Kaiyanwang
2008-09-21, 09:43 AM
Alright… I have some question.. (with a short introduction)…
I started a Gestalt campaign some time ago and after a while one of my friends asked to join. He likes to play warrior-like characters, so started to look for a class good to be combined with the fighter (class features + feats).
The campaign I run is Gestalt but I don’t allow too much class and prestige class combination: “pick up two classes, and have fun with them”. I keep the power level of the whole campaign low, PC advance slower than normal but works fine until now. Players can generally use all the material from a Wotc book and from Dungeon and Dragon Magazines, few exceptions.
I always help my players in the built of their characters because I can suggest a feat or class they don’t know, to keep campaign flavor and so on. Talking with my friend I discovered he likes A LOT the concept behind the Fighter , the trained warrior (how good the fighter ACTUALLY is, it’s another issue).
My player asked me a way to obtain a lot of fighter feats, and my first answer was Fighter + Psywarrior, but he doesn’t like psionics so much. I worked on it for a while, then I combined Fighter, Rogue and Unearthed Arcana to obtain this (I think you may know it –at least, the “feat rain”- but to be sure I show it).
Level / BAB / Fort / Ref / Will / Class features
1 / +1 / +2 / +2 / +0 / Fighter Bonus feat x2, Poison Use
2 / +2 / +3 / +3 / +0 / Fighter Bonus feat, Deflect Magic Rays
3 / +3 / +3 / +3 / +1 / Fighter Bonus feat , Dodge Rays +1
4 / +4 / +4 / +4 / +1 / Fighter Bonus feat, Uncanny Dodge
5 / +5 / +4 / +4 / +1 / Fighter Bonus feat
6 / +6 / +5 / +5 / +2 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +2
7 / +7 / +5 / +5 / +2 / Fighter Bonus feat
8 / +8 / +6 / +6 / +2 / Fighter Bonus feat, Hero
9 / +9 / +6 / +6 / +3 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +3
10 / +10 / +7 / +7 / +3 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
11 / +11 / +7 / +7 / +3 / Fighter Bonus feat
12 / +12 / +8 / +8 / +4 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +4
13 / +13 / +8 / +8 / +4 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
14 / +14 / +9 / +9 / +4 / Fighter Bonus feat
15 / +15 / +9 / +9 / +5 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +5
16 / +16 / +10 / +10 / +5 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
17 / +17 / +10 / +10 / +5 / Fighter Bonus feat
18 / +18 / +11 / +11 / +6 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +6
19 / +19 / +11 / +11 / +6 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
20 / +20 / +12 / +12 / +6 / Fighter Bonus feat
HD: d10.
Simple and Martial Weapons Proficency, Light, Medium, Heavy Armor Proficency, Shields and Tower shield Proficency.
Skill Points: 8+int/level, (8+int)x4 first level
Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex).
These are the ideas linked to the class features, and how I obtained them, no homebrew.
Half of the Gestalt is the standard Fighter. The other half is a heavily modified rogue. First, I used the sneak attack – fighter bonus feat substitution in UA, and considered all the level 10,13,16,19 rogue special abilities more bonus feat (as the Rogue rules say). This should represent the superior Fighter training yadda yadda yadda like the PH, but MORE.
20 levels, 32 feats. I hope my friend is happy now.
Since in the party there are a Rogue and a Beguiler too, I wanted screw trapfinding, expecially because I considered it not too much “warrior-ish”. I looked for a different class feature, and I decided for Poison Use, Rogue alternative class feature (Drow of the Underdark). Heavy (maybe) armored guy + poison could work, IMO, see Blackguard. I could imagine an honorable warrior deserving the poison use only against honorless, coward enemies not really trained in the noble art of the blade, like spellcasters, elusive feys, beasts, and so on .
Uncanny Dodge is good for this kind of PC (Barbarian, Warblade). One could say that the quickness of the reaction could be related more to a superior training, instead of instinct, luck or so.
At level 8 I placed the feature “Hero”. This means a choice, related to the personal training of the warrior: he can choose to obtain Improved Uncanny Dodge, since is so expert in the use of the weapons that he can keep at bay enemies even when they completely surround him, or an immunity to dragons’ Frightful Presence and a +4 bonus against other fear effects (Uncanny Bravery, Rogue and Barbarian alternative class feature, Dragon Magic). I think this could be a good hook for Dragon Slayer feats, and could represent well the lion heart of the trained warrior.
