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Talya
2008-09-20, 02:08 PM
Now that the KotOR guidebook is out (and damn, but it gives amazing options for character design), anybody share any of their character build ideas? I'm specifically looking for Jedi-types, that focus on lightsaber combat (although a bit of versatility is always a good thing.)

I have no preconceived notions other than that as to the style, be it single blade, two blades or double saber (the melee specialist PRC makes them all amazing choices), but I'm going to be joining a campaign soon and haven't really given it much thought yet.

Saph
2008-09-20, 03:35 PM
Well, my current Jedi will have the following build at level 8:

Talents: Block, Deflect, Force Intuition, Force Flow*, Soresu
Normal Feats: Force Training (4 times)
Bonus Feats: Skill Focus (Use the Force), Powerful Charge, 1 other

The idea is to get as many Use the Force rolls in one turn as possible. Each time I roll a natural 1, I get a temporary Force Point due to Force Flow, and each time I roll a natural 20, I get all my Force powers back (and since I've got 16 of them, that's quite a benefit). I've also got one level of Soldier, giving me ranged weapon proficiency.

Personality-wise the character's strongly Light-side and defensive-oriented, so the build suits her very well - it allows her to soak up huge amounts of attacks. Any blaster shots that get through the Deflect rolls have a good chance of being absorbed, since I have Negate Energy three times and Energy Resistance* as well. It means I can afford not to be aggressive and wait for the other guy to attack first, since I don't have to be too scared of a couple of shots taking me out.

- Saph

*KOTOR material

Talya
2008-09-20, 04:45 PM
Very neat...and very interesting. I am always very martial oriented, so it would never have occured to me to take force training 4 times, even over 20 levels...I tend to take feats that boost my melee abilities with a lightsaber.

Triaxx
2008-09-20, 07:48 PM
I'm not much help for edition specifics, but I have a Jedi character who uses three sabers. One in his hands, and the other two floating around him via the Force, to deflect blaster bolts, or cut down opponents at range. He's of a race I haven't had time to stat out, due to lack of information for the system.

Makes an awesome combatant, since he can defend others as well as himself.

Ascension
2008-09-20, 07:59 PM
I'm pretty much brand new at this whole Saga Edition thing, so take anything I say with a pretty huge grain of salt, but I've discovered what I think is a nice little Force power trick... Maintaining Force Whirlwind is a move action. Maintaining Force Grip is a standard action. If you successfully lead with Whirlwind one turn and throw in either another Whirlwind or (preferably) a Grip the next turn, you can keep both going as long as you can keep making your Use The Force checks. Not worth trying if you're facing a large group of opponents, but if you can manage to go one-on-one with an enemy you can do 3-10d6 damage each turn while simultaneously denying him the opportunity to do much of anything useful. And you can potentially maintain this indefinitely.

Gralamin
2008-09-20, 08:18 PM
I'm in a Saga campaign now that uses quite a bit of homebrew material (Stuff like everyone has Force Readiness as a bonus feat, the lightsaber forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84676) are feats instead of talents, You can go into Jedi Knight at your 7th level, and still be able to make a lightsaber, lightsabers can't block guns set to stun, etc.). I find my Ceren Consular/Watchman (level 10 currently) to be a lot of fun.

Stats:
STR: 8 (10 with special lightsaber crystal.)
DEX: 13
CON: 14
INT: 16
WIS: 18 (20 with special lightsaber crystal)
CHA: 17

Jedi 6/Knight 4
Trained Skills: Acrobatics, Initiative, Galactic Lore, Perception, UtF
Feats: Skill Focus (Initative) (RACE), Force Senstitivity (Class), Weapon Prof (Lightsabers), Weapon Prof (Simple Weapon), Skill Focus (Use the Force), Force Training x3, Weapon Finesse, Form 0, Form 1, Form 6.
Talents: Adept Negotiator, Force Persuasion, Block, Deflect, Vigilance (Sheltering Stance next level)
Techniques: Force Point Recovery, Improved Force Stun
Force Powers: Force Stun x3, Force Thrust, Force Disarm, Mind Trick, Move Object, Negate Energy x2, Rebuke x2, Vital Transfer, Surge x2, Battle Strike, Resist Force, Sever Force, Kinetic Combat

Its quite fun and enjoyable. He rarely uses his lightsaber, focusing more on ending a battle with as little violence as possible.


