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Jayngfet
2008-09-20, 01:54 AM
I had an idea for a new setting and was wondering if it was viable:

The whole "world" is one huge Valley lined with huge(six mile high minimum) mountains, set close together, so anything outside is irrelevant. The sky always has thick clouds obscuring the sun, moon, and stars so those don't come up. There is always either light from the clouds or night. Rain is common.

In the mountains themselves are dwarves, mining mythril and adamantine, farming huge mushrooms, and occasionally adventuring if they get tired of mining and smithing jobs. They generally trade with grey elves and humans for what they can't make themselves.

There are huge rivers running down the mountains(due to all the rain) and into two huge lakes to the north. I'll come to those later.

The valley itself is split, the south is cold forest and the north is temperate forest. Wild elves are the main population of the actual valley, living in nomadic tribes led by druids.

Humans are generally thought to somehow come from outside the valley(though it's often wondered how) due to having a completly different level of technology from everybody else(inventing wizardry, using weapons from the renaissance weapons table). They live in the northern area, with a large city in the centre of the smaller of an island on the smaller of the two aforementioned lakes. The wizards made a smaller city on a floating hemisphere in the clouds(more on that if asked for).

High elves are considered half wild elf and gnomes are half dwarf, half elves are one quarter elf. Sorcerers are common among them.

Grey elves live on the mountainsides, having a small empire resembling a cross between Aztec/Inca civilizations.

Dark elves are a society of xenophobic druids living on a series of large islands on the largest lake. The only darkwood trees are located on these islands and are made to grow large and strong enough to block out whatever sunlight pierces the clouds. One tree is large enough to actually touch the clouds thanks to constant druid spells. Like standard drow they're a matriarchy who hate everything not a drow.

Aside from humans and such, the technology is low level, most weapons are wood or stone(except dwarves).

The standard god's are being used but several have been entirely reworked(Lolth is a predator type who thinks of herself as top of the food chain and looks down on everyone as opposed to chaotic for the hell of it).

Anything I miss?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-20, 01:57 AM
How come the Dwarves don't mine through the mountains? They obviously have Adamantite. Also, where are the Kobolds?

SoD
2008-09-20, 02:00 AM
By gnomes being half dwarf, I assume half dwarf/half human. Wouldn't it be more logical the other way around (as dwarves would be roughly halfway size-wise between gnomes/humans)?

Jayngfet
2008-09-20, 02:01 AM
I considered kobolds but decided against it.

I thought I mentioned that the mountains were really big, and have veins of adamantine getting in the way. And didn't mention a reason any dwarf would spend his whole life digging a tunnel like that.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-20, 02:03 AM
I considered kobolds but decided against it.

I thought I mentioned that the mountains were really big, and have veins of adamantine getting in the way. And didn't mention a reason any dwarf would spend his whole life digging a tunnel like that.Dwarves live to be ancient and have nothing to do but mine. Why wouldn't they break through at some point? I'm not talking a concentrated effort, I'm talking expanding their mining areas to get more lewtz because they exhausted the close ore. Sheer size doesn't seem to be a long-term solution.

BRC
2008-09-20, 02:04 AM
I considered kobolds but decided against it.

I thought I mentioned that the mountains were really big, and have veins of adamantine getting in the way. And didn't mention a reason any dwarf would spend his whole life digging a tunnel like that.

A dwarf maybe, but a group of dwarves could probably do it over several generations, and if they were getting adamite out of it, why not. especially if they get a Lyre of Building or somebody to cast Move Earth, they could get through that mountain easily.


In situations like this, we go to the old standby Religion. Dwarven Religion teaches that the mountains are all that's separating the world from big nasty things with teeth, or somthing similar. Therefore, the dwarves never try to dig through.

Jayngfet
2008-09-20, 02:20 AM
Or you could ask why several generations of dwarves have left civilization to risk cave-ins, burrowing monsters, and devote their whole lives to digging to a place they've never heard of for the hell of it.

Douglas
2008-09-20, 02:20 AM
In situations like this, we go to the old standby Religion. Dwarven Religion teaches that the mountains are all that's separating the world from big nasty things with teeth, or somthing similar. Therefore, the dwarves never try to dig through.
Should work, and sounds like a great setup for a possible BBEG too. If you want to use it that way, have some dwarf who wants to mine a tunnel all the way through. I can think of several possible motives: he's greedy and doesn't believe the monsters really exist; he wants to end the world for some reason; he thinks he can control the monsters and use them to conquer everyone; he's convinced he can kill the monsters and thinks he'll be declared a great hero once he has done so; and so on.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-20, 02:23 AM
Or you could ask why several generations of dwarves have left civilization to risk cave-ins, burrowing monsters, and devote their whole lives to digging to a place they've never heard of for the hell of it.They're not digging to get to the other side, they're digging because they're Dwarves and have mined out all the good sites nearby. We're talking a greedy race that works insanely long hours for the fun of it and has nothing else to do but mine and drink, combined with a long lifespan and all the population issues that brings up. It may take a while, but under normal circumstances they would break through eventually unless there was a specific reason not to, and expect your players to point that out.

Douglas
2008-09-20, 02:23 AM
Or you could ask why several generations of dwarves have left civilization to risk cave-ins, burrowing monsters, and devote their whole lives to digging to a place they've never heard of for the hell of it.
Depending on how long dwarves have lived there, they could conceivably go all the way through just by gradually expanding their mines without it being a concerted effort at all - "Hey boss, I was following that new vein of mithral ore and just broke a hole clear through to sunlight!"

Jayngfet
2008-09-20, 02:27 AM
Hmmm, how about the religion thing, with clear markers in nearby tunnels with a fortified wall of Iron with a sign telling them to turn back. If they ignore it they still have to dig through that.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-20, 02:35 AM
Hmmm, how about the religion thing, with clear markers in nearby tunnels with a fortified wall of Iron with a sign telling them to turn back. If they ignore it they still have to dig through that.we're talking Dwarves. As long as there's a religious reason, they won't tunnel, and as long as you have no Kobolds, that means no one else will dig far enough. Big mountains filled with Adamantite will stop anyone else. It doesn't have to be a particularly deep reason, as long as there is one. Otherwise players will notice.

Jayngfet
2008-09-20, 11:01 AM
Bumped, any other questions.

Mastikator
2008-09-20, 11:38 AM
Do you have a map?

Jayngfet
2008-09-20, 11:44 AM
I don't have much to make one with, I might be able to draw and trace one in a bit but My scanner isn't great for that kind of thing.

Prometheus
2008-09-20, 10:22 PM
It seems to me there would be a real estate problem. Be sure to decide who gets the short end of the stick and what that is.

vicente408
2008-09-20, 11:10 PM
we're talking Dwarves. As long as there's a religious reason, they won't tunnel, and as long as you have no Kobolds, that means no one else will dig far enough. Big mountains filled with Adamantite will stop anyone else. It doesn't have to be a particularly deep reason, as long as there is one. Otherwise players will notice.

This also allows for a potential plot hook regarding a mad heretic dwarf who is determined to mine through to the other side.

Hal
2008-09-21, 07:25 AM
Just how big is this valley, anyhow? Since I'm assuming your PCs would all be natives, you'll have to work out just how much they know about the world. If this is an isolated area with a limited number of towns, it's reasonable to assume that your average individual would know most of the landscape, as well as the major political players.

Also, if you're going to lower the tech level, you'll need to explain why the dwarves don't trade with the people of the valley. And a wizard city in the sky? The biggest problem that introduces is having to deal with the outside world.

mostlyharmful
2008-09-21, 03:20 PM
Sounds a lot like "Magic kingdom for sale, SOLD", in that system the world was built on a similar scale and surrounded by the faerie mists, essentially that the worlds boundaries were fuzzy and if you steped into the fuzz you were in a non-sequential limbo between dimensions.

Your mountains could be surrounded by a similar metaphysical shortcut or it could just be a very obscure part of a larger realm. That'd actually be a very interesting plot hook, to have an adventuring team break out of "Shangri-La" and discover a strange world outside all that was previously known, give them a few months knocking about in this sealed system then have it "infected" by outside thinking and technology. How would you react as an Aztec if the spaniards turned up at your door?

Kol Korran
2008-09-23, 01:29 PM
first of all- i like the idea. it's refreshing. and i like the focus on a small area (small being relative of course)
secondly. this is my first entry in months. i've been away for quite a bit, so forgive me for some absentmindness and so on. a bit rusty here.

as to thoughts and suggestions:
1) i second Hal's question- how big is the valley? large enough to hold a region? a small country? a big one? a continent? and how much of the lay out is known by it's inhabitants? this are big question that define the scope and attitude of the people in the world, as well as the starting world familiarity of the characters... maybe if you'll supply an answer we can come up with more appropriate ideas.

2) "the prowlers" or "why dwarves don't mine to the outside": religion is nice and dandy, but there are always brave souls who may seek the unknown. my advice is that you add some sort of horrific monster that lives in the outer depths of the subterenean mountanious realm. these monsters should be of a high enough CR to thwart all but the most serious of adventurers.
i'd suggest you incorporate the Prowlers (lame name, but might fit in this case, told you i was rusty) in the dwarven myths, legends and religions. if the character learn about them, these are still mythical creatures to them, but if an adventure demands they "live on the edge" than they might find some legends have teeth.

who are the Prowlers in my vision? a sort of a downgraded subterenean dragon. i imagine a great serpent, without hind legs or wings, who lives on the metals and ores found only in the outer regions of the mountain, though they attack and kill nearly anyone foolish enough to enter their domains. this creature has a basic intelligence nad can speak (int 5-8 i'd imagine), but all the pride and arrogance of a great wyrm. the prowlers have impressive burrowing speeds and long range tremor sense. in the close quarters they fight their frond legs and teeth usually suffice, though you may give them some sort of a special ability (such as a breath weapon, a remant of the dragons they once came from). i envision the prowlers at CR 10-14...

all in all, the prowlers work both as deterent, and as a deadly exciting subterenean challange.

3) "and above live the giant" or "why can't they just climb the mountains": though the dwarves control the lower depths of the inner mountains, and some of the above terrain as well, at the hieghts, peaks and crests of the six mountains live the giants. i'd suggest to limit yourself to 2-3 types. the giants live in the hieghts, and keep that border, occasionaly going lower inwards towards the valley to either trade or (more often) raid. fortunatly the giants never tried to inhabit the vale itself, whether it is because of the air density, humidity, or some other factor is not well known. giants who descend to the valley begin showing signs of discomfort, and return to the mountains within a week or two.. the dwarfs of course have a long history with the giants (which could do well to explain their +4 dodge against them and their kin), both good and bad.

as i see it the main type of giant is stone giant- at home in the mountains, has more culture than hill giants, and is more interesting. (if this idea intrigues you, go to the link on my signature, i expanded quite a bit on stone giants in a thread called "ode to the..." i hope it still functions. just scroll to the appropriate entry) a small number from the stone giants population posses the rare ability to withstand the discomforts and ailments the rest suffers when descending to the vale. these giants become sort of emmiseries and tradrers between the various giants of the 6 mountains, and the common races as well... (for the DM- source of information, interesting allies/ foes, interesting diplomatic encounters and more). in my thread i called these giants ThunderClaps

one of the other types of giants i suggest is either fire or frost giants, who live only on one of the six mountains. this mountain is either eternelly cold, filled with glaciers and the like, or a big volcano, maybe with several craters. these are here to add variety (without becoming rediculeously varied), and perhaps more depth to the dwarves. i see the dwarven culture to have had strong ties with the fire giants for example, learning or teaching the secrets of metel forging and so on, only to have a serious falling out afterwards. you can then take it many ways- there can be bitterness between the sides, just sadness at what was lost, a desire to reconciliate, a desire to obliterate, many, many ideas...

i'd suggest to avoid any other giant types, but if you must then add some solitery fortress of the few last storm/ cloud giants. the sages and leaders of the race, possesing ancient knowledge, living in the highest peak, constantly under a lightning storm. just reaching these "wise old person" type of creature can be an adventure.

3) "Fey with the killer smile" or "a spin on the undead role": now this idea came to me since i envisioned your campaign world as basically a great vale filled with forest edge to edge (i know it's not, but it's the general impression). undead felt a bit out of place here for me, but fey felt like they swarm in this place. sooooo... an idea crept to my mind to replace fey with the traditional undead niche- unnatural horror, relentless, unbound by one of the definition of life.

as i see it, the undead in the vale are a rare sight, and don't get nearly as much attention as they do in other world.. however, there is a "wrongness" in the vale. at various locals, times and seasons, parts of the forest seem to become animated, by malicious, vindicitve, murderous forces. "Evil spirits" subvert the natural world, paining it while they go on their hatefull agendas. the druids, and other religious persona in the vale (spirit shamans can use their powers against them. cleric posses the ability turn/rebuke fey/elemental/plat instead of the usuall ability against undead), try to stop these beings, or even destryo them, but certain locations and places remain strong.

i might have lost you, but i hope not. the idea is to make fey, an evil kind of fey more plentifull. the general core personality is that of the Joker fro mthe Batman movie i guess- amused, sadistic, and going to extremes. a few general characteristics that i thought of:
- nearly all fey appear and act only under special circumstances, a specific time, a specific area, or when certain conditions are met. the murderous spirit who comes only at the summer's wind, the hungering trolls who come out of their holes only at night (will get to that example soon), the whirpool spirit that can only drwon it's victims if blood was spilled in it's stream, and so on... the lore on when nad where they attack became more and more importent, and is one of the reasons the humans have notyet ventured deep into the forest (the eleves know all the "Tricks" in their local)
- the fey also vary in "type"- some have a strong connection to vegetation, some to soil and earth, some to stream, lakes and pools, and some to winds. the powers and forces of the fey depend on it's type. very few fey, mostly those connected to areas anbd regions, can control and use several types of manipulation of nature.
- these fey, unlike "normal fey", are simply WRONG. soemthing about them feels unnatural, a subversion of the normal way of things. you may give druids/ spirit shamans/ rangers/ clerics and so on a "sense perversion" sort of power.
- the simplest of Fey are Woodlings (you can find a better name)- these are animated trees and shrubbery, given the simplest animlaistic intelligence. they are usually the creation of a much stronger fey, and an indication of it's presence. they are the equivalent of zombies and skeletons, and can be made into many shapes and sizes. each of these masses of vegetation is in constant pain, whiule the spirit inhabiting it controls and wrenches it to it's own dark agenda.
- no energy drain, but perhaps constituion drain? that might become permenent?

oh, before i forget- the druids (and others) have created all kind of "Safe zones" that block thepowers of the fey. these are what stand between life and death for many adventurers.

short example, featuring Trolls, now as Deadly Fey: the party needs to traverse the Forest of Howls (names stinks, i know). before they arrive they research it a bit, and learn that many ravenous "evil spirits" come out of the trees to feed at night. they must make their way quickly. on the way they get lost, and night approaches. when the sun sets, a howl comes up, and all around the forest trolls emerge from the bark into which they melded during the day. hungry, they begin to sniff... the party's ranger notices a wood sign, one that points to a local safe zone. thye begin to run. soon there are more howls, now coming closer to them, just before they reach the stone circle, 3 trolls block their way. as they fight the troll, thye burn one deeply, and they see it's arm turning into darkening bark which crumbles. entering the circle, they are safe by it's magic, as they look upon the frenzied circle of trolls around them, their spirits angry... the long wait till sunrise begins.

4) Gargolyes: sorry, a little pet project of mine- spereading gargoyles everywhere. on my thread i have expanded gargoyles to a great degree, and with but small changes they can fit here too. make their camoflauge fit a wooded setting instead of statues. and voila! you got yourself a stalking predator. if' you'll read in my thread you could easely aling gargoyles with nearly any group you've mentioned, and they can have a special role against the evil fey.

5) Treants: these should probably have a large place in your world. i'd imagine teaching or learning from the druids, alliances with various elven groups (both wood elves and drow). take some time and work it through. it might add more depth to the world.

that is all... a long entry i know. i usually write long, so sue me. let me know if you liekd or used and of my ideas- feedback is always welcomed.
Kol Korran.