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View Full Version : What's the lowest level you've ever used to get a class "banned"?



theMycon
2008-09-22, 12:22 PM
Sometimes we all do things so off-the-wall, maybe crazy, maybe clever, maybe incredibly stupid that the DM just says "there's no reason that won't work, and it doesn't technically hurt that plot... but never do it again." Sometimes your same character does it so many times, using talents that make his party role, that the DM asks you to stop being clever. You point that out to him in a hurt voice, he points out the damage you've done, you apologize profusely and agree to retire your character but not your ideals, and he says "Fine. But you will never play a ____ again in my campaigns."

I've managed to do this with every core class except fighter*. It was never (except in case of the druid) even related to being too powerful. They were mostly middling power for the party, a few below, a few above. Simply being too powerful is dull, and it doesn't feel as classy as "you rolled a nat 20 on your idea," plus anyone can repeat it once they see it done. A specialized build is more on-key, but again they're repeatable, and if the build gets too far from the norm the class will (probably) remain unbarred. I specialized in using class features, in ways they're supposed to be used, following either rules or strict logic. Low-level spells seem to be the easiest for this.

Please share your favorite stories. And if you have any ideas for the fighter, even vague ones, keep quiet. I wanna figure this one out on my own.

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My Two favorites

"The Incredible Rave Wizard Incident", wherein my level 4 bard Suggested to a major enemy (8 or 9 something martial) he had undiagnosed epilepsy, and used cantrips to convince him to retreat... but the DM gave him a seizure instead, because we were apparently supposed to fight him instead of retreat (I class this as "his own darn fault").

My wildshaped druid (6, I think) pretending his animal companion was a shapechanged wizard (via produce flame & a great bluff roll) and he himself was merely the familiar.

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I've got a goal that I should be able to do this with any class by level 5, since once you get higher your powers just too unpredictably broad. Unfortunately I've only been able to go lower with bard & barbarian, and the latter required some uncommon equipment.




*I came close once with a fighter-dervish... he sent us up against 6 folk with wands, I had improved sunder and won initiative. He just shook his head, hit it on the table, and added a level to each. I had quick draw and a few poisoned daggers... but that's getting too unlikely a build/equipment combination for my own tastes. I decided to save that for an emergency situation when the DM wasn't already annoyed.

nagora
2008-09-22, 12:25 PM
My wildshaped druid (6, I think) pretending his animal companion was a shapechanged wizard (via produce flame & a great bluff roll) and he himself was merely the familiar.
That's good :smallsmile:

AstralFire
2008-09-22, 12:31 PM
I never have. I usually optimize defensively, which generally goes entirely unnoticed unless we enter a near-TPK situation.

averagejoe
2008-09-22, 12:44 PM
*I came close once with a fighter-dervish... he sent us up against 6 folk with wands, I had improved sunder and won initiative. He just shook his head, hit it on the table, and added a level to each. I had quick draw and a few poisoned daggers... but that's getting too unlikely a build/equipment combination for my own tastes. I decided to save that for an emergency situation when the DM wasn't already annoyed.

I've never understood why DM's should get frustrated by stuff like that. Setting aside for the moment that you've just destroyed a bunch of valuable equipment, as a DM I've always been thrilled when my players find creative ways to solve problems, even if they end up totally destroying encounters.

Anywho...

One game (my first campaign, as a matter of fact, probably the 2-3rd game) I was playing a horc barbarian, who ended up being the melee powerhouse in a party with a rogue, cleric, ranger, fighter, and paladin. I'd annoy the DM by just walking into traps and soaking them up, using my high HP (I had been consistently getting more than ten on my HP roll, and his con was 17, improved to 18 at level four, if I remember correctly.) Of course, the DM and most of the players seemed pretty bad at optimization, even considering this was my first campaign (of course, this was several of theirs' too) so owning the game wasn't so much a product of me having a really clever build, but being a one eyed man in the land of the blind, as it were.

arguskos
2008-09-22, 12:46 PM
Uh, I was playing a dwarf cleric of Gond once who managed to ace some craft (invention) checks and use smokepowder to create a high-powered explosive (we called it the "medieval C-4"). I never got to take craft (invention) ever again. >_>

-argus

theMycon
2008-09-22, 01:23 PM
Setting aside for the moment that you've just destroyed a bunch of valuable equipment

Metagame knowledge there- most of the group had encountered them before. They mopped the floor with the party, knocking out or dropping to <10% HP all but one of 'em before anyone could act in round two, killing one. I was off with the then-ally wizard (PC) who turned coat and became their boss, so it was same matchup as before, except +1 PC to each side.

The wizard had basically made me his slave for six sessions, so I wasn't about to risk him beating me in a fight. A few times my WbL be damned, I have my pride and I won't risk 'em killing more allies when it took three months to get us all in party.

averagejoe
2008-09-22, 01:43 PM
Metagame knowledge there- most of the group had encountered them before. They mopped the floor with the party, knocking out or dropping to <10% HP all but one of 'em before anyone could act in round two, killing one. I was off with the then-ally wizard (PC) who turned coat and became their boss, so it was same matchup as before, except +1 PC to each side.

The wizard had basically made me his slave for six sessions, so I wasn't about to risk him beating me in a fight. A few times my WbL be damned, I have my pride and I won't risk 'em killing more allies when it took three months to get us all in party.

No, I wasn't questioning your decision, I just mean that it seems doubly unreasonable to get frustrated when your victory, essentially, depended on paying a whole buncha money to win. I was confused by the DM's reaction; what your guy did sounds totally kickass.

FMArthur
2008-09-22, 03:03 PM
Being too awesome is my greatest weakness. Every day is a struggle.

arguskos
2008-09-22, 03:07 PM
Another story:

I was playing an elven wizard (yes it's probably a trope, but **** it, I LIKE elven wizards) in a high-powered 3.5 core game. The DM specifically TOLD me to break the game, if I thought I could. Basically, this was a challenge between the DM and the players as to who could break the universe better. At level 17.

By the end of the first session, I had abused Gate, Time Stop, and some other idiocy so hard that the DM warped in the ENTIRE good-aligned pantheon to try and stop me. They took me down, after I managed to kill off Heironous, Moradin, Corellion Latherian, and severely wound Pelor. It didn't help that he didn't understand salient divine abilities, but they were still monstrously powerful.

I didn't get to play a wizard again in any of his games. :smallannoyed:

-argus

Arbitrarity
2008-09-22, 03:09 PM
Level 1. Psion with a "Railgun", which ended up being a weapon with a cone effect, when you throw in enough ammo. Normally just a weak crossbow.

Then we added a warforged Artificer. Minor personal enhancement (or whatever that infusion was), read: Bane. After blowing through encounters at +8 to hit every enemy in a 15ft cone, dealing 3d6+2 damage on a hit, the psion and railgun spontaneously disappeared due to quantum physics.

Of course, I still think the warforged should have won the optimization there. AC 21 and DR 2/adamantine at level 1? Yes please.

Worira
2008-09-22, 04:18 PM
Level 1 Druid in 3.0. Dog was better than the fighter. Next level, deinonychus. Dire bear at 6. Alternately, 4 rats per level.

Curmudgeon
2008-09-22, 05:02 PM
Level 1 Barbarian with the Complete Champion Lion Totem variant that provides Pounce. Even with only one iterative attack, adding a second attack from dual lances on a full attack, despite the TWF penalties (-4 to both attacks, fully countered by Rage and the charge bonus), was just too devastating.
If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance. Losing the fast movement bonus is no hindrance at all for mounted combat.

I suppose a rule that says Pounce doesn't apply when mounted would fix this, but by RAW it's your charge attack(s), not your mount's. 2d8 damage from each hand (or 6d8 on each critical), plus 2 x (STR mod + 2) is quite a lot at level 1.

Saph
2008-09-22, 05:23 PM
Level 1-2 in my case. I wasn't even trying to be overpowered, I was just playing a Warblade. I think what tipped the scales was when my Level 2 character more or less soloed a templated advanced monster that worked out to CR 5 or 6 or so. For the curious, the story is here:

Warblade vs. Cryo-Grick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70610)

The DM ended up (basically) killing the character by fiat and then banning ToB from all future games. Not much fun.

- Saph

The_Werebear
2008-09-22, 06:40 PM
Due to a slight misunderstanding on the DM's part of the Sunder rules, my friend nearly got fighters banned.

The player was sundering natural weapons. The rest of us thought the DM was allowing it as a house rule and didn't comment. He didn't know about it and thought we would have spoken up if he was doing it wrong.

Suzuro
2008-09-22, 07:44 PM
...wow...a lot of this stuff is awesome...I think the coolest thing I've done was with my barbarian...who ate the town guards armor.....while he was wearing it. Our DM was cool about it "What?! I had my grocery list on that! What am I supposed to get? Milk, butter? A Chicken?! I don't know!"

-Suzuro

Frosty
2008-09-22, 07:56 PM
Level 1-2 in my case. I wasn't even trying to be overpowered, I was just playing a Warblade. I think what tipped the scales was when my Level 2 character more or less soloed a templated advanced monster that worked out to CR 5 or 6 or so. For the curious, the story is here:

Warblade vs. Cryo-Grick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70610)

The DM ended up (basically) killing the character by fiat and then banning ToB from all future games. Not much fun.

- Saph

Your DM is teh suckage in this area then :smallmad:

Inhuman Bot
2008-09-22, 08:01 PM
Ate his armor? How?!

Eldritch_Ent
2008-09-22, 09:04 PM
Your GM is probably the kind who doesn't have a good night unless it's a total party TPK. He's also probably a member of the TTP Project. I'm just sayin. :P

Play a Wizard and batman the crap out of him if he keeps complaining about Warblade being overpowered. Go through every class until the entire party is left with nothing but the bottom of the barrel- AKA CWar Samurais and monks.

Yahzi
2008-09-22, 11:26 PM
I got my Necromancer banned before the game started. I guess I shouldn't have explained how Leadership + 20 1st lvl priests + 20 Scrolls of Animate dead = 800 skeletons.

:smallbiggrin: