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Flashlight
2008-09-19, 08:00 AM
Situation: My character needs a spellbook, filled with the most basic spells. He will not be able to cast highter than 2nd level spells, and I can add the rest myself. How much would a spellbook with say... 15 lv.1 spells and 10 lv.2 spells cost? A formula for caculating this would be appreciated, too.
Thanks.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-19, 08:14 AM
In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level x 50 gp.

This seems to be the fairest way to calculate it. Each spell level costs 50 gp. Your example has 15+10x2 or 35 spell levels, worth 1,750 gp. The book costs 15 gp. (More if you use the detailed spellbook options from Complete Arcane.)

Edit: Man, that is some wonky rules in the SRD/PHB. Actually, 1st-level spell scrolls cost 25 gp (2nd-level are 150 gp or more), so you'll want to buy all your 1st-level spells as scrolls and save, in this case, 15x25 or 375 gp, paying a total of 1,375 gp.

Edit again: Except, of course, spells like identify, with a material component. An identify scroll costs 125 gp, so you'll want to copy that one... complex, isn't it?

Smeggedoff
2008-09-19, 08:20 AM
captured spellbooks can be sold for a gp amount equal to one-half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within
a spellbook entirely filled with spells is worth 5000gp
:smallsmile:

PHB page 179 near the bottom

course this is for selling, and not buying so you may need to apply a market price modifier to that (double it)

steventirey1985
2008-09-19, 08:50 AM
Scribing a spell into a spellbook costs 100gp per level of the spell. You want to scribe 15 1st levels spells (15 total levels) + 10 2nd level spells (20 levels total) for a total of 35 spell levels.

So scribing those spells into a spellbook would cost 3,500 gp (not counting anything you need to spend to get access to those spells, such as purchasing scrolls, paying another wizard for access to his spellbook, etc.)

Edit: Oh, you wanted to BUY it, not make it. Didn't catch that part. The cost is still the same, though.

erikun
2008-09-19, 08:51 AM
It costs 100 gp to write one page of spells; each spell takes 1 page per spell level to enter (1 page for cantrips). For a 100 page book, it would cost 10,000 gp to completely fill it out. This is where Smeggedoff is getting the 5,000 gp selling price (half the price to write it).

Tsotha-lanti is thinking about scrolls, not spells in a spellbook. Writing a scroll costs [spell level * caster level needed * 25] gp, so that's 25 gp for a level 1 spell and 150 gp (2*3*25) for a level 2 spell. Also, you can't prepare a spell from a scroll anyways.

A spellbook for 15 lv.1 spells and 10 lv.2 spells would take up (15*1 + 10*2) 35 pages, and cost 3,500 gp to make. This assumes no cantrips in the book. That would probably be 3,500 gp selling to the PC, or 1,750 gp if the PC is trying to sell it to a shop owner.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-19, 08:57 AM
Oh, dur, I forgot the cost of actually writing them.

Okay, so it's 150 gp per level if you're copying from someone else's book. Scrolls are still 25 gp cheaper for first-level spells - total of 125 gp. I'm not talking about preparing anything from a scroll - I'm talking about how it's cheaper to buy a scroll and copy that into your spellbook than it is to pay someone to let you copy the spell, when it comes to 1st-level spells.

So that's a total of 35x150 or 5,250 gp, plus 15 gp for the empty spellbook

Of course, if you can actually find a spellbook already filled with the exact 25 spells you want (yeah, fat chance), you might only pay the 3,500 gp. Buying an empty spellbook and copying the spells you want from, say, "reference spellbooks" at a wizards' guild (or something like that) would be 5,265 gp.

Gorbash
2008-09-19, 08:58 AM
Actually, I believe it's been revised that scribing costs of a spell are 50x spell lvl. PHB says it's 100gp, Boccob's Blessed Book says it's 25gp, but it's actually 50 per spell lvl.

steventirey1985
2008-09-19, 09:06 AM
The SRD and the FAQ both say 100gp per page. I think there is a more current version of the FAQ than the one I have (May 07) so it may have changed.

Edit: Just checked the most current version of the FAQ, and it's still 100gp per page.

Epinephrine
2008-09-19, 09:11 AM
I'd rule that the cost of a RANDOM spell book, or one filled with pretty standard spells, is 100gp per page. That's someone selling a spellbook they found, or have already written up for sale.

