PDA

View Full Version : [3.5e] Gestalt Factotum Advice



Malicte
2008-09-19, 10:49 AM
So, I'll be starting up a gestalt campaign with a new GM soon, and I know most (Read: All) of the other players are quite new to D&D. Because of that, I'd like to build a character that can, well... do everything, and do it well enough to make sure the rest of them don't die.

I don't really know what anyone else is playing, yet, so nothing there. I do know that pretty much all books would be allowed aside from Dragon Magazines. The campaign is gonna start somewhere between levels 1 and 3, And could in theory go as far as 20, thus I'm trying for a build that can stay effective through the whole range.

As far as races, I'm limited to basically core only.

The plan was to roll a human Factotum.

Human Factotum 20 // ??? 5 / Chameleon 10 / ??? 5

Between Chameleon and Factotum, if I can't tweak myself to do it, it shouldn't be done. I need something for the other 10 levels, though, and that's where I'm drawing a blank. Obviously something with int synergy is nice, But I'm not sure going a caster(Wizard or Archivist) is worth it to only get 10 levels of progression, and I enjoy not having any real MAD.

Thoughts?

Siegel
2008-09-19, 10:51 AM
First Level before Cham. maybe Spellthief. IF you can take some Psyonic Feats maybe take the last 5 levels Ebon Saint. Would give you more options.

Edit : YES they are kinda of my favourit Classes.

Other options would be Swordsage maybe for more melee power.

kamikasei
2008-09-19, 10:57 AM
Other options would be Swordsage maybe for more melee power.

Warblade would be better, for int synergy, higher BAB, HD, etc.

playswithfire
2008-09-19, 10:58 AM
Other options would be Swordsage maybe for more melee power.

If you can take a swordsage version of Carmendine Monk, definitely; otherwise go warblade for INT synergy

Malicte
2008-09-19, 11:07 AM
Yeah, Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genius (Dragon Mag, so I can't use it.) would both help swordsage, and warblade would be a decent choice, but if possible I'd like to try to avoid ToB (unless it's just that much more effective), since I don't really enjoy playing it.

playswithfire
2008-09-19, 11:22 AM
Swashbuckler 3/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Chameleon 10/Whatever(invisible blade?) 5

Just ignore your 7 maneuvers, but take the island of blades stance to help your teammates get flank bonuses, and take the feats shadow blade and carmendine monk/swordsage.

INT to AC in light armor; int and dex to damage with finessed shadow-blade discipline weapons. You'll also pick up Weapon Finesse, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Weapon Focus as bonus feats

Or if you really don't want ToB, go Swashbuckler 5

SoD
2008-09-19, 11:57 AM
Well, it depends on how powerful you want to be, and what your party members are playing. Until we have that information, there's only a certain amount of help we can be. Also: do you have a character concept beyond 'gestalt factotum'?

Stopping people from dying. Cleric (not Clericzilla), or favoured soul, or even healer if you want! Druid's can heal as well. Or, still looking at casters, play as a sorcerer/wizard/warmage/whatever arcane caster (this only works with decent wisdom) shove a few ranks into heal, and eventually grab spontaneous healer.

With people who are new to DnD, it's more likely that they'll be creating something from a character concept rather than a character build, so just work from there.

Siegel
2008-09-19, 12:04 PM
Yeah, Carmendine Monk or Kung Fu Genius (Dragon Mag, so I can't use it.) would both help swordsage, and warblade would be a decent choice, but if possible I'd like to try to avoid ToB (unless it's just that much more effective), since I don't really enjoy playing it.

Yeah sorry, i meant Warblade *stupid me*

Malicte
2008-09-19, 12:21 PM
Well, talking with my other party members, one of them wants to play a healbot sort of cleric//Druid(he wasnt sure), another wanted to play a paladin, we've steered him towards crusader. The fourth wanted to play a bard/sorcerer. (I think the second two are fairly grounded in concept as opposed to build.)

The only major role not covered is skill monkey, and I think with Factotum I'll be more than capable.

Human Paragon 3
2008-09-19, 12:42 PM
The only major role not covered is skill monkey, and I think with Factotum I'll be more than capable.

OK then, take rogue levels until you're ready for chameleon. If you want to be a skill monkey, the extra 2 skill points per level will help, and who couldn't use a little sneak attack damage? If you're going to 20, you could fill the last 5 levels with Exemplar, making you the super-ultimate skill monkey.

Alternately, Human Paragon will give you Adaptive Learning (not that you need it if you go Factotum 20), a bonus feat, and an ability boost for extra INT.

If you're looking for a mele boost instead, go with Warblade or Swashbuckler. Either way, a 1 level dip into rogue (first level) will significantly boost your skill pool and give you a d6 sneak attack. No reason not to do it.

Oh, I just remembered the Feat Rogue that gets fighter feats instead of sneak attack. This might also be a good choice for you and improve your combat skills for the first 4 levels of your career while improving your skills.

Feat Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3 or Rogue 1/Swashbuckler 4 (with daring outlaw) are both good ways to go if you want to combine mele and skills. Both give you great skills and INT to damage. One gives you 2 bonus feats, and the other gives you 3d6 sneak attack.

Eldariel
2008-09-19, 01:19 PM
Factotum//Wizard is really good. A Factotum is already a fine melee'er right out of the box thanks to the ability to add Int to Str-checks (like Trip!) with Brains over Brawn, and Int to attack-rolls with an inspiration point. Wizard adds a whole other dimension and makes Cunning Surge give you some of the most powerful actions in the game (a Wizard's actions, that is - pretty much the most powerful thing in D&D). Also, you'll be totally Int SAD and capable of doing everything. You can block the opponents, prevent their movement and so on. You can hit hard, you can shoot well, you can handle all skills (I really love Cunning Knowledge for handling extra skills), you've got D8 HD, two good saves, medium BAB and really, really solid defenses (as you can add Int to literally everything).

Gray Elf or Human is the way to go - Human would get an extra Font of Inspiration, while a Gray Elf would get the all-important Int-bonus. Both get the same amount of skills (that's why I suggest a Human over a Strongheart Halfling for the feat build - you'll need all the ranks you can get). If you could get flaws, it'd be awesome. But yea, as a Factotum Wizard, there's truly no limit to what you can do. You even learn to heal quite decently on level 5, especially if you have some Wis. So yea, with smart spell selection (focus on spells that can stop hordes of opponent and generally on disabling the opposition with stuff like Color Spray, Sleep, Web, Glitterdust, Solid Fog, etc. - that way your allies can feel useful while not dying). Also, a reach weapon would be good - with Brains over Brawn and some Str, you can do excellent battlefield control with a Guisarme or such. If you can afford Combat Reflexes, you'll be covered.

Person_Man
2008-09-19, 01:51 PM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88633) might help you out.

How broken do you want to be?

With Cunning Surge, a Familiar, an Item Familiar, Imbue Spell, a Spell Storing Weapon, Hustle, Celerity, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting, you could easily get the equivalent of 7 actions in one round.

With just a Factotum 19/Master of Masks 1 and careful Wand selection, you could functionally pull of pretty much any combo that you want. If you add in something like Archivist or Psion on the other side, it just gets plain ridiculous.

Eldariel
2008-09-19, 01:55 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot, Factotum/Artificer could be awesome too. The Artificer is slightly less potent straight-out than a Wizard, but there's something to be said about the free crafting for the team (and most importantly, Artificer is capable of providing his own feats while Wizard takes some globals). Also, Artificer + extra actions = dead things. Lots of dead things (Wandificer can blow things up REALLY well). Also, if you went Warforged, you could gain a Weapon Familiar, pick Obtain Familiar > Improved Familiar for another Combat Familiar, then Item Familiar, then Craft Construct and making a Greater Stone Golem on 12.

sonofzeal
2008-09-19, 02:05 PM
I'd say throw some Marshal or Bard in there; it'll give your teammates some much-needed bonuses.

Human Paragon 3
2008-09-19, 03:05 PM
I would steer clear of wizard/artifcer/archivist/druid as the other side of your gestalt unless you want to outshine your friends and be the best at everything. Stick with what you do best, and you'll be reasonably competent in everything else by default.

Eldariel
2008-09-19, 03:09 PM
I would steer clear of wizard/artifcer/archivist/druid as the other side of your gestalt unless you want to outshine your friends and be the best at everything. Stick with what you do best, and you'll be reasonably competent in everything else by default.

It's all up to him how powerful he plays it though - while you can do nutty stuff with straight casters, you can also choose not to. If there is the danger that the party does need carrying, having the potency to rule the world is probably a good thing to keep around. Besides, if there's a Cleric/Druid in the party, he should be reasonably competent even without much optimization. Also, a party without an arcanist is going to have real trouble against big dumb things that should get Save-or-Sucked into oblivion (Giants, Wurms, most Animals, etc.).

Also, Wizard is really the best class at pretending he's not doing anything even though he's really the reason fights are being won.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-19, 05:31 PM
Artificer/Wizard/Cleric/Bard are the best classes for making the party even better. They buff their allies, make their allies far stronger than they should be, and then win. And the unoptimized peons love it, because they were victorious. :smallwink: