4E Feat: Chill of the Raven Queen

[Vazzaroth]

Prereq: Must Worship The Raven Queen, Cleric

When you cast a spell that deals Radiant Damage, you can choose to instead deal Necrotic Cold Damage.


/feat

Ok, now I honestly am not sure if this feat would be broken at all. I have only had a bit of Hand-on 4E experience, and don't know how common resistance to Necrotic, etc, is.

We're rolling new characters after a party-wipe (A number of hastily made characters by the DnD noobs we brought in were definitely involved.), and I would like to go for a Cleric of the Raven Queen, because it reminds me of a Priest of Morr I made for a Warhammer FRP game before. Reading through the powers, I can make a "Divine Nuker" (Meaning I can rely on Ranged Damage spells like a mage, not that I'll deal ridic. amounts of damage or anything), but all the Radient Damage seemed a little out of place for a Death God. If there is a better energy type, then by all means, let me know.

Also, should I make this Paragon, or is Heroic a good tier for it?

[Shadow_Elf]

Seems balanced enough. But I think Cold damage is more appropriate. Necrotic is more commonly associated with Undead, which the Raven Queen hates above all else.
Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I am actually currently working on a Paragon Path (Soul Saver of the Raven Queen) and it'll hit these boards soon when its done.

[Vazzaroth]

Very cool. Please, post here if you can remember when it's up (Or PM), I'll look into it.

I'm not too crazy over much of the flavor of 4E, but I really like The Raven Queen, shes everything I ever wanted Wee Jas to be.:smallsmile:

Edit: I do like the Cold damage idea, I just know there is a Cold damage buffing feat, and I didn't know if people would think I wanted it just for that. Although... there is one for Necrotic too so... Meh. I'll leave that up to my DM, the main thing is I don't want it to be Radiant, I'll leave that for Pelor.

[Shadow_Elf]

I just thought of something: Radiant is very appropriate for the Raven Queen. She abhors undead, and so she will probably employ the best tool, radiance, against them. Not cold or necrotic, against which they could be resistant.

Also, the Soul Saver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4982675#post4982675) is up.

Warning: Paragon Path subject to change at the whims PEACH.

[Vazzaroth]

I just don't see her using the same energy that the god of the sun uses, that is glowing golden searing beams. That's what I think of when I think of Radiant. She may hate undead, but shes Goddess of death, not goddess of killing undead, but thats a close second, probably, for sure.

I just see a Death-priest throwing dark balls of Death-energy at his foes, not shining bursts. Again, not to be evil, it's just that Death-energy (Negative?) has a bad stereotype about it. Probably not good, but not necessarily evil. At least that's how I feel about it.

It doesn't help that we don't have much to go off of from Core. Are deities discussed in any more detail anywhere else, or do I just have to wait for Planar Handbook?

Like I said, Im interpreting her to be like Morr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morr) from Warhammer.

[Vadin]

Might she use Force damage? It would make sense for her. She isn't elementally afilliated (no fire, cold, etc.), she doesn't use shining divine brightness (no radiant), she doesn't use the power of the undead (no necrotic), so what does that leave? Untyped damage, which is still and option, and force damage. Either one would kind of make sense for the Raven Queen.

[Shadow_Elf]

Well, I'm comparing her to Kelemvor, FR god of the dead. His Doomguides, holy warriors given extra magic from him to punish necromancers and the cults of the undead, employ radiant damage on all of their attacks. And, if anything, Kelemvor is more dark than the Raven Queen. Her emblem is, well, a raven. His is a skeletal hand clutching a balance, which has a more dead feel to me. I think that probably all gods employ some radiant attacks, no matter what their portfolio is. Radiant isn't linked to the sun so much as it is linked to divinity, which applies to all the gods.

[Vazzaroth]

Again though, thats a PrC based around killing undead. As a priest of her, Im based around making people respect the dead and death itself.

Overall, I guess I would be happy with just saying My Radiant Damage spells are more of a Dark Glow (If you can visualize that, think "black light"), but a game effect for that would be cool, is all.

[Rigon]

excuse me but i do think that radiant isn't simply light damage.
as far as i can *imagine* radiant damage can come from 3 sources:
- light powers (like: from everbrimming lightbulb of doom)
- divine powers (like: any cleric spell power)
- plutonium dragons (yes i want to have 4ed munchkin)

and yes, The Raven Queen is kinda anti-undead.

as far as i know cleric radiant powers do xD6 damage... so how about:
whenever you roll damage against undead with a radiant power replace the dices used with the next higher one (d8 instead of d6, d10 instead of d8, d12 instead of d10, d20 instead of d12... okay that last one is scary).

EDIT: or simply add +1 damage per dice used

[Shadow_Elf]

^ Note: You never roll d20s for damage. Also, dice progression is like this (if it remember correctly)

d4-d6-d8-2d4-d10-d12-2d6-2d8-2d10-2d12

[Mando Knight]

- plutonium dragons (yes i want to have 4ed munchkin)

Don't you mean Ancient Gibbering Blasphemous Plutonium Dragon Mates In a Black Helicopter? :smalltongue: (Fantasy Munchkin-thulhu Impossible FTW!)