If you want to select the spells, essentially a custom order, I'd charge 100 gp per page, plus the cost of getting spells from other wizard's spellbooks (50gpxspell level, or 50gp per page extra). Obviously, rare spells might cost more or be unavailable.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-19, 09:15 AM
Actually, I believe it's been revised that scribing costs of a spell are 50x spell lvl. PHB says it's 100gp, Boccob's Blessed Book says it's 25gp, but it's actually 50 per spell lvl.

SRD says...

"In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level x 50 gp."

"Materials and Costs: Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page."

1 page per level, so that's 150 gp per level when copying from another wizard's spellbook, unless they've got a reason not to charge you.

Gorbash
2008-09-19, 09:22 AM
Ah, then I must have confused it with copying from another spellbook. My bad. Move along, nothing to see here. :smalltongue:

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-19, 09:25 AM
Ah, then I must have confused it with copying from another spellbook. My bad. Move along, nothing to see here. :smalltongue:

Just like I initially did...

I blame the fact we've never had anyone play a wizard long enough to actually get to copy spells.

erikun
2008-09-19, 09:28 AM
Also,

"Wizards friendly to one another often trade access to equal-level spells from each other's spellbooks at no cost."


I guess it depends on where he got the spellbook. If it is something from a mentor, then it would probably be only 100 gp per page. If he's been living on the streets for the last 3 levels without wizardly "contacts", it's probably closer to 150 gp per page.

Also, if this is the wizard's spellbook that he's had since level 1, then adding spells at level 1 (and spells every level up) doesn't cost any money.


Quick calculations:
- A wizard starts with 3 + Int mod level 1 spells in their spellbook. Assuming 18 Int, that's 7 spells.
- A wizard writes 2 spells each level into their spellbook, at no cost. Assuming a 3rd level wizard, that would be another 2 level 1 spells, and 2 level 2 spells.

This would mean 9 level 1 spells, and 2 level 2 spells, don't cost you anything to write down. That's 13 pages, meaning the other 22 pages still need to be paid for. 22*100 = 2,200 gp, or 22*150 = 3,300 gp, depending on where you got the spells.


Of course, if you're just buying a random spellbook with those 25 assorted spells, then it would come out to 3,500 gp.

nagora
2008-09-19, 09:31 AM
It costs 100 gp to write one page of spells; each spell takes 1 page per spell level to enter (1 page for cantrips). For a 100 page book, it would cost 10,000 gp to completely fill it out. This is where Smeggedoff is getting the 5,000 gp selling price (half the price to write it).

Selling for half the price it cost you to make it?! I know D&D and economics never mix well, but that's a bit nutty, isn't it?

A more reasonable answer is that if it cost 10K to make then the bidding will start at 10K+margin, where margin depends on how well the seller likes you.

Flashlight
2008-09-19, 09:42 AM
Would it be possible to create a new character, write in the backstory that he/she has stolen the spellbook and thus only pay for the material cost? Hell, those spellbooks are really expensive.

Gorbash
2008-09-19, 09:44 AM
Just like I initially did...

I blame the fact we've never had anyone play a wizard long enough to actually get to copy spells.

I actually play one (paperwork is... ungh), although I have BBB, so don't bother much with scribing costs...

FMArthur
2008-09-19, 09:45 AM
And always remember that if you prepare those spells directly from a spellbook not written by you, you initially need to make a DC 20 + Spell Level Spellcraft check to decipher the wizard's unintelligable writing, then DC 15 + Spell Level to prepare it. You only need to decipher once, but the DC 15 + Spell Level check needs to be made on every preparation. Failing either of those means you can't try again for a day (so copy it into your own writing!). :smallconfused:

kamikasei
2008-09-19, 09:45 AM
Would it be possible to create a new character, write in the backstory that he/she has stolen the spellbook and thus only pay for the material cost? Hell, those spellbooks are really expensive.

It would be possible if you can convince a DM of it, but I'd be against it. The cost of filling your spellbook is a lot of what a wizard is supposed to blow WBL on, and circumventing it is no better an idea than giving a first-level fighter a +5 flaming shocking thundering keen frost sword.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-19, 09:52 AM
If you're creating a character above level 1, I'd assume you get those 2 spells/level for free and such, and then pay 100 gp per level for extra spells.


Selling for half the price it cost you to make it?! I know D&D and economics never mix well, but that's a bit nutty, isn't it?

The assumption is that the PCs found the book and are trying to sell it. The default selling price for loot is always 50% of "full" price.

nagora
2008-09-19, 09:57 AM
The assumption is that the PCs found the book and are trying to sell it. The default selling price for loot is always 50% of "full" price.
Sorry, I thought everyone was dealing with the OP's question where he's the buyer.

Mind you, the "50%" rule has it's own problems. Problems the Thieves' Guild will be happy to solve for a cut...

kamikasei
2008-09-19, 10:05 AM
If you're creating a character above level 1, I'd assume you get those 2 spells/level for free and such, and then pay 100 gp per level for extra spells.

This is true; if the OP is just creating a wizard character above first level then a lot of the cost of the spellbook will be subsumed under the class feature. If he needs to buy a full spellbook for some reason, though... (I also wonder, come to think of it, how it is that a multiclass wizard gets his first spellbook and all its free spells.)

So, OP, what exactly is the situation?

Flashlight
2008-09-19, 10:09 AM
And always remember that if you prepare those spells directly from a spellbook not written by you, you initially need to make a DC 20 + Spell Level Spellcraft check to decipher the wizard's unintelligable writing, then DC 15 + Spell Level to prepare it. You only need to decipher once, but the DC 15 + Spell Level check needs to be made on every preparation. Failing either of those means you can't try again for a day (so copy it into your own writing!). :smallconfused:

This isn't much of a problem, my character will have enough time to get familiar with all the spells.

Ok, I actually got 2 situations, both involving the Chameleon PRC. It needs a spellbook to operate it's spells, the description mentiones that many use a stolen spellbook.

Situation 1: Character will get into Chameleon on the next level-up, and will want to get a spellbook as soon as possible. I think I can solve this one with the DM, that's why I wanted to know a formula, which you provided. Thanks

Situation 2: New Character, right now level 7. I'm still making the sheet, and want to equip this one with a spellbook right from the start. Character background will explain how she got the spellbook.

So from what I understood, the cheapest way to get a filled spellbook is from a friendly wizard. That's ok, but I'll now take 5 cantrips 7 level 1 spells and 6 level 2 to save money. 24 pages make for 2.400, right? (I'm so depleted today, math would really kill me :smallsmile: )

Edit: 2415 then. I think that's fair, with only 11.800 wealth total and money to spend on armor, weapons and so on...

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-19, 10:27 AM
Yep, 24 pages is 2,400 gp for the materials, 15 gp for the empty book, and no extra cost if the wizard you're copying from isn't charging you for the privilege of copying.

Chronos
2008-09-19, 03:23 PM
Ok, I actually got 2 situations, both involving the Chameleon PRC. It needs a spellbook to operate it's spells, the description mentiones that many use a stolen spellbook.For a Chameleon specifically, there's another wrinkle. By chance, do you happen to have any "real" spellcasting class? If so, and if you can wait until your second level of Chameleon, you don't have to pay anything at all. Each day, spend your bonus feat on Extra Spell, then write it into your spellbook for free. Once you've got it written down, take a different Extra Spell feat the next day, and so on.

Flashlight
2008-09-19, 03:38 PM
Sorry, I couldn't resist to begin with factotum again :smallbiggrin:

Chronos
2008-09-19, 03:54 PM
OK, that works too, then. Extra Spell just requires caster level 3, and a factotum does have a caster level for its SLAs.

Flashlight
2008-09-19, 04:06 PM
Thanks for the great idea, Chronos.

Graymayre
2008-09-19, 04:09 PM
captured spellbooks can be sold for a gp amount equal to one-half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within
a spellbook entirely filled with spells is worth 5000gp
:smallsmile:


Hi!

Tired of scribing spells all day in that musty tome?

Then come on down to Crazy Graymayre's Spellbook Import Emporium! Due to a misplaced order, I am now over stocked with ancient books of incomprehensible power! And now, I am moving the savings on to you!!!

(Graymayre is not held accountable for any ineffectual or malfunctioning spells.)

Tokiko Mima
2008-09-19, 04:18 PM
If you just had a level of Duskblade when you got to Chameleon 2, is there any cheap way you could temporarily raise it to CL 3? :smallconfused:

Ionizer
2008-09-19, 04:34 PM
If you have an extra feat slot, take Collegiate Wizard as your 1st level feat and you essentially double the number of free spells you get in your spellbook. As an added bonus, you get +2 on Knowledge (arcana) checks. The feat is found in Complete Arcane, somewhere near the back of the book, it's separate from the rest of the feats.

Chronos
2008-09-19, 07:15 PM
If you just had a level of Duskblade when you got to Chameleon 2, is there any cheap way you could temporarily raise it to CL 3?Get your cleric friend to cast Imbue with Spellcasting Ability on you, and then borrow his Bead of Karma. You do have a cleric friend, right?