Optimizing Spirit Shaman

[Atanuero]

I don't think I've ever seen any discussion online about this class at all. IMO it's a fairly good class that doesn't really deal the party's damage but seems to be a more versatile version of a caster-focused druid. I've just started playing a half-orc Spirit Shaman (level 2 right now) and I'm trying to come up with ways to make it better. What doesn't help my goal of versatility is that I'm my party's sole divine caster, which means that they depend on me for heals and sometimes buffs.

Basically my biggest problems are spells (which I can sort of figure out myself) and feats (which I'm drawing a blank on). I thought about getting Zen Archery but then I realized how against my character that would be.

Help? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Pretty much all book published by WotC are fair game. I'm also considering taking Stormlord later. It seems that 9 is the best time to do this, when I just get Spirit Form (which basically makes anything without magic not be able to damage me), but I'm not really experienced with this stuff so I may be wrong.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

The Handbook. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=611506)

[Dode]

The Handbook. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=611506)
Haha I remember adding to that as Sixam.

Anyways Atanuero, I wouldn't take Stormlord until at least level 11 (if at all, the class has a lot of crappy feat prereqs), the Shaman's "Guide Magic" ability it gets at level 10 is possibly the best ability it gets bar none. Oh, using it with the core spells is useless, but what you want to do is have your spirit guide say maintain concentration 24/7 on a Summon Greater Elemental spell (SpC).

As for a low level Shaman, I agree it's definitely tough, considering your incredibly low spell selection (possibly the toughest part of the game). What I did was take the Scribe Scroll feat and made a boatload of scrolls to see me through combats (okay, my DM made an exception to the "you can craft only 1 item a day" and instead capped it at the maximum gold value you can do in crafting per day").

Some other options are Spontaneous Healer (CDiv) if you plan on being the sole healer indefinitely, Metamagic School Focus (Transmutation) (CMage) + Extend Spell if you plan on being a buffer (Shamans' unique ways of prepping spontaneous metamagic synergizes with it well) .

Another nasty combo with Spirit Form not mentioned in the handbook is Mobile Spellcasting (CAdv). Immune to everything non-magic? Take a 5 foot step into a wall and you're immune to everything. Mobile Spellcasting lets you step out, cast a spell, then step back in no problem.

[Tempest Fennac]

The Dynamic Priest feat allows you to use Cha for bonus spells and casting spells, right? I don't have the book, so I can't chack it, but if it does that, I seriously recommend it due to how needing both high Wis and Cha isn't good.

[Dode]

Yeah that's how it works but seeing as he's a race with a charisma penalty, I wouldn't recommend it.

[Tempest Fennac]

Good point.This is why I don't like spellcasters which need 2 high mental stats (it's okay with Point Buy, possibly, but it can be a liability when rolling).

[JaxGaret]

Any other suggestions, Dode? You seem to know the class pretty well, most people I've noticed tend to overlook it. I am planning to play a Spirit Shaman in an upcoming campaign, I've already read the Spirit Shaman Handbook, which isn't very comprehensive. I've also looked for interesting feats/class variants/PrCs to take with it, but haven't really found anything that jumped out at me, other than Dynamic Priest, which is definitely going to be my 1st level feat.

Have any ideas for fun/strong/crazy things to do with the Spirit Shaman? :smallsmile:

[Rei_Jin]

I'm playing a Spirit Shaman in a very similar situation to the OP. So far I've found that the best thing to do is to try and pick spells that make you as flexible as possible. Alter Self is a must at level 2.

I took Spirit Sense as an RP feat (From Heroes of Horror), which also gave me the bonus of not needing to capture enemies alive to interrogate them. I intend on taking levels in Mystic Wanderer (Magic of Faerun) for the additional abilities it gives, including CHA bonus to AC as a deflection bonus. Pick up a Monks Belt, and you will have an awesome AC, and the fact that you rely on two stats won't be as much of an issue.

If you're good aligned, pick up Intuitive Strike and Zen Archery. Then you won't require DEX at all. Buff your WIS and CHA well, and most other stats just don't matter anymore, especially when you get spells such as Shillelagh on your list.

