which outer plane?

[GSFB]

Where will Therkla go next?

In her final moments, she displayed what, in my opinion, is the epitome of LAWFUL GOOD behavior. She won't murder anyone. She won't betray her leader. She wants everyone to get along. She tries to put an end to pointless feuding and scheming. She risks everything for love.

Granted, this was only the last five minutes of her life, but it is big.

Any chance she ends up somewhere near Roy?

And what might THAT lead to?

Just wondering...

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Any chance she ends up somewhere near Roy?You idiot. We can't have sane theories on here. If it's not claiming Therkala is actually the reincarnation of Miko, sent back in time and the love child of an Aasamir Haley and Thog, it's not wanted.

In all seriousness, that makes sense, and would give us a chance for Roy to interact with someone sane.

[Theodoriph]

That wasn't lawful good behaviour at the end. It seemed like fairly neutral behavior.


A lawful good person would betray their leader if their leader was evil. If you think otherwise, you have some serious misconceptions about lawful good. No chance in hell she should end up anywhere near Roy. The best she can hope for is some neutral plane.

[bibliophile]

I have to agree with theo, above. She clearly remains lawful, and her speech near the end, that she doesnt care about "good guys or bad guys" is the epitome of neutral. LN all the way.

[FujinAkari]

I have to agree with theo, above. She clearly remains lawful, and her speech near the end, that she doesnt care about "good guys or bad guys" is the epitome of neutral. LN all the way.

I actually interpreted that to be that she didn't care about heroes or villians. I personally think she remained evil rather than shifting to neutral... she only wanted what she wanted and could care less about anyone else, which is a fairly evil mindset.

[Ramien]

I actually interpreted that to be that she didn't care about heroes or villians. I personally think she remained evil rather than shifting to neutral... she only wanted what she wanted and could care less about anyone else, which is a fairly evil mindset.

I'd call her neutral, though... considering one of her goals was to not see anyone get hurt.

[Zolem]

I'd call her neutral, though... considering one of her goals was to not see anyone get hurt.

Not wanting anyone to get hurt over what she saw as pointless fighting for meaningless titles and pointless loss of life strikes me as fairly Neutral, Lawful Neutral in a stretch, or even Neutral Good if you want to push it. But I don't see it as LG.

[Theodoriph]

I actually interpreted that to be that she didn't care about heroes or villians. I personally think she remained evil rather than shifting to neutral... she only wanted what she wanted and could care less about anyone else, which is a fairly evil mindset.

I disagree with your statement that Therkla didn't care about anyone else. It's quite obvious she cared about, at the very least, Elan and Kubota.

Everybody cares about someone or something, regardless of whether they're good, or evil (unless you have a DM who is a fan of one-dimensional characters).


What Therkla didn't care about...was their petty fight about a city that's for all intents and purposes, destroyed.

[MReav]

I'd call her neutral, though... considering one of her goals was to not see anyone get hurt.

Not to see anyone she cared about hurt. She killed 2 people the previous comic.

[Forealms]

While she may have killed two people, they were actively aggressive against her wishes. Also, she spared the two guards that held her on the island rather than killing them.

[FujinAkari]

I disagree with your statement that Therkla didn't care about anyone else. It's quite obvious she cared about, at the very least, Elan and Kubota.

Which would be why I said she only cared about what she wanted. She wasn't interested in justice, or anyone's right to live (unless she wants to live with them) or even her own existence. When she couldn't have it her way, she simply didn't want to have it.

I call that Evil, I can see an argument for Neutral based ONLY on the past few strips, but I don't see enough of a shift from her callously killing the valedictorian ninja to her callously killing disarmed samurai to accept an actual alignment shift... she'd have to have a major character alteration to shift alignment that abruptly... and I just don't see it.

[Theodoriph]

Which would be why I said she only cared about what she wanted. She wasn't interested in justice, or anyone's right to live (unless she wants to live with them) or even her own existence. When she couldn't have it her way, she simply didn't want to have it.

I call that Evil, I can see an argument for Neutral based ONLY on the past few strips, but I don't see enough of a shift from her callously killing the valedictorian ninja to her callously killing disarmed samurai to accept an actual alignment shift... she'd have to have a major character alteration to shift alignment that abruptly... and I just don't see it.


Lawful Good people in D&D campaigns also only care about what they want, which is to uphold the law, good, protect those in need etc. They could care less about creatures that get in the way of what they want (e.g the monsters they kill to accomplish their goals). And yet, that doesn't make them evil.

Wanting what you want is not inherently evil. Not caring about people is not inherently evil either.

Was Therkla forsaking her evil master, doing a few acts of good on the way to rescuing Elan and the Katos enough to shift her alignment?


It's quite possible. It's also quite possible it wasn't enough. It depends on how evil she was and whether deathbed changes of heart count for as much in the Giant's world as some religions believe they do in our own. :smallsmile:

I prefer to believe she's residing in some Neutral afterlife. I think it was enough to change her alignment, but barring word of god, we'll never know.



P.S. Killing the ninja valedictorian likely wasn't an evil act. If the school encourages the killing of fellow students, it's a good bet most of the students there are evil inclined. The ninja valedictorian was likely an evil creature and would have gone on to kill many people and so, removing her from the world may have counted as a positive to her alignment. Some adventurer was bound to do it eventually :smallsmile: Of course she probably killed others who didn't deserve to be killed. But in this particular case...well...it's just a thought.

[chiasaur11]

Hey, Banjo is a god...
What would a Banjo run afterlife be like?

[Castamir]

A lawful person would not betray his/her employeer -- just what Therkla refrained from doing. I can't spot any single non-lawful behaviour.

Going all-out towards "let's not hurt anyone, make everything nice and fluffy" is what the good alignment is about.

It's possible she shifted into alignment other than LG, but LG is perfectly possible. She went through a sudden alignment shift, so jumping from NE or LE she had before straight to NG or LG looks ok.

Heck, even with a nazi game master who allowed only single-step align shifts I managed to went from NG to my signature alignment (CE) in less than 10 sessions. And each of the steps required an outstanding deed :p

[David Argall]

Our base choice is LE. That is what she spent her whole life as. Her "sins" with Elan move her away from that, but not very far, and likely not even out of LE. Put her at the intersection of LE, LN, and NN.

[Rad]

Our base choice is LE. That is what she spent her whole life as. Her "sins" with Elan move her away from that, but not very far, and likely not even out of LE. Put her at the intersection of LE, LN, and NN.

Agreed; it's pretty much the same argument we had may times: a couple acts of opposing alignment do not make you shift unless they represent your new mindset. Therkla was moved by her own passions and wishes all the way.
Her loyalty to Kubota seems more based on the fact that he gave her a place and somehow a kind of personal relationship rather than some sense of duty, of which we see a definite lack. Her loyalty is based upon her feelings for Kubota alone and that's not enough for me to call her lawful.

I stand in the NE camp. Ther were signs that mkight have lead to a shift, but it was still a long way.
NE people have feelings too.
As for lawfulness, compare to Redcloak. Not the same thing.
And evil people can be on the good guys side if they have some reason. See Belkar for istance.