Poison, eh?O

[Trixie]

Okay, so Kubota pulls a magnificent bastard and actually accomplished something. But, why he didn't try to poison (tied) Daigo and Kazumi? It would have been easy. Hell, if he can fight Elan for 10 rounds thank to his high AC, why not poison him, too? Then, all that is left is dumping several bodies overboard and be done with it. After all, eliminating them was his goal from a start. If nothing else, it would have cost Hinjo several dozen kilo$ to bring them back, weakening him further.

So far, all he accomplished was to lose his best assasin, his strongest bodyguards and several samurai and ninja, for no profit at all. Even worse - he has several people hating him slightly more now. No damage control? Then how he climbed to his position? By sheer luck?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

He may only have had the one ring prepared. Poisoning an item takes a few actions, and if this is injury poison, he can't just dump it on them and hope.

[The Rose Dragon]

Because he has one dose of poison and he could only use it on someone flat-footed?

Besides, poisoning the Katos would arouse suspicion.

[Tundar]

If he makes any actions, he will loose his all out defence AC.
Besides, Hinjo is his primary target.

[Kaytara]

Elan seemed to think Kubota would be able to get another shot at poisoning them.

But it's Elan.

[David Argall]

Since Kubota seems to think Elan need about 19-20 to hit him, abandoning total defense lowers that to 15, making it a near certainity that he will take a serious wound. While Elan is not likely to kill him, it is a definite risk, and he will be leaving his blood on Elan's weapon, more evidence of his guilt.

[Trixie]

Because he has one dose of poison and he could only use it on someone flat-footed?

Besides, poisoning the Katos would arouse suspicion.

They are bound; they can be simply coup-de-graced, right?

As for suspicion: pffft, like that whole scene didn't raise any suspicion. Simply say that ninjas poisoned them (and threw the bodies overboard) while Kubota's samurai heroically tried to stop them losing their lives in process (and they would even say so if asked with speak with dead - Therkla killed them, after all).


Since Kubota seems to think Elan need about 19-20 to hit him, abandoning total defense lowers that to 15, making it a near certainity that he will take a serious wound. While Elan is not likely to kill him, it is a definite risk, and he will be leaving his blood on Elan's weapon, more evidence of his guilt.

From class and level geekery - Elan would have hit him with a natural thirty, so abandoning total defense won't be that bad for a few rounds.

[Caractacus]

I just posted on this in the main thread. I should have looked first.

To be honest, some of the explanations work well, but not all of them. The 'only use on flat-footed' one is the best, as there's no one in that state any more, at least at the end of the comic, but surely being tied up does that to you? (I wouldn't know, as my idea of 'd20' is Advanced from the 80s...). So he could have had a go on the way out.

But otherwise, surely poisoning them and then dumping them overboard would work? Or why not poison them and put the ring on one of the 'attackers' fingers (i.e. Elan)? Or change the story slightly and leave the ring on one of the ninja's fingers?

I guess that ultimately it's down to 'one shot'.

In addition, if he is a truly evil bad guy, then he would actually rather have the heroes suffer (Therkla's death and his escape scot free) than simply kill them - having them alive, angry and impotent gives him a thrill... :smallmad:

[Theodoriph]

Okay, so Kubota pulls a magnificent bastard and actually accomplished something. But, why he didn't try to poison (tied) Daigo and Kazumi? It would have been easy. Hell, if he can fight Elan for 10 rounds thank to his high AC, why not poison him, too? Then, all that is left is dumping several bodies overboard and be done with it. After all, eliminating them was his goal from a start. If nothing else, it would have cost Hinjo several dozen kilo$ to bring them back, weakening him further.

So far, all he accomplished was to lose his best assasin, his strongest bodyguards and several samurai and ninja, for no profit at all. Even worse - he has several people hating him slightly more now. No damage control? Then how he climbed to his position? By sheer luck?



Poisons of that kind are quite expensive. Any middle-class commoner can hire some killers. Killers come cheap. So if the Katos had died via contract killers, there are far more suspects. Poisoning someone in D&D requires money, which generally means nobility.

Also, poisoning someone leaves a trail. The poison had to come from somewhere, so you can trace it back. How many dealers in expensive poisons do you think there are? Just find the ones in the area and interrogate them and you can get a list of everyone who has bought the poison that was used to poison the Katos. If Kubota used his own killers, so long as they left no evidence behind, there would be no trail. With poison, there's always a trail. Of course, this isn't as strong a point in a world with divinations and such :smallsmile:

[Belkster11]

True, but remember that they have Elan who's a witness to all this. I'm sure even HE wouldn't see Kabota gutting the Dagos with a poisoned ring and NOT tell Hinjo about this.

But this begs the question: Why did Kabota target the Dagos if they're not even the real target? By having the other pplz fight Quarr's demon, he's just screwed his own plan up.

If I were Kabota, I would have hired assassins to secretly enter Hinjo's room when he's sleeping, kill him and dump his body into the water. Then I'd have them pull a Macbeth and put the bloodied swords into the body guard's hands (and take their own not-bloodied ones). That way, Hinjo's dead and I'm scot-free.

Some "cunning villain" he is. Never underestimate one with a high skill in Theatrics...especially if you're doing your diabodical deed IN FRONT OF THEM! :smallyuk:

[AKA_Bait]

If I were Kabota, I would have hired assassins to secretly enter Hinjo's room when he's sleeping, kill him and dump his body into the water. Then I'd have them pull a Macbeth and put the bloodied swords into the body guard's hands (and take their own not-bloodied ones). That way, Hinjo's dead and I'm scot-free.


Easier said than done. Remember that the OotS and several other high level characters are on the same ship. Not to mention Hinjo himself and potentially Argent. Also, Kubota has triend sending assassians before. It's old hand now.

[Ron Miel]

So far, all he accomplished was to lose his best assasin, his strongest bodyguards and several samurai and ninja, for no profit at all. Even worse - he has several people hating him slightly more now. No damage control? Then how he climbed to his position? By sheer luck?

No, by sacrificing minions. Is there any problem it can't solve?

[chiasaur11]

No, by sacrificing minions. Is there any problem it can't solve?

Only being out of minions.

[Pronounceable]

There's always more where they come from.

[JonathanC]

I just posted on this in the main thread. I should have looked first.

To be honest, some of the explanations work well, but not all of them. The 'only use on flat-footed' one is the best, as there's no one in that state any more, at least at the end of the comic, but surely being tied up does that to you? (I wouldn't know, as my idea of 'd20' is Advanced from the 80s...). So he could have had a go on the way out.

But otherwise, surely poisoning them and then dumping them overboard would work? Or why not poison them and put the ring on one of the 'attackers' fingers (i.e. Elan)? Or change the story slightly and leave the ring on one of the ninja's fingers?

I guess that ultimately it's down to 'one shot'.

In addition, if he is a truly evil bad guy, then he would actually rather have the heroes suffer (Therkla's death and his escape scot free) than simply kill them - having them alive, angry and impotent gives him a thrill... :smallmad:
Poisoning/dumping would work how? How exactly is an Aristocrat built for Intelligence and Charisma is going to drag three bodies to the edge of the ship and dump them fast enough to avoid detection? Likewise, how does he explain the disappearance? The ninja attack wasn't going to make the Katos disappear; just make it look like they'd been murdered by ninjas before Kubota could rescue them.

And while we're on the subject...the Katos are only tied around their arms; they can still move somewhat. And even if he could still hit them, Elan isn't tied up; what's to stop Elan from either attacking Kubota at his lower AC (since he's no longer full-defending) or putting himself in the path of the attack? Since Elan isn't distracted like Therkla was, he'd have his full AC to avoid Kubota's ridiculously low melee attack bonus.

No, I'd say Kubota did the best he could under the circumstances: he rid himself of a treacherous underling and managed to escape before his plan could totally backfire on him.


Or so he hopes.