Finally, to show the special training of this warrior against the aggressive magic, I screwed Evasion (to “push” a little toward the heavy armors) and I added Deflect Magic Rays, (Spell Reflection from Complete Mage). If a magic ray misses the warrior, he can throw it to the original spellcaster. Dodge Rays (Spell Sense, instead of Trap Sense, Complete Mage too) can do some help, since raises the AC against touch spell of the amount shown. Since the warrior fight a in a world filled of magic, could have sense that elaborates something to fight magic. And this could be an hook (fluff or crunch) for the Mage Slayer feats. And/ or Slippery Mind.
Further, the high amount of skill points could bring to choose several Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel. The high reflex save is plausible for an athletic guy I think.
All of this to build a Fighter, after all, with some features more, and more feats. A skillful, trained, cunning, versatile melee combatant able to keep a monster at bay, hide in the shadow and garrote an enemy by surprise, show his supremacy with swords and bows, protect the door behind a tower shield, intimidate a demon, lead a diplomatic mission. More or less trained in his arms and his mind against the perils of the magic world out of there. Able of use a lot of weapon and devices, maybe craft them.
My questions are:
1- What do you think about the class? Standing the tastes of my player (more feat = more fun), and the level of the campaign (gestalt, but not so much power level focus on trade and craft, mercantile guild wars and so on, medium-magic), would worth? Is too bad? Too good? Too medium? It’s a trap (class features > a lot of feats)?
2- What do you think about the fluff behind the rules? Has the whole thing coherency, sense, consistency? Or I left a sense of an artificial “made-up”? Suggestions about that?
3- Third question is not a question, is an imploration. I think the names I used for the class features are kinda crappy. Ideas about them?
4- Same as (3), but about the name of this guy. Cannot find one that satisfy me. Lord of Battle? Slayer? Warlord (no 4th edition connection)? Reaper? Maestro d’Arme (Weapon Master)? Yamabushi? Singh? Barkilaka? *sigh* pls help me..
Thank you,
K.
I started a Gestalt campaign some time ago and after a while one of my friends asked to join. He likes to play warrior-like characters, so started to look for a class good to be combined with the fighter (class features + feats).
The campaign I run is Gestalt but I don’t allow too much class and prestige class combination: “pick up two classes, and have fun with them”. I keep the power level of the whole campaign low, PC advance slower than normal but works fine until now. Players can generally use all the material from a Wotc book and from Dungeon and Dragon Magazines, few exceptions.
I always help my players in the built of their characters because I can suggest a feat or class they don’t know, to keep campaign flavor and so on. Talking with my friend I discovered he likes A LOT the concept behind the Fighter , the trained warrior (how good the fighter ACTUALLY is, it’s another issue).
My player asked me a way to obtain a lot of fighter feats, and my first answer was Fighter + Psywarrior, but he doesn’t like psionics so much. I worked on it for a while, then I combined Fighter, Rogue and Unearthed Arcana to obtain this (I think you may know it –at least, the “feat rain”- but to be sure I show it).
Level / BAB / Fort / Ref / Will / Class features
1 / +1 / +2 / +2 / +0 / Fighter Bonus feat x2, Poison Use
2 / +2 / +3 / +3 / +0 / Fighter Bonus feat, Deflect Magic Rays
3 / +3 / +3 / +3 / +1 / Fighter Bonus feat , Dodge Rays +1
4 / +4 / +4 / +4 / +1 / Fighter Bonus feat, Uncanny Dodge
5 / +5 / +4 / +4 / +1 / Fighter Bonus feat
6 / +6 / +5 / +5 / +2 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +2
7 / +7 / +5 / +5 / +2 / Fighter Bonus feat
8 / +8 / +6 / +6 / +2 / Fighter Bonus feat, Hero
9 / +9 / +6 / +6 / +3 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +3
10 / +10 / +7 / +7 / +3 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
11 / +11 / +7 / +7 / +3 / Fighter Bonus feat
12 / +12 / +8 / +8 / +4 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +4
13 / +13 / +8 / +8 / +4 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
14 / +14 / +9 / +9 / +4 / Fighter Bonus feat
15 / +15 / +9 / +9 / +5 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +5
16 / +16 / +10 / +10 / +5 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
17 / +17 / +10 / +10 / +5 / Fighter Bonus feat
18 / +18 / +11 / +11 / +6 / Fighter Bonus feat, Dodge Rays +6
19 / +19 / +11 / +11 / +6 / Fighter Bonus feat, Bonus Feat (any)
20 / +20 / +12 / +12 / +6 / Fighter Bonus feat
HD: d10.
Simple and Martial Weapons Proficency, Light, Medium, Heavy Armor Proficency, Shields and Tower shield Proficency.
Skill Points: 8+int/level, (8+int)x4 first level
Class Skills: Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (local) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), Use Rope (Dex).
These are the ideas linked to the class features, and how I obtained them, no homebrew.
Half of the Gestalt is the standard Fighter. The other half is a heavily modified rogue. First, I used the sneak attack – fighter bonus feat substitution in UA, and considered all the level 10,13,16,19 rogue special abilities more bonus feat (as the Rogue rules say). This should represent the superior Fighter training yadda yadda yadda like the PH, but MORE.
20 levels, 32 feats. I hope my friend is happy now.
Since in the party there are a Rogue and a Beguiler too, I wanted screw trapfinding, expecially because I considered it not too much “warrior-ish”. I looked for a different class feature, and I decided for Poison Use, Rogue alternative class feature (Drow of the Underdark). Heavy (maybe) armored guy + poison could work, IMO, see Blackguard. I could imagine an honorable warrior deserving the poison use only against honorless, coward enemies not really trained in the noble art of the blade, like spellcasters, elusive feys, beasts, and so on .
Uncanny Dodge is good for this kind of PC (Barbarian, Warblade). One could say that the quickness of the reaction could be related more to a superior training, instead of instinct, luck or so.
At level 8 I placed the feature “Hero”. This means a choice, related to the personal training of the warrior: he can choose to obtain Improved Uncanny Dodge, since is so expert in the use of the weapons that he can keep at bay enemies even when they completely surround him, or an immunity to dragons’ Frightful Presence and a +4 bonus against other fear effects (Uncanny Bravery, Rogue and Barbarian alternative class feature, Dragon Magic). I think this could be a good hook for Dragon Slayer feats, and could represent well the lion heart of the trained warrior.
Finally, to show the special training of this warrior against the aggressive magic, I screwed Evasion (to “push” a little toward the heavy armors) and I added Deflect Magic Rays, (Spell Reflection from Complete Mage). If a magic ray misses the warrior, he can throw it to the original spellcaster. Dodge Rays (Spell Sense, instead of Trap Sense, Complete Mage too) can do some help, since raises the AC against touch spell of the amount shown. Since the warrior fight a in a world filled of magic, could have sense that elaborates something to fight magic. And this could be an hook (fluff or crunch) for the Mage Slayer feats. And/ or Slippery Mind.
Further, the high amount of skill points could bring to choose several Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel. The high reflex save is plausible for an athletic guy I think.
All of this to build a Fighter, after all, with some features more, and more feats. A skillful, trained, cunning, versatile melee combatant able to keep a monster at bay, hide in the shadow and garrote an enemy by surprise, show his supremacy with swords and bows, protect the door behind a tower shield, intimidate a demon, lead a diplomatic mission. More or less trained in his arms and his mind against the perils of the magic world out of there. Able of use a lot of weapon and devices, maybe craft them.
My questions are:
1- What do you think about the class? Standing the tastes of my player (more feat = more fun), and the level of the campaign (gestalt, but not so much power level focus on trade and craft, mercantile guild wars and so on, medium-magic), would worth? Is too bad? Too good? Too medium? It’s a trap (class features > a lot of feats)?
2- What do you think about the fluff behind the rules? Has the whole thing coherency, sense, consistency? Or I left a sense of an artificial “made-up”? Suggestions about that?
3- Third question is not a question, is an imploration. I think the names I used for the class features are kinda crappy. Ideas about them?
4- Same as (3), but about the name of this guy. Cannot find one that satisfy me. Lord of Battle? Slayer? Warlord (no 4th edition connection)? Reaper? Maestro d’Arme (Weapon Master)? Yamabushi? Singh? Barkilaka? *sigh* pls help me..
Thank you,
K.