain that you couldn't stand just letting her die,
Why? This a a D&D world we're talking about, it's not as if dying means the end of your "life". The only real thing speaking against her death would be the fear that her soul ends in the LE afterlife instead of the LN afterlife

[Callista]

It does if you don't want to come back. Therkla doesn't, by all accounts; and with the way she's redeemed herself--not quite a classic redemption, but I think it counts--she's almost certainly not going to land herself in a bad afterlife.

[tojo102]

I think maybe RB needs to go back and change the title of OOTS #84

[SoC175]

It does if you don't want to come back
No, your "life" still goes in an afterlife that is known to exist. Even if she never again sets a foot on the prime material plane, death still only means a new beginning

No much different from moving to annother country. Instead of being a teleport away she's a planeshift away, just like Celia said

[Lamech]

I know Kubota's defense. (Or at least a possible and effective one.)
Modify Memory is a bard spell, Elan ran off with the evil ninja, the Kato testimony won't matter, all Kubota has to do is discredit Elan. And since Elan ran off with the evil ninja, and killed one of Kubota's men...

[SoC175]

I know Kubota's defense. (Or at least a possible and effective one.)
Modify Memory is a bard spell, Elan ran off with the evil ninja, the Kato testimony won't matter, all Kubota has to do is discredit Elan. And since Elan ran off with the evil ninja, and killed one of Kubota's men...
As speak with dead merely plays the memories imprinted on the corpse's brain and doesn't recall the spirit of the deceased a corpse questioned this way does not lie. So the dead guards make even better witnesses than they would make had they been captured alive

[Rogue 7]

If three eye witnesses including two respected nobles and the ruler's personal bodyguard can't get Kubota convicted of treason, then I don't see the point in the People of AC's legal system.

And if their legal system is that corrupt and broken, then I really don't feel sorry for them being exiled from their city.

This would...actually make for a decent plot point for Hinjo. As I posted above, I don't think there's any way Kubota can weasel his way out of this one. I've watched enough Law & Order to know that much. So if the justice system fails to uphold the law and the good, what's a paladin to do? I think we might end up seeing Hinjo start to make some radical changes to the Azure City code of laws. Goodness knows that the situation would merit Martial Law. Now, I've got full confidence that Hinjo will be able to construct a good, fair, and honest law system and not degenerate into a knight templar (we had that with Miko), but it'd make for interesting character development to realize that the justice system is not necessarily the law, in extreme cases.

[pendell]

WRT a courtroom trial, consider this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0271.html).

Note that during the trial AC was able to subpoena the spirit of a dead goblin that was present at the destruction of Dorukon's castle. Presumably this was a cross-alignment call.

So if you can compel dead of any alignment to momentarily return from the afterlife to give testimony in court, you've got the dead samurai, Therkla, as well as the living Daigo, Kazumi, and Elan who are all witnesses to his treachery. An autopsy would reveal that Therkla died of a specific kind of poison. It may then be possible to determine where the poison came from, and why.

It seems to me that the evidence is incontrovertible. You have three living and three dead witnesses. AC has no laws against Zone of Truth or mind-probing magic. Shouldn't this be an open-and-shut case?

Respectfully,

Brian P .

[Gygaxphobia]

Awesome comic, most emotional death in OOTS so far IMHO.

[Jeivar]

Smug bastard must die.

A lot.

I like seeing the petrified demon visible in the far distance, though.

And could someone give me the basic lowdown on the D&D Neutral afterlife?

[Warren Dew]

I ought to feel sad, as I started liking Therkla when she suddenly became the only sensible character around last strip. Unfortunately, I could see that the easiest way to avoid an uncomfortable and extraneous romantic triangle side plot was to let Therkla die from the poison.


Now I just don't understand Kubota's attitude here. He left behind 3 living witnesses, loads of evidence, and he expects to walk from the courtroom?

I think he expects for there not to be a courtroom. He may also have left the Katos' ship rudderless or holed; that won't eliminate them permanently, but may keep them incommunicando long enough for him to get control of the fleet, especially if, as is his working assumption, Hinjo doesn't come back.

He didn't have much choice but to go, given he's by himself. My question is, why didn't he do so a strip earlier, when Therkla gave him that opportunity? I can see two possible answers:

- Perhaps he thought it was important to punish Therkla as a traitor to house Kubota. It's not so much that he has anything against Therkla personally, but possibly he needs the demonstration to maintain discipline. Possibly this was even the point of his visit, and the Katos were just a red herring.

- Perhaps he had enough honor that he would have felt bound to keep a promise to Therkla to leave the fleet. He doesn't seem like that honorable a guy, but Therkla must have gotten her honor somewhere.

While Kubota is far from pure and good, I think people are being a little unfair to him. He's the ruler of a house with obligations to its members, just as Hinjo was ruler of the city with obligations to its populace. He seems to have discharged those obligations better than Hinjo has, by extracting most of his house from the doomed city before the battle rather than letting most of them die. He was a good enough mentor to Therkla for her to have a high degree of loyalty to him. There's little evidence that he's betraying the interests of his house; mostly he's seen fighting for the good of his house.

I don't think he's nearly as evil as Xykon or Redcloak; he might even be D&D neutral.

Now that the potential love triangle arc is taken care of, what else needs to happen before the order gets back together? Well, one thing is that they probably need to shed the fleet so that they can return to being an adventuring band rather than a group attached to an itinerant kingdom. And one way that could happen is that, contrary to expectations, Hinjo could lose and Kubota could actually gain control of the fleet. This would also allow the devils to become a major faction for later.

The main argument against that is that it would be too fast; as David previously pointed out, the order would get back together about 80 strips too early for that to be the end of a book. On the other hand, 80 strips is probably not enough to squeeze in a resolution of Girard's gate. It might be about right for Roy to discover necessary details about the gate and to rebuild the broken morale and discipline of the order, though.

[Zolem]

If three eye witnesses including two respected nobles and the ruler's personal bodyguard can't get Kubota convicted of treason, then I don't see the point in the People of AC's legal system.

And if their legal system is that corrupt and broken, then I really don't feel sorry for them being exiled from their city.

Amen to that. Also side note that is quite sad that I haven't seen anyone mention yet. Durkon is told that he heard nothing by Lien, who wants to SEARCH THE ISLAND BECAUSE SHE IS 100% SURE THE EVIL NINJA KIDNAPED ELAN! If she had been less ridged and accepted that she wasn't evil she might have been willing to let Durkon go off on his own rather than keep him around for backup. If Lien says somthing like "Well at least you killed that evil ninja." we just might see Elan lose all patience with the paladins (and possibly punch Lien in the jaw) and go rouge (not the class, the behavior) and just kill Kubota no matter what the consequences.

[disorder]

Alas for Therkla.

Of course, what else could we expect?
As has been noted, her sort of role is one that frequently ends badly. There are alternatives, but what sort of role was she to play in the future? We certainly can't have Elan dump Haley.
No, but Therkla's last big rant before she was poisoned made it clear that she was growing up, and would soon realize that her life doesn't have to revolve around Elan or Kabota. That, in part, is why it hurts to see her die just short of taking that step.

She has presumably spent her life being rejected because of her mixed blood, and she grabs way too hard onto anyone who treats her fairly -- first Kubota, then Elan. What she's obsessed with isn't necessarily Elan, just acceptance. On the island, she was intrigued by the idea of joining Hinjo's side, whether or not she ends up with Elan as her lover.

Of course, Hinjo shoots that idea down -- not because of her heritage, but because she's too deeply entangled in Kubota's crimes. But now that she's laid her life on the line to protect the Katos, her argument for amnesty is a lot stronger. And one thing she failed to notice at the end -- understandably, since she was sick and delirious -- is that Daigo and Kazumi rallied to help her without hesitation. Hell, Daigo was chasing down potions for Therkla when he could have been chopping up the man who tried to kill his pregant wife.

Makes me wish Elan had pointed out all this, and gotten her to see she's got a chance to build a life she can be proud of, and people who will help her build that life. That's gotta be worth a +2 circumstance bonus on her save...or worst-case, a reason for her to accept that Raise Dead spell.

[Draz74]

we just might see Elan lose all patience with the paladins (and possibly punch Lien in the jaw) and go rouge (not the class, the behavior) and just kill Kubota no matter what the consequences.