[Tempest Fennac]

If your Cha is poor, picking spells which don;t need saving throws would be a great idea (I've heard that this sort of Spirit Shaman is still useful). In your case, focussing on healing and buff spells would be wise anyway if you're the only Divine Caster.

[JaxGaret]

I took Spirit Sense as an RP feat (From Heroes of Horror), which also gave me the bonus of not needing to capture enemies alive to interrogate them. I intend on taking levels in Mystic Wanderer (Magic of Faerun) for the additional abilities it gives, including CHA bonus to AC as a deflection bonus.

Hey, these are great ideas :smallsmile:

The Mystic Wanderer even fits with the flavor of the Spirit Shaman, since it gets +2 to Knowledge (Nature) and Profession (Herbalist) checks from the Lore of Nature class feature.

And of course Spirit Sense is right up the Spirit Shaman's alley.

[Atanuero]

Thanks for the suggestions.

We now have a cleric of Obad-Hai(who is being a healbot) in the group, and coupled with our Warlock and Sorcerer, I'm not really sure what I should be doing exactly anymore. Currently we're level 3 and I'm focusing on buffs and the occasional blast spell. Lion's Charge is proving invaluable in pretty much every somewhat-challenging encounter. I've decided on
Spirit Shaman 11/ Stormlord 8/ Contemplative 1 as a build, and now I'm thinking of different combinations of feats. I stupidly missed the fact that Spirit Shaman need Charisma, and gave myself an 8 after penalty, so Dynamic Priest is pretty much out of the questions.

[Dode]

Any other suggestions, Dode? You seem to know the class pretty well, most people I've noticed tend to overlook it. I am planning to play a Spirit Shaman in an upcoming campaign, I've already read the Spirit Shaman Handbook, which isn't very comprehensive. I've also looked for interesting feats/class variants/PrCs to take with it, but haven't really found anything that jumped out at me, other than Dynamic Priest, which is definitely going to be my 1st level feat.

Have any ideas for fun/strong/crazy things to do with the Spirit Shaman? :smallsmile:
Hah, no problem :)
Well, there's no good class variants, let's get that out of the way now.

Hmmm.. at level 6 you can start taking the Holt Warden PrC (Complete Champion) for no starter feats and just upping 2 class skills. It has full caster progression and is meant to be a sort of middle-ground between cleric and druid, but it works fine too if you're a shaman who wants a handful of druid/nature cleric abilities like rebuking plants or trackless step. Another interesting ability is the shared Heal ritual you start getting at 3rd level (and gain multiple times as you gain levels). Okay it's shared, but it's still a spell you're getting access to 3-4 levels early and it definitely frees up some spells if you're the party's healbot. It has some other abilities like communion with nature and extra spell recovery (!) once a day, it's definitely worth a look if you don't plan on fighting ghosts or elementals often.

Another full-casting option is the Earth Dreamer PrC from Races of Stone. Somewhat ignored because the skill reqs are druid-oriented but the class lacks wild shape, it's perfectly acceptable for Spirit Shamans, reachable at level 8 with 2 class skills and 1 feat (Earth Sense). The first 3 abilities (divination with a mountain, friendly to [Earth] critters, lesser tremorsense) are cute but not that great, but seeing through stone and earth glide at will for 4 and 5 make you a well-designed dungeon's nightmare. Feel free to combine with Mobile Spellcasting (Cadv) as well :).

But say you want Wild Shape to qualify for other PrCs or feats?. Okay, consider taking a level in Abolisher PrC(LoM) for some instant Wild Shape 1/day for the low requirements of Track, 9 ranks in Know:Nature and 4 ranks in crossclass Know:Dungeoneering. The rest of the PrC imo is take it or leave it (an 8/10 spellcasting class only useful against aberrations), but hey! Wild Shape! Now you can live the dream of being a shark that swims in dirt with the ability to bite ghosts.

Stormcaster from Stormwrack is a good choice if you want to be a blaster (and the Shaman is the best choice for divine blaster), 9/10 spell progression aside. It's a bit like Stormlord only with drastically lowered requirements (so low you can take it at 5th level with no feat reqs) and a focus on casting as opposed to weapon enhancements. It comes with +2 caster lvl for all air, wind, electricity/sonic resistance, some high-level druid spells as spell-like abilities. Oh and this


Thunderbolt (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, you use your
knowledge of the storm to add the power of thunder to
your lightning-based spells. Any spell you cast that deals
electricity damage also deals an extra 1 point of sonic
damage per spell level and stuns any creature damaged by
the spell for 1 round (Fortitude save negates; DC equals the
save DC of the spell, even if the spell wouldn’t normally
allow a save) Combine this with Born of the Three Thunders feat and slap this on Arc of Lightning when you hit level 9 and you've made a blaster who when he hits someone makes them save against reflex for damage, fort for stun, reflex to be knocked prone and fort vs. stun again.


I'll add some more to this later.

[Atanuero]

Stormcaster from Stormwrack is a good choice if you want to be a blaster (and the Shaman is the best choice for divine blaster), 9/10 spell progression aside. It's a bit like Stormlord only with drastically lowered requirements (so low you can take it at 5th level with no feat reqs) and a focus on casting as opposed to weapon enhancements. It comes with +2 caster lvl for all air, wind, electricity/sonic resistance, some high-level druid spells as spell-like abilities. Oh and this

Combine this with Born of the Three Thunders feat and slap this on Arc of Lightning when you hit level 9 and you've made a blaster who when he hits someone makes them save against reflex for damage, fort for stun, reflex to be knocked prone and fort vs. stun again.This is actually a much cooler prestige class than Stormlord, can't believe I never really noticed it. Couldn't you offset the 9/10 spell progression with a level of Contemplative, at least somewhat? Pick the right domain and the party won't even notice the missing spell level. Also, it seems like 8 is a good exit level for Stormcaster, as 9 and 10 are kind of lackluster and you could go back to Spirit Shaman and get nice things that you missed out on earlier.

Edit: Forgot the first [quote]. :smallannoyed:

[Fishy]

Especially for a Storm oriented spirit-shaman, I would hold off until level 10 for Stormcaster; because concentrating on Call Lightning and Call Lightning Storm is a purely mental action that your guide can do for you with Guide Magic, leaving you free to go about your day while your enemies explode around you.

[ocato]

'twere I optimizing a Spirit Shaman, I'd consider Raptorian. One of my main interests would be properly combining the Raptorian's Flight with heavy enough winds the negate any chance of a serious ranged attack. Now, the Stormcaster's wind shield probably covers this, but 10th level stormcaster (I think) means that the heavy hurricane force winds wouldn't stop you from blasting Arc Lightning or other non-ranged attack roll spells as you fly with relative autonomy (sorry splinter bolts, I lusch you still anyway).

Is this perfect? Hardly. A better bet would probably be Spirit Shaman 11 (for a spell-free quick res), stormcaster 8 (for most of what you need) and a level of contemplative (for a la-de-da-de-domain of your choice, I haven't settled on one yet). Domains are hard, kinda. My Raptorian choice makes Travel a mite bit off as far as Fly is concerned. Dimension Door and Teleport are still nice choices, but you lose out on the domain ability due to the distinct lack of cleric levels. I think one of the nicer options is Protection. Again, the lack of Cleric levels shuffles the domain ability off, but the spells granted are pretty good stuff that isn't on the druid list: Spell Resistance (Flying Raptorian Shaman says, "you can't shoot me, use rays on me, and I have SR versus targeted spells"), Mind Blank, Prismatic Sphere, Antimagic Field (you get a spear and dive attack as a Raptorian, a good last ditch effort), and Repulsion (for keeping other fliers away).

Again, not perfect-- but it sounds like a fun character. Grab your basic spontaneous casting feats (healer, summoner) if you feel the need (up your spellpool for the day), mobile spellcaster for your fly by splinter-bolting/lightning carpet bombs, and either a wad of casting feats (empower/maximize) or a wad of summoning feats (Ashbound for free extend on all summons and +3 luck to attacks made by summoned creatures), and maybe... Not sure. It's not quite worked out but it seems fun.

[Atanuero]

Where is the Mobile Spellcaster feat?

[ocato]

Complete Adventurer, as stated above.

[JaxGaret]

Hah, no problem :)

Thanks again, Dode!


Well, there's no good class variants, let's get that out of the way now.

That's what I figured.


Hmmm.. at level 6 you can start taking the Holt Warden PrC (Complete Champion) for no starter feats and just upping 2 class skills. It has full caster progression and is meant to be a sort of middle-ground between cleric and druid, but it works fine too if you're a shaman who wants a handful of druid/nature cleric abilities like rebuking plants or trackless step. Another interesting ability is the shared Heal ritual you start getting at 3rd level (and gain multiple times as you gain levels). Okay it's shared, but it's still a spell you're getting access to 3-4 levels early and it definitely frees up some spells if you're the party's healbot. It has some other abilities like communion with nature and extra spell recovery (!) once a day, it's definitely worth a look if you don't plan on fighting ghosts or elementals often.

Another full-casting option is the Earth Dreamer PrC from Races of Stone. Somewhat ignored because the skill reqs are druid-oriented but the class lacks wild shape, it's perfectly acceptable for Spirit Shamans, reachable at level 8 with 2 class skills and 1 feat (Earth Sense). The first 3 abilities (divination with a mountain, friendly to [Earth] critters, lesser tremorsense) are cute but not that great, but seeing through stone and earth glide at will for 4 and 5 make you a well-designed dungeon's nightmare. Feel free to combine with Mobile Spellcasting (Cadv) as well :).

But say you want Wild Shape to qualify for other PrCs or feats?. Okay, consider taking a level in Abolisher PrC(LoM) for some instant Wild Shape 1/day for the low requirements of Track, 9 ranks in Know:Nature and 4 ranks in crossclass Know:Dungeoneering. The rest of the PrC imo is take it or leave it (an 8/10 spellcasting class only useful against aberrations), but hey! Wild Shape! Now you can live the dream of being a shark that swims in dirt with the ability to bite ghosts.

Stormcaster from Stormwrack is a good choice if you want to be a blaster (and the Shaman is the best choice for divine blaster), 9/10 spell progression aside. It's a bit like Stormlord only with drastically lowered requirements (so low you can take it at 5th level with no feat reqs) and a focus on casting as opposed to weapon enhancements. It comes with +2 caster lvl for all air, wind, electricity/sonic resistance, some high-level druid spells as spell-like abilities. Oh and this

Combine this with Born of the Three Thunders feat and slap this on Arc of Lightning when you hit level 9 and you've made a blaster who when he hits someone makes them save against reflex for damage, fort for stun, reflex to be knocked prone and fort vs. stun again.

It's funny, three out of those four are the exact PrCs I had been looking at taking; I have a Dream Dwarf SS/Earth Dreamer, a Killoren SS/Holt Warden, and a Sea Kin SS/Stormcaster as ideas for characters. Yeah, I'm going all-out full cliche this time.

The Abolisher looks interesting, I may have to try and work something with that.



I'll add some more to this later.

That would be awesome :smallsmile:

[Dode]

If I was going to pick a Domain, it'd be Undeath for the Extra Turning feat.
Because Divine Metamagic is far better for Spirit Shamans then I originally thought.


If a Spirit Shaman knows any metamagic feats, she applies them to her spells when she retrieves her spells for the day. For example, a spirit shaman might choose to retrieve an empowered flame strike by using a 6th level retrieved slot. Any time she uses flame strike during the day, she must use a 6th level spell slot to cast it, and it is always empowered.
+

Divine Metamagic:

When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to spells that you know.

So, as written, you would apply Divine Metamagic just like you would normal metamagic (as opposed to a Metamagic Trick or a rod of metamagic, which both operate specifically differently), as in you apply it when retrieving your spells and then all your spells of that type would benefit from the single application of the feat. If you're a blaster, you could Maximize all your Flame Strikes, as a summonr you could Persist all your Summon Nature's Ally spells.