I'm pretty much brand new at this whole Saga Edition thing, so take anything I say with a pretty huge grain of salt, but I've discovered what I think is a nice little Force power trick... Maintaining Force Whirlwind is a move action. Maintaining Force Grip is a standard action. If you successfully lead with Whirlwind one turn and throw in either another Whirlwind or (preferably) a Grip the next turn, you can keep both going as long as you can keep making your Use The Force checks. Not worth trying if you're facing a large group of opponents, but if you can manage to go one-on-one with an enemy you can do 3-10d6 damage each turn while simultaneously denying him the opportunity to do much of anything useful. And you can potentially maintain this indefinitely.

You are aware that this should be getting you DSP right? Using the force to harm a living being is a moderate transgression (page 94)

Hurlbut
2008-09-20, 08:27 PM
I'm in a Saga campaign now that uses quite a bit of homebrew material (Stuff like everyone has Force Readiness as a bonus feat, the lightsaber forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84676) are feats instead of talents, You can go into Jedi Knight at your 7th level, and still be able to make a lightsaber, lightsabers can't block guns set to stun, etc.). I find my Ceren Consular/Watchman (level 10 currently) to be a lot of fun.

Stats:
STR: 8 (10 with special lightsaber crystal.)
DEX: 13
CON: 14
INT: 16
WIS: 18 (20 with special lightsaber crystal)
CHA: 17

Jedi 6/Knight 4
Trained Skills: Acrobatics, Initiative, Galactic Lore, Perception, UtF
Feats: Skill Focus (Initative) (RACE), Force Senstitivity (Class), Weapon Prof (Lightsabers), Weapon Prof (Simple Weapon), Skill Focus (Use the Force), Force Training x3, Weapon Finesse, Form 0, Form 1, Form 6.
Talents: Adept Negotiator, Force Persuasion, Block, Deflect, Vigilance (Sheltering Stance next level)
Techniques: Force Point Recovery, Improved Force Stun
Force Powers: Force Stun x3, Force Thrust, Force Disarm, Mind Trick, Move Object, Negate Energy x2, Rebuke x2, Vital Transfer, Surge x2, Battle Strike, Resist Force, Sever Force, Kinetic Combat

Its quite fun and enjoyable. He rarely uses his lightsaber, focusing more on ending a battle with as little violence as possible.



You are aware that this should be getting you DSP right? Using the force to harm a living being is a moderate transgression (page 94)Um are you aware that you need a BAB +7 before taking levels in Jedi Knight?

Talya
2008-09-20, 08:27 PM
You are aware that this should be getting you DSP right? Using the force to harm a living being is a moderate transgression (page 94)

There's some leeway there, (Using force slam to send a group of enemies flying does not necessarily earn you a force point, despite the damage done, but sending them flying off a cloud city catwalk into the high pressure depths of the gas giant below would) but generally, yes.

Gralamin
2008-09-20, 08:28 PM
Um are you aware that you need a BAB +7 before taking levels in Jedi Knight?

You didn't bother to read the preface specifically mentioning the DM Allowed this did you?

Lert, A.
2008-09-20, 08:28 PM
A lightsaber master would want:
1) Multiple lightsabers - using KotOR CG, you can use different crystal types to enhance talents or to change damage type. Even if you don't construct all of these - Force Point cost can get expensive - you have amazing versatility.

2) Block and Deflect talents - as a saber specialist this becomes a must. Redirect is good if you want some sort of ranged attack as well as melee. Throw lightsaber can be okay, but other talents can be more valuable in the long run.

3) Jedi Knight prestige class - get into this as soon as possible. The duelist and lightsaber forms talents trees really boost lightsaber melee.

Feat selection varies on however you want to build your character whether single-handed, dual-wielding, etc. but these are pretty much essentials for a lightsaber master.

AstralFire
2008-09-20, 08:29 PM
Um are you aware that you need a BAB +7 before taking levels in Jedi Knight?


I'm in a Saga campaign now that uses quite a bit of homebrew material (Stuff like everyone has Force Readiness as a bonus feat, the lightsaber forms (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84676) are feats instead of talents, You can go into Jedi Knight at your 7th level

Bolded for emphasis.

Hurlbut
2008-09-20, 08:52 PM
Bolded for emphasis.Yes but did this DM apply it to other PRCs who have 7th heroic level or BAB +7 requirement?

AstralFire
2008-09-20, 08:54 PM
Yes but did this DM apply it to other PRCs who have 7th heroic level or BAB +7 requirement?

