Arena Tournament, Round 48: Stewie vs Flamekin

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 48: Stewie vs. Flamekin

Map

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q76/NamelessOne_album/SinkingIsland.jpg


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

Talic - Stewie (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=4793)
theterran - Flamekin (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=4720)

All Gladiators, please roll initiative.

[Talic]

Checking in, debating purchases. That character scares me.

For the record, between rounds, I purchased a scroll and a potion. Wanted to make sure I had access to nerveskitter.

[theterran]

Just FYI, according to what I asked...you can't cast Nerveskitter off of a scroll before the match. At least according to what I was told. :smallannoyed:

I will update my character sheet and post Initiative shortly.

[Talic]

If you're looking at the same place I am (current waiting room), then the argument went farther than my first post.

Check the following posts in the waiting room (starting on page 23):
676 (your question)
679 (1st answer, by me)
685 (Morbius weighs in)
686 (Chile's 1st)
687 (dman)
688 (Chile reverses his position, cites Rules Compendium)
689 (I paraphrase the rule)
690 (dman again)
691 (Chile verifies my understanding of the rule)
696 (more RAW text for support of immediate action spells are immediate action reads)

Final consensus was that any item which duplicates a spell, uses that spell's casting time. If it does not duplicate a spell, spell completion items have an activation time of 1 standard action.

[theterran]

REALLY?

Must look then :smallbiggrin:

Well alright then :smallcool:

[Talic]

Fair nuff. I tried to reference it well enough to make it easily findable.

[theterran]

Alright, Bought a scroll of Nerveskitter

I will use that scroll to help with INitiative

[roll0]

Stats to come.

[Talic]

KK. I'll forego using mine.

Initiative: [roll0]

[Talic]

My Turn 1:

Begin N1, potion of Hide from animals in 1 hand, Scroll in other.
Swift: Activate Travel Devotion.
Standard: Drink potion.
Move: N1 to U3.
Free: Drop empty potion in U2.

End Turn.

Stats:Location: U3
In Hand: Scroll
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 1/10
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4

REFS NOTE: Theterran used an immediate action to cast Nerveskitter. That costs him his next swift action, namely, his round 1 swift action.

[theterran]

(Gah! Why can I NEVER win Init!)

Flamekin - Round 1

Actions

Swift Action: Cast Swift Expeditious Retreat. Move to M11.

Ready an Action to cast Sudden Maximized Kelgore's Firebolt on LoE.

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2] - Just in Case

End my Turn. LoS check...

Stats:
Location: M11
HP:5/5
AC:13 Touch: 13 FF:10

Spells:
Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Adumbration]

Ref Adumbration (Yes, it's the fancy red color again. Sorry-eh)

Just a little clarification. Talic, I could swear you planned this.

@theterran and refs:

Using an immediate action on your turn is the same as using a swift action, and counts as your swift action for that turn. You cannot use another immediate action or a swift action until after your next turn if you have used an immediate action when it is not currently your turn (effectively, using an immediate action before your turn is equivalent to using your swift action for the coming turn). You also cannot use an immediate action if you are flat-footed.
Thus, you couldn't cast Swift expeditious retreat. This also begs the question if you can cast Nerveskitter, becouse one is flat-footed in the first round of the match, if memory serves correct.

[Bayar]

Ref Bayar

Reply to Adumbration:
Neverskitter can be cast when you roll initiative. It doesnt matter if you are FF. It is in the spell description. If when rolling initiative you are FF, then the spell still allows you to cast it as an immediate action...it is an exception from the normal rules. Plus, that actually happens in round 0, when initiative is rolled.

[Talic]

So, is everything clear to continue? I noticed the link for ref involvement in the waiting room.

[theterran]

I would like another ref comment before we continue, as there is some descrepency concerning whether or not my move is legal.

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@theterran, refsI uphold Ref Adumbration's ruling*. Casting Nerveskitter during initiative uses up your swift action for round 1. The swift expeditious retreat is illegal.

@bayar, there is no 'round 0' (CS majors, sit down.) "At the start of battle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm)" is the top of Round 1.
If when rolling initiative you are FF, then the spell still allows you to cast it as an immediate action...it is an exception from the normal rules.Can you support this with quotes? I don't see it under Immediate action. Is it part of the text of Nerveskitter?

*Just realized Adumbration made two points. As to the second, I consider the use of Nerveskitter itself to be settled law, though I admit I haven't studied the case history enumerated here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4967509&postcount=4).

theterran, please repost your turn.

[theterran]

((Meh...well that ruling hurts a little))

Flamekin - Round 1 (redux)


Actions:
Well, if I can't go straight up the middle, might as well run for the cliffs.

Move to R21.

Ready an Action to cast Sudden Maximized Kelgore's Firebolt on LoE.


End Turn.

Stats;
Location: R21
HP:5/5
AC:13 Touch: 13 FF:10

Spells:

Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Talic]

Stewie, Round 2

Island sinks a bit.


Standard: Read Mirror image off of scroll.
CL Check: [roll0] vs DC 4
Wis check if fail: [roll1] vs DC 5

If Successful, [roll2]

EDIT: Ugh, horrible. But better than nothing.

Per Mirror Image:

Mirror image creates 1d4 images plus one image per three caster levels (maximum eight images total). These figments separate from you and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you. You can move into and through a mirror image. When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image. The figments may also move through each other. The figments mimic your actions, pretending to cast spells when you cast a spell, drink potions when you drink a potion, levitate when you levitate, and so on.

Per the text of mirror image, I will determine the success of the spell and place them accordingly.

Not done.

[Talic]

Turn (continued):

Mirror images in U4, V4.

Free: Drop Prone, holding breath. (duration 32 rounds) This places me in shallow water, underwater, with 1 of my images visible on land (U4), and another in the water (V4).

As I am underwater, the surface of the water breaks LOE for fire spells (hooray for opponent being a one-trick pony). Further, I am granted full cover from ranged attacks made by opponents on shore.

Done. No LOS required.

Stats: Location: U3, prone, under shallow water.
In Hand: Scroll (Expeditious Retreat, Nerveskitter)
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 2/10, Hide from Animals 2/600, Mirror image (2) 1/180
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in U4, V4, prone (V4 underwater total cover)

[Morbius]

High Ref Morbius


@Talic
I don't think you can do what you want by RAW beacusa of this:



The figments mimic your actions, pretending to cast spells when you cast a spell, drink potions when you drink a potion, levitate when you levitate, and so on

Because of that both images would drop prone like you, anything you do they will do as well


match on hold

[Talic]

High Ref Morbius


@Talic
I don't think you can do what you want by RAW beacusa of this:



Because of that both images would drop prone like you, anything you do they will do as well


match on hold
@morbius:They're all prone. The one that's visible is in a 5 foot square that is not covered by water. Myself and the other one are in 5 foot squares with shallow water. Thus, when the first is prone, it is visible. When myself and the 2nd is prone, we have all the benefits and penalties of being submerged.

[Morbius]

High Ref Morbius


@Talic
Sneaky...(sorry about that)

move on

[theterran]

Did he mention LoS?

[Morbius]

High Ref Morbius

Ahem, sorry
LOS

Stewie
No LoS

Flamekin
No LoS

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

Don't stop the match, I'm just chatting.

@refsSo, how is line of sight going to work through water? By RAW, it looks like there's full cover going from land to water, but there's no mention of a problem going from water to land? If the person on land has a freedom of movement, he ignores the cover, but since I'm just talking about LoS consequences, there's a disconnect there. Even if it's murky, underwater visibility is measured in 10's of feet (I think somebody's never been scuba diving).

"Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway." The Special, below is not applicable. It talks about Invisibility, which grants total concealment, but only a bonus to Hide checks. But that "usually" assumes that your total cover isn't transparent-- say, a thick pane of glass. What about water?

When Flamekin comes around that corner, is he going to see only the image on land or all three? I know what Talic assumes.

If he only sees one, should he be told that Stewie's (and therefore the image's) clothes are behaving strangely (floating, as the water bouys them)?

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 2

Actions:
Swift Action: Cast Swift Expeditious Retreat.
Move to U10.

[roll0]
[roll1]


Not Done. Need LoS.

Stats:
Location: U10
HP:5/5
AC:13 Touch: 13 FF:10

Spells:


Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Morbius]

High Ref Maurkov

Don't stop the match, I'm just chatting.

@refsSo, how is line of sight going to work through water? By RAW, it looks like there's full cover going from land to water, but there's no mention of a problem going from water to land? If the person on land has a freedom of movement, he ignores the cover, but since I'm just talking about LoS consequences, there's a disconnect there. Even if it's murky, underwater visibility is measured in 10's of feet (I think somebody's never been scuba diving).

"Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway." The Special, below is not applicable. It talks about Invisibility, which grants total concealment, but only a bonus to Hide checks. But that "usually" assumes that your total cover isn't transparent-- say, a thick pane of glass. What about water?

When Flamekin comes around that corner, is he going to see only the image on land or all three? I know what Talic assumes.

If he only sees one, should he be told that Stewie's (and therefore the image's) clothes are behaving strangely (floating, as the water bouys them)?

High Ref Morbius

refs
Actually when I think about it total cover does not actually means it blocks of Line of Sight (just see the glass arena for an example...

[Talic]

My understanding of the match thus far:

Any can read:
I called attention to my Nerveskitter purchase, in an effort to persuade Theterran to match me. This worked. I then noted to refs in my round 1 action block that theterran lost his swift action for round 1 by doing that, as theterran's win strat here seems to be swift exp retreat(for enough move to gain LOS) + turbocharged spell on the first round.

Now that I've clogged his primary round 1 strat at the swift action stage, I move on with the rest of my stuff. Adumbration kinda gave me a hint that the clarification called for was what I suspected would happen (though in all honesty, any request for a brief pause for whatever reason would have confirmed it), and the followup by theterran on how the ruling hurt led me to believe that was upheld. As the match was freed to resume, I assume that's over and done with.

Since then, however, we've had Morbius and Maurkov having a "chat" (probably related to this match, or else it'd be in PM or waiting room). Since that point, refs have been avoiding LOS checks here like the plague (Bayar specifically assisted me the other day, and stated that the only matches that he didn't LOS were ones that involved him, or that he didn't feel comfortable LOS'ing) Thus, I'm guessing it's likely an issue that's currently relevant, and pertains to LOS, else it would have been updated in that last check.

@Refs only:TheTerran doesn't seem to have a lot of LOS tricks going on, by the character sheet. Mostly straightforward attack and defense, which is in keeping with his standard builds. Not ruling out that it could be his action that's causing the chaos, but, from experience, "chats" in arena matches tend to be over some esoteric point of note that could have match impact.

The only things I can think of that are questionable are:
Does hide from animals apply to the sharks in this arena? (my thoughts - yes, as nothing in the arena text hints that they are different from standard sharks.)
Something having to do with Mirror image and placement of the images.
Something having to do with the Water and its use.

As the first one isn't LOS related, I can likely rule it out. Especially since nobody's in deep water, and as shark attacks occur at end of turn, then I shan't have a chance of it prior to having the opportunity to try to move.

This leaves use of mirror image and use of water as the only things I could be having this question.

Unfortunately, that's about as much as I can currently deduce from the information available to me.

If this is in relation to my actions, and it won't provide me with an undue advantage, would it be possible to get a little more information on the holdup? At this point, I may very well be willing to concede a point to get this back on track.

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@TalicYou are perspicacious. Please read my comment at post 24 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4989462&postcount=24) and explain how you expect LoS to work.

[Talic]

@Refs:If it will get this back on track, I'm more than willing to concede that yes, water is clear. :smallbiggrin:

As for the buoyed clothing/etc... Typically LOS checks don't go into that much detail. However, it is within a ref's rights to extend the detail of an los check to include changes to appearance and status. If you feel it necessary to state that Stewie's clothing and hair are hanging loosely on his body, and drifting about in a slow, rhythmic pattern, do so. It won't impact my future strategy too much. I would request that you paraphrase it, rather than use "like they would if underwater". Let theterran have to at least put 2 and 2 together.

[theterran]

After all this talking...if a ref comes back and says "No LoS"...I'll be :smallfurious:




:smallwink:

[Talic]

LOL, that would be funny.

[theterran]

I get the feeling Refs are purposefully ignoring our match...:smallconfused:

[Talic]

Nah, Maurkov has the reffing daddy pants right here, so most of the other refs don't want to get involved, seeing as he hasn't actually made a ruling on all the stuff above. The match (and my other one) will eventually NEED attention, when all the other matches for the round are being held up by them.

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

Huh. I didn't think particular matches were owned by particular refs. But if I'm the only one going to do this, I will. Last time I rushed a LoS check I made an error, so I need until this afternoon when my schedule frees up.

[Talic]

Meh, just saying that refs sometimes get hesitant to make rulings/checks in areas that have involvement by other refs, as they don't want to step on toes. Chile cited your involvement as being the reason he didn't get this one on track.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

I hate doing LoS because I have to spend so much time figuring out who's where and has what buffs active that make them harder/easier to see. I usually leave it to the first ref on the scene, since he already has a clue what's going on.

Stewie

No LoS


Flamekin


After all this talking...if a ref comes back and says "No LoS"...I'll be :smallfurious:

Your worst nightmare has occurred.

No LoS.

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

Sure. Now I get ninja'd. But I'm not sure I agree.

@KyeudoI'm pretty sure Flamekin (U10) can see Stewie's image in (V4). I haven't figured the angles yet (stupid fractional altitude), but he might be able to see U4 and U3 too.

Edit: Here we go:
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee205/Maurkov/Stewie1.jpg
The top image is the view down the U file. Depending how you interpret the slopping elevation, and how tall a prone opponent should be, there might possibly be LoS.

Down File V (from the NE top corner of Flamekin), we definitely have LoS. Talic agreed that water is transparent, so despite having full cover from the water, that image should be visible.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

@Maurkov

I didn't bother checking V file too hard. Looks like I made a mistake.


@Flameking

Looks like I was wrong. You do have LoS. You see Stewie swimming in V4.

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

Thank you.
@StewieStill no LoS for you.
@FlamekinTo be more precise, he is completely submerged.
Play on!

[Talic]

Yay! Now hurry up and find me! I want to know which of us is gonna one shot the other!

[theterran]

Sorry Talic, not quite done with questioning yet :smalltongue:

@Ref Question
Is he swimming as Kyeudo says, or is he actually touching the ground? Surprisingly, this is important :smallsmile:

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@FlamekinYes. The water is shallow enough that he can't be submerged without touching the ground.

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 2 (cont)

Actions/Refs:
I will Cast "Sticky Floor" (RotD) in V4-W5.
A Reflex Save DC 15 will be needed or He'll be stuck to the floor...underwater.

I will then drop Prone.


Turn Done.

Stats:
Location: U10 (prone)
HP:5/5
AC:13 Touch: 13 FF:10
Spells:

Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor-x

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@FlamekinFrom your current position, you can't quite see the U3-V4 intersection (blocked by the cliff edge at U8-V8). You can see V3-W4 and V4-W5.

[theterran]

@Refs
Alright, V4-W5 works...that'll block the quick way to me as well should he pass the ref save. :smallsmile:

I'll edit my post above.

I'm finished w/ my turn...FINALLY!

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@FlamekinI'm not familiar with that spell. Can you quote it?

Pre LoS question

[theterran]

@Refs
Yep, Its from Races of the Dragon:


Sticky FLoor
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Components V,S,M
Casting Time: 1 standard Action
Range: Close (25ft. +5ft /2 levels)--I believe I'm at max range, but in range.
Area: 10ft-by10ft square
Duration: 1 hour/level
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
Spell Resistance: No

Creatures that are within or that enter the area of a sticky floor spell are immediately stuck in place and entangled. A successful Reflex Save means the creature can move from its space but is still considered entangled as long as it remains in the area. A creature stuck in place can break loose by using a standard action to make a DC 15 Strength check or Escape Artist check. Each round at the beginning of your turn, any creature within the area must succeed on another Reflex save to avoid becoming stuck in place again.

The effect of this spell even extends through footwear, so merely removing your boots doesn't free you from the effect. Creatures not in contact with the surface of the ground (such as flying, burrowing, or incorporeal creatures) are unnaffected by sticky floor. Kobold sorcerers often use this spell to protect their lairs, and some theorize that they learned it from dragons.

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@FlamekinYou are mistaken. At 1st level your range is 25'. You are 15' above and 30' south of your intended target.

Relevant SRD quote, "If any portion of the spell’s area would extend beyond this range, that area is wasted."

[theterran]

@Maurkov
Crap...I forgot about Height...so is the entire spell wasted then?

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

An illegal action was declared. Flamekin, please rewind to post 43 and redo your action.

[Talic]

LOL, I declared done on my last turn 10 days and 32 posts ago...

I just wanna kill stuff.

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 2 (redux)

Actions:
Take a 2nd move to R15 and end my turn...


End my Turn...There should be No LoS and my move is TOTALLY legal...so you can go talic. :smallwink:

Stats:
Location: R15
HP:5/5
AC:13 Touch: 13 FF:10
Spells:


Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

LoS check:

@FlamekinYou wish. Stepping from U10 to T9 you see two more Stewies. One is prone in U4 and the other (under water) is prone in U3. Let me know if that alters the rest of your movement.

@StewieYou see Flamekin enter T9 (from U10), and unless he changes his move (again) based on this LoS, continues west, out of sight.

[theterran]

I'll keep it 'as is' just to keep this going...:smalleek:

[Talic]

Stewie, Round 3!

Water rises a bit.

I'm swimming now. My water is deep. Turn will be posted to make it 1 post, even though there's a few options here. My intent is to move out of deep water. However, I need to make a DC 10 swim check to assure that.

Swim Check (once per round) - [roll0] DC 10

Success/failure will determine remainder of move.

EDIT: And how. Roll of 1. I would normally go underwater, but I'm already there. Remainder of action: As I'm on the bottom, and I have objects weighing at least 16 pounds, I have Firm Footing(per SRD, Aquatic Terrain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm#aquaticTerrain)). Thus I can move as normal, except at half movement. I know, it's insanely odd to be weighed down by Wood, which one would normally consider a floating material, but hey, I don't make the rules... (http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?showBleed=false&ProductNo=87668419&colorNo=6&pr=F) And 20 pounds of firewood qualifies as "at least 16 pounds of gear".

By this, my movement is halved... So moving from U3 to U4 costs 10 movement. From there, movement is normal, and Here's how it'll play out.

Swift: Move from U3 to U4, then to U6, then to W9 (40).
Standard: Cast Expeditious retreat from scroll.
Free: Drop Scroll.
Move: From W9 to S22 (70 move). I'm in Shallow water. Images are moving in the two squares ahead of me the entire time, and stop in R23 and S23.
Free:Fall prone, submerging in water, and starting the breath holding anew.

Done. Need LOS.

Stats:
Location: S22, prone, under shallow water.
In Hand: Scroll (Expeditious Retreat, Nerveskitter)
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 3/10, Hide from Animals 3/600, Mirror image (2) 2/180, Holding Breath (1/32)
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in S23, R23, prone (underwater; total cover)

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

This match is going to require a lot of hand-holding, isn't it?

@StewieYou were prone. Since prone is a good position for swimming, you don't need to spend an action to stand up before you swim. But you failed to swim. You're carrying enough gear to hold you down, so you're still prone. Is there an aspect of the travel devotion that allows you to crawl fast or stand up as a free action?

While you're recalculating your move, recall that it's also half speed to move through shallow (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#miscellaneousFeatures) pools of water.

[Talic]

Oof, correct.

In that case:

Move: Stand.
Swift: Travel devotion, move from U3 to U4 (10 feet), U4 to U5 (20 total). Images in V5 and V6.
Standard: Cast Expeditious Retreat.
Free: Drop prone.

All three images should be under water. (me and my 2 imaginary friends).

If my colorblindness is acting up, and that is not shallow water I'm in, let me know so I can change it.

Done again. More LOS.

Stats
Location: U5, prone, under shallow water.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter)
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 3/10, Hide from Animals 3/600, Mirror image (2) 2/180, Holding Breath (1/32)
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in V5, V6, prone (underwater; total cover)

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

LoS

@StewieNo LoS. U5, V5, and V6 are all shallow water.
@FlamekinNo LoS.

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 3

Actions:
Move Action: Draw a Scroll of Shield
5ft Step to S15.

If there is no LoS, I will Cast Shield

End my Turn

Stats:
Location: S15
HP:5/5
AC:17 Touch: 13 FF:14
Shield (1/10)?
Spells:


Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

LoS

@StewieNo LoS.
@FlamekinNo LoS.

[Talic]

Stewie, Round 4

Water Rises a bit more.

My Turn:Ok, I'm in U4. My opponent is likely on the east rise, unless he managed to make the jump between the two. Either he's dead center up top, waiting until I get "driven up" by the rising water... Which I won't be. I'm immune to sharks, and I hold my breath... Or he's on the edge, waiting for LOS to blast me. I can be safe from that by staying under water, and more than 30 feet away. Thank god for water surface breaking LoE for fire spells, heh.

I've got decent movement, so even my quarter move swim is 15 feet. So let's see where that gets me.

Swim check for round 4:[roll0]

More to follow after result.

EDIT: Yay, success. Staying underwater.
Swift: Swim from U4 to W6 (15 feet, which is 1/4 my 70 movement).
Move: Swim from W6 to X9
Move: put up Scroll.

As All I've done is move actions, I shouldn't have lost time on my breath (swift actions are like free, except that you can only take 1 per turn). If so, it's no big deal. Even losing 2 rounds of breath a turn, the island will be gone before my breath is.


Done. Wait for LOS.

Stats:Location: U5, prone, under water.
In Hand: Nothing.
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 4/10, Hide from Animals 4/600, Mirror image (2) 3/180, Holding Breath (2/32)
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in V5, V6, prone (underwater; total cover)

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

Stewie needs to fix his move.

@Stewie"There is no effect on other modes of movement, such as burrow, climb, fly, or swim (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/expeditiousRetreat.htm)."

[Talic]

@Refs, Maurkov:Listed in the Swim skill of the SRD:
Action

A successful Swim check allows you to swim one-quarter of your speed as a move action or one-half your speed as a full-round action.

The Expeditious Retreat is doing nothing to my swim speed, directly. After all, I have no swim speed. It increases my base land speed.

My base land speed is used in calculating how far I may move when I make that successful swim check. It does not, however, give me a swim speed.
(If I had a swim speed, I would not have to make swim checks every round to move, and I'd get bonuses to special swim checks.)

[Maurkov]

High Ref Maurkov

@StewieRead the quote again: "There is no effect on other modes of movement, such as burrow, climb, fly, or swim."

Without the spell you're able to swim 10' in a move action. If you were able to swim an extra 5' with the spell, that would be an effect on an other mode of movement, which the spell specifically forbids.

[Talic]

@Refs:Making the restrictive interpretation official. Mmk.

Swift: Move U4 to V6 (10') (swim)
Move: Move V6 to X7 (10') (swim)
Move: Move X7 to X9 (10') (swim)

Keep scroll in hand.

Done Again. LOS please.

Stats:Location: X9, swimming, under water.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter).
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 4/10, Hide from Animals 4/600, Mirror image (2) 3/180, Holding Breath (2/32), Expeditious Retreat 2/10
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in X8, W7, swimming (underwater; total cover)

[Morbius]

High Ref Morbius


No LOS

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 4

Actions:
5ft Step to T15.
Ready an Action to Cast Kelgore's Firebolt on LoE

End my Turn.

Stats:
Location: T15
HP:5/5
AC:17 Touch: 13 FF:14
Shield (2/10)
Spells:

Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Talic]

Awaiting LOS. Will repost request when I get home.

[Fan]

((Don't really see why people didn't want to LOS this.))

Fanboy ref

Stewie

No LOS.

Flamekin

No LOS

[Talic]

Stewie, Round 5
Water Rises.

My turn:

Voluntarily fail swim check. Sink to bottom. Now, I am weighed down (20 pounds of firewood), so I may walk across the bottom at half my land speed. As I am actually using my base speed, I should have no problem with the new movement.

Swift: Travel devotion movement: X9 to R5 (35' Movement).
Move: From R5 to K5
Move: From K5 to E8

End Turn. LOS Needed.

Stats:Location: X9, under water.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter).
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 4/10, Hide from Animals 4/600, Mirror image (2) 3/180, Holding Breath (2/32), Expeditious Retreat 2/10
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in F7 G6, Walking (underwater; total cover)

Note that total cover from water does not block LOS... Just Range attacks, and LOE from Fire spells. (Note that non-fire spells which are also range attacks are blocked, though non fire spells which are not ranged attacks, such as Magic Missile, cone of cold, and the like, are not.

[theterran]

...Still waiting on that LoS check...:smallsigh:

[Mephit]

Los:

Stewie:
No LoS

Flamekin:
No LoS

You demand, we deliver. :smallbiggrin:

[Mephit]

Update:

To avoid confusion, it is Flamekin's turn. I'm giving theterran 2 more days to post, after which he will be disqualified for not posting within the time limit.

I'm not sure about ref ettiquette in these situations, so I won't PM him personally for this. Anyone else can go ahead and warn him, of course.

[Talic]

Courtesy PM's are fine. I prefer playing matches to winning by forfeit, even if I have to do the zany adventures of Jaques Cousteau to do it.

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 5

Actions:
Ready an action to cast Sticky Floor in the square he's in IF I can discern if he's touching the ground.

End my Turn.

Stats:
Location: T15
HP:5/5
AC:17 Touch: 13 FF:14
Shield (2/10)
Spells:



Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Mephit]

LoS:

Stewie:
No LoS.

Flamekin:
No LoS.

Gee, this match is progressing slow.

[Talic]

Round 6. Water rises.

