Gender stereotypes and Vaarsuvius

[Cestrian]

I was thinking a bit about this and while I know it'll probably always be ambiguous, I really do want V to end up being female. Because she would be such a non stereotypical female character; her main traits would be arrogance, wordiness, esteeming intelligence above all else, pursuing power, and being antisocial. She would be happily married and wouldn't be used for relationship drama or be motivated by her relationships with men (V’s most important relationship is with Haley). She would be totally unconcerned with looks and personal feelings and would be the group’s big gun rather than it’s moral centre. In short she would be the complete opposite of the typical damsel in distress character and yet not a stereotypical action girl type either.

And I kind of think Order of the Stick could use another kick ass female character. I mean I like Haley and Celia and Sabine and thought Miko's arc was well executed but well Haley's main arc was about getting the courage to ask out Elan, Celia is very much a squeamish moral type and both of them, right now, have the main motivation of reuniting with their boyfriends. Sabine is a character pretty much defined by her sex drive and Therkla's relationship with Elan overshadowed the rest of her life to the degree that she was happy to die rather than not be with him.

There is nothing at all wrong with any of that, and they all have things going for them beyond their relationships with men, but it would be nice to have another female character (like Miko) whose story was completely unrelated to romantic relationships. Which is why I would prefer it if V was female.

[snowbard55]

Serious:
I completley agree Cestrian. It would be nice to have V be a girl that "breaks the mold"

Funny:
But all elves are pretty much girls anyway. :smallbiggrin:

[Kaytara]

The only problem I see with what you said is that, as far as I know, Vaarsuvius isn't going to 'end up' as anything, since Rich has said he will never reveal V's gender.

But yeah. I think V is male based pretty much on those stereotypically male qualities you listed, so it would have been interesting if V were to be revealed as female.

Still, it's easier to just accept that V's personality isn't tied to his/her sexual identity in any way, and that gender stereotypes are far less pronounced with elves.

[Pronounceable]

V was male from day one. Or so I thought. I didn't even think V can be female till I started checking the forums. He's always been, and will be, male in my eyes.

That said, the idea is certainly solid and I'd like to see that happening. Alas, V'll be stuck as a hermaphrodite for the rest of our lives.

[Corp]

V was male from day one. Or so I thought. I didn't even think V can be female till I started checking the forums. He's always been, and will be, male in my eyes.

That said, the idea is certainly solid and I'd like to see that happening. Alas, V'll be stuck as a hermaphrodite for the rest of our lives.

Oddly enough I always thought of V as female until I visited the boards. :p

But yeah don't think Rich will ever tell us V's true gender. I'm sure we'll see her mate but it'll look just like him.

[darkriku2000]

It would seem appropriate, considering that Haley wouldn't want a guy constantly rooming with her (unless it was elan)

[Zolem]

It would seem appropriate, considering that Haley wouldn't want a guy constantly rooming with her (unless it was elan)

That's what made my mind click "Oh, so V's a girl" 100% was the first inn scene where they split up into rooms by gender. Before then I wasn't sure. Then I saw the forums.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Congratulations, Cestrian, on bringing up this subject in, as far as I know, a mostly original fashion. You also make very good points, and I'm almost tempted to agree, though I still can't really see V as anything but male personally. It's just the way he's drawn (and guessing the author's original intent), not any of the gender roles you mentioned.

[Shadic]

Also, Vaarsuvious was part of the "Charlies Angels" joke in OotS 239. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0239.html)

[Kaytara]

Maybe we should NOT let this derail into another listing of arguments? The topic of the OP was, on a more abstract level, a discussion of what Vaarsuvius could add to the value of the story by being of a certain gender. Just because it's not as easy to come up with things to say about that doesn't mean we should go over why Haley would want to room with Vaarsuvius for the zillionth time.

Now that I think of it, it'd be interesting to see what the ratio is on the whole gender debate. Is V truly so perfectly androgynous that the result percentages of a hypothetical poll would be just about 50/50? Or not?

[Nerdanel]

It would seem appropriate, considering that Haley wouldn't want a guy constantly rooming with her (unless it was elan)

Actually, that's why I think Vaarsuvius is a gay man...

[Lissou]

Although I do think about V as a male (let's not turn this into a male vs female thread though), I think I can see your point.

I have to say, though, that Lien and Tsukiko, two character who seem gradually more important, have no "relationship-themed" stories.

And as interesting as it could be to have a female be such as you described, think about it: if V is male, we have a male who's not treating women as objects, who's not trying to get any in his bed, who's not afraid or ashamed of passing for a woman regularly, who doesn't care about what people think of him or his sexual orientation, who isn't all "muscles" without being a nerdy unsucessful nerd (he's married), in other words, a male V breaks stereotypes too.

I mean, being arrogant, wordy and esteeming intelligence are, as far as I know, as female as they are male. Actually, I think you'd find more females esteeming intelligence more than strength, because you'll find more females who'll have had to rely on intelligence rather than strength.

So, V breaks stereotype genders, be it by being a female, a male, or indeed, both/neither.

[Linkavitch]

I read through the entire comic without ever reading the forums, so through the whole comic, whenever they said, like, 'that elf girl' or something, I always thought they meant Haley(not because I thought she was an elf, but because I thought they thought she was an elf.) So I had no inkling that V could could of been a girl until comic #572 or so, which was when I started reading.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Also, Vaarsuvious was part of the "Charlies Angels" joke in OotS 239. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0239.html)

So was Roy. Admittedly without the trouser titan in presence...

[dps]

Because she would be such a non stereotypical female character; her main traits would be arrogance,


Eh, vanity is a pretty stereotypical female trait.

[David Argall]

When I first read the strip, I was aware of an uncertainity about V. He didn't seem female, and she seemed wrong as male. I can't recall how long it was before I noticed this had become deliberate.

[Dire Ferret]

And as interesting as it could be to have a female be such as you described, think about it: if V is male, we have a male who's not treating women as objects, who's not trying to get any in his bed, who's not afraid or ashamed of passing for a woman regularly, who doesn't care about what people think of him or his sexual orientation, who isn't all "muscles" without being a nerdy unsucessful nerd (he's married), in other words, a male V breaks stereotypes too.

As far as characters go though, these stereotypes are constantly broken, it isn't uncommon for male characters to have no romantic or sexual interests.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Eh, vanity is a pretty stereotypical female trait.But vanity is specifically being arrogant and overly concerned with one's looks. As we can see by Darth Vaarsuvius's most recent appearances, shkle is clearly not.

[keeperoflore]

V was male from day one. Or so I thought. I didn't even think V can be female till I started checking the forums. He's always been, and will be, male in my eyes.

That said, the idea is certainly solid and I'd like to see that happening. Alas, V'll be stuck as a hermaphrodite for the rest of our lives.

this and only this, if V is reviled to be a female at any point in time(which from what i can gather will not happen) then ive looked up to the wrong person. not being sexist just saying im a male, and look up to males like V with high respect.

V being female just dosent sit well with me, though i do see were your coming from with this comic needs more female figures in it.

[tanonx]

So, V breaks stereotype genders, be it by being a female, a male, or indeed, both/neither.

So V breaks human stereotypes. Which makes sense. Cause V is an Elf.

[Kaytara]

So V breaks human stereotypes. Which makes sense. Cause V is an Elf.

Indeed. It's likely elves - or maybe the intellectual high elves, at least - don't care about gender about 99% of their time, with the 1% being finding a mate and getting a family. Therefore, in everyday relations gender plays a less important role than eye colour and nose shape. It's just another physical trait.

[Spiky]

Actually, that's why I think Vaarsuvius is a gay man...

Actually, the one thing we do KNOW, is that V is not a man.

Elf.