If he didn't, would it matter? House rules are about exceptions.

Gralamin
2008-09-20, 08:54 PM
Yes but did this DM apply it to other PRCs who have 7th heroic level or BAB +7 requirement?

Yes.

At any rate. The reason why I posted it was to see a build in an actual game, and therefore see how other people go about it.

Knaight
2008-09-20, 08:57 PM
Thats irrelevant since he went into Jedi Knight anyways.

Hurlbut
2008-09-20, 08:58 PM
Yes.

At any rate. The reason why I posted it was to see a build in an actual game, and therefore see how other people go about it.I'm curious about the reasoning behind it, everyone couldn't wait to get 8th level and take it in the PRCs or what?

Gralamin
2008-09-20, 09:02 PM
I'm curious about the reasoning behind it, everyone couldn't wait to get 8th level and take it in the PRCs or what?

The reasoning? The DM just likes doing it that way, I guess. It was brought up by another player going into Crime Lord I believe, and the DM decided to declare it across the board.
Its not that big of a deal really, since in the end result of my build (Jedi 6/Knight 5/Master 5/Knight 4, same thing is being applied to Master) it means I get one less Jedi talent, and one more Jedi Knight talent.

Talya
2008-09-20, 09:02 PM
dual-wielding

KotOR finally makes this viable, however you absolutely require levels in Melee Duellist to do it. It's pretty devastating when you do, though.

Lert, A.
2008-09-20, 09:03 PM
I'm curious about the reasoning behind it, everyone couldn't wait to get 8th level and take it in the PRCs or what?

He mentioned that they could construct a lightsaber at this level. I assume that this becomes more of a rite of passage into knighthood than being able to do it as a lower-ranked Jedi and then eventually being able to become a knight later.

At least that is how my group did it. Other PrCs were then adjusted to be more balanced with Jedi Knight.

Gralamin
2008-09-20, 09:06 PM
He mentioned that they could construct a lightsaber at this level. I assume that this becomes more of a rite of passage into knighthood than being able to do it as a lower-ranked Jedi and then eventually being able to become a knight later.

At least that is how my group did it. Other PrCs were then adjusted to be more balanced with Jedi Knight.

It actually became a plot point. My character isn't even a knight yet, and he started with a vibroblade instead of a lightsaber. He is supposed to take his trials tomorrow in-game (Next Friday basically), but he is in jail right now, framed for murdering his wife, and his master is probably a Sith and masterminded the whole thing. My DM likes companions were players are hesitant to trust ANYONE, which works very well in the midsts of the Jedi Civil War.

edit: And lets stop derailling this thread. Feel free to PM me about it if you want to know more.

Lert, A.
2008-09-20, 09:10 PM
KotOR finally makes this viable, however you absolutely require levels in Melee Duellist to do it. It's pretty devastating when you do, though.

Not absolutely necessary as you say - mostly based off of feats you can get anyways - but it is useful to have.

Jedi Knight trees are generally a better PrC to enter first as they can boost the talents you will almost assuredly have picked already.

Hurlbut
2008-09-20, 09:10 PM
He mentioned that they could construct a lightsaber at this level. I assume that this becomes more of a rite of passage into knighthood than being able to do it as a lower-ranked Jedi and then eventually being able to become a knight later.

At least that is how my group did it. Other PrCs were then adjusted to be more balanced with Jedi Knight.Well actually the writeup for Jedi Knight go into more details about how you become a Jedi Knight. "a Jedi must pass a series of tests before becoming a Jedi Knight, which may be as simple as fulfilling a single important mission assigned by a Jedi master, or as complex as a series of trials to test the Jedi's mettle, ethics, and deication." So being able to build your lightsaber (which you need have only 7 heroic level, not Jedi 7) isn't the sole factor in making one a Jedi Knight.

Lert, A.
2008-09-20, 09:23 PM
Well actually the writeup for Jedi Knight go into more details about how you become a Jedi Knight. "a Jedi must pass a series of tests before becoming a Jedi Knight, which may be as simple as fulfilling a single important mission assigned by a Jedi master, or as complex as a series of trials to test the Jedi's mettle, ethics, and deication." So being able to build your lightsaber (which you need have only 7 heroic level, not Jedi 7) isn't the sole factor in making one a Jedi Knight.

Jedi was meant as a character role, not as a class. As for LS building, it was just a change made to make the Jedi appear more mature, as a 7th level character would be ready to take on more complex challenges. It was just our collective reasoning that it would be a bit more appropriate. Besides, we wanted PrCs to be just a little easier to reach.