My actions:Mephit, my whole intent is to get the arena fully sunk. I want my opponent to get his feet wet. Plus, every round counts against the time on that shield spell that I'm almost 100% he has up right now. The closer that gets to expiring, the more I know he's gonna get antsy. The water, right now, is my shield. If I can get to 25 feet away, I can one shot him (fell drain a sonic snap - not affected by water, as it's not a range attack or a fire spell). If he doesn't have a shield up, I can do it from 110. But I believe he does. But we're dancing because, one way or the other, this match will be a 1 hit KO.

Stay on ground, under water.
Swift: move from E8 to D15 (35').
Move: From D15 to F21.
Move: From F21 to L21.

Done. LOS please.

Stats:Location: L21, under water.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter).
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 6/10, Hide from Animals 6/600, Mirror image (2) 5/180, Holding Breath (4/32), Expeditious Retreat 4/10
Essentia: 2/2 (uninvested)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in M20 L20, Walking (underwater; total cover)

Note that total cover from water does not block LOS... Just Range attacks, and LOE from Fire spells. (Note that non-fire spells which are also range attacks are blocked, though non fire spells which are not ranged attacks, such as Magic Missile, cone of cold, and the like, are not.

[Mephit]

Talic
Ah, Fell Drain. Is there anything it can't solve? :smallbiggrin:
However, you'll need to make a swim check to go to L21, as you'll be moving up by 3 ft.
Feel free to adjust your move based on that info.

[Talic]

@Mephit:Walking on bottom. It's the only way to get 35 feet of movement via expeditious retreat. It's RAW legal as long as I'm weighed down by 16 pounds of gear. I've got a 20 pound bundle of firewood. Yes, we've already gone over the weirdness of being held underwater by wood. The irony wasn't lost on me. :) But it's RAW legal.

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 6

Assuming No LoS:
Move Action:
I will move along the ledge to Q18 looking for Stewie as I walk.

Turn Not Done...Need LoS.

[Mephit]

LoS Broken!

Stewie is on the bottom (under water) of L21, Flamekin is standing in Q18.

It's still Flamekin's turn.

[theterran]

@Refs
Can I tell if he is standing on the ground underwater or if he's swimming?

[amazinggameguru]

@TheTerran

He is walking on the bottom

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 6 (Cont)

Ready an Action:
I will ready an action to cast "Sticky Floor" on a square he's in if he comes within range. (This spell has the same range as Sonic Snap, so if he moves in to try that...my readied action should go off before he casts it).


End my Turn.

Stats:
Location: Q18
HP:5/5
AC:17 Touch: 13 FF:14
Shield (4/10)
Spells:

Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Talic]

No movement, eh? So you're wanting to be able to 5 foot step. But why.

Swim check: [roll0] VS DC 10.

Rest of my turn contingent on that roll.

Edit: Poo.

[Talic]

Well, I'm 40 feet away, by my math... But I made a mistake in my previous post. You had to have moved. LOS was established on your turn.

Round 7, continued.

There is one thing our ref left out. The other two of me. In M20 and L20. The ones that move into my square, merging with me and becoming indisinguishable from me as I move, per the description of mirror image.

We end up again, in L21, M20 and L20.

All three of us seem to take the following actions:

Swift: Allocate Essentia. Midnight metamagic. Fell drain. Sonic Snap.
Standard: Ready an action. Cast my fell drain sonic snap if my opponent attempts to perform any action while within 25 feet of me.

Sigh. The standard action cost me 2 rounds worth of air. Sigh.

End turn. No need for LOS, we've got it.

Stats:
Location: L21, under water.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter).
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 7/10, Hide from Animals 7/600, Mirror image (2) 6/180, Holding Breath (6/32), Expeditious Retreat 5/10
Essentia: 2/2 (Invested in Midnight Metamagic - Fell drain sonic snap)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in M20 L20, Walking (underwater; total cover)

Note that total cover from water does not block LOS... Just Range attacks, and LOE from Fire spells. (Note that non-fire spells which are also range attacks are blocked, though non fire spells which are not ranged attacks, such as Magic Missile, cone of cold, and the like, are not.

[theterran]

Flamekin - Round 7

Ready an Action:
I will ready an action to cast "Sticky Floor" on a square he's in if he comes within 25ft. (This spell has the same range as Sonic Snap, so if he moves in to try that...my readied action should go off before he casts it).

End my Turn.
(The "3rd Dimension" in this map is giving me fits :smallsigh:)
Stick your head out of the water...I dare ya :smalltongue:

Stats:
Location: Q18
HP:5/5
AC:17 Touch: 13 FF:14
Shield (5/10)
Spells:

Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Talic]

Round 8. Water Rises a bit.

Swim Check: [roll0]

Standard: Ready an action. Cast my fell drain sonic snap if my opponent attempts to perform any action while within 25 feet of me.

Sigh. The standard action cost me 2 rounds worth of air. Sigh.

End turn. No need for LOS, we've got it.

Stats:
Location: L21, under water.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter).
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 8/10, Hide from Animals 8/600, Mirror image (2) 7/180, Holding Breath (8/32), Expeditious Retreat 6/10
Essentia: 2/2 (Invested in Midnight Metamagic - Fell drain sonic snap)
Spells Remaining: 5/4
Mirror images in M20 L20, Walking (underwater; total cover)

Note that total cover from water does not block LOS... Just Range attacks, and LOE from Fire spells. (Note that non-fire spells which are also range attacks are blocked, though non fire spells which are not ranged attacks, such as Magic Missile, cone of cold, and the like, are not.

[theterran]

How much Air do you have?

Flamekin - Round 8

Ready an Action:
I will ready an action to cast "Sticky Floor" on a square he's in if he comes within 25ft. (This spell has the same range as Sonic Snap, so if he moves in to try that...my readied action should go off before he casts it).

End my Turn.


Stats:
Location: Q18
HP:5/5
AC:17 Touch: 13 FF:14
Shield (6/10)
Spells:

Level 0 - Launch Bolt, Launch Bolt, Acid Splash, Acid Splash, Acid Splash
Level 1 - Swift Expeditious Retreat-x, Kelgore's Firebolt, Kelgore's Firebolt, Sticky Floor

[Talic]

Round 9, water rises.

I can hold my breath for a number of rounds equal to double my con score, but any round I take an action that doesn't count as a free or move, it costs me 2. The question you need to know to answer that is... How long was I under before I saw you?

Swim check:[roll0]

More to come.

EDIT: WOOT! I can swim!

[Talic]

I'm at elevation 7-10. The water submerges 15-20, but doesn't yet submerge 20 feet. Swimming up 10 feet will put me on the water's surface.

Swift: Still got a couple rounds of travel devotion left. Might as well use them. My three figures swim almost straight up. 10 feet. They end on the surface, L21, N20, M20.
Move: More swimming! 10 feet towards you! O20, P19, and O19.

All three of my figures should be WELL inside 25 feet, on the water's surface. if you've got that firebolt readied, you have a 1 in 3 chance of winning. But I don't think you do.

Provided none of that movement triggered a readied action...

Standard: Cast Sonic Snap. As I allocated my Midnight metamagic in a previous round, it's modified by fell drain. If it hits, you lose. If not, you've got at least a 1 in 3 on me... Two in three if you have that firebolt readied now.

Stats:
Location: O20, swimming on surface.
In Hand: Scroll (Nerveskitter).
AC: 13 (+3 Dex)
HP: 9
Saves: 3/3/2
Effects: Travel Devotion 9/10, Hide from Animals 9/600, Mirror image (2) 8/180, Expeditious Retreat 7/10
Essentia: 2/2 (Invested in Midnight Metamagic - Fell drain sonic snap)
Spells Remaining: 5/4 (4/4 after this action)
Mirror images in P19. O19, swimming on surface.

Swimming characters benefit from improved cover (per SRD) from landbound opponents.

[theterran]

Let me ask you a question, when all 3 are within 25 ft, are you swimming in the water, or walking along the bottom?

[Talic]

Swimming, of course. My very first move was straight up to the surface.

[theterran]

Next question...can you swim and cast a spell at the same time?

[Talic]

I can't see any rule prohibiting it. If you'd care to point one out, I'm all ears. They specifically allow for casting spells while underwater, so I can only assume that it's allowed.

However, if the action is not legal, and I can't cast it, I'll be happy to alter the illegal action to comply. Just point out something showing it's illegal, and I'll change it to a legal action.

[theterran]

I wasn't saying that it wasn't legal...just curious...

As long as you're above water and can do the vocal part...and are not touching the ground as you cast...then I'd say you've won...

[Talic]

I understand. I just wanted to give you the opportunity to possibly find something I've missed. Not sayin' I'm perfect, by any stretch.

Heck, I doubt I would have won if I hadn't got you on the initial swift action thing. I don't know how I'm going to beat you in the finals.

Well, I should hopefully have 2 tries.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

Stewie is the Winner!