Could someone explain the D&D Neutral afterlife to me?

[Jeivar]

I asked this question in the thread for #593 but I guess it got buried under alignment and trope debates. I'm not terribly familiar with D&D cosmology, so could someone give me a brief description of what a Neutral character can expect?

[Moff Chumley]

Not much, to be honest.

[DraPrime]

If they worshiped some god they go to their god's realm. What happens there varies depending on the god. For the god-less they just sort of hang out around the neutral planes watching. Can't be very exciting.

[charl]

Limbo or Mechanus. That is, endless chaos or extreme bureaucracy. True neutrals don't even have a plane to spend their afterlife in, so I suppose they either don't go anywhere (the atheists of DnD?) or maybe they turn up in Sigil somehow.

[Trizap]

...............maybe TN's can choose which plane they go to?

[Moff Chumley]

...............maybe TN's can choose which plane they go to?

Can't see that one happening.

[charl]

The Wasteland (I think it's called) is a possible alternative for true neutrals.

[Lunaya]

What I'd like to know is what happens after death when you belong to one alignment and you have friends or family that belong to another. Does that mean you'll never see your loved ones again in the afterlife?

[Danukian]

Limbo or Mechanus. That is, endless chaos or extreme bureaucracy. True neutrals don't even have a plane to spend their afterlife in, so I suppose they either don't go anywhere (the atheists of DnD?) or maybe they turn up in Sigil somehow.

The Concordant Opposition is the TN plane

[The Grim Author]

I believe they just wander The Outlands. I mean, it makes sense, that's a TN Outer Plane...

[brilliantlight]

I think Therkla will end in the LN plane called Mechanus which is basically a clockwork plane where the various lands are literally on giant gears.

[chiasaur11]

As I said before:

I'm betting she goes wherever Banjo's afterlife is.

[factotum]

What I'd like to know is what happens after death when you belong to one alignment and you have friends or family that belong to another. Does that mean you'll never see your loved ones again in the afterlife?

Pretty much, yes...and it works that way in OotS, too; remember "O Buddy Roy", where Elan sang that he'd never see Roy in the afterlife because of their differing alignments.

[Tempest Fennac]

Gateways between neighbouring planes exist (eg: you could probably visit the Beastlands from Elysium).

[Matuse]

Well, the good afterlife is a paradise.

The evil afterlife is hell.

The neutral afterlife is ok. It's not great, but it's not terrible.

[Iranon]

D&D hasn't always been consistent though... we've had both aspects of 'reward the good, punish the wicked' and 'everyone gets what befits them'.

For the latter... CNs getting to a constantly shifting plane where they have to dodge horny frogs might get bored anywhere else, extreme LNs finding comfort in the clockwork Nirvana that would seem oppressive to others and Evils accept the initial unpleasantries for the chance to dish ot some hurt themselves later etc.

In either case, the Neutral afterlife for those without extreme leanings towards law or chaos could be unspectacular.

[Ancalagon]

Apparently this works different in the OOTS-World than in D&D (Forgotten Realms).

Since Roy gets told he would have gone to the Lawful Neutral Afterlife if he had left Elan in the hands of the bandits. Therefore, there must at least be a Lawful Neutral afterlife and since we know there's a CG (Belkar mentions Shojo is there) and a LG (we have seen it) it seems safe to assume every alignment has a fitting afterlife.

The D&D-one doesn't work anyway since you usually go to the plane of your patron god. We have not seen any hint so far in OOTS that this is what happens after death.

[vegetalss4]

it is kinda like the martial plane, except theres a giant magic-supressing mountain in the middle

[Teron]

Apparently this works different in the OOTS-World than in D&D (Forgotten Realms).

Since Roy gets told he would have gone to the Lawful Neutral Afterlife if he had left Elan in the hands of the bandits. Therefore, there must at least be a Lawful Neutral afterlife and since we know there's a CG (Belkar mentions Shojo is there) and a LG (we have seen it) it seems safe to assume every alignment has a fitting afterlife.

The D&D-one doesn't work anyway since you usually go to the plane of your patron god. We have not seen any hint so far in OOTS that this is what happens after death.
The default assumption (disregarding campaign settings that say otherwise, like the Forgotten Realms) is that characters without a patron god go to the appropriately aligned plane. As it happens, the comic hasn't shown anyone particularly devoted to one god in whatever their afterlife would be; the characters whose afterlives we know anything about aren't especially religious. While we have seen Azure City soldiers on the mountain, we don't know whether the significantly devout ones were among them, and if so whether they were climbing to the same place on the mountain.

Besides, for all we know, the lawful good gods hang out at the top of the mountain - at least part of the time, assuming they also spend some of their time with their pantheon.

[Gamerlord]

As I said before:

I'm betting she goes wherever Banjo's afterlife is.
That would be.....limbo.

[Kobold-Bard]

If its working on the standard D&D cosmology the True Neutral Plane is The Outlands. It is essentially like the Material Plane except you don't have to worry about eating, dying etc.

Main features are the aforementioned Gigantic Tower of Magic Nullification that even cancels out Divine Ranks when you get within a few miles of its base (now you know where to go when your character gets the urge to commit Deicide).

There are also several Gate-towns each one containing several portals to one of the other Outer Planes, so technically you can get to other Afterlives via the Oulands, but one there the native creatures may not be so pleased with you.

Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlands) (I know I didn't really need to type all that but concentrating on something is helping the demonic hangover I have :smallfrown:)

[charl]

Not to forget that around the peak of said anti-magic mountain there's a huge donut-shaped... thing that houses Sigil on it. That's the city of doors, were the enigmatic Lady of Pain rules. The main setting for Planescape Torment.

[Fitzclowningham]

I'd like to think of reincarnation as an option for TNs. They would keep getting additional tries at life until they found something beyond themselves to care about.

[Graymayre]

If they worshiped some god they go to their god's realm. What happens there varies depending on the god. For the god-less they just sort of hang out around the neutral planes watching. Can't be very exciting.

I recall reading that the godless actually get built into a wall where their souls slowly fade out of existence

[Morty]

I recall reading that the godless actually get built into a wall where their souls slowly fade out of existence

That's the case in Forgotten Realms setting and is by no means D&D standard.

[Flickerdart]

Wait, hang on.

If, after you die, you just go to one of the planes...the only difference is now you're an Outsider? How is that dying at all?

[Warren Dew]

I'd like to think of reincarnation as an option for TNs. They would keep getting additional tries at life until they found something beyond themselves to care about.

What makes you think true neutrals care about themselves?

[Ganurath]

True Neutrals linger on in the Material Plane.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Wait, hang on.

If, after you die, you just go to one of the planes...the only difference is now you're an Outsider? How is that dying at all?No, not quite...

It's a bit confusing, but a soul traveling to an out plane becomes a semi-aware outsider called a Petitioner that, if not recalled by ressurection magic, eventually merges with the spiritual essence of the plane. Said spiritual essence may one day be transformed into a new Outsider, but I don't think they usually keep the same consciousness of the petitioners that made up the bit of the plane they're made out of. Emphasis on think, because I'm not really sure of this.

Devils claim that if you serve them in life, then die and go to hell, you have a chance of being directly promoted into a respectable level of devil-ness. Emphasis on "chance".

[AlexanderRM]

If we make the basic assumptions that A: OOTS is not done by the rules your DM uses, and B: OOTS is set in the world of OOTS (which would make the forums a much better place if everyone would figure them out)...
By the planes listed in the DMs guide, there are three CN planes (Ysgard, Limbo, and Pandemonium), three LN planes (Acheron, Mechanus, and Arcadia), and one TN plane (the Outlands- not counting the ten unaligned planes which aren't outer planes, since I'm pretty sure souls only go to outer planes). As such, a Neutral character without a major Lawful or Chaotic bent has two mildly Lawful planes, two mildly Chaotic planes, and one TN plane to go to.
And to those who think that the Outlands would be kinda boring- I advise you to read the description more carefully, especially Sigil and the random encounters type. Sounds more interesting than the material plane, at least, and I for one would rather go there than to, say, a borderless desert of white dust.

[Tholok Razescar]

The neutral afterlife is like dating a German girl - it's not horrible, but not terribly exciting either.

[Tempest Fennac]

I like that ide a alot, Fitzclowningham. Would reincarnating be an option for other people if they wanted another life, though?

[Ascension]

The neutral afterlife is like dating a German girl - it's not horrible, but not terribly exciting either.

But what if the girl is Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS?

[SPoD]

I think it would be like the Neutral Planet from Futurama.

[Lupy]

I think that the outlands, aside from Sigil, are alot like earth, what with the lack of magic and all...

[Teron]

I think that the outlands, aside from Sigil, are alot like earth, what with the lack of magic and all...
There is magic. It gets restricted as you move closer to the plane's center, but since the outer planes are supposedly infinite, that leaves a lot of unaffected ground, especially past the rough circle of gatetowns.

[hamishspence]

There are implications that plane tends to loop past the towns: travel thousands of miles beyond them, turn back and the towns are only a few miles away.

I'm not sure if native petitioners can get to Sigil from Outlands without magic, I think its an artificial add-on. Die and you go to Outlands, not Sigil: you get to Sigil via portals.

[Inhuman Bot]

Devils claim that if you serve them in life, then die and go to hell, you have a chance of being directly promoted into a respectable level of devil-ness. Emphasis on "chance".

What happens if you don't get that chance, you masy ask.

Well, you get to be a really, really weak devil that's insane and tormented or tormented spirit. That's insane. And realy really, weak.

The devils tend to leave that part out.

[hamishspence]

It said "Neither an evil king nor fanatical cultist looks at a lemure and imagines it to be their most likely form" Also, that in rare cases, an exceptionally evil person might go straight to higher rank, but it is very rare.

Forgotten Realms had devils tempting souls between arrival and being picked up by agents of their deity to go to their afterlife. Again, bargaining for promotion straight to higher rank than lemure is extremely rare, and the best you can usually hope for is early promotion.

[JT Jag]

Didn't V say something when the party was about to be executed by the bandits about his ghost?

[hamishspence]

Ghosts apparently have Unfinished Business, and it generally takes a very strong will to become a ghost.

Dragon Mag Birth of the Dead article went into some detail about why some rose as ghosts, and others as spectres.

[Porthos]

Pretty much, yes...and it works that way in OotS, too; remember "O Buddy Roy", where Elan sang that he'd never see Roy in the afterlife because of their differing alignments.

Why would Elan be correct about such a thing? Since when does he know what happens in the afterlife? :smallconfused:

[Flashlight]

The neutral afterlife is like dating a German girl - it's not horrible, but not terribly exciting either.

Hey! That's not true. German girls are some of the craziest freaks ever. (Chaotic Neutral would fit)

[arguskos]

Hey! That's not true. German girls are some of the craziest freaks ever. (Chaotic Neutral would fit)
Sorry, I've just got to second this one here. :smallcool:

I now return you to your regularly scheduled debates!

-argus

[hamishspence]

well, we've seen speculation from several characters. Belkar's comment on what he expects shojo's afterlife to be "smoking cigars made from poorly worded contracts" is also likely to be a bit off. Still, maybe some things, like CG people go somewhere, LG people go somewhere else, are common knowledge.

[Teron]

Why would Elan be correct about such a thing? Since when does he know what happens in the afterlife? :smallconfused:
Given that some spellcasters can plane shift to the various afterlives on a whim (remember the evil adventuring party?), it wouldn't be surprising if the basic setup is common knowledge.

[Crinos]

There's actually a lot of interesting stuff on the Outlands.

Since its the true neutral plane, creatures from all the other outer planes can be found there.

There's also the Rimali, the paragons of true neutrality, and the gate towns, which are the doorways between the outlands and the rest of the outer planes.

Plus the Outlands is the home to the Lizard folk and Mind Flayer deities.