Back on topic: melee specialists like this character benefits a lot from different duel-based talents. As such a armor-free build is better as it frees up talents for combat.

Talya
2008-09-20, 11:25 PM
Not absolutely necessary as you say - mostly based off of feats you can get anyways - but it is useful to have.


Well, the thing in saga, is Running Attack (which has no prerequisites of note) completely invalidates full round attack actions. If your opponent has running attack, you will not normally ever get to make an off hand attack (or a multiattack) against them.

Master Duellist solves this by letting you make both a primary and offhand attack as a standard action, or letting you move before making a full attack.

Ascension
2008-09-20, 11:36 PM
You are aware that this should be getting you DSP right? Using the force to harm a living being is a moderate transgression (page 94)

Then why the heck are there damaging Force powers that don't have the Dark Side descriptor?

The Jedi are entirely too gentle. Their weakness shall be their undoing.

And I'm looking into this for a greyish member of the Order of Shasa anyway. Tack on another +4 damage per turn for Waveform on one of them.

NEO|Phyte
2008-09-21, 12:27 AM
Then why the heck are there damaging Force powers that don't have the Dark Side descriptor?

Because a moderate transgression isn't a guaranteed DSP. Only Major transgressions have that honor.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-21, 02:26 AM
How isn't using your Force-enhanced lightsaber fighting skills against living beings "using the Force to harm living beings", too?

You're screwed either way, you might as well use the actual Force powers.

Gralamin
2008-09-21, 02:32 AM
How isn't using your Force-enhanced lightsaber fighting skills against living beings "using the Force to harm living beings", too?

You're screwed either way, you might as well use the actual Force powers.

If a force power deals force damage, the force is hurting the creature. If so, that is a medium transgression. A lighsaber doesn't deal force damage. Thus a lightsaber cannot trigger the transgression. Thats how I've seen it run.
Then again, you have to give everything a chance to surrender, because plain killing can give darkside points.

Tsotha-lanti
2008-09-21, 02:36 AM
Wait, is "force damage" a damage type, or what?

So if you Force Push someone, that's not using the Force to deal damage? But Force Lightning is a Dark Side power, and surely that's electricity damage...

It's a bunch of nonsense, if you ask me. It makes sense that Force Choke (a pity they conflated that into Force Grip - lifting someone into the air and holding them there does not equal crushing someone, or part of someone) and Force Lightning require negative emotions or anger to work (then again, so does the lightsaber form used by, say, Windu), which makes them Dark Side powers. "Using the Force to harm someone" is way too broad a category, and specifying it to try to justify the application just gets you into ridiculous places.

"Well, killing someone isn't as evil as killing them with a Force power." "Why?" "Because!"

Attilargh
2008-09-21, 02:49 AM
"Well, killing someone isn't as evil as killing them with a Force power." "Why?" "Because Yoda said so!"
Fixed that for you.

Saph
2008-09-21, 04:41 AM
Wait, is "force damage" a damage type, or what?

So if you Force Push someone, that's not using the Force to deal damage? But Force Lightning is a Dark Side power, and surely that's electricity damage...

No, the Force Lightning power deals Force damage.


"Well, killing someone isn't as evil as killing them with a Force power." "Why?" "Because!"

It's Star Wars. When did you last see Obi-Wan kill someone with Force Lightning or Force Grip in the movies? Using the Force to directly harm someone has always been a dark-side thing in the SW universe, and the game reflects that.

- Saph

AstralFire
2008-09-21, 06:05 AM
Wait, is "force damage" a damage type, or what?

So if you Force Push someone, that's not using the Force to deal damage? But Force Lightning is a Dark Side power, and surely that's electricity damage...

It's a bunch of nonsense, if you ask me. It makes sense that Force Choke (a pity they conflated that into Force Grip - lifting someone into the air and holding them there does not equal crushing someone, or part of someone) and Force Lightning require negative emotions or anger to work (then again, so does the lightsaber form used by, say, Windu), which makes them Dark Side powers. "Using the Force to harm someone" is way too broad a category, and specifying it to try to justify the application just gets you into ridiculous places.

"Well, killing someone isn't as evil as killing them with a Force power." "Why?" "Because!"

