OOTS #595 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Lira]

YES! This is why I love V.

[Eldritch Knight]

'Disintegrate.' 'Gust of Wind.' That's four words. Perhaps this is the path to ultimate power?

[FoE]

Whuh ...? :smalleek:

[Morty]

That was... abrupt.

[doliest]

That...that was truly epic in scope.


Although I will miss Kubota, as I liked him.

[Spiryt]

I wonder how he had blown the armor away.

Anyway, this is probably the best solution of Kubota problem.

No man, no problem. :smalltongue:


V is the Stalin's disciple!!!

[BRC]

I did NOT See that coming. On the other hand, Kubuto deserved it like no other.

[Heliomance]

Question: If V has been getting as little sleep as has been implied, then how is (s)he been preparing new spells?

[Slamexo]

Congratulations V, you've just made my list of favourite stick figures!

[Oracle_Hunter]

Man, was I wrong. Props to the folks who foresaw V doing just this.

...okay, Gust of Wind was a nice touch :smallbiggrin:

Trivia Question: what prestige class did the late Lord Kubota have?

[larnman2]

And that class, is how you stop a side quest from going to long.

[RMS Oceanic]

I think V just voiced an underlying current of opinion in the community. :smalltongue:

Also, loved Elan's face of pure shock/horror.

[Frosty]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

[Matuse]

Ok, now THAT was pure awesome.

There does come a time when following the "rules" just gets in the way of things being done properly. Subtlety is for losers.

Hmm, but they really should have saved that +5 armor that he was wearing instead of letting it get gusted overboard. Heh.


Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

There was nothing unLawful about that, although it may have been illegal. Being Lawful does not mean following the laws! Why is it that every time an OotS character gets a stern look on their face, everyone immediately makes claims about drastic alignment changes? That is NOT the way it works! Geeze.

[AlterForm]

Maybe we'll get to switch back to Roy or Haley?

[thestarvingpoet]

V has attained new levels of awesome. That will have me smiling for the rest of the day!

[A Bus]

I think V might be my favorite character now. Nice move Giant, for the first half of the strip I was groaning and thinking, "Oh boy, he escaped again, now it will take another 100 strips to catch him"...and then awesome ensued. Very nicely done.

[Renegade Paladin]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/RenegadePaladin/Owned/Owned-truck.jpg

[lordofthe_wog]

What, what?

Yeah, took me a second to realize what the hell had just happened.

[malakim2099]

Well, there are definite advantages to being True Neutral/Unaligned. :smalltongue:


'Disintegrate.' 'Gust of Wind.' That's four words. Perhaps this is the path to ultimate power?

Don't think so. They need to be said to the right person at the right time for the wrong reasons. I don't think, from a neutral standpoint, that this would be considered "wrong". Depends on Elan and Durkon's reactions.

[Terraxos]

Wow. That was... awesome. OOTS seems to be sticking to the traditional D&D class system, where the higher level you get, the more and more the wizard becomes the most vital member of the party...

Can't help but think V might be due some sort of comeuppance one of these days, though. S/he is starting to get a little too fond of hir own power.

[SPoD]

I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.

I mean, yeah, it ended the problem of Kubota, but I think the problem of Vaarsuvius is just beginning.

[Jher'c Kelborn]

Awesome. Just... epic.

[Sampi]

V, you are my hero. Again.

[nimby]

Beats OJ's trial for sure.

[Linkavitch]

(cough) wow. . .
THAT WAS AWESOME!
deep breath. . .

[chiasaur11]

Wow.

Didn't see that one coming.

[Watchdog]

Oh my God.

I did NOT expect that at all. I thought Elan would kill him.

I guess this teaches us one thing: NEVER interfere with V's research.

[Fafnir13]

Definitely a neutral act. True neutral, perhaps.
While part of me is quite glad that V nipped that trial in the bud, the other part is cringing at what is to come and poor Elan is going to be caught in the middle.

[arkwei]

V for the win!

[holywhippet]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

I'd say either neutral good or chaotic good. V knew what needed to be done and simply did it. It wasn't following the letter of the law as Azure City would have it, but it was an appropriate action.

Despite a lack of rest, this shows V is still a clear thinker. It was the best, most expedient method of dealing with a pest.

[Mythlor]

Rich, excellent work!

Remind me not to stand in V's line-of-sight... ever.

Is V starting to rival Redcloak or Xykon?

[Lunaya]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v350/RenegadePaladin/Owned/Owned-truck.jpg
YES! Go V! <3

[BlueHelmet]

looks like V had a whole can of concentrated awesome this morning.

nice one!

[Douglas]

Too bad V blew away all that valuable AC boosting equipment along with the pile of dust. Is anyone going to try retrieving it?

Not that it matters any more, but I wonder if Kubota had accounted for the possibility of Speak With Dead with Therkla. No cost but a single day of waiting for Durkon to prepare it, and they'd get 6-7 questions of Therkla's body for which fooling lie detection isn't even an issue.

[TigerHunter]

I am editing the Crowning Moment of Awesome entry on TVTropes as we speak.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

I did NOT See that coming. On the other hand, Kubuto deserved it like no other.


I agree. Just goes to show you that for every trick you have, someone has a counter for it.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, there are definite advantages to being True Neutral/Unaligned. :smalltongue:



Don't think so. They need to be said to the right person at the right time for the wrong reasons. I don't think, from a neutral standpoint, that this would be considered "wrong". Depends on Elan and Durkon's reactions.
Of course it's wrong. This is going to spark a civil war among the remnants of Azure City. That doesn't mean it wasn't awesome and well overdue, but this is going to cause no end of trouble.

Of course, there'd be no end of trouble with him alive, but this is going to be more immediate. :smallyuk:

[Helios Sunshard]

:smalleek: did v just... *reads strip again* yup, he did...

[Lyinginbedmon]

There is no way V is getting away without a charge of murder for this one, killing a noble in (apparently) cold blood will certainly not be a crime he can dodge.

V is definitely getting way too obsessed with solving his communication puzzle.

[Imrahil]

{Clears throat}

Rock.

That is all.

[Ramien]

*cries at the thought of all the magical items V just blew overboard*

Good thing Haley's not around, or she'd be taking a swim after all that treasure.

[chiasaur11]

I agree. Just goes to show you that for every trick you have, someone has a counter for it.

And sometimes...
You find you were playing "Chutes and Ladders" while your foe was playing TF2.

Not pretty.

[Lira]

There is no way V is getting away without a charge of murder for this one, killing a noble in (apparently) cold blood will certainly not be a crime he can dodge.But V got rid of all the evidence and Elan is the only other witness (I think), so who's going to know?

[Bayar]

Well, Belkar wasnt there for the obligatory random kill. So V stepped in and did one of the most badass things in the comic.

Now I will have to prepare Gust of Wind to blow the reamins of my disintegrated foes next time I play a wizard :tongue:

[TheBST]

It really comes to something when Varsuvius of all people is tired of intellectual cat-and-mousery. Though I read V's last line as though (s)he was about to burst into tears, which made it hysterical.

Question now is is the strip done with Qarr? Will he dissappear except for a gag or two like the Hotel assassins or become a regular evil like Tsukiko?

Well something consequential to the overall plot has to come of all this nonsense!

[malakim2099]

Of course it's wrong. This is going to spark a civil war among the remnants of Azure City. That doesn't mean it wasn't awesome and well overdue, but this is going to cause no end of trouble.


Hehehe. Well, I was referring in terms of the prophecy than anything else.

Though I think it's going to be interesting to see where it goes from here. But yeah, V could be in some trouble here... and actually, now that you mention that, it might be the right motivation to cause him to leave on his own. It isn't really like the others could stop him at the moment.

And then he researches the Snarl on his own, and figures out how the gates work, and how to control them... oh, dear.

[Flickerdart]

Anticlimactic solution, thy name is Rich Burlew. :smalltongue:

[SPoD]

There is no way V is getting away without a charge of murder for this one, killing a noble in (apparently) cold blood will certainly not be a crime he can dodge.

I think we are going to see V assuming that Elan will lie to cover his/her tracks. Right now, Elan is the only witness that Kubota is even dead.

I further think that V is WRONG to assume that Elan will cover his/her tracks when asked by Hinjo, or at least he will be highly conflicted about it.

[chiasaur11]

But V got rid of all the evidence and Elan is the only other witness (I think), so who's going to know?

Elan.

And he is honest.

Probably wouldn't come up, but...

[Wreckingrocc]

THANK you.

[chibibar]

A-W-E-S-O-M-E!!!!!!

I love V. that Kutoba totally deserve that. Sadly, what he said is true. The trial would totally break the Azure citizen's loyalty and more than likely cause a civil war.

[Seonor]

Fascinating. I cannot help but notice that the desintegrated remains of a noble are indistinguishable from those of a human, or a halfling, or a dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html).

[xelliea]

go job V, die kubota

[Pronounceable]

Alas, poor Kubota...

He was right, you know. He would've walked free from all this.

[Edea]

Praise Jesus. Go, V, go.

[Robert_Frazer]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

I dreaded this sort of outcome over the last few strips, and now that it's arrived, it's as drearily anticlimatic as expected.

This sort of ending doesn't only destroy a promising future plotline, it also actively taints and spoils everything leading up to it - Burlew is in effect openly conceding this entire sub-plot's ultimate irrelevance with such a perfunctory ending that directly admits the plot's incidental nature. This corrupts the memory of several dozen comics with a deflating sense of purposelessness.

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

[Paragraph]

Mwahahahahahaha.

That's how problems are solved, all right, don't let those pesky "laws" get in your way. So much going on there. The Stick is broken in more and more parts - V now certainly has alienated Elan, already has Durkon, if not for the amnesia, Belkar would already be thrown out (and Roy knows why!), the only two really bonded together by love are separated by miles upon miles...

Now, V's character is coming through more and more - I was bit confused over all those small appearances, what was the larger picture? Now it's clear: V is just the ultimate pragmatic. Solves the problem? No? So forget about it. Distraction? Get RID of it. And no second thoughts.

Probably no second thoughts about that armor, too - V didn't know that it was +5, after all. And I think his "gust of wind" was not just to kick a fallen (crumbled to ashes, more) foe further - this served a purpose, or V wouldn't have done it. Most likely, there's a plan already formed up a sleeve here how no further distractions stemming out of lawful stupidity (in V's eyes) can arise...

Or V is just too arrogant to realize that they WILL try to find someone guilty for this death, even if it was a deserved one...I'm hooked.

Simon

[pendell]

I think V just voiced an underlying current of opinion in the community. :smalltongue:



QFT. It certainly was mine, and I haven't been shy about it.

Story-mode: THANK YOU, Giant! The arc is OVAH! Kubota got his (though not the way I'd have preferred -- I don't like cold-blooded murder). But yes, V definitely speaks for me.

Although I have no doubt in my mind that this was planned all along and not a result of fan pressure. Ever since the last big AC trial which took panels and panels -- I think the Giant meant to tease us with the possibility, then do the abrupt end.

And now let the alignment arguments begin!

IMO, V's action -- cold-blooded murder of a prisoner -- was unquestionably an evil act.

I think it's clear that V is some variant of neutral. He has shown a great deal of compassion to others in the past (see: when Elan wanted to be a wizard and V helped him back up after hurting his feelings) -- but he has always done exactly what he believed was necessary without regard to the damage it would inflict on others (see: commanding a black dragon to eat any member of the party who disobeyed him). That to me bespeaks neutral. Probably lawful neutral, I would guess.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Oracle_Hunter]

The only problem V has to worry about now is how to account for the disappearance of Lord Kubota. Even if the lone ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0592.html) doesn't testify (likely, since ninjas are probably not generally admissible in court :smalltongue:) someone is going to wonder what happened to Lord Kubota, and considering Elan's well-known feud (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0503.html) with Lord Kubota, suspicion is likely to fall on him... and the Katos won't even be able to testify in his defense (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0594.html)!

So either the OotS get exiled somewhere very soon on suspicion of murder (likely, and V would not object), or V has to keep killing people who notice that ey is killing people... and those plans never end well (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20031017). :smallbiggrin:

[afroakuma]

Not even fair how epically awesome that was.

[Starbuck_II]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

Totally Nuetral Evil. Was it a good idea? Sure.

Was it a morally correct act? No.

Was it awesome? Yes.

Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons can still be evil.

Note, that one act like that isn't going to push V to evil. Maybe nudge him, but he has done good in the past so I doubt it anytime soon that he will become evil.

[Rhuna_Coppermane]

Oh my. One more for the "didn't see that coming" column. I laughed out loud in appreciation, though.

[Mauve Shirt]

OH MY 12 GODS

I am so glad V did that.

[Rogue 7]

And sometimes...
You find you were playing "Chutes and Ladders" while your foe was playing TF2.

Not pretty.

I don't care about the context, that is sig'd.



:smalleek:Wow. Didn't see that coming.


Can't say I'm with V on this one. Perhaps I'm a bit too Lawful good for my own health, but I can't help feeling that Kubota would not walk away from this. Three witnesses, two of whom were nobles. A corpse readily accessible for "speak with dead", which I presume Durkon can use. Dead minions wearing Kubota's gear and whose names were no doubt registered somewhere. All the evidence on the ship he didn't get a chance to destroy. I somehow doubt pinning this on the minion would work.

[Dacia Brabant]

So can I get a No-Prize (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4944195#post4944195)? :smallwink:

I did think there'd be more collateral damage than this though, but destroying evidence of the murder is pretty evil still.

And yes, "Disintigrate" + "Gust of Wind" = the right four words territory.

The right being: Kubota deserved it, he's a cretin and needed to die.
Right place/time: after Kubota reveals how he's going to hoodwink the justice system and prolong his criminal activities.
The wrong reasons: V killed him to move on to the main plot (read this especially those who asked for the same thing), not out of any sense of justice or desire to avenge Therkla.

V's Start of Darkness unfolds, and he's cheered for it. Awesome.

[Swordguy]

For Mr. Burlew and V:

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n294/wolffe42/orsonclapping1.gif

@ alignment pedants: True Neutral means you can take evil actions on occasion.

[Rad]

LOOOOOLLL!!!!

what? V and the others will just leave the boats, end of the story. they were going to do that sooner or later anyway.

[Fanatic-Templar]

Am I the only one who sees the parallels with the previous capture of Nale, Thog and Sabine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html)?

But really, I have a hard time faulting Vaarsuvius here. Sometimes idealism will just end up with getting struck on the other cheek.

Not that this will ever keep me from trying. :smalltongue:

[Nevitan]

ah V, reasserting hir role as my favorite character, and its probably gonna make Roy happy that V is still on the Xykon campaign line.

[Jenx]

Ok, I'll admit I didn't really like this whole plot with Kabuta and the half-ork ninja assassin that's in love with Elan and so on, but Gods, this comic made up for all of it. Several times over!

[Ruduen]

Hoo, boy. I doubt many people are going to complain about the results, and that Gust of Wind's going to make resurrections near impossible. Still, hope V doesn't catch any backlash for doing that. I doubt that a lot of people would complain with the results, but law is really tricky there, it seems.

[Johel]

*Read the comic*
Kubota, you Magnificent Bastard !! You WILL get away with murder, you son of a toffu !! And you're bragging about it !! Poor Elan and poor Therkla, that's not fair and... :smallfurious:

"Disentagrate" ?:smallconfused:
*See V*

*Blank mind during 2 Veeeeeeeery long seconds.*

Oh my F*** God !! :smalleek:

*See V cast his wind spell*

What ? So no ressurection ? So he DID think it all over ?
It's just... Ok, now, at least, we know V is not good for sure. Not evil either, I mean it's his first really bad act (forget the explosive runes and Psychogirl, he knew it would not have killed her.)

This comic is both awesome and at the same time sooooo wrong on the morality scale. The OotS is in deep Sh** now !! Of course, they can still make a story up. Kubota was...trying to escape... right, when being binded.
Hinjo's gonna buy this one, sure :smallannoyed:

Or will he ? For the Greater Good of his people, will he accept to lie Reminder : paladins don't lie !! They ARE right so they don't NEED to lie, hey ? That's their whole philosophy : If you act according to justice, you don't have to hide the facts from justice itself. So, will Hinjo fall ?

[SPoD]

Can't say I'm with V on this one. Perhaps I'm a bit too Lawful good for my own health, but I can't help feeling that Kubota would not walk away from this. Three witnesses, two of whom were nobles. A corpse readily accessible for "speak with dead", which I presume Durkon can use. Dead minions wearing Kubota's gear and whose names were no doubt registered somewhere. All the evidence on the ship he didn't get a chance to destroy. I somehow doubt pinning this on the minion would work.

Here's the thing: I don't think V gave a rat's ass whether Kubota eventually walked or not. V executed him because the trial would take up too much time. V doesn't even know that Kubota killed Therkla, he/she just wanted the distractions to stop. That's why it can't be a Good act, even though Kubota was Evil: because he/she did it for the wrong reason.

He/she executed a man because the alternative was mildly inconvenient to him/her.

[Mauve Shirt]

This will definitely come back to bite V in the ass, but I really applaud him anyway.


Here's the thing: I don't think V gave a rat's ass whether Kubota eventually walked or not. V executed him because the trial would take up too much time. V doesn't even know that Kubota killed Therkla, he/she just wanted the distractions to stop. That's why it can't be a Good act, even though Kubota was Evil: because he/she did it for the wrong reason.

He/she executed a man because the alternative was mildly inconvenient to him/her.

Heh. "Disintegrate...Gust of Wind" = 4 words. :smalltongue:

[SteveMB]

I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.

Indeed. I think it's a clear sign that V is just plain losing it.... :smalleek:

[Aerysil]

V took the Restore Plot Arc feat.

It made me laugh, but I also wonder WHY that happened. I almost seems a waste to have gone through all of this.

Waiting patiently...

[Tragic_Comedian]

That was just... so awesome.

But I have to wonder, was the Giant planning this all along or did he just get tired of the arc?

[Rogue 7]

Here's the thing: I don't think V gave a rat's ass whether Kubota eventually walked or not. V executed him because the trial would take up too much time. V doesn't even know that Kubota killed Therkla, he/she just wanted the distractions to stop. That's why it can't be a Good act, even though Kubota was Evil: because he/she did it for the wrong reason.

He/she executed a man because the alternative was mildly inconvenient to him/her.

Fair enough. I was just stating my moral dislike for it. I'd like to see David Argall argue that V's still Good now.

[Mauve Shirt]

On a different note, why does Kubota have more teeth than Xykon and Skele-Roy?

[MammonAzrael]

Truly the adventurer's mindset. If it's in the way of completing the quest, kill it. I quite like it.

Personally, I'm going to say this is a chaotic good act on V's part. It was clearly against the laws of Azure City, but had Kubota been taken to trial he would've tied everyone and everything up before being released to continue his plotting (Unless speak dead with Therkla was an option). And that would take away time from hunting down and stopping Xykon, the true threat. Kubota was a minor annoyance in comparison, but one that had to be dealt with to get onto stopping the world from being overtaken by evil.

And frankly, how do you think they're going to stop V? If he's down to this level of violence because people keep getting in the way of him finding Haley, Belkar, and Roy, then I doubt they really can stop him at all. Especially since they're on boats, and not equipped to hold him in a cell.

[evisiron]

(cough) wow. . .
THAT WAS AWESOME!
deep breath. . .

Seconded!

V just gained 14 ranks on the Awesome Scale. :smallamused:

[Huckminster]

Sometimes, +5 armor is nothing more than evidence.

Now, somebody get V some hot milk and a blankie.

[Rogue 7]

On a different note, why does Kubota have more teeth than Xykon and Skele-Roy?

Better dental hygene.

[Fingolfin]

Wow, now that was something I didn't expect. Nice one Rich.

[Njord]

I don't think V ir at all caring what are the other lords or even Hinjo are going to say.
See what he says: ... Resume Saving the World.

Attention: it is not: lets save Azure City.

Kubota, the pit fiend, Qquar, gosh even Therkla are nothing but minor things to V, and hell, I would say that right, now, at this moment, if the whole fleet of Hinjo turned against V, he would just fireball - or whatever spell - to destroy them, and : Resumo saving the world.

Time has passed. no more time for jokes, mind (or court) games. Its time to act.

And that is just too dangerous for both V and everyone else.

[Kobold-Bard]

I have never been one of those people that feels an emotional connection to fictional characters, but as soon as I saw Kubota's last panel I actually clenched my fists and cheered at the sheer awesome that was :vaarsuvius:'s response to the Kubota issue. I know the Giant doesn't read the forums but bravo on encapsulating the feelings in my posts since Therkla's death in :vaarsuvius:'s last line.

Truly one of the best in a while and a personal favourite of mine. Next stop, Darkcity (name?) and :roy:'s hopefully swift return to the land of the living.

Viva la Disintergrate.

[Yendor]

*splutter* What the hell was that?!

This... this is just not going to end well.

[Saph]

Just to say it again - that was awesome. :) I was so tired of listening to Kubota monologue. Did not see it coming, either.

And as V says: "Now can we PLEASE resume saving the world?"

- Saph

[werik]

HAH! Yes! Of all of the things that I expected to see in this comic, this wasn't it. That was amazing. That's all I have to say.

[Stupendous_Man]

Verily, V saw that the only verdict for verminous Kubato's viciously virulent villainous villainy was vengeance, a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.

[Alturin]

Best. Comic. Evah! (again... :P)

[King of Nowhere]

Greatest.
Vaarsuvius' line.
Ever.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Hilarious and appropriate… yet mildly unsatisfying. Too clean and quick an end for the karmic backlog that Villain worked up.

[Sir_Hobbit]

This strip makes me happy.

And it completely revitalised V for me. V was my favorite character, but after his/her long absence after the Invisible spell, and the reclusiveness thereafter, I was losing faith with V. But this strip...

For one thing, yes, so completely badass. For another thing, it gave me faith that V was still V.

:vaarsuvius: Now can we PLEASE resume saving the world?

I was of the crowd that wanted Kubota to come back another day, but I'm not complaining. Best ending for him I could hope for, really.

Nailed it, Giant.

[Sir_Hobbit]

EDIT: Eesh, sorry guys, double-posted.

[King of Nowhere]

Greatest.
Vaarsuvius' line.
Ever.


EDIT: But, now that I think of it, how many gp of magic items did (s)he obliterated that way?

[Zarah]

On a different note, why does Kubota have more teeth than Xykon and Skele-Roy?

He's an aristocrat. It's a class feature for all the fake smiling he does.

[Lorn]

I read the comic.

I read the entire thread. On slow internet.

While talking to several people on MSN.

While doing English work.

I am still laughing.

That was WIN.

[Hamilkar]

Great comic as always.
*
This was so random than i finally decided to register myself to the forum. That is also random.
*
Well V is going to be over the edge very soon (Or is s/he already)… S/He is never the less my favorite character!

[RubberBandMan]

I dislike the fact that people are assuming that Rich is trying to move past this arc. The characters are trying to make it go away, and lets face it, do the characters have things always happen the way they want to?

V knows what kind of mess it would of been for a trail, Kubato knows, Hinjo would know, and Elan is figuring out the mess. V is trying to make it all go away, but in doing so is causing more problems.

Left evidence of wrongdoing in a house? Burn it down. Then you're running from an Arson rap, and in doing so steal a car, which has its plates reported...

This isn't aborting the arc, or making it pointless. This is the CLIMAX of the arc, hell, of V's character arc. Anything not related to power or gaining it is pushed out of the way. Morals, laws, and other peoples opinions are brushed aside for V's goals. The fact that he wants to save the world instead of something slightly more selfish just shows that he's Neutral, not Evil

I, for one, love this twist. Its also a great show of character alingments once again. Hinjo played this in the Lawful good way, and kept the (most likely) Neutral good Elan in line with him. But True Netural V doesn't care about the law, or the morality of killing an evil person who is doing evil things, only the fact that something was in the way of the greater goal. (Not 'good'. Goal.).

Now instead of a cat-and-mouse trial of Lawful Evil vs. Lawful good, we're going to end up with a much more interesting trial of "Lawful Good vs. Pragmatism" which is a debate on the morality, not on evidence and eye-witnesses. I bet that no one is going to debate what happened as much as 'was it the right thing to do'. Even if the trial is a farce, there are going to be some interesting side-bar conversations between Elan and V. I have no doubt that V would cover this up and say he drowned simply to get it over with as soon as possible, if he thought it was the fastest way to make everyone get over it.

[Swordguy]

Verily, V saw that the only verdict for verminous Kubato's viciously virulent villainous villainy was vengeance, a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.

Had I not already posted the "Orson Welles clapping" gif for V and Rich in this thread, I'd post it for you.

[Cestrian]

God but I adore V. That was glorious.

And I'm of the crowd that has no problem spending 50 strips on a mildly amusing but ultimately inconsequential sidequest. I read the comic becuase it entertains me not just because I'm dying to see what happens next.

[Mr. Scaly]

Ah, so the trial of the century is actually V being arrested for the unprovoked murder of an Azure city nobleman. :smallbiggrin:

And if you don't think it will happen, this is ELAN we're talking about. He'll mess up and say something.

[silversaraph]

BESTCOMICEVERIDONTKNOWHOWTOUSECAPSORSPACESANYMORET HATWASJUSTSOAWESOME!!:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:: smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:


That aside, I am putting that on my refrigerator.

[Sonar009]

"Applause"

[Holammer]

While Kubota was a bastard and deserved it there's still due process to consider. I can't imagine that this will slide unless V actually wiped him off the charts and this becomes his/her little secret with Elan.

... and V is totally some shade of Neutral. Claiming anything else would be akin to claiming Belkar being anything Good.

[Shott]

That was epic. This is why I love V so much.

[AslanCross]

I was so satisfied after seeing Kubota's ashes get blown away. Clearly he thought he was a Magnificent Bastard. Clearly he was not.

[Tirian]

I for one am disappointed in Vaarsuvius. I can't think of a more apt target than Kubota for Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion, and now it's too late!

[Lycan 01]

YES!!!!


That... that...

That was good. :smallbiggrin:

[Threeshades]

You know I would also say it's awesome. But V just blew the most awesome looking, and probably also best armor in the whole comic over board :smallfrown:

[Kato]

Okay... I read the comic... and than I actually shouted out 'YES!!!' (yeah, I shouted the !s as well) and I'm still smiling over it ^^

Okay, that was 1) something I saw coming, at least V getting rid of this bastard with a Disintegrate,
2) finally a solution to the Kubota plot,
3) finally a punishment for the bastard and revenge for Therkla,
4) a short cut around another arc, which would have taken another ten strips at least (and we already had a trial, so I think the Giant was sure long ago not to get another in)
and 5) a new CMOA for V ^^

So then, may the plot advance!

[Trizap]

even in V's sleepless state, she (I think V's a she) still proves that shes awesome and won't deal with distractions like Kubota, really along with Therkla I think the neutrals have the right idea here, Kubota has too much Good Publicity to be put on trial, so the only choice is to kill him.

however this raises a new problem: what will happen when Kubota is gone, along with Therkla, plus a big demon suddenly appearing then getting turned into a statue while the two most recently made nobles are found beaten and wounded while henchmen of Kubota are found in their room, plus Kubota's death and V's evidence diposal, what could come of this?

I mean really V what you did was awesome, but what the consequences of it?

[Fanatic-Templar]

It occurs to me that Vaarsuvius shares character traits with Miko. To me, this seems to parallel the assassination of Lord Shojo, with Elan replacing Hinjo.

Both seem to believe that 'the ends justify the means' and have a high (though not undeserved) opinion of themselves.

Just a thought.

[Izad]

'Disintegrate.' 'Gust of Wind.' That's four words. Perhaps this is the path to ultimate power?

I saw that too. I reread the prophecy and it says the right four words to the right being at the right time, so by a stretch...Maaaybe.

Then again, guessing right what's going to happen in this comic is sort of like playing a game of Whack-A-Electron, so I'm not quite ready to commit.

[Ted The Bug]

PWN'D.
Really, I could say more, but I don't want to. Also, I agree with the Miko/V comparison, although V is always overcalculating and levelheaded, while Miko is the opposite.

[Oslecamo]

Keep it simple. Keep it effecient.

Loved this strip. Kill the bad guy, get rid of the incriminating proofs, move on to next subject.


Also, this is where the DM makes more rocks fall from the sky. Altough V should be more than used to it, since indeed luck hasn't been on his side.

[Dorizzit]

Oh yes. I have waited so long for something like that to happen to that smug a******

[The Tygre]

Oh my god! That was the most awesome thing I've seen V do yet! Oh man, it just makes me want to...

