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View Full Version : 3.5 Wizard School Specialization Question



knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 03:01 PM
I have a quick and friendly question. I'm playing a wizard this time round, first time spell caster, and my question is this. What bonuses do you get from specializing in a school. I can't seem to find it anywhere, maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. . .
I'd like some input on this. Please :)

Keld Denar
2008-09-18, 03:04 PM
Extra spell slots. You get one extra spell slot each spell level that you can only use to memorize a spell of your spec school.

EDIT: You also qualify for any of the alternate class features in PHBII for getting rid of your familiar. Conjourers, for example, can take Abrupt Jaunt, an immediate action 10' teleport +INT times per day, instead of a familiar.

I think there is also a +2 spellcraft bonuses for IDing and learning spells of your specialty, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

Morty
2008-09-18, 03:05 PM
You get one extra spell slot for every spell level that needs to be filled with a spell from your specialized school. For example, a 1st level Evoker will have an extra 1st level slot that he needs to fill with an evocation spell.
EDIT: Ninja'd, of course.

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-18, 03:05 PM
You also get a +2 to Spellcraft checks involving either identifying or learning spells from your specialist school.

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 03:07 PM
ok thanks everyone :)

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-18, 03:08 PM
What do you think your specialist and barred schools will end up being?

monty
2008-09-18, 03:15 PM
If you don't like giving up schools, but want extra spells, you might want to consider the Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) variant. You don't give up any schools, but you have to fill your extra slots with very specific spells.

Frosty
2008-09-18, 03:17 PM
Domain Wizards are kind of Overpowered, but then, all Wizards are.

RTGoodman
2008-09-18, 03:21 PM
Also, one thing to remember is that, when you add two new spells to you spellbook at each level, at least one HAS to be from your school.


Spells Gained at a New Level

Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school.

Forgetting that can be a bit broken - I had a Divination specialist once that had a ton of spells, but only maybe 1 spell of each level was Divination.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-18, 03:24 PM
Also, one thing to remember is that, when you add two new spells to you spellbook at each level, at least one HAS to be from your school.

Forgetting that can be a bit broken - I had a Divination specialist once that had a ton of spells, but only maybe 1 spell of each level was Divination.Why spec in Divination? Just use the C.Champ variant. :smallwink:

monty
2008-09-18, 03:28 PM
Why spec in Divination? Just use the C.Champ variant. :smallwink:

One prohibited school.

On the other hand, Domain specialist with the CChamp variant gets the best of both worlds (...yeah, that's...not broken at all...right?).

RTGoodman
2008-09-18, 03:34 PM
One prohibited school.

Yep. And this character was either before CMage CChamp came out or before I actually looked through it too well.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-18, 03:36 PM
Yep. And this character was either before CMage came out or before I actually looked through it too well.C.Champ, not Mage. You trade your 5th-level feat for the ability to spontaneously cast any Divination spell. From any list. Anywhere.

RTGoodman
2008-09-18, 03:42 PM
C.Champ, not Mage. You trade your 5th-level feat for the ability to spontaneously cast any Divination spell. From any list. Anywhere.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Just wrote the wrong thing. Either way, if something was before Complete Mage, it was definitely before Complete Champion, too. :smalltongue:

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 03:47 PM
What do you think your specialist and barred schools will end up being?

sorry that i poofed. i was going to specialize in evocation, but changed it to necromancy. i seemed to prefer spells that drain ability scores and hit points. i think i'm going to barr conjuration and transmutation.

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 03:48 PM
If you don't like giving up schools, but want extra spells, you might want to consider the Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) variant. You don't give up any schools, but you have to fill your extra slots with very specific spells.

If it's not in any of the 3.5 core books, no dice.
Interesting idea though, I'm just thankful that I'll be able to play a decent wizard. I'm liking the way she's turning out right now. :)

Morty
2008-09-18, 03:48 PM
People coming in telling why she Shouldn't Do That Because TLN Said So in 3... 2... 1...

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-18, 03:51 PM
0.
Go here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18500). Never bar Trans or Conj, let alone both. Conj is better blasting than Evoc, and both have the most and best spells of any school.

Morty
2008-09-18, 03:52 PM
Took about 3 minutes, just as predicted.

Frosty
2008-09-18, 03:59 PM
Banning *one* of those schools is ok, but banning both Trans and Conj? That's like...asking for it. Do you not want spells like Teleport or Fly or buffing?

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 04:02 PM
Took about 3 minutes, just as predicted.

*Harharhar*
I was actually reading that link pretty informative, thanks for that.

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 04:04 PM
Banning *one* of those schools is ok, but banning both Trans and Conj? That's like...asking for it. Do you not want spells like Teleport or Fly or buffing?

See I'm not so sure. Like I said, first time playing a wizard. Teleport I guess would be pretty nifty. Hmm, flying maybe. I would like to keep the specialty in necromancy. I'm open to ideas. I like flipping through the spells chapter.

Frosty
2008-09-18, 04:11 PM
Specializing in Necromancy is a fine idea (although it doesn't really make you better at it. You just have more Necromancy spells), but I'd suggest banning Enchantment over Conjuration of Transmutation. Necromancy has a lot of Save or Dies. So does Enchantment. So choose one and get rid of the other. You could also get rid of illusions, but they're too useful in my mind. So you gotta choose between Evocation, Conjuration, Transmutation, and Abjuration. I'd ban Evocation to be honest. You wanted ability damagenot HP damage anyways.

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 04:12 PM
I suppose dropping enchantment would be all right. Not to interested in charming people. Keep conjuration and barr transmutation and enchantment. Sounds a little bit better, I think.

Keld Denar
2008-09-18, 04:23 PM
Honestly, I'd rather bar evocation over transmutation. With the exception of about 3 spells, there is nothing evocation does that conjouration doesn't do, and better. Conjourations tend to not allow SR, one of the biggest cripplers of /blast/ type wizards. Almost all Evocations have SR applicable.

Which leave you losing out on Wall of Force, Contingency, and Force Cage.

Contingency tends to not be allowed in many games, and if it is, its can be replicated by Shadow Evocation. Force Cage has a nearly debilitating material component cost, so unless you are a Shadowcraft Mage, its a tough one to use in every day adventuring. That leaves Wall of Force as the ultimate "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" spell. 1 spell isn't enough to justify keeping a whole school. Transmutation has soooooo many more useful spells.

Actually, if you have a cleric or bard in your party, I'd drop Abjuration. MOST of the spells from that school also appear on other casters class lists, and the few that aren't aren't good enough to justify keeping the whole school. Illusion has more protective spells than abjuration, so unless you are planning on getting into Initiate of the 7fold Veils, its a decent choice for dropping.

Frosty
2008-09-18, 04:27 PM
well, let us know how it goes. Missing out on so many useful buffs will be wierd, but if you use the right Illusion spells you should be ok.

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 04:33 PM
Honestly, I'd rather bar evocation over transmutation. With the exception of about 3 spells, there is nothing evocation does that conjouration doesn't do, and better. Conjourations tend to not allow SR, one of the biggest cripplers of /blast/ type wizards. Almost all Evocations have SR applicable.

Which leave you losing out on Wall of Force, Contingency, and Force Cage.

Contingency tends to not be allowed in many games, and if it is, its can be replicated by Shadow Evocation. Force Cage has a nearly debilitating material component cost, so unless you are a Shadowcraft Mage, its a tough one to use in every day adventuring. That leaves Wall of Force as the ultimate "YOU SHALL NOT PASS" spell. 1 spell isn't enough to justify keeping a whole school. Transmutation has soooooo many more useful spells.

Actually, if you have a cleric or bard in your party, I'd drop Abjuration. MOST of the spells from that school also appear on other casters class lists, and the few that aren't aren't good enough to justify keeping the whole school. Illusion has more protective spells than abjuration, so unless you are planning on getting into Initiate of the 7fold Veils, its a decent choice for dropping.

Our cleric isn't very smart. Neither is our paladin. So, I suppose I'm trying to compensate.

Mushroom Ninja
2008-09-18, 04:44 PM
Also, the only good spells in Evocation can be replicated in Illusion with Shadow Evocation.

Gorbash
2008-09-18, 05:49 PM
i think i'm going to barr conjuration and transmutation.