It would make sense that the Raven Queen give Necrotic powers to her clerics, and somewhere I read that one possibility for Evil clerics is to give them Necrotic prayers... though Undead tend to be resistant to Necrotics and vulnerable to Radiance... make the Power of the Raven Queen turn the energy to Necrotic Radiant damage, giving it all of the benefits and none of the penalties of both! (unless the target's resistant to both...)

[LurkerInPlayground]

Well, I'm comparing her to Kelemvor, FR god of the dead. His Doomguides, holy warriors given extra magic from him to punish necromancers and the cults of the undead, employ radiant damage on all of their attacks. And, if anything, Kelemvor is more dark than the Raven Queen. Her emblem is, well, a raven. His is a skeletal hand clutching a balance, which has a more dead feel to me. I think that probably all gods employ some radiant attacks, no matter what their portfolio is. Radiant isn't linked to the sun so much as it is linked to divinity, which applies to all the gods.
So you're saying that Kelemvor is "gothier" than the Raven Queen because his SYMBOL is "gothier"?

Right. . .

Putting aside that ravens are generally regarded as harbingers of death, what difference does it make that one god is superficially "darker"? For the most part, both the Raven Queen and Kelemvor fulfill nearly similar functions.

The main difference is that the Raven Queen punishes the "hubris" of those who try to cast off the "chains of fate." Kelemvor is more fleshed-out and is portrayed as a cold, though fair, judge of the dead.

I like the cold damage idea for the flavor perspective, especially since the Raven Queen fluff describes her as the patroness of winter. And from a mechanical perspective, it doesn't preclude the player from using radiant damage either.

In any case, I don't see any problems making up your own fluff. The core 4e setting seems to have been deliberately created to generate a loose framework for the player's adventures. So write in whatever you feel like, how you feel like.

For example, nothing precludes from creating different sects of the same god. In a way, it's a bit annoying that the priesthood for a god is often without differences in region/geography/culture and usually behave stereotypically.

[Mando Knight]

So you're saying that Kelemvor is gothier than the Raven Queen because his SYMBOL is gothier?

Dark =/= goth. Unless in your world the Batman is goth... or Lovecraftian horror... or the night... or Death itself...

[LurkerInPlayground]

Dark =/= goth. Unless in your world the Batman is goth...
My point is that you're investing too much into the superficial imagery. Goths care too much about the appearance of being "dark." Neither is really substantive when you can just rewrite the 4e core fluff to suit your game.

I see no reason just saying, "Sure, the Raven Queen has a sect of undead-slaying clergy who use radiant damage in their work."

I'd then justify it by saying that the Raven Queen is a god whose knowledge of death would also pertain to knowledge of the primal stuff that makes up life. (i.e. "radiant energy") She knows perfectly well what makes these quaint little undead dolls tick and how to unravel their functions.

If you have trouble resolving the contradiction between "bright and holy" with "dark and gothy" you're getting too caught-up in stereotypes and the idea that opposites always conflict.

This is particularly true since neither Kelemvor nor the Raven Queen really take a stance on "good versus evil." As far as they're concerned, they think of themselves above such crude dualisms.

[Vazzaroth]

I forgot the Patron of Winter thing. I think that sealed the deal for dealing Cold damage for me. Of course, you can switch if you'd like. Im going to edit the feat.

[Rigon]

Don't you mean Ancient Gibbering Blasphemous Plutonium Dragon Mates In a Black Helicopter? :smalltongue: (Fantasy Munchkin-thulhu Impossible FTW!)

It would make sense that the Raven Queen give Necrotic powers to her clerics, and somewhere I read that one possibility for Evil clerics is to give them Necrotic prayers... though Undead tend to be resistant to Necrotics and vulnerable to Radiance... make the Power of the Raven Queen turn the energy to Necrotic Radiant damage, giving it all of the benefits and none of the penalties of both! (unless the target's resistant to both...)

1) plutonium dragons are strongest at their birth... (you read the munchkin monster manual? ancient plutonium dragons are the weakest)

2) doing necrotic damage is no problem as long
a) it does not heal (or target) undead(s)
b) it does not create undead(s)

3) but i do think that doing cold damage is ... i don't know... not-ravenish?

[Mando Knight]

1) plutonium dragons are strongest at their birth... (you read the munchkin monster manual? ancient plutonium dragons are the weakest)

Heh... I was thinking of the card game, which I think came first... and that game's Ancient... card doesn't say "Opposite effect for Plutonium Dragons."

[Rigon]

uhm you forgot an important rule from the card game.

when you come to an argument about the rules then the more aggressive player is right.

AM I CLEAR?!:smallfurious:

:smallsmile:

[Shadow_Elf]

3) but i do think that doing cold damage is ... i don't know... not-ravenish?

Winter is in her portfolio...

[Rigon]

winter... hmm.
i'm sorry i overlooked that one.
no more arguments. cold is the new radiant.
(actually +1 element looks good in any cleric portfolio so it's kinda good)

[Mando Knight]

when you come to an argument about the rules then the more aggressive player is right.

AM I CLEAR?!:smallfurious:

Unless the game's owner disagrees with him.