JOYGASM!

[BRC]

There is no way V is getting away without a charge of murder for this one, killing a noble in (apparently) cold blood will certainly not be a crime he can dodge.

V is definitely getting way too obsessed with solving his communication puzzle.

Apparentally "Those ninjas were obviously sent by somebody else and were just trying to smear my good name" is a legitimate legal defense, so considering that V and Elan were the only witnesses, saying "Kubuto chose to commit honorable suicide by jumping into the ocean with all that heavy armor on" should be equally legitimate.

[Belkarsbadside1]

That was too easy. I smell trouble coming up. No way can it end as easily as that.

V was epic, but will soon get a karmic whoopass for that.

[Natural20]

She forgot to loot the armor. Paint it green, no on will know the difference.

[Forealms]

Beats OJ's trial for sure.

Congratulations, you win a cookie :smallbiggrin:

[Thufir]

Huh...

Not entirely a good thing, but V clearly has a point with the 'resume saving the world' line. On the other hand, even with the evidence gone, I find it hard to believe there will be no consequences for V.

[BRC]

Huh...

Not entirely a good thing, but V clearly has a point with the 'resume saving the world' line. On the other hand, even with the evidence gone, I find it hard to believe there will be no consequences for V.
Hinjo will likely be mad at him, but with no proof Hinjo can't take any official action against V. V won't really care.

[Skaarg]

Hehehe. Well, I was referring in terms of the prophecy than anything else.

Though I think it's going to be interesting to see where it goes from here. But yeah, V could be in some trouble here... and actually, now that you mention that, it might be the right motivation to cause him to leave on his own. It isn't really like the others could stop him at the moment.

And then he researches the Snarl on his own, and figures out how the gates work, and how to control them... oh, dear.

OK I don't know if you can call it a spoiler if you aren't sure, but I do think you are probably just about right. Maybe not in the exact specifics of what V will do in the future, but in that this may indeed be the four words of which the Oracle spoke.

"Disintegrate." "Gust of Wind."

Maybe followed shortly by "/gquit"

I think that a quote or two of Xykon's (from Start of Darkness) are appropriate when examining V's recent behavior.



Start of Darkness, page 106, to Dorukan:
Only two things matter: Force in as great a concentration as you can manage, and style.
And in a pinch, style can slide.

and



Start of Darkness, page 109, (whispering) to Redcloak:
It's not just about raw power, it's also about how far you're willing to debase yourself before feeling bad.
And me? I ripped off my own living flesh so that I wouldn't have to admit weakness. You're strictly little league compared to that.

V will eventually remember that his (or her) original ultimate goal wasn't to save the world, but to achieve ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER. Once he (or she) does remember that, it won't be much of a jump to realize that annoyances can be eliminated not just for the whole "saving the world" thing but for whatever else he (or she) wants.

[Lamech]

What in the world V?!?!?!? Killing prisioners is evil, evil. This was not awsome it was freaking stuipid!
I think this goes in the chaotic column too as it will get them exiled probably, and no way was it well thought out; I doubt Elan is going to lie, and besides that magic he mentioned its going to be used against the order of stick. And after that good luck stopping Quar, he can still start monster attacks and their won't be any OotS to stop them this time.

How will Quar be stopped? I just don't know...


It occurs to me that Vaarsuvius shares character traits with Miko. To me, this seems to parallel the assassination of Lord Shojo, with Elan replacing Hinjo.

Both seem to believe that 'the ends justify the means' and have a high (though not undeserved) opinion of themselves.
Hmm... some similarities, I wouldn't be surprised if Elan tried to subdue V right now. Kubota was the polar oppisite aligment wise, and V is probably CG still, while Miko was lawful good, ditto with Elan and Hinjo

[EndlessWrath]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

It was an evil act. it doesn't mean V is evil. (i think) he's true neutral... he goes all ways.

Quickest action to gain the wanted results.

[Shady_halfling]

personally i think this was not a good comic. the giant is loosing his touch. seriously. he spent way to long segwaying from the original plot and throwing to many curve balls at us to cut off a great villain so abruptly. V needs to trance, Roy needs 2 get raised, and the order of the stick needs to regroup soon or i'm gonna seriously loose interest in this strip.:smallmad:

[Essex]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.
Actually, it could be a lawful act. There are two types of Lawful Neutral characters, those who mostly follow the law and don't care if it is a good law or a bad law so long as it doesn't inconvenience them too much and those with an internalized code of conduct which is followed without worrying about issues of legality.

V may be Lawful Neutral and dealing with the issue according to an internalized set of priorities. Of course the fact that V executed the man and then covered up the crime is disturbing and may presage an eventual fall to the dark side of the alignment scale.

Given that I've already predicted Durkon's return to his homelands as an undead servant of Xykon, the addition of an all powerful Darth V to the end of the series is extra creepy.

[Ganurath]

"Innocence is the price of Justice."

[Prowl]

From V's point of view, I don't think there's anything evil at all about the act, it was a simple expedient to remove an obstacle to OotS' saving the world. Kubota's continued existence had proven to be a mortal threat to the party and V was removing it. V had no illusions as to what Kubota was about.

As to consequences... well, that offers an opportunity to continue the story arc as much as a Kubota trial would have. So plot wise I'm not particularly disappointed by the direct approach. It's actually quite refreshing to see that finally a villain doesn't get to call the shots unless they are defeated straight up in battle.

If nothing else it makes clear that the latest sub-plot is about the development of V, and to a smaller degree Elan, rather than Therkla and Kubota.

[sealemon]

There's a fairly obscure movie staring Michael J. fox called Greed. The entire movie was a setup for the last 5 seconds. This arc, and the last few panels, felt the same way.

And I agree with the others: I think V just fullfilled his/her proficy.

[otakuryoga]

O



M



G!!!!!!


there i am happily reading along....scroll down and BAM!!!!! kubota dead

I just wish :belkar: had been around to see that......wait, no...he woulda been so impressed that his lil proto-brain might have moved :vaarsuvius: out of the hated category again

[Swashbuckler]

V. is. THE. MAN. (and no, I don't care what anyone else thinks)

Let's hear it for trial by Disintegrate!! :amused:

"Now can we PLEASE resume saving the world?" Amen, kiddo. Screw the sidequests and get back on the mainline.

[Murphoid]

HOLY F&#%&@% S%$&!!! V just murdered him. I mean you could argue he deserved it, but come on.

Now what? Spend the next 20 strips on the trial of V? Or do we just move on as V suggests?

[Draz74]

:vaarsuvius: !!!

Dear Vaarsuvius:

Thank you for not only solving the problem of Kubota so elegantly, but for voicing my own frustrations with this current plot arc so eloquently.

Durkon may still be annoyed at you, but I just lost any frustration you had caused me.

Kubota learned the hard way not to mess with a high-level arcanist -- especially with a neutral alignment -- as a mere NPC-class villain. :smallamused: (S)He's finally learning to use hir high-level spell slots, instead of relying on old mainstays (e.g. Fireball).

[Trazoi]

Let's hear it for trial by Disintegrate!!
If you make your saving throw, you are proven innocent! Fail and you are found guilty! The dice know all!

[Lamech]

personally i think this was not a good comic. the giant is loosing his touch. seriously. he spent way to long segwaying from the original plot and throwing to many curve balls at us to cut off a great villain so abruptly. V needs to trance, Roy needs 2 get raised, and the order of the stick needs to regroup soon or i'm gonna seriously loose interest in this strip.
I thought this was stunning and a reasonable, and fully possible resoltution to Kubota. V was strong enough to do it and it was fully in character. If this has no further consequences and the rest is just a simple non-problematic resoltution, say if Elan and V lie and manage to get this wrapped up without difficulty, I would be miffed too. I think that this was a very good strip, I suspect the ones following this will be good as well; the giant puts out good strips quite consistantly, and I have no reason to say he will change.

[Draz74]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

...

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

Unless V's character development was the real point of this whole arc all along.

[LuisDantas]

I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.

You are not.


I mean, yeah, it ended the problem of Kubota, but I think the problem of Vaarsuvius is just beginning.

Not to mention the rifts he just created among himself, Elan & Durkon and Hinjo. And that is even assuming Kubota is mistaken (or lying) about his own reputation. The nobility will NOT take this event lightly.

[Mr Pants]

Ya know, as I was reading it I thought "why dont they just kill him?"
V just got a helluva lot cooler

[Shosuro Ishii]

honestly, got to say that this is the first OOtS comic that I really hated (594 for 595 isn't bad though).

Kabuto was a cool villian, was something that we haven't seen a dozen times, and was a damn threatening character for having aristocrat levels and what do we get from him.

A death that may as well have been off-camera, that came out of no where.

A very anti-climactic end to what could have been an awesome story (but I am a sucker for political decpetion and intrigue, so take from that what you will).

[EtherealStrife]

Clearly a Chaotic Good act. And True Awesome.

[Jayngfet]

THANK YOU! Without Therkla this would've gotten tedious.

[Murphoid]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

I don't see how anyone could argue that that wasn't an evil act. I mean he was tied up, he posed no immediate bodily threat to anyone. There were a number of other spells she could have used to say, relocate him halfway around the world, perhaps addle his mind, or some such.

Some who live deserve death and some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not so quick to deal out death either.

[Querzis]

Cool.

I liked Kubota but man V was badass. Evil too. Yes I think this might be the four words and it was definitly for all the wrong reasons. Now, in the civil war that will likely erupt because of this, V will commit more and more evil act. I cant wait for him to do a Raistin. V will be even more badass if hes evil.

And for the people who said the Giant was just trying to end the arc...what the hell? V will not get away with this, this arc is far from over.

Edit: I cant believe some people are arguing this was a good act. It just show that people have absolutely no idea what chaotic mean, I feel like the «Belkar is chaotic good» all over again. V killed a tied up man, that was evil. Hes still not evil though but I hope he will be soon enough, hes a lot more badass that way.

[teratorn]

This may be neutral but not evil (the reasons may be selfish but not evil). It saves countless lives, and most important it may save the universe.

V understood that killing Kubota and getting rid of the body means that there is no one in the fleet capable of bringing him back. Even if the heir to house Kubota were bound to bringing him back, no cleric there is high-level enough, and the new lord of the house may decide it's in "his best interest" to remain with the fleet. Turning Kubota to ashes and blowing them away was the easiest way to accomplish that. The fleet and Hinjo are safe for now, and there is no more reason for the order to stay with the azurites.

In fact given Elan's nature they need to leave as soon as possible (the Kato's can keep a secret but Elan must be kept away from Hinjo). They may go back to their quest.


I don't see how anyone could argue that that wasn't an evil act. I mean he was tied up, he posed no immediate bodily threat to anyone.

Capital punishement, his acts were clearly covered by the laws of the land, Therkla clearly said as so. If he were brought to a court with no tricks he would be killed tied up while not posing immediate bodily threat to anyone. The act is even sort of lawful* for it would follow the spirit of the law were it not for the tricks Kubota had. I don't want to discuss if capital punishement in itself is evil or just neutral. Suffice to say that in AC it isn't considered evil.

* ok, V is not a paladin or law enforcer so it's not lawful.

[Pronounceable]

What's up with V's every speech bubble being nitpicked for the four words? I know this here is an obsessive bunch but come on...

As for consequences: Irrelevant. V is the most powerful thing around here, none can stop him from doing whatever he wants. Only Durkon or Elan can try to reason with him but seeing V's condition, it's unlikely. Even if everyone turns against him, he can leave (or sink the whole armada if it comes to that).

There WILL be consequences: Hinjo could never agree with this, Elan will be stuck between them, there's probably a lot of nobles on Kubota's side... But they'll only serve to further define V's character, because (this bears repeating) there's no one who can stop him.

[Toper]

:smalleek:
Yeep. That was... unexpected. I don't quite understand the clamoring of "awesome" here... the COMIC is superb, great expressions and timing, but man, V's not doing too hot with the murdering-prisoners-to-save-time thing. At least last time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html) they had the reason that the prisoners would have escaped and killed lots of people... here, V seems as likely to start a war as prevent one.

I guess we'll see what happens. Seems like unless they can really play dumb -- and you'd think Kazumi at least was right there watching from the ship -- the very least that can happen is Hinjo kicking them out of the group. Which is maybe what V is going for.

[Danukian]

V is the (Wo)Man! :smallbiggrin:

[The_Weirdo]

Just to point out, Kubota DID send an imp that DID try to kill the party V was in. That included V himself.

So, in effect, Kubota tried to kill V.

Well, V tried to kill Kubota.

One of them succeeded. ;)

[Lord]

Just a thought, in regards to the whole "Elan ratting out V" idea. I think there's a low level spell called alter memory. As the name suggests it allows you to alter 5 minutes of memory. V could use that to make elan remeber things differantly..
Not saying it will happen though

[Skaarg]

What's up with V's every speech bubble being nitpicked for the four words? I know this here is an obsessive bunch but come on...

As for consequences: Irrelevant. V is the most powerful thing around here, none can stop him from doing whatever he wants. Only Durkon or Elan can try to reason with him but seeing V's condition, it's unlikely. Even if everyone turns against him, he can leave (or sink the whole armada if it comes to that).

There WILL be consequences: Hinjo could never agree with this, Elan will be stuck between them, there's probably a lot of nobles on Kubota's side... But they'll only serve to further define V's character, because (this bears repeating) there's no one who can stop him.

V is smart enough to realize that everything you say is true and perceptive enough to notice it once Elan and the rest turn against him (or her). Once he (or she) discovers that "there's no one who can stop him [or her]", how far away can ultimate arcane power be?

[Balkash]

Holy Freaking Crap +3! That was sweet. V finally does something good.

[Deepkicker]

I just got back from a midnight shift at work and I'm treated to this utter awesomeness! This is the first time in a long while that this comic has inspired a verbal reaction out of me. It was a kind of exalted "Ohhh..."

Also, look what's written in my signature about V. It's happening.

[Vonriel]

*awesome picture*

Truth.

Also, *begins channeling the little kid from The Incredibles*:
That was AWESOME!

[LuisDantas]

Apparentally "Those ninjas were obviously sent by somebody else and were just trying to smear my good name" is a legitimate legal defense, so considering that V and Elan were the only witnesses, saying "Kubuto chose to commit honorable suicide by jumping into the ocean with all that heavy armor on" should be equally legitimate.

No one would believe it. More significantly, neither Elan nor Hinjo will condone that line. Nor will the Katos, who may well have been watching the event. Remember Kazumi trying to stop Elan in the previous strip? I believe she saw V approaching and tried to tell Elan not put himself at risk.

[dogmac]

Um... V.....

V...

That isn't nice.

In fact, V, I would put that down as murder.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING V?????????????

You have just gone through to the evil side!

STOP IT V!!!! Come back to the light!!!!!!!!

[Lord Seth]

Hrm...well this proves that V isn't Lawful Good. Now, does (s)he count as Neutral or Chaotic due to this...

[tanonx]

I think their time with the Azurites is drawing to a close... After all, if V's remained persistant, he's got a chance of having contacted Haley by now. He'd have little love for staying on a boat for any longer than he had to, and what better way to convince them to make a stop ASAP?

Think the statements of 'awesome' are a combo of V just having destroyed a page-upon-page enemy in two panels (with style), and those who were pretty much thinking the same thing. 'Let's get on with saving the world, shall we?'

[busterswd]

What's up with V's every speech bubble being nitpicked for the four words? I know this here is an obsessive bunch but come on...

It's because it's him saying the right (debatably) thing at the right time to the right being for all the wrong reasons.

[Vulion]

Whoa...that was...whoa...

[The_Weirdo]

No one would believe it. More significantly, neither Elan nor Hinjo will condone that line. Nor will the Katos, who may well have been watching the event. Remember Kazumi trying to stop Elan in the previous strip? I believe she saw V approaching and tried to tell Elan not put himself at risk.

Bom, Elan ou Hinjo confirmarem não é tanto problema assim. Além do que, francamente, é um cara que efetivamente tentou matar o V.

[Aquillion]

Hrm...well this proves that V isn't Lawful Good. Now, does (s)he count as Neutral or Chaotic due to this...While I certainly wouldn't argue that V is lawful, execute-on-the-spot behavior (even when it's against local laws) can be lawful under certain circumstances; for instance, if the character has an insanely rigid code of ethics and kills anyone who goes against it (many lawful evil / neutral evil "Knight Templar" villains and anti-heroes follow this trope.) Think the Punisher, Judge Dredd, etc. In general, an unwavering, honestly-held commitment to wiping out evil (or anything else) under all circumstances is lawful in nature; it just isn't generally lawful good.

Think Vhailor from PS:T, who is an undead construct animated by pure law, and is so lawful that he ceases to exist if you manage to convince him that law is false.

[LuisDantas]

Bom, Elan ou Hinjo confirmarem não é tanto problema assim. Além do que, francamente, é um cara que efetivamente tentou matar o V.

Have you forgotten that this is an English-language forum? :)

As for your point, I directly counter it. Neither Elan, nor Hinjo nor the Katos are THAT cold-blooded. Besides, V has no legal authority. He commited murder with no real attenuating circunstances, simple as that.

[Achilles]

HAHAHAHA! That's one way to end a subplot.

[Baywolfe]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

I dreaded this sort of outcome over the last few strips, and now that it's arrived, it's as drearily anticlimatic as expected.

This sort of ending doesn't only destroy a promising future plotline, it also actively taints and spoils everything leading up to it - Burlew is in effect openly conceding this entire sub-plot's ultimate irrelevance with such a perfunctory ending that directly admits the plot's incidental nature. This corrupts the memory of several dozen comics with a deflating sense of purposelessness.

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

You're not serious? If this was a movie, everyone would be on their feet cheering, laughing, and high-five'ing each other. You are right in one respect though, the title of "Trial of the Century" does show a cynical attitude towards a sub-plot that practically nobody cared about.

[Lamech]

This may be neutral but not evil (the reasons may be selfish but not evil). It saves countless lives, and most important it may save the universe.

V understood that killing Kubota and getting rid of the body means that there is no one in the fleet capable of bringing him back. Even if the heir to house Kubota were bound to bringing him back, no cleric there is high-level enough, and the new lord of the house may decide it's in "his best interest" to remain with the fleet. Turning Kubota to ashes and blowing them away was the easiest way to accomplish that. The fleet and Hinjo are safe for now, and there is no more reason for the order to stay with the azurites.

In fact given Elan's nature they need to leave as soon as possible (the Kato's can keep a secret but Elan must be kept away from Hinjo). They may go back to their quest.



Capital punishement, his acts were clearly covered by the laws of the land, Therkla clearly said as so. If he were brought to a court with no tricks he would be killed tied up while not posing immediate bodily threat to anyone. The act is even sort of lawful* for it would follow the spirit of the law were it not for the tricks Kubota had. I don't want to discuss if capital punishement in itself is evil or just neutral. Suffice to say that in AC it isn't considered evil.

* ok, V is not a paladin or law enforcer so it's not lawful.

I have a better option for V get Durkon, and tell Kubota, "your going to let Durkon use his magic to turn you something-of-your-choice, or I'll kill you." What he did was evil. Two really the problem is solved? All Kubota did was send Ninja and samuri to fight, and his heir could do the same. Or my personal favorite clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm). And I do belive that Quar was the one who sent the monsters at everyone, and that while Kubota approved of it he wasn't who actually did it.

[CaptOfTheHarem]

While I most heartily congratulate V on his/her actions, I fear the consequences of his/her actions.

Now to the confusion created by this strip, V's alignment seems to be thrown out of a window. I have seen comments that put V's actions as: True Neutral, Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, some form of evil (primarily Neutral Evil), and Chaotic Good. Personally I see V as True Neutral, but perhaps leaning towards the chaotic side.

Apparently, the ambiguity of V's gender is rubbing off on other parts of her/his "character sheet"

[Rhuadin]

Noooo! All that expensive magical armor and defensive items! :(

[The Extinguisher]

All abord the slippery slope train. Destination, Face Heel Turn ville.

[Tyrrell]

n my opinion V is doing the best she can to save the world. She isn't going to let laws or niceties get in the way of doing what's best. Following the laws means Kubata would continue his evil ways and more would suffer, it means the Order of the stick would not be able to find Gerard's gate and stop Xykon taking over the world.

This is textbook Chaotic good; putting what's right above the dictates of society.

[Danukian]

Um... V.....

V...

That isn't nice.

In fact, V, I would put that down as murder.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING V?????????????

You have just gone through to the evil side!

STOP IT V!!!! Come back to the light!!!!!!!!

As seen in the last panel here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0179.html), V walks proudly in the Dark Side!

[Kaihaku]

That was awesome. V is my hero...or would be if not for the whole going insane thing.

[Kaihaku]

Just a thought, in regards to the whole "Elan ratting out V" idea. I think there's a low level spell called alter memory. As the name suggests it allows you to alter 5 minutes of memory. V could use that to make elan remeber things differantly..
Not saying it will happen though

The ironic thing about that suggestion is that Alter Memory is a Bard spell. Elan might know it but V does not.

[Kroy]

That...OMGwas... V Friggin'... You.Awesome!rule!

[EvilElitest]

Whoa. Was that a neutral or evil act? I know it's definitely not Lawful.

Evil. What it entails for V varies, depending on if she was LG boarding LN, or LN. Personally, i think she is LN, so that will simply bump her into LE, or at least make it close. Doesn't really matter through, she is a wizard


I'd say either neutral good or chaotic good. V knew what needed to be done and simply did it. It wasn't following the letter of the law as Azure City would have it, but it was an appropriate action.

killing prisoners is evil, as it is murder



The right being: Kubota deserved it, he's a cretin and needed to die.

Not by a good standard. being evil isn't a crime, and part of good is mercy, forgivness, and compassion. He deserved to be punished certainly, and was a threat, but deserving to die implies that was the only way to handle the situation

from
EE

[kerravon]

Holy Crap!!!! Has V totally lost his mind? How can he justify DOING that? Expedience?!?!!!!

(Not that I don't wish sometimes that our criminal justice system had the same option...)

[Kaihaku]

It depends on motives, I think. It was not noble but neither is coup de graeing sleeping kobolds. It could be Chaotic, Neutral, or Evil. If it hadn't been a surprise attack, I could see a Chaotic Good character doing it. The laws are corrupt, defend yourself sort of thing. In this situation, I think it was Chaotic, personally...a sign of V's further descend into insanity.

[see]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

I dreaded this sort of outcome over the last few strips, and now that it's arrived, it's as drearily anticlimatic as expected.

This sort of ending doesn't only destroy a promising future plotline, it also actively taints and spoils everything leading up to it - Burlew is in effect openly conceding this entire sub-plot's ultimate irrelevance with such a perfunctory ending that directly admits the plot's incidental nature. This corrupts the memory of several dozen comics with a deflating sense of purposelessness.

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

You play much D&D? If V had let him live, V would have been acting utterly out-of-character. This is exactly what PCs like V do, because players are independent agents who consider their own convenience, and will act to short-circuit drama if it suits them. And thus it is absolutely perfect for this comic strip, which is, after all, based in the conventions of a D&D game.

[Kaihaku]

You play much D&D? If V had let him live, V would have been acting utterly out-of-character. This is exactly what PCs like V do, because players are independent agents who consider their own convenience, and will act to short-circuit drama if it suits them. And thus it is absolutely perfect for this comic strip, which is, after all, based in the conventions of a D&D game.

True story.

[sednanalien]

Moral of Story? Never give your nefarious scheme exposition within earshot of any PC:smalltongue:

[Crinos]

Well its about effin time someone did something about Kubota.

Personally I would have preferred my theory: That upon returning to his ship Kubota discovers the linear guild waiting for him, wanting to recruit Therkla, who happens to be Thogs little sister. Kubota tries to bull**** his way out of trouble, but Thog is too stupid to listen to reason, and Nale isn't interested in allying with Kubota when its easier to just kill him and let Sabine take on his form.

Cue Thog throwing Kubota overboard and Kubota drowning due to his armor and craptacular swim check.

I hope they show a scene with Kubota in OOTS setting hell where Qarr chastises him for his failure seconds before he is turned into a mindless lemure.

[Warren Dew]

Nice. A hilarious strip with character development and plot advancement, all at the same time! I only regret that I didn't see it first on a smaller monitor (mine shows the whole page at once).

On the armor - if Haley finds out, she may be upset, but to Vaarsuvius, it's just incriminating junk that only a meat shield could use.

On bringing Vaarsuvius to trial, I doubt very much that it will happen. I don't think Vaarsuvius is interested in standing trial, and I don't think the police forces of the fleet can capture and hold an unwilling Vaarsuvius.


The fleet and Hinjo are safe for now, and there is no more reason for the order to stay with the azurites.

In fact given Elan's nature they need to leave as soon as possible (the Kato's can keep a secret but Elan must be kept away from Hinjo). They may go back to their quest.

I tend to agree, though I also tend to be wrong in this kind of prediction.

[The Wanderer]

I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.

Nope, you're not. Two strips ago I was pointing out to some folks that if V did come along, disintegrate Kubota's boat and then let him drown in his armor, it would be a furthering of V slipping towards evil.

As it is, this is an even bigger step towards the proverbial dark side. The deepening of V's personal darkness may be the biggest and longest running effect this subplot will have on the comic.

[shylocxs]

Wow, now I'm afraid of V.

And so delighted! My second favorite character death so far (that irritating paladin will still be something I will always rejoice over).

[Fanatic-Templar]

I very much doubt that Vaarsuvius will be going Raistlin on us. Sure, if she continued on this path, it might eventually come to that, but I believe this is merely a continuation on the theme the comic has had since the end of the battle in Azure City, which is that the Order of the Stick falls apart when Roy isn't there. I suspect that when Roy returns... well, things won,t simply go back to how they were before, but 'all will be well', so to speak.

Also, while in my opinion not one of V's greater moments, I can appreciate this as part of her character development. It's certainly not affected me like that truly horrific instance back in the City. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html)

[Dalek Kommander]

Hinjo will likely be mad at him, but with no proof Hinjo can't take any official action against V. V won't really care.

Not to mention, would YOU want to try to arrest a wizard who turns thirty-foot tall demons to stone and disintegrates mere nobles with a single word?

[ericgrau]

I'm gonna say V's act was lawful good. Seriously. It just takes a little common sense and a lot less nitpicking.

Is he in trouble? Heck ya... except they can't make a case, and that's not just because the evidence is gone (though it helps). I expect some angry words, if anything.

[David Argall]

Here's the thing: I don't think V gave a rat's ass whether Kubota eventually walked or not. V executed him because the trial would take up too much time.
You are jumping to conclusions here. V has much better motive than that.
For starters, V would not be bothered by a trial at all. She is not at all a necessary witness. At most, she would spend a few minutes on the stand telling details others already had told. From her view, Kubota's trial is a trivial issue. He will spend far more time convincing Hinjo not to try her and should he be put on trial for killing Kubota, the distraction would be major. Definitely a bad idea to kill Kubota if the trial is the big concern.


V doesn't even know that Kubota killed Therkla, he/she just wanted the distractions to stop.
The distractions include summoning a major devil, arranging an attempted ambush of the mission to the orcs, summonsing a long list of monsters to attack... Large numbers have been killed, and if we assume Kubota was correct, his death saved large numbers of lives.


That's why it can't be a Good act, even though Kubota was Evil: because he/she did it for the wrong reason.
Good intentions do not make good deeds. And bad intentions do not make a good result bad.


He/she executed a man because the alternative was mildly inconvenient to him/her.
Kubota's efforts could have killed V just a few minutes ago. And his earlier actions were also a good deal more than mildly inconvenient.



Kill the bad guy, get rid of the incriminating proofs, move on to next subject.

V did not use Gust of Wind to get rid of evidence. It's a standard trick to make Disintegrate more permanent. That can be reversed with a 7th level Ressurection. After that gust, you need the 9th level True Ressurection [or a host of minions gathering all the dust that is now scattered over the sea and is getting more spread by the moment.]
Kubota might have had Ressurection available, but it's unlikely he has the
9th level spell around.



I'd like to see David Argall argue that V's still Good now.
Not hard at all really.

Now I would judge it was better that Kubota stand trial, but this is an outsider’s view, and is certainly a rebuttable view. So let us consider the “sin”.

Kubota was vocally guilty of several crimes, and clearly guilty of a great many more that had killed a number of people. He was boastful of his ability to win the court case, and presented enough evidence to make that boast creditable. So we can reasonably conclude that V saved a substantial number of lives even before we consider the problem of saving the world. V’s deed is thus default a good deed.

[see]

Some who live deserve death and some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them?
Sure. V can cast prismatic spray, so V is at least sufficient level to cast limited wish, which can duplicate reincarnate, bringing the deserving dead back to life.

(V can't use it to duplicate raise dead because conjuration is a prohibited school, but a generalist of V's level could.)

(And, of course, in this case, since the disintegrated remains have been Gust-of-Winded, the only way to reverse it is a true resurrection. But as a general rule, sure, V does have the power to restore life to the dead.)

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I can't be the only one who thinks Vaarsuvius executing a helpless man and then destroying the evidence is not a good thing.

I mean, yeah, it ended the problem of Kubota, but I think the problem of Vaarsuvius is just beginning.

Agreed. It's very Belkar-esque behavior. The motivation is different of course.
:belkar: Can we PLEASE resume gaining major XP

[PaladinFreak]

Ok, that was a great solution.

Leave it to V to find the most expediant way of dealing with the situation.

[mihai]

... V shortening the path of plot: priceless.

Also what a style, simply removing the wordy Kubota from existence, like a surgeon with his scalpel, instead of letting him get his dramatic end. That's the worst punishment one could think of.

But still: disturbing. Where is V heading now?

[Archangel Yuki]

Anticlimactic solution, thy name is Rich Burlew. :smalltongue:

Quoted for Truth.

[Sagus]

I'd love to see Kubota in his afterlife. I bet he still don't know what hit him :P

[LuisDantas]

Not to mention, would YOU want to try to arrest a wizard who turns thirty-foot tall demons to stone and disintegrates mere nobles with a single word?

If you were Hinjo, yes you would. He attempted to stop Xykon, after all.

[sihnfahl]

How can he justify DOING that? Expedience?!?!!!!
Practicality.

With Kubota's charisma, leadership and influencing abilities, he could have escaped justice. He also could have made people 'change their decisions' with subtle pressure. Then they'd be back at square one with Kubota again.

Far more practical to just execute him and be done with it. A little 'hide the evidence' and 'convince witnesses not to talk'...

Oh, and while Elan is Good, he's Chaotic. V will have him justifying the means in no time if Elan presses the matter.

[Prophaniti]

I'm sure it's been said before, but when I read the strip, I felt like shouting "About F#@$@ Time!" I would have killed him when he surrendered on the rowboat. Smug bastard. But then, I'm Chaotic Neutral, so...

[HamsterOfTheGod]

But V got rid of all the evidence and Elan is the only other witness (I think), so who's going to know?

More to the point, if you were Elan, would you testify against V now?

[Kish]

I saw that too. I reread the prophecy and it says the right four words to the right being at the right time, so by a stretch...Maaaybe.
I guessed, "Someone on the boards will have posted that 'Disintegrate Gust of Wind' is the four words."

It's as reliable as the sun, any time Vaarsuvius says four words, from the second the prophecy was made, whether those four words bear any resemblance to the rest of the prophecy or not.

[teratorn]

I have a better option for V get Durkon, and tell Kubota, "your going to let Durkon use his magic to turn you something-of-your-choice, or I'll kill you." What he did was evil. Two really the problem is solved? All Kubota did was send Ninja and samuri to fight, and his heir could do the same. Or my personal favorite clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm). And I do belive that Quar was the one who sent the monsters at everyone, and that while Kubota approved of it he wasn't who actually did it.
Since you're not proposing any future course of action for the strip, no need to use spoilers. :smalltongue:

I understand there were other options, but as I said, according to AC law (or at least Therkla's perception of it) Kubota would be hanged. And he would be as helpless as he was here. The punishment was according to the law of the land, the way it was applied wasn't. I was just arguing against people who claim the action was necessarily evil -- it could fall under true neutral.

V can always claim the destiny of all creation was more important than due process. Now, Hinjo and Elan may not agree, but Roy would. Hinjo's reaction is a big problem.

I understand some people won't be convinced, I'm just trying to show it isn't simply black and white, it depends on how you define your goodness and lawfulness (in DnD terms, please no real life here).

[synnerman]

Yay, V!!!!!

I hate when monologuing, snide villains get away with vast quantities of murder. From that crap he pulled during the defense of Azure city, through the ambushes, sedition and all the other crap, Kubota deserved exactly what he god.

Now it's time to save the bloody world.

[Commander Hayes]

A very good strip, but just something I couldn't help but notice: V was directly behind Elan. That means that when he landed on the boat, he would've been directly in Kubota's line of sight, and would've been spotted even if Kubota was looking at Elan and not paying that much attention. Surely he would've noticed an elf wizard in reddish robes with purple hair standing more or less in front of him and charging up a Disintegrate spell. Just makes me wonder why there was no indication in the comic of Kubota noticing anyone there, since logically I can't help but think Kubota should've seen V coming.

[Flying Platypus]

If I had a list of favorite strips from OotS this one would be on top!
Also, in frame 7 you still see his mustache in the silloet. :smalleek:

[Corrupted One]

Well I officially love V in a non-plutonic way. Gender be damned!

[SPoD]

A very good strip, but just something I couldn't help but notice: V was directly behind Elan. That means that when he landed on the boat, he would've been directly in Kubota's line of sight, and would've been spotted even if Kubota was looking at Elan and not paying that much attention.

Kubota has his eyes closed in Panel 6. Presumably, this is when V arrived.

Which brings up the possibility that V did not even hear Kubota's long speech, he/she just heard an obvious bad guy say that his trial would eat up "weeks" and then smoked him.

[silvadel]

In #20 Belkar said "In the future remind me to wait until late afternoon before insulting Vaarsuvius"

I don't think there is a proper time anymore.

[Jade Falcon]

desperate times call for drastic measures

[SmartAlec]

Now I would judge it was better that Kubota stand trial, but this is an outsider’s view, and is certainly a rebuttable view. So let us consider the “sin”.

Let's not, because it's not Kubota's actions or future actions that are important. After all, one could simply wait to see how the trial went, and if Kubota walks, THEN kill him. V has the power to kill Kubota - kill anyone in the fleet, quite possibly - at any time, it seems. But killing him while he's helpless and in custody? Certainly not ethical, and certainly not moral, either. There's no way out of that.

[Bluelantern]

I think V just voiced an underlying current of opinion in the community. :smalltongue:

Also, loved Elan's face of pure shock/horror.

QFT thought I wans't all that annoyed I do prefer that they just... go kill the damn snarl thing. I mean, how many other side-quest-y problems they have to solve:

a) The Linear Guild (because it WILL show again)
b) The Whole Harley & Cia problem on Greysky
c) Roy Ressurection, agravated with the "b" situation
d) And of the Azure City thing (or lack of azure city)

[sihnfahl]

Certainly not ethical, and certainly not moral, either. There's no way out of that.
Depends on your ethical and moral code, now, doesn't it?

[elonin]

V has certainly never been accused of being lawful. However, it appears that he is shifting toward evil.

[Baywolfe]

Depends on your ethical and moral code, now, doesn't it?

Absolutely! The "cop out" alignment is Chaotic Neutral. You can do anything and find any reason to justify it as long as you don't do the same thing too many times in a row.

V's days are numbered anyway. I don't think s/he survives much longer. (In game time not real time)

[Finwe]

Even if V's only motivation was expedience, it was still a good act (a chaotic act, but still good). When the fate of the world is literally at stake, and every second counts, you don't have time to offer due process to someone who has admitted to you their crimes, their plan to play the courts, and their intention to continue with their evil schemes, all of which impede your ability to SAVE THE ENTIRE WORLD.

[Mad Scientist]

Wow. That sure is a quick and tidy way to tie up a story line. I guess we'll just sweep all that under the rug and call it resolved.
It will be funny to see if the characters reflect back on the incident.

[Castel]

About todays comic:
Can I just say that Vaarsuvius is my favorite character from now on?

(And a big thank you to Rich Burlew for the amount of updates lately.)

[SmartAlec]

Depends on your ethical and moral code, now, doesn't it?

Actually, it depends on Mount Celestia's ethical and moral codes, and it's not hard to see this doesn't fit them.

[mikeejimbo]

OK, I think that was awesome. I was thinking "You know, it'd just be much more efficient to kill him now. Too bad Elan would never do that." Then, "Disintegrate." Something about the death seemed anti-climactic, too. He was just hit and...died.

[Finwe]

Wow. That sure is a quick and tidy way to tie up a story line. I guess we'll just sweep all that under the rug and call it resolved.
It will be funny to see if the characters reflect back on the incident.

Actually, V swept the remains out to sea rather than under a rug...

[The Wanderer]

You are jumping to conclusions here. V has much better motive than that.

I'd point out that you're jumping to conclusion about V's motives yourself, since the only thing V has said on the subject so far is "Now can we PLEASE resume saving the world", but then I remember that when the comic doesn't match the evidence in your head, you just make up the evidence you need. :smallwink:

By the way, if V killing an unarmed, defenseless captive, (who was not even a warrior or someone who was capable of defending himself in battle) without any warning is a good act, then why was Roy attacking Miko post fall such a bad act again that you were swearing up and down that Hinjo and the deva must have been tearing him a new one between comics, so that we convienently never saw it? You know, aside from the fact that Miko was a favorite character of yours. :smallwink:

David continues to remind me of a Shakespeare quote. "Faith, here's an equivocator who could swear in both the scales against either scale".

[JonahFalcon]

But V got rid of all the evidence and Elan is the only other witness (I think), so who's going to know?

V will know. Ethics are what we do when no one is around.

[JonahFalcon]

Ugh, what a dismal cop-out.

I dreaded this sort of outcome over the last few strips, and now that it's arrived, it's as drearily anticlimatic as expected.

This sort of ending doesn't only destroy a promising future plotline, it also actively taints and spoils everything leading up to it - Burlew is in effect openly conceding this entire sub-plot's ultimate irrelevance with such a perfunctory ending that directly admits the plot's incidental nature. This corrupts the memory of several dozen comics with a deflating sense of purposelessness.

A very bad call, and a very disappointing strip. :(

No. It's only a cop-out if nothing comes of it. (See: Willow the Flayer from Buffy. Her vigilante justice only led to greater trouble.)

[JonahFalcon]

The arc is OVAH!

Is it?

I remember the Futurama episode in which Leela wished she were a little more impulsive...

[lenster]

Oh wow. Now that was just badass.

Awesome strip.

[Eraniverse]

Is it evil to kill a murderous wizard with his arms tied but his mouth free and bragging about how many non-somatic spells he has prepped? Is it evil to kill a ancient tyrant, who poses no physical threat but whose armies pillage and burn across the world as he gloats how his armies will scourge your homelands?

Is it evil to kill a prisoner whose abilities are in no way bound?

Kubota's threat was never physical (Therkla might disagree but meh). Kubota had just taken lethal action against V and many others. Minions count, guys.

Chaotic Good. Albeit irritable from "sleep" deprivation.

[A Quiet Person]

I can't believe it... I almost agree with David Argall!

I would not class it as a good act, but V's disintegration of Kabuto certainly seems practical. Kabuto was more than a minor inconvenience; he summoned imps and unleashed ninja and demons on Hinjo's people. He then openly boasted about how he could easily abuse and manipulate the legal system to ensure that justice could not be done, and could in fact use it to make the situation even worse for the good guys.

After hearing that boast, killing Kabuto on the spot cannot be good, but how can trial be an ethical choice? If you believe Kabuto's very credible boast, choosing to go to trial becomes utterly naive.

What Rich Burlew seems to have done here is a OoTS version of Kurt Busiek's Kingdom Come, in which Magog executes the Joker after he has been captured. When Superman brings Magog to trial, he is disgusted when Magog's position receives acceptance and the justice system lets him go.

But Magog's points are not easily refuted - he's no straw man: the Joker killed dozens, and he has killed dozens in the past. Every time he is captured, he escapes again and again, and kills again and again. How many times can this happen before people realise that the idealised idea of the Joker's imprisonment and possible rehabilitation was not worth as much as the lives of all the people whom he was killing, time and time again. Magog killed the Joker not out of evil, but out of frustration, and in the wake of a monstrous massacre that the Joker had engineered.

Given the power and resources that Kabuto had, and the scale of the murders that he had in mind, a very similar argument can be made regarding V's decision-making. So I would not be so quick to write V off as evil; while not good, her utter frustration with the situation is understandable.

[Lupy]

V IS #1!!! <--- For the elf who killed the only villains in the plotline. :smallbiggrin:

[JonahFalcon]

Is it evil to kill a murderous wizard with his arms tied but his mouth free and bragging about how many non-somatic spells he has prepped?

Check out Identity Crisis, and get back to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Crisis_(comics)

[gamerboy6000]

Ha! I knew Kubota had it coming.

[JonahFalcon]

I can't believe it... I almost agree with David Argall!

I would not class it as a good act, but V's disintegration of Kabuto certainly seems practical. Kabuto was more than a minor inconvenience; he summoned imps and unleashed ninja and demons on Hinjo's people. He then openly boasted about how he could easily abuse and manipulate the legal system to ensure that justice could not be done, and could in fact use it to make the situation even worse for the good guys.

After hearing that boast, killing Kabuto on the spot cannot be good, but how can trial be an ethical choice? If you believe Kabuto's very credible boast, choosing to go to trial becomes utterly naive.

What Rich Burlew seems to have done here is a OoTS version of Kurt Busiek's Kingdom Come, in which Magog executes the Joker after he has been captured. When Superman brings Magog to trial, he is disgusted when Magog's position receives acceptance and the justice system lets him go.

But Magog's points are not easily refuted - he's no straw man: the Joker killed dozens, and he has killed dozens in the past. Every time he is captured, he escapes again and again, and kills again and again. How many times can this happen before people realise that the idealised idea of the Joker's imprisonment and possible rehabilitation was not worth as much as the lives of all the people whom he was killing, time and time again. Magog killed the Joker not out of evil, but out of frustration, and in the wake of a monstrous massacre that the Joker had engineered.

Given the power and resources that Kabuto had, and the scale of the murders that he had in mind, a very similar argument can be made regarding V's decision-making. So I would not be so quick to write V off as evil; while not good, her utter frustration with the situation is understandable.

Lois Lane gave her life so that the Joker be captured. She revealed herself so the Joker wouldn't get away. Magog killing him made her sacrifice a waste. Read the novelization by Maggin. Oh, and Magog's zeal for justice atomized Kansas.

Oh, and again, Elan is Lawful Good. What is V going to do to make sure he doesn't talk? Hm?

There's the quick and easy way, which always gets people in trouble.

[JonahFalcon]

There's an old saying: two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

[wyattbatman]

Question: If V has been getting as little sleep as has been implied, then how is (s)he been preparing new spells?

Sleep isn't required for Wizards, only meditation while reading their spellbook, as of v3.5. I haven't kept up on v4.0 to know if there was a change

[JonahFalcon]

I just wonder if V just caused the deaths of more innocent people.

[Emanick]

8 pages already? Wow, important comic. I'm very glad Kubota didn't live to see comic #600, though - at least now we know nothing really important will happen involving him in that.

It would be funny if Vaarsuvius's ancient elven god of secrets drained away her/his wizardry next comic, but that would be ridiculous and it won't happen. Oh well. :smalltongue:

I just wish that now that Kubota's dead, the mass of people spelling his name "Kubuto" or "Kabuto" or "Kabota" (I've seen all three) would stop spelling it that way. :smallannoyed: Oh well, I guess we can't have everything.

Edit: Jonah, Elan is Chaotic Good.

[ss49]

(8 pagers after, but...)
WORD.

[Ceric]

O



M



G!!!!!!My reaction exactly. WIN!

Don't know about Lawful-Chaotic, but to me this was a clearly Evil act. Evil is defined in DnD essentially as killing people, and, well, s/he did.
Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.

Evil implies harming, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient or if it can be set up. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some malevolent deity or master.
Emphasis mine. Aside from the actual killing by V, Kubota's death this way was much more convenient than a full trial would have been and saved lots of time, effort, and whatever else. Hence, evil.

Also, I agree with the people who say these are V's four words.

[JonahFalcon]

at least now we know nothing really important will happen involving him in that.

Are you sure?

[Lowkey]

V will know. Ethics are what we do when no one is around.

Actually, going by the old saying that is integrity. At least as I was taught it.


Anyway, V was p. badass here. But I have to wonder if as many people would be cheering if Belkar had been the one to execute the helpless (but guilty) prisoner.

I don't see Hinjo prosecuting V for this. In the bonus strips of War and XP there is a line from Shojo about Hinjo needing to lose his idealism to be an effective ruler for AC. I expect this will be a step towards that.

[Lokasenna]

Oh, and again, Elan is Lawful Good. What is V going to do to make sure he doesn't talk? Hm?


Did Elan change two alignments since Azure City? Since in this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html) strip, he is clearly Chaotic Good.

Edit: ninja'd!

[sihnfahl]

Oh, and again, Elan is Lawful Good. What is V going to do to make sure he doesn't talk? Hm?
Say it with me. Bard. Lawful?

[JonahFalcon]

Convenient for whom?

[JonahFalcon]

Say it with me. Bard. Lawful?
Okay, Elan is Good. Same question.

You still haven't answered how V will keep him quiet.

[stevekgoodwin]

Heh! Classic comic humour.

V expediated the judicial process -- Kabuto was a traitor during a war. Summary execution seems pretty reasonable to me. The entire population of the city is fleeing for their lives. On boats.

Miko, or any of the paladins, would have done the same without hesitation.

And in The Real World, it's been done, during war, by every army ever.

Traitor == evil. Traitor == waste of space.

(Although as an aside: Is it murder when you kill an orc? What about a half-orc? Hmmm!)

[NENAD]

The act could easily fall into CG territory. There is a bad guy. This bad guy has recently been elaborating about how he's going to escape trial and almost certainly kill more innocents. You know disentegrate. Therefore, the right thing to do is to kill the bad guy now before more innocents die. We don't know what V's reasoning was, exactly, except that s/he wants to go back to saving the world, however, so whether or not this is a sign of V's growing insanity is anyone's guess.

[JonahFalcon]

Actually, going by the old saying that is integrity. At least as I was taught it.


Anyway, V was p. badass here. But I have to wonder if as many people would be cheering if Belkar had been the one to execute the helpless (but guilty) prisoner.

I don't see Hinjo prosecuting V for this. In the bonus strips of War and XP there is a line from Shojo about Hinjo needing to lose his idealism to be an effective ruler for AC. I expect this will be a step towards that.

Loosen his idealism, not his morals. And you still don't know if this is exactly a good idea - the last time Zeus involved himself in human affairs, it resulted in the Trojan War. Think about it.

[JonahFalcon]

The act could easily fall into CG territory. There is a bad guy. This bad guy has recently been elaborating about how he's going to escape trial and almost certainly kill more innocents. You know disentegrate. Therefore, the right thing to do is to kill the bad guy now before more innocents die. We don't know what V's reasoning was, exactly, except that s/he wants to go back to saving the world, however, so whether or not this is a sign of V's growing insanity is anyone's guess.

Once more, how do you know this won't result in the death of MANY MORE INNOCENTS?

See: Post-war Japan.

And don't tell me he didn't have his own followers. What's V going to do? Kill each and every one?