[LuisDantas]

My feeling is that Kubota is not particularly aiming to eliminate Elan and the Katos. Rather, he seems to enjoy pissing Hinjo and his supporters to such a degree that he is stalling any true resolution as much as he can.

On a larger scale, doing so is also advantageous to him in the longer term because it feeds his mystique as un undefeatable schemer that just can't be discounted even when he looks completely defeated. His enemies will feel increasingly uncertain, even desperate, when dealing with him.

Much as Elan is feeling now.

[Corwin Weber]

The Katos were a target because they offend Kubota's sensibilities. Remember, they're promoted soldiers. Commoners. They've been promoted to the nobility. Kubota has a very highly developed sense of noblesse snobbery.

He sees them as being uppity common soldiers (arrow fodder) promoted above their station. Hell yes he'll kill them given half a chance, especially since they were promoted by Hinjo, who he personally hates in addition to wanting his station.

[chiasaur11]

There's always more where they come from.

Yeah, but sometimes you need to wait weeks before you have enough minions for some jobs.

[AceOfFools]

What gets me about this:

Kubota: "Have you any proof (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html)?"
Hinjo: "I have three witnesses who all claim to have had their lives threatened by you personally who were found with the bodies of two of your personal guard wearing your colors, not to mention other bodies to corroborate their story. Does that count?"

Kubota: "Glad I tied up those loose ends. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0593.html)"

[Child Conscript]

Okay, so Kubota pulls a magnificent bastard and actually accomplished something. But, why he didn't try to poison (tied) Daigo and Kazumi? It would have been easy. Hell, if he can fight Elan for 10 rounds thank to his high AC, why not poison him, too? Then, all that is left is dumping several bodies overboard and be done with it. After all, eliminating them was his goal from a start. If nothing else, it would have cost Hinjo several dozen kilo$ to bring them back, weakening him further.

So far, all he accomplished was to lose his best assasin, his strongest bodyguards and several samurai and ninja, for no profit at all. Even worse - he has several people hating him slightly more now. No damage control? Then how he climbed to his position? By sheer luck?

Its simple.
R.B.S over Y.S.T
AKA
Rich Burlew's Storyline over Your Stupid Slightly questioning Theory

[Caractacus]

Poisoning/dumping would work how? How exactly is an Aristocrat built for Intelligence and Charisma is going to drag three bodies to the edge of the ship and dump them fast enough to avoid detection? Likewise, how does he explain the disappearance? The ninja attack wasn't going to make the Katos disappear; just make it look like they'd been murdered by ninjas before Kubota could rescue them.

And while we're on the subject...the Katos are only tied around their arms; they can still move somewhat. And even if he could still hit them, Elan isn't tied up; what's to stop Elan from either attacking Kubota at his lower AC (since he's no longer full-defending) or putting himself in the path of the attack? Since Elan isn't distracted like Therkla was, he'd have his full AC to avoid Kubota's ridiculously low melee attack bonus.

No, I'd say Kubota did the best he could under the circumstances: he rid himself of a treacherous underling and managed to escape before his plan could totally backfire on him.


Or so he hopes.

Well, I think that being built class-wise for anything else doesn't give you huge bonuses in Corpse-dragging and Corpse-dumping (Water) either. I would recommend the following: add one minion, (pref. ninja) and then if the dumping is seen, publicly slay own ninja.

He is a good organiser, or so we are led to believe, so having one extra ninja around for emergencies that should only reveal itself at a certain sign would not really strain the credibility - at least not if we can swallow the level of preparation that allows him to not even bother dodging on two occasions as his AC is so good...

Oh, and surely being heavily pregnant and tied around the arms should make for a tidy little AC penalty? Even a 'high level commoner' should surely be able to get a hit... Practically speaking, killing Kazumi destroys House Kato.

But there are dozens of reasons for how he could have done things this way or that. I am quite happy with what we got. Now we even have a motivated Elan - time for a little bit of spotlight for him? Or do we think that the Therkla bit WAS his spotlight? I have to say that I am anxious to see what the problem with V is...