Rouge is a behavior? I thought it was more of a color, if not a substance ...


Awesome comic, most emotional death in OOTS so far IMHO.

I dunno. I nominate this one. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html)

[Leo_Forestclaw]

I'd like to point out something here that Rich does on an unnaturally regular basis: take throw-away side characters and make you love them. Their faults, their quirks, their slavish tropes and then he twists it so you find yourself literally gasping at a story told with STICK figures.

Amazing and remarkable.

Tip of the hat, Rich. It is so very deserved.

Great strip, wonderful story-telling. You sure you can't pump these out on the hour? ;-)

[Mike_the_Mystic]

Yippee-Kiyay Mother-F***er!!!!!! Therkla's Dead!!!!! :biggrin:

All that remains is for :vaarsuvius: to disintegrate Kubota and we can get back to the real bad guys. (Or at least to Haley fighting her old guild people, anything to get away from these damned ninjas and boats.)

Please let Durkon have one of Roy's toenails, I miss him :smallfrown:

Wow, dude, chill. Don't be such a cold, heartless, bastard. Don't please. Not because of me being a "Killjoy" to you, but for your own mental safety, you WILL be mindraped by the hordes of Therkla supporters.

[M84]

Heyall,

Wow...wow just wow.

This was definitely a Tearjerker of a comic, and for a side character at that. Heck, one that wasn't even around for that many strips!

Kubota's officially entered Bastard territory. Whether he is of the Magnificent variety depends on whether or not he gets away with everything in the next couple of strips. Say what you will though, he was Crazy Prepared. Not only did he have a metric ton of protective gear on him and a poisoned ring, he also deliberately engineered a weak spot in his Dragon just in case he needed to get rid of her! That's taking a page right out of Jade Empire (those who've played the game/read about it on any wiki will know what I mean).

On another note, I guess we can confirm that Therkla will stay dead. Not only does she have the X's, she's also stated that she'll refuse resurrection if it means living w/o Elan. I can't say I blame her...unrequited love sucks.

[Stormoverkrynn]

Kobuta is a true villian, I am sure he has planned for every possible contingency. He was prepared for Therka(his highest level minion). Elan is a high level and couldnt even touch him. He just pretty much walked out of the room. Now as for Kobuta being punished by the councel..they have to catch him first. Xykon is the main villian but he again seem to be alittle arogant cause no one can currently stop him and well he is alittle higher level, and well he is also a lich, and currently he only seems interested in entertaining himself(ie he is playing around with a paladin he wants to kill, but atm he is being entertained so no need to move on atm) Kobuta btw imho is a rather intelligent villian, he knew what he needed and was prepared. He raised and used Therka till she was no longer useful and then got rid of her when she wasnt needed. Even if he does make it off the ship and Hinjo finds everything out, they have to catch Kobuta first and by that time he might have a few more tricks up his sleeve....atm he has his own personal imp. I think Kobuta is far from done. As far as Thurka dieing goes, IMHO it was kinda expected. Elan aside, who would truely trust her, and by showing up on the ship she proved that Kobuta could no longer trust her either. She was doomed to death by her own hand.

[otakuryoga]

a few others mentioned it...the Les Miserables tie in....LOVE IT

especially since Eponines death song is my fave track from the play

as for Therkla passing on.....
:smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown::s mallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown:

[LuisDantas]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The killed Mystra Therkla! And I was just about starting to sympathize with her Т_Т

I feel the same. This strip and the previous one really made her likeable.

[Warren Dew]

- Perhaps he thought it was important to punish Therkla as a traitor to house Kubota. It's not so much that he has anything against Therkla personally, but possibly he needs the demonstration to maintain discipline. Possibly this was even the point of his visit, and the Katos were just a red herring.

On further thought, this seems less likely. Kubota would have had to predict that Elan and the Katos had no way of counteracting the poison. That leaves the "honor" theory, which seems weak as well.

It's to be noted that Therkla actually does get both halves of her choice: Elan and the Katos all survive. For that matter, it's possible that Kubota and Hinjo will go their own ways, so she may posthumously get her way in that as well.

I don't think Elan will be out to get revenge on Kubota at all costs. Kubota left him a chance to save Therkla; it was partly Elan's own fault that he couldn't successfully take advantage of that chance. Nor was he in love with Therkla. If he gets a chance for revenge he might take it, but it won't be his first priority.

[d'Bwobsling]

a few others mentioned it...the Les Miserables tie in....LOVE IT

especially since Eponines death song is my fave track from the play

as for Therkla passing on.....
:smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown::s mallfrown::smallfrown::smallfrown:

She totally had it coming, though

[horngeek]

I've just read the strip, and i can call what elan is going to sing on his roaring rampage of revenge-
"kill, kill, kill, kill the tratiorious evil villian"

[Eraniverse]

Kobuta is a true villian, I am sure he has planned for every possible contingency. He was prepared for Therka(his highest level minion). Elan is a high level and couldnt even touch him. He just pretty much walked out of the room.

Hardly every contingency. After simply walking out of the room he got into a tiny dinghy to return to his ship.

Had Elan been... not Elan then the following exchange might have occurred just as he boarded:

Elan: Got a Ring of Water Breathing to go with your poison one?
*anchor or other heavy object crashes through the dinghy's floor*
Kubota: Glub glub...

[LuisDantas]

While Kubota is far from pure and good, I think people are being a little unfair to him. (...)

I don't think he's nearly as evil as Xykon or Redcloak; he might even be D&D neutral.

Huh? Neutral characters don't go around ordering assassinations for personal gain. If his House demands such things, heck with it.

Neither was it just once, either. So far Kubota has already tried to kill Hinjo, Elan, the Katos and their unborn child; discarded a number of loyal henchmen in traitorous ways, and killed Therkla.

Neutral my a**.

[Zerkai]

Kubota Neutral? Ha! Probably the same people who thought Belkar was Neutral.

But... damn. I expected it was coming. I expected it, but I wish I wasn't right. Therkla was one of my favorite characters when she showed up. She had alot of funny moments revolving around her, my personal favorite was;

Therkla: *Behind alter, holding up Banjo* 'So tell me, Elan, have you ever thought about how you might become closer to your God? Like, a LOT closer?'

XD Ah... we'll always have teh Therkla strips to look back on with delight, and those that dislike her can look back on it with a different kind of delight. Anyways I digress. This scene was a real tearjerker for me as well, but at least if she died, then she did so in the arms of the man she loved, it's the only death she'd want.

What always get's me angry though, is those 'Just a second(Or 6 in this case) too late' moments. Daigo showing up right after Therkla's death with a crapload of potions and spells just get's my blood boiling. It could have shown the death of therkla, Elan grieves, and just show the outside of the boat like in the last panel, but they have to make it even sadder by House Kato arriving too late, showing, had they been a bit faster or Elan had cut them loose sooner, would have come back in time to save her... we don't need to see that them arrive too late... we really don't... :smallfrown:

[darkriku2000]

"Resist Resist Resist the urge to cry!"

Wow, that was a sad one

[Solara]

Argh, this is the first comic I haven't liked in...well, ever. :smallfrown:

It's not the fact that Therkla died, but the way her death was both pointless and predictable. Everyone's been saying she was going to die in Elan's arms, and I was really hoping the Giant would overturn expectations and pull a surprise out of his sleeve, usually he's good about that.

But instead to all appearances we just lost what could have been an awesome character just because some retarded trope apparently calls for it. Hopefully I'm wrong and we'll see Therkla again, even if it's just a small scene in the afterlife, but after the speech about her not wanting to be brought back it looks like the Giant is making a point about her death being permanent...which if true quite frankly sucks because Therkla's character arc doesn't feel anywhere near complete.

I'm not saying Therkla had to have as much impact on the plot as a certain paladin, but that one at least got to die doing something purposeful and important. As I said, maybe (hopefully!) things will change later, but right now I can't help but feel the entire Elan/Therkla arc could have been written out entirely without changing much in the big picture, and as much as I loved it while it lasted I can't help but wonder what the point of all this was in the first place....I dislike it when any story manipulates emotions just for the sake of manipulating emotions.

[InuSaga]

I believe the Giant disagrees (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0084.html).:smalltongue:

Meh. That one never moved me.

This one though? I felt a tear. Just a little one, but it was there. Poor Therkla. Poor Elan. Poor me. :smallwink: