Why don't the gods interfere?

[Wreckingrocc]

I'm sorry if this question has been asked/answered somewhere else, but why don't the gods interfere if it's their own safety at risk here? Thor, for example, could easily just smite Xykon. Why doesn't he? The Snarl can easily kill Thor, but it has yet to be fully released. You'd think the gods would be more concerned for their own safety. Even if they can't just smite someone, they can send warriors from their domain to kill Xykon, or they could grant someone like Durkon their full power.... Why haven't they interfered?

[Enlong]

We've never actually seen the gods have any kind of physical hand in Wold 2.0 (or 1.0, for that matter) It's probably assumed that they can't do anything on that kind of micro sca-... wait. There was that comic where Thor fought some fire giant in a human village.

I really don't know, then...

[Heroic]

Me neither... but maybe teh Giant is reserving that for a final end where:

teh OOTS party (including Roy) will fight the Snarl together with the Gods and will finally defeat it. In this battle V will achieve ultimate power through some other Gods and Belkar will die in battle. This will happen in the last day of this comic year

Or maybe they're just afraid because the Snarl has killed Gods before.

[Warren Dew]

The gods may not be aware of what's happening. The order of the crayon seems to have neglected to notify them that rifts appeared.

[Forealms]

[sic] Belkar will die in battle [sic]

I thought it had been generally agreed upon that Belkar would die in come event that ended with Roy being raised :smallconfused:

Or maybe I just dreamed about that. But it seemed like a good idea.

[chiasaur11]

The gods may not be aware of what's happening. The order of the crayon seems to have neglected to notify them that rifts appeared.

Probably because then they might destroy the world.

Not ideal.

[FujinAkari]

The snarl was -created- because the Gods were too active in the world and kept altering the threads of fate. They have now created a vow between the survivors -never- to actively alter the course of events. If the Snarl is released... it will destroy the world... but it couldn't find them the first time, it won't find them this time, as long as they're careful.

[Wreckingrocc]

But it's not powerful yet. They can safely defeat it right now with 0 risk. Besides, Thor fought Surtur. I think that qualifies as interfering; besides, the snarl is much more of a threat than Surtur.

[Amarsir]

I'm sure this will all be explained at some point when Redcloak needs another lampshade.

[Querzis]

But it's not powerful yet. They can safely defeat it right now with 0 risk.

Hum no, they quite obviously cant defeat the Snarl. Thats kinda the whole point. Or do you mean they could seal the rift?

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html

The gods cant do anything about the Snarl except build a new prison for him...which would destroy the world. Bottom line is no, they cant fight the Snarl at all. But could they smite Xykon? Considering how much Thor got in trouble just for helping durkon when he was in the land of the twelves gods, I think its safe to say they cant fight mortal directly and I can easely see why. I mean, if one would, everyone would start to do it and then they would destroy the world by fighting each other anyway. If Thor start to smite Xykon, whats keeping every other gods from smiting their enemies?

We saw Thor fight Surtur specifically because Surtur is a god-like being who can only be fought by gods. I mean, it was always Thor job to fight this guy in the first place.

[TigerHunter]

Short Version: Because that would make for a boring story.

Long Version:
There are several possibilities.

It may be that the gods are omniscient, and know that they're not needed because they've already read OotS up until the final strip. Thor would have fought Surtur because either a. he thought it would be fun b. Surtur had already personally involved himself in the matter, so that made Thor coming down to do the same fair game or c. they're both in Ysgard (or some other heaven) and not the material plane.

It may also be that the gods know that if push comes to shove, they can simply destroy the world to prevent the Snarl from being unleashed. (Note that this would still accomplish the Dark One's goal, so it doesn't render the entire plot irrelevant.) They haven't intervened yet because they've made the deal not to, and are thus content to allow the current world to fight it out and try to come through this alive. If the OotS fails, though, the world will go poof. See above for why Thor was able to fight Surtur.

[David Argall]

The gods are not united. They don't agree on what to do, nor how to do it. and based on past experience, arguments among them strengthen the Snarl. So as long as they can hope the situation is not going to get out of hand, they prefer to leave it alone. They have made agreements among themselves to prevent dangerous contact, not to mention cheating, and have to stand off a lot.

[Mauve Shirt]

I thought it had been generally agreed upon that Belkar would die in come event that ended with Roy being raised :smallconfused:

Or maybe I just dreamed about that. But it seemed like a good idea.

Nothing is ever "generally agreed upon" on these boards. :smalltongue: I've actually never heard that theory.

The gods can't fight the snarl, they can only remake the prison and destroy the world. And interfering with Xykon and the Order would cause more arguments.

[CasESenSITItiVE]

assuming, of course, that they're actually aware of what xykon & co.s plans actually are. though they seem to have a pretty good view of the big picture, and they can tell what they're clerics are up to, i don't think they know about everything that's going on at that very moment. they are probably aware that the villians are up to something, as they've been doing some pretty big things, but i don't think the gods have the kind of time to run around smiting every evil mortal on the earth, hence heroes and clerics

[SPoD]

Pretty much the only thing the gods can do against the Snarl is destroy the world and remake it. And that's not an ending that anyone on the Prime wants (except Redcloak, actually).

Now, as far as to why they don't mess around in events leading up to the Snarl being released, well, they made an agreement not to. They made a pact (shown in SoD) to only influence the world through their clerics/paladins/druids/etc. They can bend that in their geographical domain (North, South, or West), but it still seems pretty limited. And that's a good thing, because if they all start trying to act directly, they may make the Snarl stronger--or worse, make a second one!

As I see it, the gods are more afraid of strengthening/recreating the Snarl by quarreling than they are of the entire world being destroyed, as long as it doesn't get them. If the OOTS fails, the gods will just go, "Oh well, time to make World 3.0. This time, let's go with a cyberpunk theme."

[Crystalkestrel]

The replies to this thread miss the point. The webcomic is based on D&D. The next time you're fighting the Big Bad, ask your DM if the gods can smite it for you because that's the kind of thing they do.

[Kraggi]

That's a pretty big theological question man, I don't think I'm nearly qualified enough of a theologian to answer.

[SPoD]

The replies to this thread miss the point. The webcomic is based on D&D. The next time you're fighting the Big Bad, ask your DM if the gods can smite it for you because that's the kind of thing they do.

If you are fighting something that the gods definitely know about AND is a direct physical threat to their existence, you SHOULD ask your DM why the gods haven't smote it yet. If he or she is a good DM, they'll probably have an answer.

It's a basic suspension-of-disbelief scenario; it's why published adventures in Forgotten Realms always answer the question of "Why didn't Elminster just kill this guy?".

[Wreckingrocc]

The replies to this thread miss the point. The webcomic is based on D&D. The next time you're fighting the Big Bad, ask your DM if the gods can smite it for you because that's the kind of thing they do.See, but in this case, the gods themselves are in danger of the BBEG.

I haven't read SoD, so I wouldn't know about the pact.

[disorder]

Nothing is ever "generally agreed upon" on these boards. :smalltongue:
I disagree.

[blakyoshi7]

This question has been asked of every story where gods exist, and the fate of the world hangs in the balance due to Some Badguy's evil schemes.

In other words, quite a lot.
The answer is usually "Because there wouldn't be a story".

In this case, however, I'm pretty sure it's already been explained: The Snarl is trapped inside the world. The only way for it to get out- or to get it out- is destroying the world.

I'm pretty sure the gods would rather not resort to that.

[AceOfFools]

The pact in SoD specifically is not to interfere with other gods domains (pun intended), explicitly to avoid divine arguments. They can screw around as much as they want in their own realm.

However, that makes Redcloak safe, being a member of the race that falls under the Dark One's dominion. And considering the substantial investment of goblin and now hobgoblin lives the Dark One has put into Xykon over the years he might count as well.

After all, if Xykon dies, all those goblins would have been martyred for nothing.


I disagree.

In awe I stand before you, both humbled and shamed.

[Lord Seth]

This question has been asked of every story where gods exist, and the fate of the world hangs in the balance due to Some Badguy's evil schemes.

In other words, quite a lot.
The answer is usually "Because there wouldn't be a story".

In this case, however, I'm pretty sure it's already been explained: The Snarl is trapped inside the world. The only way for it to get out- or to get it out- is destroying the world.

I'm pretty sure the gods would rather not resort to that.It's true that they can't get rid of the Snarl without destroying the world, but I don't see why they couldn't just kill Xykon and/or Redcloak. I mean, it is their very existence that's at stake.

The only explanation I can see is that maybe The Dark One would object to that, but I don't think he could stand up to all of the other gods by himself.

[T-O-E]

No challenge, no plot. No plot, no fun.

[Kurald Galain]

There was that comic where Thor fought some fire giant in a human village.

That probably wasn't in the Prime Material Plane, then.

[NerfTW]

I'm pretty sure the reason is because A) smiting Xykon would reveal that there's some massive, god threatening artifact in Azure city, which kind of defeats the whole "secret" part of the rifts.

And B) If they take a direct role in the mortal world, then there's nothing stopping the Dark One from simply doing the same thing and taking over a gate himself.

[Querzis]

It's true that they can't get rid of the Snarl without destroying the world, but I don't see why they couldn't just kill Xykon and/or Redcloak. I mean, it is their very existence that's at stake.

No their existence is not at stake. At worse they'll just create a new world. Its the world thats at stake here not them.


The only explanation I can see is that maybe The Dark One would object to that, but I don't think he could stand up to all of the other gods by himself.

Not just the Dark One. If one god break the pact and kill a mortal, every other gods will want to do the same thing! Which can only lead to the gods fighting among themselve which is how the Snarl was created in the first place. The gods are a lot more concerned about the possibility of strengthening or creating another Snarl then by the world getting destroyed. They'll just make a new one.

Please remember that the OOTS gods created entire race for the sole purpose of getting killed by adventurers. They are jerkass, they dont care about the world and the mortals.

[Spiryt]

Not just the Dark One. If one god break the pact and kill a mortal, every other gods will want to do the same thing! Which can only lead to the gods fighting among themselve which is how the Snarl was created in the first place. The gods are a lot more concerned about the possibility of strengthening or creating another Snarl then by the world getting destroyed. They'll just make a new one.

Please remember that the OOTS gods created entire race for the sole purpose of getting killed by adventurers. They are jerkass, they dont care about the world and the mortals.

I agree. Every story when gods can just kill some mortal without any repercussions, terms, or so, tend to be lousy (of course there are exeptions!).

Just beacuse - what's the point of good guy/evil guy who is strong, smart, and have influence on the fate of his vilage, his world, or just something, if gods can just zzap him and go back to have lunch?

[Zolem]

In this case, however, I'm pretty sure it's already been explained: The Snarl is trapped inside the world. The only way for it to get out- or to get it out- is destroying the world.

I'm pretty sure the gods would rather not resort to that.

I would like to point out that the gods also took a pact of non-interferance, and that in order to trap the Snarl if it get's loose, they are willing to 'remake the prison', aka World 3.0, followed shortly thereafter by world 3.5 to correct some fnctionality errors. The Gods don't want to make a new world, but if the Snarl was lose, they'd just go "Darn, I liked that world. Oh well, hey let's try superheores this time."

[Lamech]

Contains details from SoD...
I like the idea that Redcloak is protected by the Dark One, and the influence the Dark One was given. Or maybe the evil gods want the world to be destroyed and remade with the Dark One getting a say. A third possiblity is that the gods don't consider a bunch of people dieing that big a deal. I mean they can just go "Dear a hundred thousand good people got killed, I better go throw a welcome to heaven party." Although I am betting that even the gods don't quite know the full extent of the Dark One's plan. I think that even if it meant breaking some rules, they would try to team up and swarm the Dark One

[chibibar]

This is my personal view on the matter (and my gaming group)

The gods are powerful BUT they are not "all powerful" there are some magic in the world that the gods can't use or wield. The OoTS have shown us that human magic CAN contain the snarl without destroying the world (via the gates) the gods couldn't do that (or not know how... not sure which)

Also the gods are not omniscience (all knowing) either. The gods might have some rules that they cannot interfere unless specifically ask for it (i.e. casting spells or scrolls like Durkon did) but they can't ask the god to smite someone (I guess Durkon could if he has that spell)

There is also a chance that the gods is not sure what would happen if they just randomly smite someone. There is a thread of fate and chain of event to consider. Sure as readers we know more since we get to read from all side, but the gods do not have that luxury :) (well maybe)

at least that is how I see it.

[Lowkey]

There is clearly something as yet undefined precluding it. Recall that Tiger reprimanded Thor in 453 for aiding Durkon. Though depending on how you read it, either Tiger was mad at his stepping in this time, or Thor interfered at another point in the past that they won't let him live down.

[LuisDantas]

That scene isn't very clear on its meaning. At first glance the "one time" seems to be the granting of Thor's Might to Durkon, but it obviously happened before and after, so one must assume there are special circunstances involved. Something involving the gate, presumably.

If I had to guess, I would say that the twelve gods are probably worried that a god could use the Snarl to his own ends if he came close enough to it.

[hamishspence]

Not Thor's Might, but that ridiculously souped up Control weather: remember Durkon has no trouble using Thor's might right now.

[LuisDantas]

That one in #352-353, I suppose. Might be.

[mago]

actually, why don't they? they cant go outside their sphere of influence, (north or south or whatever) but why the hell haven't the souther gods smithen Redcloak and Xycon to smithereens? perhaps they cant interfeere whith redcloak due to him bieng the dark one's sphere, but xykon at least?

[T-O-E]

Perhaps, but then we'd be watching "The pantheon of the stick". Only lasted one comic, during which Kubota, Xykon, Redcloak, Samantha, Miko, Bandit-guy and Qaar are all destroyed, in a single panel. The others involves the god's celebration.

[David Argall]

actually, why don't they? they cant go outside their sphere of influence, (north or south or whatever) but why the hell haven't the souther gods smithen Redcloak and Xycon to smithereens? perhaps they cant interfeere whith redcloak due to him bieng the dark one's sphere, but xykon at least?

Basic reason: Because then we wouldn't have a story.

In strip excuse: The gods are scared of the Snarl, with good reason, and know that arguments among them strengthen it. Accordingly, they have an agreement among them that sharply limits what they can actually do in OOTS world. They can't/won't agree that Xykon is an exception that merits ignoring this agreement because they know that will just lead to all sorts of other "exceptions", which in turn will cause the agreement to break down and the Snarl to get out for real. They believe that the worst that will happen with Xykon is that they will have to remake the world, which is presumably a chore, but of no real danger. But interfering to stop him could cause the Snarl to be truly liberated, which could kill all the gods. Better to just let Xykon play around and hope.

[NerfTW]

Actually, going back, I forgot, the god's DON'T know that the Snarl can be controlled in the manner the Dark One is intending. They have no idea that the gates are going to be used against them, just that the Dark One is sending his followers to secure it. For all they know, the Snarl will just attack the mortals, they run off and make a new world to contain it.

There's no reason for the gods to interfere any more than they would interfere in any other "I want to rule/destroy/nuke the world" plot.

[Spiky]

No their existence is not at stake. At worse they'll just create a new world. Its the world thats at stake here not them.



Tell that (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0274.html) to the Eastern Gods.

[Ron Miel]

First of all, the gods aren't in any danger. Xykon wants to rule the world, not destroy it (unless he gets really bored). This plan involves controlling the gates, not releasing the snarl. If he actually tries to release it, then they might intervene.

As for why they don't intervene to stop him generally, that is a deep question that philosophers have been pondering for thousands of years, without coming to any provable conclusions. Here are a few ideas:

1) Free will - people are supposed to be able to make a moral choice between good and evil. If the gods intervened to stop evil, then people would not be able to make the choice, and free will would be meaningless. Free will also includes the choice to fight against evil, or to accept it. If the gods didn't allow evil, then there would be nothing to fight against. Again, no moral choices to make, and hence no free will.

2) The gods need heroes in order to inspire the people generally to worship. You can't have good heroes without good villains to fight.

3) The gods want people to act for themselves, and not rely on the gods to do things for them. The gods provide people with the spells, and then leave them to do the rest themselves.

4) if Thor intervened directly, then it would give The Dark One an excuse to intervene directly too. The world would become a battleground for gods. Better for everyone if they each give their clerics some spells, and let them fight it out.

[dehro]

If you are fighting something that the gods definitely know about AND is a direct physical threat to their existence, you SHOULD ask your DM why the gods haven't smote it yet. If he or she is a good DM, they'll probably have an answer.

yup....but something makes me think that the answer, at some points will contain dragons.


First of all, the gods aren't in any danger. Xykon wants to rule the world, not destroy it (unless he gets really bored). This plan involves controlling the gates, not releasing the snarl. If he actually tries to release it, then they might intervene.
while I second your other points and am of the opinion that the gods mainly don't intervene because it would make for bad storytelling and end the oots tale too soon, I do have to disagree with what you say here..
what you state is Xykon's plan... but the gods, supposedly, know more than he does and would realize that powerful he might be, but at some point he's bound to blunder and loose control over the Snarl...and by that time it might be too late for them to intervene..

[NerfTW]

yup....but something makes me think that the answer, at some points will contain dragons.


while I second your other points and am of the opinion that the gods mainly don't intervene because it would make for bad storytelling and end the oots tale too soon, I do have to disagree with what you say here..
what you state is Xykon's plan... but the gods, supposedly, know more than he does and would realize that powerful he might be, but at some point he's bound to blunder and loose control over the Snarl...and by that time it might be too late for them to intervene..

Except that they don't care about needing to remake the world. The only reason the Snarl was successful in it's first attack was the element of surprise. Now that they know it's in there, they can simply run away when it awakens, unmake reality, and remake it again, possibly without the tears in reality.