Help Optimize this Gestalt Hobo!

[Aneantir]

The other day, a friend of mine approached me. He says to me "I'm starting a gestalt campaign in the near future, starting at level 7, and the party so far is shaping nicely, but they lack a fighter type character. Figure you could fill the position?"

To which I reply, "That depends. Would living in a cardboard box violate the Fist of the Forest primal living class feature?" He said it didn't, and thus I decided to play a random homeless guy, which was originally intended for a typical game.

Couple things about the campaign:
As I said, starts at level 7. It's also 32 point-buy, and the books available are limited to the Races series, the Complete series, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, Unearthed Arcana, and Core, and to top it off theres no penalties for multiclassing.

What I'm looking to do with this character is make him as durable as possible without wearing armor. I'm trying to get fairly high AC as well as lots of health. I've got the concept down, so I'm just trying to make sure the character is functional as well as fun to play at this point.

What I've got so far is as below, but my stats are still up in the air (although, I'll probably end up with an 18 into Con). Any help you can give me will be very much appreciated:


Class progression:
Progressing barbarian fully for the d12 hit dice and for the sake of rage, and I've taken the feat rogue variant since I needed disguise and bluff as class skills to access chameleon on time.

Barbarian 1//Rogue 1
Barbarian 2//Rogue 1/Fighter 1
Barbarian 3//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 1 (Dwarf)
Barbarian 4//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 2
Barbarian 5//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3
Barbarian 6//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 1
Barbarian 7//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 2
Barbarian 8//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3
Barbarian 9//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 1
Barbarian 10//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2
Barbarian 11//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 1
Barbarian 12//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 2
Barbarian 13//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 3
Barbarian 14//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 4
Barbarian 15//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 5
Barbarian 16//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 6
Barbarian 17//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 7
Barbarian 18//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 8
Barbarian 19//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 9
Barbariab 20//Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Stoneblessed 3/Fist of the Forest 3/Deepwarden 2/Chameleon 10



Feat progression:
Everything here is for prereqs, except Improved Toughness. After the 9th level feat I'm not entirely sure where else to put them.

Human: Able Learner
Feat Rogue: Improved Unarmed Strike
1: Power Attack
3: Great Fortitude
6: Endurance
9: Improved Toughness

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Is there a reason you're not going Barb/Fighter//Unarmed Swordsage/Fist of the Forest?

[Hal]

Drunken Master seems like it would be appropriate for this concept, though I'm not sure where it would fit into your build.

[Telonius]

This idea is made of awesome. The idea of an "Epic Hobo" screams "Horizon Walker" to me, though that probably wouldn't be the most optimized character. Personally I'd allow some sort of altered Vow of Poverty for this.

[Aneantir]

Is there a reason you're not going Barb/Fighter//Unarmed Swordsage/Fist of the Forest?

Tome of Battle isn't allowed since the DM doesn't own the book. :smalltongue:
But thanks. I asked him about it when he first talked to me about it.

[Eldariel]

You really should use Feat Rogue and Monk over Fighter on the other side, simply because you already get full BAB, Fort-saves and higher HD from the Barb-size so Fighter offers absolutely nothing those classes don't give, and Monk gives you IUS and another feat for free, and Evasion + feat at 2, while Feat Rogue has much larger skill list, much more skill points one feat on 1 and 2 and Evasion and Trapfinding.

Either way, I'd build this character as a Druid. That would just frankly make you better at the frontline and give you spellcasting to fix up any problems you may encounter. It'd have a lower HD, but a Druid//Monk (or Unarmed Swordsage)/Fist of the Forests/Deep Warden maxing Wisdom and Wildshaping into something really big with Con has huge AC, all good saves, Evasion (you could dip Pious Templar for Mettle too), and maybe a bit less HP, but still plenty. Then just pick up Spell Resistance through the spell by the same name, dip Cloistered Cleric, go around DMM: Persisting all your cool buffs (like Spell Resistance, Superior Magic Fang and so on) and go to town. Really, just maxing out your Con and Wis will give you all you need as Wildshape takes care of the remaining physical stats, and you have Wis to AC + Con to AC twice (+Dex to AC as per normal) and probably large amounts of Natural Armor, making 60+ a breeze with some spell-use.

And Druid has the tie to the "living in a box"-part. You could give up Animal Companion though. And if Wildshaping feels to violate the spirit, there're the ACFs that allow you to pump stats instead.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Didn't think of that, you could go Barb//Monk/Fist of the Forest, with other dips for taste.

[Aneantir]

You really should use Feat Rogue and Monk over Fighter on the other side, simply because you already get full BAB, Fort-saves and higher HD from the Barb-size so Fighter offers absolutely nothing those classes don't give, and Monk gives you IUS and another feat for free, and Evasion + feat at 2, while Feat Rogue has much larger skill list, much more skill points one feat on 1 and 2 and Evasion and Trapfinding.

Either way, I'd build this character as a Druid. That would just frankly make you better at the frontline and give you spellcasting to fix up any problems you may encounter. It'd have a lower HD, but a Druid//Monk (or Unarmed Swordsage)/Fist of the Forests/Deep Warden maxing Wisdom and Wildshaping into something really big with Con has huge AC, all good saves, Evasion (you could dip Pious Templar for Mettle too), and maybe a bit less HP, but still plenty. Then just pick up Spell Resistance through the spell by the same name, dip Cloistered Cleric, go around DMM: Persisting all your cool buffs (like Spell Resistance, Superior Magic Fang and so on) and go to town. Really, just maxing out your Con and Wis will give you all you need as Wildshape takes care of the remaining physical stats, and you have Wis to AC + Con to AC twice (+Dex to AC as per normal) and probably large amounts of Natural Armor, making 60+ a breeze with some spell-use.

And Druid has the tie to the "living in a box"-part. You could give up Animal Companion though. And if Wildshaping feels to violate the spirit, there're the ACFs that allow you to pump stats instead.

Actually, I'd prefer to stay out of druid. I'm trying to avoid spellcasting if I can help it, and the Chameleon class was only really in there for Ability Boon and Mimic class feature for Evasion.

However, Monk was something that had completely slipped my mind. I'll check with my DM to see if I'm able to progress it and Barbarian at the same time, but he's fairly lenient on these things so I don't think it would be a problem. So, thanks to everyone who mentioned Monk, which I had so blatantly overlooked :P


and you have Wis to AC + Con to AC twice (+Dex to AC as per normal)

This, however, is not entirely accurate. The Deepwarden class feature that gives me Con to AC replaces Dex to AC.

As for the Horizon Walker and Drunken Master ideas, I might drop Chameleon for Drunken Master. It'd give me an excuse to be a dwarf rather than human, so I'd fit the role of alcoholic bum quite well.

Horizon Walker doesn't have the mechanics I'm looking for, but if I can convince my DM to let me advance 2 prestige classes at once I'll definetly take it over the last 10 levels of Barbarian.

[MammonAzrael]

I'd say this idea is a prime candidate for a Vow of Poverty Druid//doesn't matter! :smallbiggrin:

What? You did say you wanted it optimized! :smalltongue:

[Asbestos]

Since when can't humans be alcoholic bums? at least you wouldn't have to be drunk in a Scottish accent. Thought of a half-orc hobo? Outcast of society and all that.


I'm awful at optimizing stats... but I think I can help optimize the flavor. :smallsmile:

Base classes:

Barbarian/Urban Ranger (UA) with the Champion of the Wild variant class feature from Complete Champion so as to eliminate spell casting.

Suggested PrCs:
Reaping Mauler (CW) for the 'crazy, gonna mess you up' type of hobo
Avenging Executioner (CS) 'crazy, gonna cut you' hobo
Beastmaster (CA) has some very minor spellcasting, could be good for a 'has given up on humans and turned to the animals of the streets' type of hobo
Bloodhound (CA) for the vigilante hobo
Streetfighter (CA) for the street-hardened hobo
Urban Soul (RoD) my personal fave, you are the 'spirit of the city', its chosen defender, you do fine as a hobo because just being in an urban area provides you with sustenance. Awesome.

Drunken Master would be great if you could get it... but, not a big fan of the monk level myself.

Feats: depends on the PrCs
Mobility feats from CS might be a nice touch

Weapons: Get some gauntlets/equivalent (brass knuckles, chain wrapped around hand) or some shivs (daggers) or lead pipes (clubs)

[Flickerdart]

Cancer Mage or Vermin Lord would fit flavour-wise. Both are from Book of Vile Darkness, and imagining a hobo Lord is pretty funny, regardless of what kind of Lord it is. Maybe you could dual-progress it with Master of Flies (Savage Species) and Beastmaster for the ability to control untold hordes of sickly minions. Now you've gone from hobo to super-villain hobo. Have fun.

[Rei_Jin]

A gestalt hobo huh?

Well, I'd look at the following as an idea.

Barbarian4/Fist of the Forest3//Monk4/Ninja3

Pick up Ascetic Stalker as your level 6 feat, level 1 is Great Fortitude and Power Attack, level 3 is whatever you like (Extra Rage?)

Now you can disappear from view like a hobo, your attacks count as magical (good for DR purposes), and you can run really, really fast.

Sounds like a fun hobo to me.

[monty]

Thought of a half-orc hobo? Outcast of society and all that.

Drunken half-orc hobo (http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Drunken_half-orc_hobo)? Even better!

[Adumbration]

For a race, I would suggest Mongrelfolk. +4 to Con, and even the fluff fits pretty nicely.

[quillbreaker]

The Deepwarden class feature that gives me Con to AC replaces Dex to AC.


Which book do I have to pay 25 dollars for to get access to that piece of awesome?

[TiaC]

Which book do I have to pay 25 dollars for to get access to that piece of awesome?

It's online here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=4