The next incarnation of The Linear Guild

[Ron Miel]

Predictions and speculations go in spoiler boxes, don't they?

First of all, I predict that Celia will be recruited as an official member of The Order Of The Stick.

Now the Linear Guild: I predict that Sabine will decide that she is more an evil opposite for Celia than Haley.

Then The Linear Guild will recruit Ctystal as their new official evil opposite to Haley.

Whaddya think?

[Mauve Shirt]

Gods, I hope Celia isn't recruited into the Order. She's not a fan of killing things, and that's kind of what an adventurer does.
Crystal doesn't seem like enough of a minion character to be recruited by Nale.

[DBear]

Sabine is never going to forgive Haley for having called her a skank, so Haley's always going to be her personal rival.

[Dalenthas]

Nalle said he gave up on the 'evil opposites' thing because it wasn't doing him any good. I predict another disposable kobold though (its just too good of a running gag to skip).

[Ridureyu]

http://galisplace.com/ofer/Beyblade/nsd2/amimot2/dbz/GinyuForce%5B1%5D.jpg[/QUOTE]

It would be awesome.

[Enlong]

In which comic?

Also, the new Wizard will be a Necromancer who nevertheless genuinely cares for the team, listens to Nale, and wants to defeat the order with no casualties. She will some kind of elf subspecies and will have a relationship of trust with the new disposable kobold. (whose death will lead to her trying furiously to rez him with Necromancy)

Edit:
I lose. The Ginyu Force trumps any team idea
(yes, even Captain Planet or the actual Power Rangers)

[Ridureyu]

Yes, they really do. I wonder what they'd look like as stick figures...

[MReav]

So, whose gonna be the next Yik Yik? I vote Yak Yak, who happens to be a fightermage of some sort.


Wait, I know how Belkar's gonna die!

:belkar: Another Kobold? Goddamn, what's your stupid name? Yuk Yuk? Yoik Yoik?

Kobold: Actually, my name is Pun Pun.

:belkar::eek:

[Theodoriph]

I think Crystal will be dealt with for good in Haley's Subplot. I don't think she's going to become a recurring villain.

[Ron Miel]

What, haven't you noticed The Giant's writing yet? A minor character in book X becomes major antagonist in book X+1.

I predict, therefore, that Crystal will be one of the main villains in book 5.

[Theodoriph]

What, haven't you noticed The Giant's writing yet? A minor character in book X becomes major antagonist in book X+1.

I predict, therefore, that Crystal will be one of the main villains in book 5.



Oh, I see. So which minor characters in book X became major antagonists in book X+1? Naturally there must be a zillion of them, else you wouldn't believe there to be a pattern.

But alas, I can think of only one off the top of my head, though I don't really consider Kubota to be a major antagonist.

As I see it, the only major antagonists are the Linear Guild and Xykon and co., and they've always been major antagonists. But I'm always open to convincing.



Edit: As an aside, I'm curious as to why you think Crystal will become a main antagonist? What would she bring to the story? What are her motivations? Killing Haley because she left the Thieves Guild isn't really the goal of a main antagonist in my books. It's fairly dull and blah imo. Worthy of a subplot, but not of the main plot. But perhaps you have a more expansive idea?

[MReav]

Except that Crystal appeared in On The Origin of PCs, would have been Book 0 (Start of Darkness being Book -1). Shouldn't she have appeared to harass the Haley in Dungeon Crawling Fools?

[Ron Miel]

Oh, I see. So which minor characters in book X became major antagonists in book X+1? Naturally there must be a zillion of them, else you wouldn't believe there to be a pattern.

But alas, I can think of only one off the top of my head, though I don't really consider Kubota to be a major antagonist.

There's also the end of book 1 which introduces a character who will later become a great big PITA.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html

Okay, maybe it doesn't happen every time, but it is a regular pattern.


As I see it, the only major antagonists are the Linear Guild and Xykon and co., and they've always been major antagonists. But I'm always open to convincing.

Doesn't Miko count?



Edit: As an aside, I'm curious as to why you think Crystal will become a main antagonist?

Mainly because it fits the pattern of previous writings. The Giant has a habit of introducing characters a long time before they become plot critical. I just get the impression he's going to do the same with Crystal as he did with Miko and Kubota.



What would she bring to the story? What are her motivations? Killing Haley because she left the Thieves Guild isn't really the goal of a main antagonist in my books. It's fairly dull and blah imo. Worthy of a subplot, but not of the main plot. But perhaps you have a more expansive idea?

If it comes to that, Nale doesn't have a particularly strong motivation either. He wants to kill The Order because Elan turned down his invitation. Not a really good reason, if you ask me. And what is Sabine's motivation exactly? And Thog? I've not read Origin but I get the impression there is a long term enmity between them that predates her leaving the guild. The long term hatred would probably be the best motivation of anyone in the guild.

[Evil DM Mark3]

And what is Sabine's motivation exactly?As she says when fighting Roy in the warehouse, Nale has real evil potential and she is there to foster that. Also to keep an eye out for anything that can alter the cosmic balance of good and evil.
And Thog?Puppies, ice cream and fun, or quite possibly the fact that it has never crossed his mind (ideas tend not to, it cold an lonely out there) not to.

[AKA_Bait]

Wait, I know how Belkar's gonna die!

:belkar: Another Kobold? Goddamn, what's your stupid name? Yuk Yuk? Yoik Yoik?

Kobold: Actually, my name is Pun Pun.

:belkar::eek:

Nah.

:vaarsuvius: You know there are no candles of invocation, sarruhk or Pazuzu in this setting right?

:belkar:

Kobold: Oh crap. Um... magic missile?

[chiasaur11]

Nah.

:vaarsuvius: You know there are no candles of invocation, sarruhk or Pazuzu in this setting right?

:belkar:

Kobold: Oh crap. Um... magic missile?

...
Who says he came from this setting?

Interdimensional travel.

It gets scary.

[Lamech]

Sabine told her superiors about the gate, so they are going to want a piece of the world altering cosmic power. I predict that the linear guild will have support from those guys, and quite possibly they'll all have some sort of demonic power to make them a threat. Or possibly fiendish allies that are even more of a threat than Sabine. If the linear guild hit Elan right now they might be able to do some serious damage. I'm betting the linear guild will have fiendish help in their next incarnation.

[Studoku]

Here's my theory about Belkar's opposite...

Minsc and Boo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsc)

[Linkavitch]

Gods, I hope Celia isn't recruited into the Order. She's not a fan of killing things, and that's kind of what an adventurer does.
Crystal doesn't seem like enough of a minion character to be recruited by Nale.

Are you kidding? She's totally a minion, so long as she gets to kill stuff!

[stickygoo]

going with the whole evil opposites thing, shouldn't Belkar's actually be a good opposite? well, as far as we know that last one couldv'e been good. we just didn't have much time to find out before he was made into salsa.

[Linkavitch]

Hey, what if the Linear Guild recruit the Oracle? (Totally being not serious, here.)

[hamishspence]

yes: War and XPs said that.

[David Argall]

The Giant has a habit of introducing characters a long time before they become plot critical. I just get the impression he's going to do the same with Crystal as he did with Miko and Kubota.

Crystal, as with Miko and Kubota, is location bound. [Miko and Kubota also got effectively one showing in the previous book. Just a foreshadow. Crystal is already plot involved. So she gets dealt with now.] They all lack good reason to be chasing after the party when it heads off to the next gate in 70 or so strips. [So she would really like to dice her? She has shown no desire to leave her comfortable life in Greysky to do so.] So they are unlikely to become continuing characters. Now the writer can make them such if desired, but the presumption is we will see nothing of them after the end of the current book.

[chiasaur11]

Hey, what if the Linear Guild recruit the Oracle? (Totally being not serious, here.)

I'd give the guild a couple of hours before getting backstabbed into a brilliant and humiliating trap while the Oracle laughs all the way to the bank.

[AceOfFools]

I had been guessing for the new linear guild would be Hilgya as Durkon's opposite.

But now that his goals are to gain control of the Snarl, would even Loki be willing to try and exploit him?

So what would make a solid evil opposite for the dwarf, as there aren't a lot of gods willing to expose themselves to the risk associated with a god killing abomination.

But there is one such god.

I shall call this new goblinoid cleric the Bearer of the Emerald Mantle, who is obsessed with the Contingency Plan.:smallamused:

[Liwen]

So, whose gonna be the next Yik Yik? I vote Yak Yak, who happens to be a fightermage of some sort.


Wait, I know how Belkar's gonna die!

:belkar: Another Kobold? Goddamn, what's your stupid name? Yuk Yuk? Yoik Yoik?

Kobold: Actually, my name is Pun Pun.

:belkar::eek:

I don't get it. Is Pun Pun supposed to be something scary?

[Ramien]

Crystal, as with Miko and Kubota, is location bound. [Miko and Kubota also got effectively one showing in the previous book. Just a foreshadow. Crystal is already plot involved. So she gets dealt with now.] They all lack good reason to be chasing after the party when it heads off to the next gate in 70 or so strips. [So she would really like to dice her? She has shown no desire to leave her comfortable life in Greysky to do so.] So they are unlikely to become continuing characters. Now the writer can make them such if desired, but the presumption is we will see nothing of them after the end of the current book.

Given that Crystal is a personal rival (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html), I forsee her having at least some plot-related presence for some time to come. Considering that the gloves are off with her old guild, Crystal has plenty of reason to come after Haley even after she left the city. Five star protection probably means more than 'if they get out of the city, then we're not going to send anyone after them'.

[MReav]

I don't get it. Is Pun Pun supposed to be something scary?

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Pun-Pun_(DnD_Optimized_Character_Build)

This is what happens when you try to break 3.5 with a lax DM.

[Ron Miel]

Crystal, as with Miko and Kubota, is location bound.

In the first place, Miko wasn't location bound, she came a long way to get the Order.

In the second place, why should Crystal be location bound?



[Miko and Kubota also got effectively one showing in the previous book. Just a foreshadow. Crystal is already plot involved. So she gets dealt with now.]

I don't know, see Kubota's first appearance, as far as I can find
1) http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0412.html
2) http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0413.html
3) http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0414.html

three pages, in which he makes a crude power play, and an assassination attempt.

And likewise, two pages of Crystal so far, in the main comic.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0580.html
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html

It seems they have about the same level of plot relevance.


They all lack good reason to be chasing after the party when it heads off to the next gate in 70 or so strips. [So she would really like to dice her? She has shown no desire to leave her comfortable life in Greysky to do so.] Apart from personal hatred there's the reputation of the thieves guild. They can't possibly allow her to remain alive after robbing one of their best customers. They have to hunt her down and execute her.No way they'll just let her leave the city again.


So they are unlikely to become continuing characters. Now the writer can make them such if desired, but the presumption is we will see nothing of them after the end of the current book.

We'll see. I just get the impression he's setting up a long running plot thread.

[Spiky]

In the first place, Miko wasn't location bound, she came a long way to get the Order.
Very true.


In the second place, why should Crystal be location bound?
Different situation. She is stuck with her Guild, witness their hate of Haley for leaving. As you commented later.

I'm sure she would follow out of the city, but if she lost them she'd never join up with a permanently travelling team like Linear. She'd just go back to Greysky.

[Borris]

I don't get it. Is Pun Pun supposed to be something scary?

Pun Pun is a kobold character that takes advantage of a handful of exotic items and abilities to achieve arbitrarily high ability scores by 12th-level (there are also lower-level versions, as low as level 1, but they require a much more liberal interpretation of the rules). Given a little time Pun Pun can then have near-infinite attack bonuses, saving throws, armor class, hit points, spell DCs, bonus spells, etc. He coul even use his abilities to grant himself divine ranks. Whithin a few days, he'd be as powerful as the Snarl itself.

[Spiky]

I had been guessing for the new linear guild would be Hilgya as Durkon's opposite.


It's real simple about the Linear Guild. It will no longer be opposites, that ship has sailed. Nale said so. Not me, not a post in the forum by G, but the actual character answered this question before it was ever asked. How is that not clear to some people?

Likely they will pick up some more minions, it should have become apparent to Nale that the three of them are not going to defeat the Order. But they won't be playing the opposite game.

[AceOfFools]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0120.html
Doesn't Miko count?


No. That doesn't count, its the last page of the first story arch and serves the sole purposes of marking that fact while showing that the story isn't over.

At that point Miko was an nameless, faceless figure who only showed up for two panels. She got two lines, counting "Yes master," and at that point could have been anything from a paladin with issues sparing the lives of the guilty, to a psychopathic character who lives for the joy of killing every time they get an excuse, to a mindless golem receiving instructions from its master.

Then there isn't an example in book 2 (into 3) at all.

Kubota is the first minor character introduced in book X to be updated to a major antagonist in book X+1.


It's real simple about the Linear Guild. It will no longer be opposites, that ship has sailed. Nale said so. Not me, not a post in the forum by G, but the actual character answered this question before it was ever asked. How is that not clear to some people?

Likely they will pick up some more minions, it should have become apparent to Nale that the three of them are not going to defeat the Order. But they won't be playing the opposite game.
Citation Needed.

[Borris]

Evil opposites or not, the Linear Guild is going to need a divine spellcaster if it wants to have access to some healing. But they've already tried a cleric and a druid. Unless they want to recruit a cleric of another deity (and there's certainly a lot of possibilities there; what about a priest of Tiamat on the western continent?) what choices do they have left? Paladin? Quite impossible. Favored Soul? Spirit Shaman? Dragon Shaman? That may be slidign a bit too far away from core rules. Maybe a bard that actually excels at healing and buffing the party rather than a back-up fighter? But could Nale really overcome his hatred of the class?

[Ron Miel]

It's real simple about the Linear Guild. It will no longer be opposites, that ship has sailed. Nale said so. Not me, not a post in the forum by G, but the actual character answered this question before it was ever asked. How is that not clear to some people?

Just remind me, when did he say that? I don't recall it.

[Emanick]

I've looked through the two strips after #400 I'm fairly sure are the only ones Nale has appeared in, and Nale certainly didn't say anything of the sort. What he did say was "I'm sick and tired of dead weight on this team. I mean, Pompey? What was I thinking?"

[Silverlocke980]

That would blow my mind... also, even ignoring the Roy situation, Belkar is pretty clearly going to get offed at some point in the very near future.

So, yes, I'll agree with your first prediction, but after that, the sky's the limit. Rich's surprised us before.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Crystal and the Linear Guild have met before. See their poker gamehere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html). That could have been sometime after the fall of Azure City when Haley gained that level. Maybe they went to Greysky after the jailbreak and brought discovered that Crystal not only had a similar skill set but was Haley's personal rival. Once Haley somehow kills off the rest of the Thieves' Guild, Crystal will have to take Nale up on his offer.

[Narses]

Crystal and the Linear Guild have met before. See their poker gamehere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html). That could have been sometime after the fall of Azure City when Haley gained that level. Maybe they went to Greysky after the jailbreak and brought discovered that Crystal not only had a similar skill set but was Haley's personal rival. Once Haley somehow kills off the rest of the Thieves' Guild, Crystal will have to take Nale up on his offer.


I don't see any evidence of the Linear Guild in there...
That person's not Sabine, she's the fighter/rogue/sorcerer/bard person from OtOoPCs.

[Raging Gene Ray]

That person's not Sabine, she's the fighter/rogue/sorcerer/bard person from OtOoPCs.

Never read it. But you have to admit, the resemblance is uncanny and the fact that the guy looks like Nale just makes it look more like the LG.

EDIT: Just checked back and realized that "Nale" in that picture has breasts, so it's just a blonde woman.