I think my heart stopped for a moment there. Wizard without conjuration and transmutation isn't a wizard. It's like playing a rogue who doesn't sneak attacks. Monk who is useful. Dwarf without a beard.



Our cleric isn't very smart. Neither is our paladin. So, I suppose I'm trying to compensate.

Well your paladin is playing a paladin, that pretty much says it all. And you're definitely not compensating if you ban conj and trans. Or transmutation in any case. You're best off without evocation and say... enchantment or necormancy.

Chronos
2008-09-18, 06:04 PM
On the other hand, Domain specialist with the CChamp variant gets the best of both worlds (...yeah, that's...not broken at all...right?).If you really want to break it, you can then take the elf racial substitution levels for a generalist wizard.

And short of Shadowcraft Gnome, you'll never be able to replicate Telekinetic Sphere, which is a fun spell to have. Again, though, it's not enough to redeem the entire rest of the school.

EDIT:

It's like playing a rogue who doesn't sneak attacks.No, playing a rogue who doesn't sneak attack is like playing a wizard without a familiar: Sure, it's fun, but you can afford to give it up. Playing a wizard without transmutation or conjuration is like playing a rogue without Hide, Move Silently, Bluff, Sleight of Hand, or Disable Device.

Frosty
2008-09-18, 06:07 PM
Our cleric isn't very smart. Neither is our paladin. So, I suppose I'm trying to compensate.

The most important thing to remember is to HAVE FUN ^_^

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 06:27 PM
I think my heart stopped for a moment there. Wizard without conjuration and transmutation isn't a wizard. It's like playing a rogue who doesn't sneak attacks. Monk who is useful. Dwarf without a beard.

I'm pretty sure I made my mind up. I'm keeping conjuration. Pretty sure that I'm going to give up enchantment. I'm still kind of up in the air about transmutation.

Epinephrine
2008-09-18, 07:28 PM
It's like playing a rogue who doesn't sneak attacks.

Nothing wrong with that. I'm playing one now :P

Frosty
2008-09-18, 07:32 PM
Nothing wrong with that. I'm playing one now :P

Me too. Except others call my Rogue w/o Sneak Attack a "Beguiler" instead of a "Rogue."

Proven_Paradox
2008-09-18, 08:05 PM
Me too. Except others call my Rogue w/o Sneak Attack a "Beguiler" instead of a "Rogue."

As the DM of that game, I'll mention that Beguiler does that quite well. But Beguiler is really more than just rogue without sneak attack...

Anyway, I will join the voices crying out against barring transmutation. There are so many spells there that a wizard is expected to have--Fly, Haste, Slow, and so on, just to name a few. Is there something in Evocation that you really want to keep? For a necromancer, I'd definitely suggest getting rid of Evocation; the two step on each other a bit.

Your character of course, so do what you want to do, but there'll likely be times where you'll find yourself thinking "man, I wish I could cast Fly."

Frosty
2008-09-18, 08:17 PM
As the DM of that game, I'll mention that Beguiler does that quite well. But Beguiler is really more than just rogue without sneak attack...

Anyway, I will join the voices crying out against barring transmutation. There are so many spells there that a wizard is expected to have--Fly, Haste, Slow, and so on, just to name a few. Is there something in Evocation that you really want to keep? For a necromancer, I'd definitely suggest getting rid of Evocation; the two step on each other a bit.

Your character of course, so do what you want to do, but there'll likely be times where you'll find yourself thinking "man, I wish I could cast Fly."

Well, you're right of course there's more. I trade 10d6 Sneak Attack for Full casting.

monty
2008-09-18, 09:06 PM
Drop Evocation, definitely. It doesn't really fit the flavor of a Necromancer, and you aren't losing much.

knownaspirate
2008-09-18, 09:16 PM
Drop Evocation, definitely. It doesn't really fit the flavor of a Necromancer, and you aren't losing much.

I think I will drop it, everyone makes a really good case. =) I'm so glad I asked! The last campaign I was in, our sorcerer was pretty much useless at higher levels (was a fireball dispenser). And due to him annoying the hell out of our DM all of our encounters, NPC and such had insane reflex saves. So. . . I'm going to take everyone's advice. We play tomorrow, I'm really excited!

Frosty
2008-09-18, 11:25 PM
Please tel us how the campaign goes ok?

BobVosh
2008-09-19, 02:52 AM
I still can't wait to see what would happen when someone comes on here saying they want to go Focused Specialist: Evocation, giving up transmutation, conjuration, and illusion.

Gorbash
2008-09-19, 02:58 AM
Chuck Norris would die.

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-19, 02:58 AM
I'll take a guess about what will happen: :smalleek: Why would you want that sort of build? You may as well use a Warmage if you're going to do that!

(Being serious, how well would that build work compared to other classes?)

Eldariel
2008-09-19, 08:16 AM
I still can't wait to see what would happen when someone comes on here saying they want to go Focused Specialist: Evocation, giving up transmutation, conjuration, and illusion.

Focused Specialist implies splatbooks are in play, so Evoker isn't actually that bad. Now, if someone expressed the desire to play a Focused Abjurer banning the same schools (for the record, Abjuration has Dispel Magic, Maw of Chaos and that's about it)...

T.Titan
2008-09-19, 09:14 AM
Second paragraph: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#schoolSpecialization


A specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school.

FMArthur
2008-09-19, 09:32 AM
Huh. I just had to buy a new PHB because I realized that mine was different; I didn't see school specialization or Wizard Bonus Feats in my old one... when did that update happen?

Tempest Fennac
2008-09-19, 09:34 AM
I thought those were standard issue 3rd Edition features (the feats should be on the Wizard's table).

FMArthur
2008-09-19, 08:15 PM
I thought those were standard issue 3rd Edition features (the feats should be on the Wizard's table).

Well, they weren't. I don't have exact info anymore, since it's been discarded, but those two things were specifically missing. I wasn't looking in the wrong place or anything; they simply were not there. Wizard's class feature list was blank except for first level, and the school spec. sidebar was not found. I have no idea what other discrepencies there were, but those were the ones I noticed after hearing people talk about Wizard Bonus Feats and seeing them present in a friend's book.

Teron
2008-09-19, 08:37 PM
If you don't like giving up schools, but want extra spells, you might want to consider the Domain Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizardVariantDomainWiz ard) variant. You don't give up any schools, but you have to fill your extra slots with very specific spells.
What the... am I reading it wrong, or is there no downside whatsoever to that variant? Well, besides reminding you that you could have been CoDzilla, I guess.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-19, 08:40 PM
What the... am I reading it wrong, or is there no downside whatsoever to that variant? Well, besides reminding you that you could have been CoDzilla, I guess.No downside v. a Generalist, but it is often worse than being a Specialist.

Frosty
2008-09-19, 09:44 PM
What the... am I reading it wrong, or is there no downside whatsoever to that variant? Well, besides reminding you that you could have been CoDzilla, I guess.

There is no downside whatsover. If you choose the right domains, the spell will almost always be useful. Plus, you can always take Spontaneous Divination, so even the useless spells can be spontaneously lost for a nice divination spell.

Waspinator
2008-09-20, 02:42 AM
If I was going to play an Evoker, I'd just play a Kineticist Psion. Does the same thing better and can be refluffed to basically the same character concepts.

Eldariel
2008-09-20, 04:35 AM
Well, they weren't. I don't have exact info anymore, since it's been discarded, but those two things were specifically missing. I wasn't looking in the wrong place or anything; they simply were not there. Wizard's class feature list was blank except for first level, and the school spec. sidebar was not found. I have no idea what other discrepencies there were, but those were the ones I noticed after hearing people talk about Wizard Bonus Feats and seeing them present in a friend's book.

I had one where the Wizard Class Feature-list was blank too - the Bonus Feats were in the text though. And specialization was at the end of some illogical page, but it was there. You sure you've got 3.5?

BobVosh
2008-09-20, 04:45 AM
Well, they weren't. I don't have exact info anymore, since it's been discarded, but those two things were specifically missing. I wasn't looking in the wrong place or anything; they simply were not there. Wizard's class feature list was blank except for first level, and the school spec. sidebar was not found. I have no idea what other discrepencies there were, but those were the ones I noticed after hearing people talk about Wizard Bonus Feats and seeing them present in a friend's book.

Sounds like you have the first printing of the 3.5 book. Lots of em were messed up. It is more like 3.5.2 that you need :P