I think the view is called the Potentium Theory (Heresy) of the Force, there's also Unifying and Living theories. The one that says your emotions when performing the acts are much more important than the acts themselves. It's just that it's very, very easy when using the Force to directly harm someone to lose control of your negative emotions, since to a large extent, the Force feeds off of and amplifies them.

It gets some level of quiet recognition from the new Jedi Council considering that there are two known users of Force Lightning that have done so without falling. One Prequel Trilogy master who had an orange version and Luke's done a non-lethal green version of the attack once.

Talya
2008-09-21, 09:31 AM
I think the view is called the Potentium Theory (Heresy) of the Force, there's also Unifying and Living theories. The one that says your emotions when performing the acts are much more important than the acts themselves.

It's actually entirely a matter of your emotion, and not the act.

The force is not a moral judge. This is not a matter of alignment, of good or evil. You can commit genocide without falling to the dark side, so long as you can do so without the slightest twinge of anger, hatred, fear, guilt, or remorse.

The difference between the light and the dark is one of passion, rather than one of evil. The light must remain dispassionate, detached, unemotional.

There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the force.

It is not that Jedi remain emotionless, emotions are a natural part of life. But Jedi know that strong emotions, even positive ones, can easily be turned to negative ones, and with that, the darkside will flow. Emotions must be understood, and set aside, when using the force.

That being said, at the risk of mixing pop culture memes, the code is more of what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

Starbuck_II
2008-09-21, 10:18 AM
No, the Force Lightning power deals Force damage.



It's Star Wars. When did you last see Obi-Wan kill someone with Force Lightning or Force Grip in the movies? Using the Force to directly harm someone has always been a dark-side thing in the SW universe, and the game reflects that.

- Saph

But Force Negate can block damage from Force Lightning (but not the side effects of lower threshold). So is Force a type?

No, Luke used Force Grip to kill before. Obi-Wan never learned either.

Mace Windu used Force Slam to kill (Droids). I loved that battle. 1000 vs 1 and the one won.

I perfer the Jenadaari than Jedi Tradition myself. Armor + Force. Plus, they don't have the belief about the Force making you evil.

Gralamin
2008-09-21, 10:27 AM
But Force Negate can block damage from Force Lightning (but not the side effects of lower threshold). So is Force a type?

No, Luke used Force Grip to kill before. Obi-#Wan never learned either.

Mace Windu used Force Slam to kill (Droids). I loved that battle. 1000 vs 1 and the one won.

Negate Energy cannot block Force Lightning (Because Negate Energy explicitly can only be used to block something that does energy damage, such as a lightsaber). Rebuke can be used to reflect it however.

According to Wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Skywalker) Luke does not know Force Grip. He also doesn't use Force Lightning, he uses Electric Judgement (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment), which is different.

Droids aren't living beings, thus they can be hit with all sorts of effects that don't have the Dark Side descriptor.

Renegade Paladin
2008-09-21, 10:55 AM
Negate Energy cannot block Force Lightning (Because Negate Energy explicitly can only be used to block something that does energy damage, such as a lightsaber). Rebuke can be used to reflect it however.

According to Wookiepedia (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Skywalker) Luke does not know Force Grip. He also doesn't use Force Lightning, he uses Electric Judgement (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment), which is different.
Wookieepedia is wrong. Which is to be expected, as it's a wiki. Luke Force choked a Gamorrean guard in Jabba's palace in Return of the Jedi, right there in the primary canon.

SmartAlec
2008-09-21, 12:04 PM
Wookieepedia is wrong. Which is to be expected, as it's a wiki. Luke Force choked a Gamorrean guard in Jabba's palace in Return of the Jedi, right there in the primary canon.

And in the Thrawn Trilogy, he remembers how unnatural and dark it felt to do it, and decides not to do it again when faced with a similar situation.

The Force is an energy field created by life, and it connects all living things, so it does make a kind of sense that manipulating it to directly cause harm or pain to another living being is bad. Right? That's why the Jedi have their sabers - so they don't have to do that.

Note the emphasis on 'direct' cause, there. Touching the Force to allow yourself to move faster, predict events in battle and such isn't direct, so it doesn't hurt the energy field.

Ascension
2008-09-21, 12:25 PM
I really don't get how it's fine to cut a dude in two with a lightsaber but it's not fine to hurt them with the Force. So you're using life energy to kill in one instance and using plasma to kill in the other instance... it's all energy, you're just getting it from a different source.

I would be a terrible Jedi.

Of course, I would also be a terrible Sith.

I think I'll just stay here in the grey area...

Mushroom Ninja
2008-09-21, 12:26 PM
Now that Force Unleashed is out, you could use two light sabers and the new Improved Battle Strike technique for slashing goodness.

hamishspence
2008-09-21, 12:33 PM
Interesting, it was phrased in Thrawn book 1 as clouding their minds, and when he does it a second time (and he does do it) he decides: Dubious. Its the third time, when rescuing Karrde from the Chimera, that he tried to make his mind affecting power more subtle.

Which raises question: was it Force Choke, or, if you believe Thrawn book 1, was it projecting the illusion into guards minds that they were choking, and clouding their perceptions?

Saph
2008-09-21, 12:40 PM
I really don't get how it's fine to cut a dude in two with a lightsaber but it's not fine to hurt them with the Force. So you're using life energy to kill in one instance and using plasma to kill in the other instance... it's all energy, you're just getting it from a different source.

Eh, it's just the way Star Wars works, and SW Saga does its best to represent it. The Force is supposed to be a lot more than just a power source, and using it has consequences. For instance, in Saga (and other editions, if I remember right), using the Force in anger automatically gets you a Dark Side point, no matter how blameless the action.

Anyway, we're drifting a long way off the OP's initial request, so we should probably start a new thread if we're going to keep talking about it. :)

- Saph

Triaxx
2008-09-21, 08:39 PM
I've always found it stupid that Force Choke only does lethal damage. A head lock is a choke, but knocks them unconscious first.

Going back over my information of the previously mentioned character, he was originally statted with two sabers, one his and used in his hands, and the second floating around him not unlike an Ioun Stone with a larger orbit, but behaving as an animated shield, or dancing weapon. It can also be Saber Thrown without having to disarm yourself. Of course, having it lit would cost two force points or so a turn and off would be one point per turn.

turkishproverb
2008-09-21, 10:43 PM
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the force.

Correpted version of the code. Real version (earlier) is as follows:

emotion, yet peace
ignorance, yet knowledge
passion, yet serenity
chaos, yet harmony
death, yet the force.

Implying that each of these things is required to find true balance.

NPCMook
2008-09-22, 12:10 AM
Correpted version of the code. Real version (earlier) is as follows:

emotion, yet peace
ignorance, yet knowledge
passion, yet serenity
chaos, yet harmony
death, yet the force.

Implying that each of these things is required to find true balance.

To be honest this seems to be Luke's take on the old code, there were a lot of, and I do mean a lot of restrictions using the old code. If you think about it would Anakin have fallen to the Dark side so easily if he hadn't been denied the right to love?

Now more on topic, I had planned on making a Telekinetic Lightsaber Combatant

Human Jedi 7/Melee Duelist 5/Jedi Knight 4

BAB: +16

Feats:
1: Rapid Strike, Force Training
2: Weapon Focus (Lightsaber)
3: Dual Weapon Mastery I
4: Weapon Finesse
6: Dual Weapon Mastery II, Melee Defense
9: Improved Rapid Strike
12: Double Attack
15: Dual Weapon Mastery III

Powers*:
Kinetic Combat

Force Technique*:
Improved Kinetic Combat

Talents:
1: Deflect
3: Block
5: Weapon Specialization (Lightsabers)
7: Damage Reduction 10
8: Dual Weapon Flourish I
10: Master of Elegance
12: Dual Weapon Flourish II
13: Greater Weapon Focus (Lightsabers)
15: Greater Weapon Specialization (Lightsabers)

* Pretty much just showing the powers and technique needed.

Improved Kinetic Combat allows you to wield up to 3 weapons with your mind, Using Dual Weapon Flourish II you may now make a Double Rapid Strike attack as a standard action with 2 of your 3 sabers(of course, you can have upwards to 5 if you wield 2 in your hands!) and still have the swift action to maintain the kinetic combat and not have all your sabers fall to the ground...

Mushroom Ninja
2008-09-22, 06:48 AM
To be honest this seems to be Luke's take on the old code, there were a lot of, and I do mean a lot of restrictions using the old code. If you think about it would Anakin have fallen to the Dark side so easily if he hadn't been denied the right to love?

Now more on topic, I had planned on making a Telekinetic Lightsaber Combatant

Human Jedi 7/Melee Duelist 5/Jedi Knight 4

BAB: +16

Feats:
1: Rapid Strike, Force Training
2: Weapon Focus (Lightsaber)
3: Dual Weapon Mastery I
4: Weapon Finesse
6: Dual Weapon Mastery II, Melee Defense
9: Improved Rapid Strike
12: Double Attack
15: Dual Weapon Mastery III

Powers*:
Kinetic Combat

Force Technique*:
Improved Kinetic Combat

Talents:
1: Deflect
3: Block
5: Weapon Specialization (Lightsabers)
7: Damage Reduction 10
8: Dual Weapon Flourish I
10: Master of Elegance
12: Dual Weapon Flourish II
13: Greater Weapon Focus (Lightsabers)
15: Greater Weapon Specialization (Lightsabers)

* Pretty much just showing the powers and technique needed.

Improved Kinetic Combat allows you to wield up to 3 weapons with your mind, Using Dual Weapon Flourish II you may now make a Double Rapid Strike attack as a standard action with 2 of your 3 sabers(of course, you can have upwards to 5 if you wield 2 in your hands!) and still have the swift action to maintain the kinetic combat and not have all your sabers fall to the ground...

Ooh, I like that! Now, for just a little extra fun add in Improved Battle Strike for an extra 3d6 damage on each attack.

NPCMook
2008-09-22, 10:20 AM
Ooh, I like that! Now, for just a little extra fun add in Improved Battle Strike for an extra 3d6 damage on each attack.

Not 100% sure if Rapid strike would work with the Kinetic combat, and Battle Strike surely wouldn't work since feats and talents that enhance the use of the weapon's do not work. However; all the weapons are threatening the adjacent enemy and can make OoA, so Combat Reflexes wouldn't be bad to add in there!

You can move a single weapon each turn up to 6 squares, as your move action, if you move it 6 squares you have to spend a Standard action maintaining Kinetic Combat. So technically you can move your sabers around holding back 3 enemies, but this also means they can take swings at your sabers... I'd say a Normal Lightsaber would technically be small giving it a DR of 5, and 2 hp with a 12 DT. So I don't know how different GMs would handle dealing with attacking your Lightsaber, giving them a 10 Reflex, or what I would do since the power uses CHA to attack with the weapon give them a Reflex of 10 + one-fourth your heroic level + CHA mod

Talya
2008-09-22, 12:02 PM
Note on that build: Master of Elegance (melee duellist tree) does not apply to lightsabers, only "light melee weapons." Feats or talents that apply to both (EG: Weapon Finesse, Dual Weapon Flourish) specifically state Light melee weapons and Lightsabers.

I don't think this is an oversight...Ataru is the form that does the same thing for lightsabers, but it doesn't help you qualify for other Melee Duellist talents. I'm thinking I only want a single level of duellist, really.

NPCMook
2008-09-22, 01:17 PM
Note on that build: Master of Elegance (melee duellist tree) does not apply to lightsabers, only "light melee weapons." Feats or talents that apply to both (EG: Weapon Finesse, Dual Weapon Flourish) specifically state Light melee weapons and Lightsabers.

I don't think this is an oversight...Ataru is the form that does the same thing for lightsabers, but it doesn't help you qualify for other Melee Duellist talents. I'm thinking I only want a single level of duellist, really.

Its not I wanted it, its that I needed it to get Flourish II, which allows you to make the Double Attack a Standard action instead of the Full Round Action

Hzurr
2008-09-22, 02:44 PM
To be honest this seems to be Luke's take on the old code, there were a lot of, and I do mean a lot of restrictions using the old code. If you think about it would Anakin have fallen to the Dark side so easily if he hadn't been denied the right to love?


I wouldn't blame that as much on the code, but rather on sand. It's rough, and coarse.

On a side note, I haven't had a chance to check out the KotoR book, although I hear good things. Are there any new races in it?

NPCMook
2008-09-23, 01:08 AM
Many

FOCL.

Uin
2008-09-23, 01:24 AM
Note on that build: Master of Elegance (melee duellist tree) does not apply to lightsabers, only "light melee weapons." Feats or talents that apply to both (EG: Weapon Finesse, Dual Weapon Flourish) specifically state Light melee weapons and Lightsabers.

I don't think this is an oversight...Ataru is the form that does the same thing for lightsabers, but it doesn't help you qualify for other Melee Duellist talents. I'm thinking I only want a single level of duellist, really.

Rodney popped on the boards to say it does, due to the combined feats pages weapon finesse line. Unfortunately, the book doesn't actually say what he wants. While I love Saga, it is full of errors.:smallredface: