Brisingr

[Linkavitch]

Frankly, I'm suprised no one has posted something like this yet. This thread is for reveiws on the new book by Christopher Paulini, Brisingr. (Pronounced Bri-sing-ger, for those of you that didn't know.) The only reason I am not posting a reveiw on this yet, is because my sister is reading the book, and 'm not allowed to read it till she's done. but, as soon as I have read it, I will post my own review. And please, if you sincerely don't like Inheritance, and do not have anything to post but trash talk on it, please do not post.

[DraPrime]

What if I post clear and intelligent criticism? That isn't really trash talk.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I've always treated the series as just some semi-interesting light reading. Not a big fan but nor do I think its worth trashing. I don't think the series deserves the huge following by a long shot, but nor does it deserve the absolute lambasting it also gets.

I read the third and found it to be by far the least interesting of the series. I found myself just wanting to skip over entire paragraphs.

Personally I think he should have gone with the original plan and make this book and the next just one big book and take out all the filler. It had a distinct feeling of being artificially lengthened in my opinion.

[Setra]

I've always treated the series as just some semi-interesting light reading. Not a big fan but nor do I think its worth trashing. I don't think the series deserves the huge following by a long shot, but nor does it deserve the absolute lambasting it also gets.

I read the third and found it to be by far the least interesting of the series. I found myself just wanting to skip over entire paragraphs.

Personally I think he should have gone with the original plan and make this book and the next just one big book and take out all the filler. It had a distinct feeling of being artificially lengthened in my opinion.
My feelings are nicely summed up here as well.

[Linkavitch]

What if I post clear and intelligent criticism? That isn't really trash talk.

No, that's fine.

[DraPrime]

No, that's fine.

Now that I think of it there's nothing I can say that hasn't been said before. There's the obvious Star Wars similarities, the Lord of the Rings similarities, the Earthsea similarities, the....

Hold on I think I see a pattern here.

[Fan]

Why do I seem to like everything that draws so much hate?
I personally DESPISE the movies, and am in the process of reading the thrd book, and honestly i don't see why so many people hate on a decent book just because it has similarites to some great series.

[Trizap]

I agree with you FF Fanboy, I like the Inheritance Series , its a good story, worth reading, I have no idea why everyone hates it.

[DraPrime]

Why do I seem to like everything that draws so much hate?
I personally DESPISE the movies, and am in the process of reading the thrd book, and honestly i don't see why so many people hate on a decent book just because it has similarites to some great series.

I don't hate it so much as find it irritating. And it isn't "just some similarities." It's much more.

[warty goblin]

Why do I seem to like everything that draws so much hate?
I personally DESPISE the movies, and am in the process of reading the thrd book, and honestly i don't see why so many people hate on a decent book just because it has similarites to some great series.

I think you put your finger on it right there- its mediocre/decent, but is remeniscent of many better books. Hence the reader will be proceeding through the book, read something, go "that's sorta cool", followed shortly by the "wait, I've seen this before" and then "and it was better then as well." From that's its a short jump to "why aren't I reading something better? This continually reminds me that I could be through 'subtle' references to better books, yet never measures up."

Right there we've got disillusionment, which leads to bitterness, to anger, followed closely by hate, which leads to the Dark Side, which leads to Revenge of the Clones, which leads to The Phantom Menace, which leads to vein-popping nerd rage. Now clearly anything that reminds the reader of The Phantom Menace is very, very bad. Hence the reader becomes angry at their hatred, for making them think of The Phantom Menace, followed by their anger, bitterness, disillusionment, and then at what they are disillusioned with- which is the Inheritance Trilogy. Viola, nerd rage directed at the Inheritance trilogy in just 37 easy steps.

[Kane]

I read them, and didn't think much of them when I did. (Back in middle school.) I did, however, think they were a bit like Star Wars, original trilogy, except in fantasy format. I did not, however, articulate this as well as someone else did on the last Eragon thread I read:

It's odd that no one mentions this (as far as I can tell) on that website. It probably isn't anything new, but i enjoy saying it.

(this is according to the film, because it fits even better)

A rebel princess, carrying the rebellion's last hope, is being chased by Imperial Soldiers, so she jettisons it off to parts unknown. She is then captured and interrogated by a magical swordsmen.

Meanwhile, the rebellion's last hope is found by a young farmboy, who is living with his aunt and uncle in the the middle of nowhere. The mysterious old man of the village learns of it. From the mysterious old man, he learns of an anicent race of guardians. These noble warriors, who fought with colored swords and had magic far beyond ordinary men, enforced peace and justice for thousands of years. One day an overambitious pupil betrayed his master, and destroyed the order, creating an evil empire.

The mysterious old man was a member of this ancient order, and will now begin to teach the young farmboy, who will be the final member of that order. Meanwhile, the farmboy's home is destroyed by agents of the empire, and he arrives to find his adopted parent's all burned and nasty looking. He burns the bodies.

He embarks on a journey, and finds the Evil Fortress, where he rescues the rebel princess. Unfortunately, the evil magic swordsmen appears, by the mysterious old man sacrifices himself so they can escape with their newfound friend, who is a rogue and likes to look cool.

They journey to the rebel base, where the young farmboy, using his newfound powers, saves the day in a spectatular ariel battle, with lots of explosions, and defeats the magic swordsmen.

...

Then, of course, in the second part he journeys to a forest and meets a mysterious old man, who is the last and greatest of the order.

Personally, I wish he'd been more honest about just LOTRizing star wars, but I feel it is nicely done and was a decent read.

So yeah; it was both.

Thusly.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Why do I seem to like everything that draws so much hate?
I personally DESPISE the movies, and am in the process of reading the thrd book, and honestly i don't see why so many people hate on a decent book just because it has similarites to some great series.

I will almost certainly be ninja'd by someone far more intelligent and articulate than me. But I'll give it a shot.

There would be absolutely no problems if there were some similarities to other books. That's only natural in writing, as everyone builds off everyone else. What was that quote about standing on the shoulders of giants?

The problem is that, besides the horrible writing in general, as well as the intense unlikeability of the author himself and how they've marketed the book, is that he doesn't borrow ideas from other works. He outright copies them. There are many, many things in Eragon that are incredibly blatant rip-offs of everything from Lord of the Rings to Dragonriders of Pern. Not to mention the massive summary someone came up with that reads word-for-word as a summary of both Eragon and Star Wars.

If you really want my full opinion on Eragon, the folks at Anti-Shurtugal (http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/wordpress/) have many, many well-researched and funny articles on why it's so bad. I further direct anyone in need of comic-relief over to Eragon Sporkings (http://eragon-sporkings.wikispaces.com/).

tl;dr version: The Inheritance Trilogy Cycle is a blatant piece of derivative muck.

EDIT: And yes, I have read the books, and I'll probably snag Brisingr from my library in the vain hope that it gets better.

[Bryn]

What was that quote about standing on the shoulders of giants?
Isaac Newton, talking about his discoveries, in a letter to Robert Hooke.

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.

That aside, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Eragon-bashing is a dead horse by now, guys. I'd heap on a bunch of adjectives explaining how dead it its, but even that's a dead horse by now. We know that you (collective you) don't like Eragon by now. We know why.

As somebody who doesn't hold any opinion on Eragon*, just let the people who like Eragon carry on liking it and stop trying to convince them that they should be hating it. Thank you. :smallwink:

[Stupendous_Man]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InheritanceCycle?from=Main.TheInheritanceTrilogy

The writing was okay, I guess. But I couldn't take it anymore after Harry returned from his first run-in with the Dementors to find the Ring Wraiths had burned the Lars Homestead.

[DraPrime]

As somebody who doesn't hold any opinion on Eragon*, just let the people who like Eragon carry on liking it and stop trying to convince them that they should be hating it. Thank you. :smallwink:

But this is the internet! (http://xkcd.com/386/)

[Rogue 7]

Could someone post a plot summary? I want to find out what happens, but I don't think I could handle reading another tale in "The Adventures of Gary Stu".

[Guts]

There's one on its wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisingr). I'm not sure whether I wanna read the 3rd book, the previous two have been pretty 'meh' for me.

[Seraph]

I agree with you FF Fanboy, I like the Inheritance Series , its a good story, worth reading, I have no idea why everyone hates it.

because it's poorly written, has no original ideas, and by far the majority of people on this forum could write better stories than it. Paolini isn't published because of grand skill, he's published because his parents own their own publishing company and spoil him to no end.

[Mr.Bookworm]

because it's poorly written, has no original ideas, and by far the majority of people on this forum could write better stories than it. Paolini isn't published because of grand skill, he's published because his parents own their own publishing company and spoil him to no end.

It got picked up by a far bigger publisher.

What Paolini really needs is a good dagger straight to his over-inflated ego, a good editor, and someone to teach how to write. It seriously feels like he got stuck on his writing style and imagination (or lack thereof) when he was thirteen and writing bad fanfics. Though thinking on it, he seriously needs a good editor the most. Eragon feels like the most editing that it ever went through was spellcheck.

[Helanna]

Watch out for that Eragon Sporkings site. I loved it at first, it was great. But then it got petty, picking on stupid little things, and picking on things that were actually pretty good. By the time the author claimed that Robert Jordan had no idea how societies work, I quit reading.

Plot summary of Brisingr, in my opinion, boils down to:

a) Eragon needs a sword. Seriously, I got sick of this the second time it was mentioned. So get a freakin' sword already!

b)

Eragon's real father is Brom. Still not sure how I feel about this.

c) Some stuff about Roran, he didn't do anything particularly useful and I don't really like him, so . . . meh.

All in all, it's filler was worse than the Wheel of Time books. Wouldn't be bad (I love the WoT books), except that the writing itself tends to suck. Definitely intentionally drawn out - I can't honestly think of a single thing after about the third chapter that couldn't have been wrapped up in about two chapters, tops.

[Mr. Scaly]

I will say this about the Inheritance Cycle, it does end up giving me some very amusing links to laugh over.

[Rogue 7]

Eragon's real father is Brom. Still not sure how I feel about this.


I bet you a shiny new dime that that was a retcon so the author could say "See, it's not like Star Wars!"

It is, of course, just as big a cliche. And this guy was living for years next to his son and he didn't think to say "hey, boy, I'm your daddy"?

[DraPrime]

I bet you a shiny new dime that that was a retcon so the author could say "See, it's not like Star Wars!"

It is, of course, just as big a cliche. And this guy was living for years next to his son and he didn't think to say "hey, boy, I'm your daddy"?


He didn't think of saying that because Paolini thought of this only to refute the star wars accusations.

[Stupendous_Man]

There's one on its wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisingr). I'm not sure whether I wanna read the 3rd book, the previous two have been pretty 'meh' for me.


"In Brisingr, one of the characters becomes pregnant."

lolz all around.

Eragon is now a soap opera...

[MyrddinDerwydd]

I just got my copy yesterday and haven't had a chance to start in on it yet, but we definitely need to leave that deplorable sham of a movie-Eragon out of this :smallannoyed:

And anyone that's dense enough to think that all good writing has to be completely original hasn't done much research. The greatest writers of all time aren't great because they came up with something new, they're great because they tapped into ideas and themes that we all know, and made them into something great and memorable. Every quest story, exploring a new frontier, coming of age, save the girl, choosing between wrong-easy and right-hard, all of those types of stories and more have been around for thousands, tens of thousands of years. What a good writer adds are the details that make the old stories memorable to their new audience.


Rock On, Collective Unconscious!

However. I can already tell that Paolini has "i'masuccessfulseriesauthorsoeveryonewillbuymybooks nomatterhowlongtheyget becausetheywanttogettherestofthestory" syndrome. Like RJordan, JKRowling, and many others.

Other authors get "wooihaveasuccessfulseriessonowicanwriteamillionsho rtstoriesinthesamebitwiththesamecharacters" syndrome. *cough* Terry Pratchett *cough*

[Rogue 7]

I just got my copy yesterday and haven't had a chance to start in on it yet, but we definitely need to leave that deplorable sham of a movie-Eragon out of this :smallannoyed:

And anyone that's dense enough to think that all good writing has to be completely original hasn't done much research. The greatest writers of all time aren't great because they came up with something new, they're great because they tapped into ideas and themes that we all know, and made them into something great and memorable. Every quest story, exploring a new frontier, coming of age, save the girl, choosing between wrong-easy and right-hard, all of those types of stories and more have been around for thousands, tens of thousands of years. What a good writer adds are the details that make the old stories memorable to their new audience.


Ayup. All that requires is a good writer. :smallamused:

[Stupendous_Man]

What a good writer adds are the details that make the old stories memorable to their new audience.


What does a bad writer do?

[MyrddinDerwydd]

What does a bad writer do?

adds the details that make the reader fall asleep or run away screaming.

[Stupendous_Man]

adds the details that make the reader fall asleep or run away screaming.

I have discovered the cure to my insomnia.

[MyrddinDerwydd]

I have discovered the cure to my insomnia.

Good Writing?

[snoopy13a]

I read the first book. I thought it was decent but I really don't have interest in reading any further.

As for everyone saying that they could write better, start writing. I eagerly await your novel.

[Trizap]

yea, look how many books still use good and evil, its unoriginal, as thousands of other books have done that, but people still read the books cause its taps into the ideas and into the drama, I say as long as it makes a good story, I don't care.

if you truly want something original, make something original yourself, and stop beating a dead horse, stop complaining about how unoriginal it is, move on to make something original, instead of wasting your time unproductively complaining about something thats unoriginal; really the hate aimed against this has been done to death, its old news, don't keep repeating yourselves.

you want originality? do it yourself, your all intelligent people, and you all post in a heavily DnD based forum, should be something you can pull off.

[Reinforcements]

I read the first few chapters at Barnes and Noble the other day. (When I left off, Eragon and Roran were about to assault Helgrind... which now that I think about it is where they were as the book opened, too. Huh. Oh, I guess I should do this...

Nothing happens for the first few chapters.
Anyway! It was just as terrible as the first two, as far as I went. Eragon still talks like no person has ever talked and Paolini still can't just get to the damn point. I'll probably buy it eventually, as long as I'm sure I can return it. (Of course, I returned Eldest, for store credit anyway, over a year after I got it. God bless you, Borders.)

[Deth Muncher]

post:
I read the first book. I thought it was decent but I really don't have interest in reading any further.

As for everyone saying that they could write better, start writing. I eagerly await your novel.



you want originality? do it yourself, your all intelligent people, and you all post in a heavily DnD based forum, should be something you can pull off.



http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4369859/1/The_Stupendously_Superior_Story

Someone's already on it.

[Shosuro Ishii]

you want originality? do it yourself, your all intelligent people, and you all post in a heavily DnD based forum, should be something you can pull off.

No offense, but the 'well, if you don't like it, you should go do better' is really a sign that you have no other defense for your point other than to insult those taking an opposite side.

[Stupendous_Man]

No offense, but the 'well, if you don't like it, you should go do better' is really a sign that you have no other defense for your point other than to insult those taking an opposite side.
i think deth just called them out with his story.

[snoopy13a]

i think deth just called them out.

I fail to see how anyone got called out. Now, the person who was writing that fan-fiction has a nice flow to his writing (even with the Eregon-esque two sentence paragraphs :smalltongue: ) but the story doesn't work out. I realize that it is supposed to be a satire of Eregon but it really doesn't work.

Satirizing a children's book is a bit odd. What's next, Dr. Seuss?

[snoopy13a]

No offense, but the 'well, if you don't like it, you should go do better' is really a sign that you have no other defense for your point other than to insult those taking an opposite side.

You mean other then: "Eragon is awful"

So you don't like book. Big deal. Many people actually do like it. Anyway, I believe the OP wanted discussion limited to those who are actually interested in the sequel book.

[Stupendous_Man]

I fail to see how anyone got called out. Now, the person who was writing that fan-fiction has a nice flow to his writing (even with the Eregon-esque two sentence paragraphs :smalltongue: ) but the story doesn't work out. I realize that it is supposed to be a satire of Eregon but it really doesn't work.

Satirizing a children's book is a bit odd. What's next, Dr. Seuss?

How is it a satire of Eragon?

I see no dragons for starters.

[Deth Muncher]

i think deth just called them out with his story.

Whoa there homeskillet. This isn't my story. I don't have enough free time for this. This belongs to the guy who made the Sorceror Strategy Guide in my signature, who's name I dare not speak lest the Moderators attack me.

[Trizap]

ummmmmmmm.........I wasn't insulting anyone. :smallcool:

I wasn't saying to do better, I was saying you could create your own stories
that are original and unique, that you have the potential to make something you can appreciate, instead of wasting time hating over something that isn't you appreciate, really I'm not insulting anyone when I say: there is really no point to keep bashing Paolini and the Inheritance Cycle if you hate it, then why do you keep posting about it? if you hate it, then just don't post in this thread, leave it alone, a wise man once said "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all" :smallsmile:

and I think it applies here, it really is pointless to come here and say negative things about it for no other reason than to say you hate it for XXXXX reasons, and antagonize everyone who likes it, it would be like picking a fight with a bunch of bullies just to show you hate them, it wouldn't accomplish anything, really I'm not insulting you, I don't hate you, I'm not trying to antagonize you, I just disagree with you over the combined ink printed in certain shapes that form our alphabet combined into one big long string of words printed across hundreds of pages really I find it humorous that so much is generated from a bunch of ink and paper really, is that all worth arguing over? :smallbiggrin:

to get to the point, I really do not hate you, in any way, I am just saying that we all have our different opinions about everything and that its impossible for you to change those opinions by going up to them and saying "I hate W for X, Y, and Z reasons" and its really pointless to pick fights over such a trivial thing, and that when you are busy pointlessly arguing, getting nowhere, you could be spending your time doing something productive, something you can like, something you can love, something that makes you happy, go do that, go, be happy, why are you stuck here being mad? go be happy, leave us alone, and we will leave you alone, and everyone will be content, is that so hard?

Is that so hard? :smallfrown:

[Stupendous_Man]

I find it humorous that so much is generated from a bunch of ink and paper really, is that all worth arguing over?

Ink forms words, words are symbols, symbols represent ideas, ideas are argued over.

[Trizap]

Ink forms words, words are symbols, symbols represent ideas, ideas are argued over.

you misquoted me, and missed the point.

why are you here, being mad and negative? go be happy, go do something you like, I'm just saying, go do something that is worth doing, something that makes you happy, because if something makes you happy, its worth doing, the people here hating on Eragon here are clearly not happy, therefore they aren't doing something worth doing, is it really so hard, to stop doing something pointless, and go do something that makes you happy? :smallsmile:

[Stupendous_Man]

why are you here, being mad and negative?

I believe you missed my point.

I'm saying people aren't arguing over "ink and paper", they're arguing over something more... abstract. The "quality" of a book.

[streakster]

Ink forms words, words are symbols, symbols represent ideas, ideas are argued over.

Ideas are knowledge, knowledge is power, power is energy, energy = E, E=mc^2. That equation helped build the atomic bomb, which killed a lot of people.

Thus, this is life or death, man!

[Trizap]

I believe you missed my point.

I'm saying people aren't arguing over "ink and paper", they're arguing over something more... abstract. The "quality" of a book.

I concede to you on that point, your right, :smallcool:

but really, is it worth arguing over? arguing over religion, I can understand, arguing over war, I can understand, arguing over any number of important things of our world, I can understand, but really, this is a piece of entertainment, whats the point of being mad and negative over it, when you could be doing something that makes you happy?

[Stupendous_Man]

I concede to you on that point, your right, :smallcool:

but really, is it worth arguing over? arguing over religion, I can understand, arguing over war, I can understand, arguing over any number of important things of our world, I can understand, but really, this is a piece of entertainment, whats the point of being mad and negative over it, when you could be doing something that makes you happy?

ah, but some people are happy arguing...

[MeklorIlavator]

Obviously, you missed the point of this:

But this is the internet! (http://xkcd.com/386/)

[Trizap]

I am sorry Meklor, but I do not see how a webcomic of a stick figure has anything to do with this :smallamused:

Stup, really, if there are people happy arguing, then they derive pleasure from the pain of others, which has even less of a point than doing something you hate, as you'd be causing more pain than pleasure in doing so, which means its all the more important not to start arguments, really everyone here in this thread would be happier if no hater came in here and started bashing Brisingr, we would all be happier if we just stopped arguing now and left the Eragon fans to discuss how they like Eragon, and the Eragon haters to go discuss how they hate Eragon somewhere else.

[averagejoe]

Ideas are knowledge, knowledge is power, power is energy, energy = E, E=mc^2. That equation helped build the atomic bomb, which killed a lot of people.

Thus, this is life or death, man!

Sorry, but power is energy per time. And E=squrt[(mc^2)^2+(pc)^2] The other one just fits better on a t-shirt.

(Which, don't get me wrong, is a valid goal in physics. :smallcool: )


Stup, really, if there are people happy arguing, then they derive pleasure from the pain of others, which has even less of a point than doing something you hate, as you'd be causing more pain than pleasure in doing so, which means its all the more important not to start arguments, really everyone here in this thread would be happier if no hater came in here and started bashing Brisingr, we would all be happier if we just stopped arguing now and left the Eragon fans to discuss how they like Eragon, and the Eragon haters to go discuss how they hate Eragon somewhere else.

:smallconfused: Why should argument cause pain? For the most part, this sort of thing isn't about hate, it's about the exchange of ideas, something which many people find satisfying. I see no reason why anyone should be hurt by that. Granted, people sometimes try a little too hard to promote conflict, but I still don't see why anyone should let that get to them.

[Jayngfet]

I hope it handles pregnancy better than a certan FR character, an elf, the mary sue, not Drizzt, moar blatant...

And a vegan in leather?

[Mc. Lovin']

Well I read the plot summary on wiki. Most of the Eragon seems alright, but then I saw all the Roran stuff, like the 20 missions he has to go on. And he single handedly kills 193 soldiers? I don't think so =/

[Reinforcements]

And a vegan in leather?
There's some blantant ret-con explanation or other about how it's really tree-bark or they ask the animals nicely to give them their skin or something.

[Stupendous_Man]

There's some blantant ret-con explanation

another one?

[MeklorIlavator]

I am sorry Meklor, but I do not see how a webcomic of a stick figure has anything to do with this :smallamused:
Uh...how about reading the comic then applying to online debates. Cause, you know, that's kinda the whole point...

[Sir_Norbert]

yea, look how many books still use good and evil, its unoriginal, as thousands of other books have done that, but people still read the books cause its taps into the ideas and into the drama, I say as long as it makes a good story, I don't care.

if you truly want something original, make something original yourself, and stop beating a dead horse, stop complaining about how unoriginal it is, move on to make something original, instead of wasting your time unproductively complaining about something thats unoriginal; really the hate aimed against this has been done to death, its old news, don't keep repeating yourselves.

you want originality? do it yourself, your all intelligent people, and you all post in a heavily DnD based forum, should be something you can pull off.
(1) I am a writer. Does that mean I have to spend every second of my waking hours writing? Is having something else I want to do somehow "wasting my time"? You may not be a writer, but I'm sure you have some ambitions in life. If you think posting on an internet forum is wasting time for me, then why isn't it for you?

(1b) Good writing requires thought. I find that having my writing open and then doing other things when I'm stuck on a sentence helps me get it done faster.

(2) You complain about the arguments being painful. Arguments would be less painful if the people in them were civil to each other. Civility requires more than just using polite language; it requires listening. If you think the people who are saying "Eragon is unoriginal" are saying "Eragon is unoriginal because it has good and evil in it, which has been done before" then you haven't listened. (I apologise if that's not what you meant; but to me, what you said and the way you put it comes across that way.) But I'm going to say a lot more about the unoriginality argument below.

(2b) Eragon doesn't have good and evil in it anyway. It has this Empire which we're meant to think is evil because everyone tells us it is. Not the same thing.

* * *


And anyone that's dense enough to think that all good writing has to be completely original hasn't done much research

Oddly enough, I don't think that. What I think is that all good writing has to have enough originality that when I pick up the book and start it, I don't know where it will end.

Suppose, for instance, I find out in the first chapter that Mr Smith likes Miss Jones. Well, I can think of quite a few ways that might turn out:
(1) They get married and live happily ever after
(2) He realises she isn't right for him and finds someone else
(3) He loses her and is miserable because of this for the rest of his life
(4) He dies heroically to save her so she can be happy with someone else
(5) They both commit suicide because each thinks the other is dead

And so on and so on. Nothing "original" there; all five of those endings have been done before. But then the second chapter introduces Miss Robinson, let's say, who likes Smith and is jealous of his liking of Miss Jones. There are also several ways that could turn out. To keep things simple, let's say five. That means twenty-five possible combinations for the ending of the Smith/Jones relationship and the ending of the Smith/Robinson relationship. Not all combinations will be possible (Smith can't both die and survive) but the general rule, that the number of possible combinations goes up exponentially as more factors are introduced, still applies. The tropes may be old, but there are plenty of unusued combinations waiting to be used.

A book that blindly copies the plot of a previous source is unsatisfying because you pretty well know from the start how all its component factors are going to turn out in the end. The author can try to complicate matters by adding lots of extra minor factors that weren't present in the source he was copying, but minor factors are... well, minor. It's not enough to make the book a good book if some of its minor factors finish in a way that surprises you.


As for everyone saying that they could write better, start writing. I eagerly await your novel.
Sorry, but I'm not going to send it to you because I'm in the process of getting it sent off to a publisher right now and I don't want to take unnecessary risks. I'm glad to know that you're looking forward to reading it though.

[Linkavitch]

As somebody who doesn't hold any opinion on Eragon*, just let the people who like Eragon carry on liking it and stop trying to convince them that they should be hating it. Thank you. :smallwink:

Hear, hear!

[Linkavitch]

Well I read the plot summary on wiki. Most of the Eragon seems alright, but then I saw all the Roran stuff, like the 20 missions he has to go on. And he single handedly kills 193 soldiers? I don't think so =/

He, who? He, Eragon, who has arcane power similar to :vaarsuvius:, and more fighting prowess than :roy:? Or he, Roran, normal guy, who, as I recall, never counted more than a dozen or so before Teirm.

[DraPrime]

I concede to you on that point, your right, :smallcool:

but really, is it worth arguing over? arguing over religion, I can understand, arguing over war, I can understand, arguing over any number of important things of our world, I can understand, but really, this is a piece of entertainment, whats the point of being mad and negative over it, when you could be doing something that makes you happy?

Arguing does make me happy. Especially arguing about something like Eragon. Thinks that get far more praise and money than they deserve irritate me to no end, and Eragon is no exception.

Also, is anyone wondering how a farmer boy like Roran suddenly became a masterful warrior and battle strategist?

[Mc. Lovin']

He, who? He, Eragon, who has arcane power similar to :vaarsuvius:, and more fighting prowess than :roy:? Or he, Roran, normal guy, who, as I recall, never counted more than a dozen or so before Teirm.

It was Roran. I could understand if it was eragon, I mean he could just do that thing where he takes everyone's energy. But no, Roran.

Some quotes from the first chapter (Yeah, I gots the book)
After cutting up someone's arm with some white linnen - "Wet blotches quickly sullied the virgin cloth"

So who's the target audience with that? Cus not many kids are gonna be getting this stuff. Seems way too wordsy. Like someone said earlier, it seems that no-one has edited this stuff :smallannoyed:

[warty goblin]

Arguing does make me happy. Especially arguing about something like Eragon. Thinks that get far more praise and money than they deserve irritate me to no end, and Eragon is no exception.

Also, is anyone wondering how a farmer boy like Roran suddenly became a masterful warrior and battle strategist?

A mystical force from the dawn of time, known only as "Plot," it is detectable whenever something happens without even a trace of logical justification.

This is also known as the "what the?" test. Every time a reader goes "what the?" you've found the mysterious "Plot" at work again.

[Closet_Skeleton]

you misquoted me, and missed the point.

why are you here, being mad and negative? go be happy, go do something you like, I'm just saying, go do something that is worth doing, something that makes you happy, because if something makes you happy, its worth doing, the people here hating on Eragon here are clearly not happy, therefore they aren't doing something worth doing, is it really so hard, to stop doing something pointless, and go do something that makes you happy? :smallsmile:

You can take your happiness and shove it... somewhere I'd think of if I really meant to seriously be rude to you.

[H. Zee]

And anyone that's dense enough to think that all good writing has to be completely original hasn't done much research. The greatest writers of all time aren't great because they came up with something new, they're great because they tapped into ideas and themes that we all know, and made them into something great and memorable. Every quest story, exploring a new frontier, coming of age, save the girl, choosing between wrong-easy and right-hard, all of those types of stories and more have been around for thousands, tens of thousands of years. What a good writer adds are the details that make the old stories memorable to their new audience.


Rock On, Collective Unconscious!

However. I can already tell that Paolini has "i'masuccessfulseriesauthorsoeveryonewillbuymybooks nomatterhowlongtheyget becausetheywanttogettherestofthestory" syndrome. Like RJordan, JKRowling, and many others.

Other authors get "wooihaveasuccessfulseriessonowicanwriteamillionsho rtstoriesinthesamebitwiththesamecharacters" syndrome. *cough* Terry Pratchett *cough*

1) I get your first point, I really do, but Paolini's writing is both unoriginal and poor. There are some good bits, but they're rare, and he has the potential to be consistently good, but first he needs to have his head deflated, and with the kind of unwarranted success he's getting that's not going to happen. So his writing skill is probably going to be sort of stuck in a rut for quite a while.

2) I agree with your second point entirely, though it took me a few seconds to work out what the sentence where all the words ran together actually meant.

3) Terry Pratchett has just proved you wrong with Nation. And anyway, it's not always the same characters in Discworld, and never the same situations (except perhaps Moving Pictures and Soul Music, now I come to think of it).

[Linkavitch]

Ideas are knowledge, knowledge is power, power is energy, energy = E, E=mc^2. That equation helped build the atomic bomb, which killed a lot of people.

Thus, this is life or death, man!

That's one of the Funniest things I've read all day!:biggrin:

[Mr. Scaly]

Question: does anyone know how long this series is supposed to last, and in anyone's opinion has Paolini improved over the last three books?

[Helanna]

However. I can already tell that Paolini has "i'masuccessfulseriesauthorsoeveryonewillbuymybook snomatterhowlongtheyget becausetheywanttogettherestofthestory" syndrome. Like RJordan, JKRowling, and many others.


How does that apply to JK Rowling? She planned 7 books, and she wrote them. She wasn't stretching it out. :smallconfused:

RJ I can agree with, but I love his writing so I don't care how long the books are. I don't mind filler, so long as it's not utter crap (hey, like Eragon!)


Other authors get "wooihaveasuccessfulseriessonowicanwriteamillionsh ortstoriesinthesamebitwiththesamecharacters" syndrome. *cough* Terry Pratchett *cough*

This is just silly. :smallannoyed:



Also, I actually finished the book, so I can add to my summary (turns out the book had a point!)

Roran suddenly gains ultra-power and manages to kill 193 soldiers. in a row. Without magical reinforcement. Yes. He kills 193 soldiers, one at a time, while being continuously wounded and drained of energy while each of his opponents are fresh . . . while standing on a pile of corpses. Yeah.

Also,

Eragon finally gets his freakin sword. I was happy for no other reason than to get him to shut up about it.

[Executor]

*holds up Brisingr* Mr. Paolini, I have to wonder, how long did it take for you to squeeze this bad boy out? Because this is a BIG piece of crap. :smalltongue:

Honestly though, Inheritance is not literature. Literature is a title reserved for writing that reaches a certain level of quality and achieves a degree of originality, even if just by putting an original twist on an old concept. Lord of the Rings is literature, Wheel of Time is literature, Song of Ice and Fire is literature, even Harry Potter is literature. What we call Inheritance is trashy reading. Airport reading. The only possibility as to why it's so popular (Oh, and just so you know, popularity =/= quality) is that fantasy readers, young ones in particular, are lowering their standards. Once the fourth book is done, Paolini will make himself a load of money, and then he and the Inheritance books will fade silently into obscurity. Trust me, this guy won't be going down in the annals of great writers. He's just a flash in the pan, a 15 minutes of fame person, there is no real substance behind all his hype and publicity. His books are cliche, boring, mindlessly stereotypical, blatantly plagiarized and they also possess horrifically bad prose and dialogue. Like this little gem:


“Gar!” said Roran in an undertone. “You failed to mention that those errant flesh-mongers, those gore-bellied, boggle-minded idiot worshippers were cannibals.”

Wouldn't "You failed to mention that those bastards were cannibals" have sufficed? And wouldn't that have been MUCH better? That just goes to show how Paolini truly needs to learn the KIS,S principle

Keep
It
Simple
,
Stupid

I can rewrite Roran's sentence in a quarter of a second, replacing 'gore-bellied, boggle-minded idiot worshippers' with a simple 'bastards' and it sounds IMMENSELY better. That's not even putting any effort into it. It just goes to show how immeasurably overrated Inheritance and it's writer truly is.

[warty goblin]

How does that apply to JK Rowling? She planned 7 books, and she wrote them. She wasn't stretching it out. :smallconfused:

RJ I can agree with, but I love his writing so I don't care how long the books are. I don't mind filler, so long as it's not utter crap (hey, like Eragon!)



This is just silly. :smallannoyed:



Also, I actually finished the book, so I can add to my summary (turns out the book had a point!)

Roran suddenly gains ultra-power and manages to kill 193 soldiers. in a row. Without magical reinforcement. Yes. He kills 193 soldiers, one at a time, while being continuously wounded and drained of energy while each of his opponents are fresh . . . while standing on a pile of corpses. Yeah.

Also,

Eragon finally gets his freakin sword. I was happy for no other reason than to get him to shut up about it.

Well, there was a bit of bloat in a few of the last books I thought. Four could have removed some of the opening screwing around, and the whole trial sequence in five could have been pretty much dropped without any consequence.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Roran suddenly gains ultra-power and manages to kill 193 soldiers. in a row. Without magical reinforcement. Yes. He kills 193 soldiers, one at a time, while being continuously wounded and drained of energy while each of his opponents are fresh . . . while standing on a pile of corpses. Yeah.

So? Happens in Germanic and Norse sagas all the time.

It's not realistic but niether is Batman.

[Jayngfet]

No one calls saga's well made, just "classic". You automatically get to be a bestseller if someone finds you're work in the basement a couple hundred years later and calls it "classic".

[TRM]

I didn't read Brisingr, and I doubt I will. Extending a third book of a trilogy into two books seems like a very poor decision, especiall when your writing is less than perfect.


So? Happens in Germanic and Norse sagas all the time.

It's not realistic but niether is Batman.
The problem with Roran doing it is that it damages the internal consistency of the book. There was no precident for normal people (untrained in combat) being able to kill hundreds of combat-ready soldiers in the other Inheritance books, so it's an issue when it can suddenly happen in this one.

If it had been Eragon doing the killing, it would have strained belief much less: there is a pattern of Dragonriders being invincible in the previous books.
The Batman comment is mainly irrelivant, Batman isn't supposed to be realistic; Eragon was leaning towards being realistic (realistic about what normal people could and could not do) for most of the two books, especially the first one. No one complains about there being Magic in the Inheritance books, for the same reason that no one complains about Batman being able to beat up dozens of goons—it's expected.

[Reinforcements]

Question: does anyone know how long this series is supposed to last, and in anyone's opinion has Paolini improved over the last three books?
I can't speak to Brisingr outside the first three (or so) chapters, but those chapters are pretty damn bad. As for the other two, Eldest is even worse than Eragon, so no. He hasn't improved.

[Stupendous_Man]

So what amazing things happen in the book?

[Shosuro Ishii]

A mystical force from the dawn of time, known only as "Plot," it is detectable whenever something happens without even a trace of logical justification.

This is also known as the "what the?" test. Every time a reader goes "what the?" you've found the mysterious "Plot" at work again.

Here's the thing....there are two ways to deal with the plot issue:

1) Find a good, logical, thought out way to justify something happening beyond 'the plot' and make it work within the world of your story, the way most good fiction does.

or

2) Acknowledge plot as a meta device like Prachett did and move on with it.

Eragon does neither of these things, and as such adds 'shallow' to its running list of unpleasent adjectives, along with; purple, derivative and bad.

[Seraph]

So what amazing things happen in the book?

Eragon condemns a man for caring about his daughter, has a hilarious monologue about bees, makes a sword that is also on fire, and discovers that dragons can make phylacteries for themselves.

[Trizap]

{Scrubbed}

[Seraph]

{Scrubbed}.

I think it says just how lackluster the series is in general that in the time since I read the brick I actually forgot thatplot development.

sort of how I forget that my chemical romance even exists whenever I'm not reminded of them by something.

[Knaight]

Its light reading, and not particularly good light reading. The two main issues are things dragging on for too long, description and dialog in particular, and self contradictions within the incredibly long description and dialog. The guy spends two paragraphs describing a gem, which went from round to lots of sharp edges between them. Oh and they removed Morzan being Eragons father, getting rid of the whole duality good can come out of evil thing and replacing it with people are just like their ancestors, which was the single biggest wall banger in the series. That and there is this little gem:

“Gar!” said Roran in an undertone. “You failed to mention that those errant flesh-mongers, those gore-bellied, boggle-minded idiot worshippers were cannibals.”

Flesh mongers and gore bellied somehow doesn't imply cannibalism. Also, its called being concise. Atleast he actually used larger words when they fit, unlike certain other Harry Potter series I could mention, but then you see long words which don't fit well when a short one does. There is no point dragging something on like that, if the word destroyed fits don't use annihilated because its longer. Thats for when you would otherwise put really destroyed completely and utterly. To use an example not from that book.

[Trizap]

that and I wouldn't see someone in real life say that if I were writing it I'd write instead:

“Gah!” said Roran in an undertone. “You failed to mention that these stupid fanatics were cannibals”


a character would only extend the insult like that if they really, REALLY hated
the thing they were talking about, I could see the character looking at it with revulsion and disgust, but I couldn't see a character hating them that deeply.

[MyrddinDerwydd]

{Scrubbed}

Like This.[ spoiler ].....without the spaces......[ /spoiler ]

[Seraph]

{Scrubbed}

Like This.[ spoiler ].....without the spaces......[ /spoiler ]

no. this dreck isn't worthy of tags.

[MyrddinDerwydd]

no. this dreck isn't worthy of tags.

That's not anyone's decision to make for another. Voicing the fact that it's crap is fine, specifically posting critical plot points is wrong.

[Ozymandias]

That's not anyone's decision to make for another. Voicing the fact that it's crap is fine, specifically posting critical plot points is wrong.

Eh, mini-mod etc.

Did he actually write the "flesh-mongering" line? That sounds like something out of "The Eye of Argon". Like, actually. No hyperbole.

Firstly, I wouldn't use "Gah". It's just too cartoony.

Secondly, "said in an undertone" is probably a poor choice - too verbose. I think "muttered" would be better (although I don't understand the context, so I could be wrong).

On the adjectives, I'm a little confused. Are they errant? From what? What does "gore-bellied" even mean? "Flesh-monger"? Is that like a pimp, or something? I'm pretty sure "boggle-minded" doesn't make sense because "boggle" is not a noun. Also, are they idiots who worship or do they worship idiots? If the former, is worshipping really that bad?

How much money has this guy made, exactly?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Paolini once said that he keeps a thesaurus handy while he's writing. Apparently, a couple of other writers who were present basically just stared at him.

{Scrubbed}

[Mr. Scaly]

"I drink human blood. The mountain tells me to."

-Eragon Sprkings.

[AetherFox]

If there's one bad thing to say about Brisingr, it's that Paolini tried to squeeze too many adjectives into each sentence. Mind you, I've only gotten to page 100ish...

[chiasaur11]

Eh, mini-mod etc.

Did he actually write the "flesh-mongering" line? That sounds like something out of "The Eye of Argon". Like, actually. No hyperbole.

Firstly, I wouldn't use "Gah". It's just too cartoony.

Secondly, "said in an undertone" is probably a poor choice - too verbose. I think "muttered" would be better (although I don't understand the context, so I could be wrong).

On the adjectives, I'm a little confused. Are they errant? From what? What does "gore-bellied" even mean? "Flesh-monger"? Is that like a pimp, or something? I'm pretty sure "boggle-minded" doesn't make sense because "boggle" is not a noun. Also, are they idiots who worship or do they worship idiots? If the former, is worshipping really that bad?

How much money has this guy made, exactly?

I hesitate to state the obvious (who am I kidding, I love to state the obvious), but:

"Too Much".

[Lord Seth]

How does that apply to JK Rowling? She planned 7 books, and she wrote them. She wasn't stretching it out. :smallconfused:The books did, however, get longer as they went on, sometimes with details that were unnecessary. There was no real point to Cho Chang, for example. To be honest, I thought almost all the romance in the series should have been snipped. I like Harry Potter, but J.K. Rowling simply cannot write romance. Every romance scene felt forced and bad (and the epilogue was like fan fiction). Again, I like Harry Potter, I think Rowling can write pretty well, but she simply is not capable of writing good romance.

Of course, even if the books got bigger, she didn't release more than 7, so it wasn't like she extended the series to make more money.


oh yeah, the weapon under the Menoa was a hunk of metal that fell from the sky, a meteor, look, now Paolini is copying the Redwall series too.As much as I do think Paolini steals ideas, I think this one seems a bit of a stretch.

[Rogue 7]

That one's a fantasy cliche for the ages. The Belgariad (poster child for cliches and it knows it) did that as well.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Though the starmetal idea is a cliche in itself.

EDIT: Doh, ninja'd.

[Knaight]

[SIZE="5"]{Scrubbed}

Like This.[ spoiler ].....without the spaces......[ /spoiler ]

The back of the book jacket has spoiled more than we have.

[EvilElitest]

And anyone that's dense enough to think that all good writing has to be completely original hasn't done much research. The greatest writers of all time aren't great because they came up with something new, they're great because they tapped into ideas and themes that we all know, and made them into something great and memorable. Every quest story, exploring a new frontier, coming of age, save the girl, choosing between wrong-easy and right-hard, all of those types of stories and more have been around for thousands, tens of thousands of years. What a good writer adds are the details that make the old stories memorable to their new audience.
there is a difference between borrowed ideas and cliched.

Why do we have two Eragon threads? Mocking the same series twice isn't worth it. Its been said before, cliche, shallow, flat ect ect ect blah blah blah
from
EE

[MyrddinDerwydd]

{Scrubbed}

My problem was with this. Even if it is suspected by some, or even many readers, spoilers are for spoilers.

[Shosuro Ishii]

There was no real point to Cho Chang, for example.

Cho served to give Harry a 'relatable' excuse to be a whiney bastard for the entirty of the fifth book. Not many of the readers in Rowling target demographic had the stress of being essenitally the messiah of an entire culture of people, or having a near omnipotent magical hitler trying to kill, so she felt adding a medicore love story would make the character relatable.

She failed at this goal, and as such created a needless character you actually start to feel sorry for (Cho really takes a lot of **** in the series...I actually considered her more sympathic than the rest of the cast).

[Lord Seth]

Cho served to give Harry a 'relatable' excuse to be a whiney bastard for the entirty of the fifth book. Not many of the readers in Rowling target demographic had the stress of being essenitally the messiah of an entire culture of people, or having a near omnipotent magical hitler trying to kill, so she felt adding a medicore love story would make the character relatable.

She failed at this goal, and as such created a needless character you actually start to feel sorry for (Cho really takes a lot of **** in the series...I actually considered her more sympathic than the rest of the cast).Yeah, because like I said, romance is Rowling's bane. The only tolerable romances were the ones that mostly took place off-screen.

Come to think of it, was there any real point to having the romance between Hermione and Viktor Krum? I don't recall (offhand) it having any impact in the book it was in, and it's completely forgotten in all the later books.

I like Harry Potter, I like Rowling as an author, but every time she tries her hand at romance it doesn't work.

[doliest]

there is a difference between borrowed ideas and cliched.

Why do we have two Eragon threads? Mocking the same series twice isn't worth it. Its been said before, cliche, shallow, flat ect ect ect blah blah blah
from
EE

This is discussing the third book, mine was an ill-fated attempt to get people to lay off bashing the series as a whole that ironically would have never happened had I read this thread and realised Paolini hates me.

[Shosuro Ishii]

Yeah, because like I said, romance is Rowling's bane. The only tolerable romances were the ones that mostly took place off-screen.

Come to think of it, was there any real point to having the romance between Hermione and Viktor Krum? I don't recall (offhand) it having any impact in the book it was in, and it's completely forgotten in all the later books.

I like Harry Potter, I like Rowling as an author, but every time she tries her hand at romance it doesn't work.

Krum was to give J.K. an opportunity to show just how pissed off Ron got at his presence, subtly hinting at his feels for Hermonie. She just stretched it out too long.

Like I said, the Cho story was bland, but did play out in a remotly realisitc way (although Cho handled the death of her boyfriend at the hands of the wizard equivilant of hitler suprisingly well for a 16 year old girl).

[doliest]

Like I said, the Cho story was bland, but did play out in a remotly realisitc way (although Cho handled the death of her boyfriend at the hands of the wizard equivilant of hitler suprisingly well for a 16 year old girl).

I'm guessing she might not have been that close to him seeing as they only dated for a couple of months max.

[Shosuro Ishii]

I'm guessing she might not have been that close to him seeing as they only dated for a couple of months max.

She breaks down in the scene in the restaurant, so she obviously cared for him, but still. It's not like he moved away, he was killed brutally at the hands of what amounted to an evil demigod, and we see almsot no real reaction from her save one scene, and a snippet where she cries while kissing harry.

I tell you....after re-reading the series, just pay special attention to Cho, Rowling seems to go out of her way to make that poor girl suffer.

[doliest]

She breaks down in the scene in the restaurant, so she obviously cared for him, but still. It's not like he moved away, he was killed brutally at the hands of what amounted to an evil demigod, and we see almsot no real reaction from her save one scene, and a snippet where she cries while kissing harry.

I tell you....after re-reading the series, just pay special attention to Cho, Rowling seems to go out of her way to make that poor girl suffer.

Oh I'm not denying rowling was making her suffer, but I'd say that Cho may have been bottling things up or simply cared, but not enough for multiple serious breakdowns.

[Shosuro Ishii]

Oh I'm not denying rowling was making her suffer, but I'd say that Cho may have been bottling things up or simply cared, but not enough for multiple serious breakdowns.

I can buy this.

By the end of the story, it wouldn't have surprised me if there was a tacked on scene where her father was killed and she drowned in a lake though, it was getting that bad.

If I had to list the 10 most poorly treated female characters in literature, she would probably get a nod.

[EvilElitest]

This is discussing the third book, mine was an ill-fated attempt to get people to lay off bashing the series as a whole that ironically would have never happened had I read this thread and realised Paolini hates me.

yeah but both boil down to mocking the series. Oh an Paolini hates everybody. Except those of use who can cry single cryistial tears.
from
EE

[H. Zee]

If I had to list the 10 most poorly treated female characters in literature, she would probably get a nod.

That'd make a good topic, actually. I'd put Arya Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire in the top five.

Anyway... The books are really bad, yes, and their success is undeserved, but I think everyone (including me) is getting a bit too upset over it.

[Reinforcements]

This is discussing the third book, mine was an ill-fated attempt to get people to lay off bashing the series as a whole that ironically would have never happened had I read this thread and realised Paolini hates me.
Inheritance - Worse Than You Think It Is.

[Mr. Scaly]

That'd make a good topic, actually. I'd put Arya Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire in the top five.

Anyway... The books are really bad, yes, and their success is undeserved, but I think everyone (including me) is getting a bit too upset over it.

Not me. I'm laughing my tail off.

Here's one. Why do people get so worked up over these things?

[Oregano]

I don't like the books, and definately not the movies but seriously the copy of star wars thing, it's not like the first Star Wars took the plot from a japanese film called the Hidden Fortress or anything.:smalltongue:

Final Fantasy XII also took a lot from Star Wars and that gets a surprisngly small amount of flak(especially compared to Eragon and some of the other FFs).

Seriously if you are going to complain, at least have decent reasons.

[Lord Seth]

I don't like the books, and definately not the movies but seriously the copy of star wars thing, it's not like the first Star Wars took the plot from a japanese film called the Hidden Fortress or anything.:smalltongue:George Lucas at least was honest enough to credit Hidden Fortress as an inspiration for Star Wars.

But again, the problem isn't the fact Eragon shamelessly ripped off Star Wars, it's the fact that (as far as I know) the author hasn't admitted to it. And again, it's not just the rip-off that's a problem, it's all the other problems of the series in addition to it being a rip-off.

[Oregano]

I totally agree with you, his ego is too inflated. Hey George Lucas even funded Kagemusha and did an interview about The Hidden Fortress(it's on the DVD I have).The point was that Star Wars isn't original either.

So what are the books actually like, they seem too boring and long by the sounds of it, but are they really that cliche?:smallconfused:

[Shosuro Ishii]

That'd make a good topic, actually. I'd put Arya Stark from A Song of Ice and Fire in the top five.



Not sure about the rest of the top five. All I know for sure is that Cho makes the list somewhere in the 8-6 range and Ophelia is number 1. Would probably make for an interesting discussion though.

[Shosuro Ishii]

So what are the books actually like, they seem too boring and long by the sounds of it, but are they really that cliche?:smallconfused:

It's not even fair to call them cliche at this point. They are almost a plot point for plot point transcription of Star Wars with various fantasty elements lifted from other, better stories (Dragonriders of Pern, LotR) thrown in with enough purple prose and annoying authour fillibusters to make you want to burn the book.

[Rogue 7]

Not sure about the rest of the top five. All I know for sure is that Cho makes the list somewhere in the 8-6 range and Ophelia is number 1. Would probably make for an interesting discussion though.

Haven't read the actual book, but Eponine should be up there.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Come to think of it, was there any real point to having the romance between Hermione and Viktor Krum? I don't recall (offhand) it having any impact in the book it was in, and it's completely forgotten in all the later books.

To be honest, the subplots and irrelevant details are part of what made Rowling so popular.


I don't like the books, and definately not the movies but seriously the copy of star wars thing, it's not like the first Star Wars took the plot from a japanese film called the Hidden Fortress or anything.:smalltongue:

Here is the ammount of plot correlation between The Hidden Fortress and Star Wars:

An old general and 2 bumbling sidekicks escort a mcguffin to an allied base while a skilled warrior acts as the antagonist. They also both have stropy princesses in them but the princess in Hidden Fortress is with them from the begining and is more of the Luke Skywalker equivilant (with Leia and Han solo having no equivilant).

We already have the equivilant for Star Wars and Eragon so there's no need for me to go into the details.

[Mc. Lovin']

My problem was with this. Even if it is suspected by some, or even many readers, spoilers are for spoilers.

I think coming into a thread for a book you havnt read is a bit dim anyway. YOu must have known there were going to be spoilers in here

[Lord Seth]

To be honest, the subplots and irrelevant details are part of what made Rowling so popular.Oh, I don't have a problem with the subplots. I just disliked that she made a romance between the Hermione and Viktor Krum (which was possibly the only on-screen romance in the series that was didn't feel especially painful) and then after that book, it was (as far as I remember) never mentioned again. That's what annoyed me about it. Rowling somehow managed to even mess up a romance she wrote semi-competently. (Okay, I'm sounding harsh, but I do love Harry Potter and think J.K. Rowling is a good author, I just think she's absolutely atrocious at romance)


Not sure about the rest of the top five. All I know for sure is that Cho makes the list somewhere in the 8-6 range and Ophelia is number 1. Would probably make for an interesting discussion though.Is this in fiction, or just in literature? If we're not limiting ourselves to literature, I'd think Asuka from Neon Genesis Evangelion would qualify...

[Rogue 7]

Something that I can't believe I didn't catch sooner: Can someone with a copy of Eldest go through the bit with the elves and compare how much their honorifics match the Japanese (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Honorifics) ones? It's something that just occurred to me and strikes me as very odd- that a "culture" supposedly squarely based in the west, much like Tolkien, would suddenly include this very eastern feature. That, and it's another indicator of the series' derivativeness.

[Revanmal]

Something that I can't believe I didn't catch sooner: Can someone with a copy of Eldest go through the bit with the elves and compare how much their honorifics match the Japanese (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Honorifics) ones? It's something that just occurred to me and strikes me as very odd- that a "culture" supposedly squarely based in the west, much like Tolkien, would suddenly include this very eastern feature. That, and it's another indicator of the series' derivativeness.

Arya-sama is so kawaii-desu! Sugoi!

*slaps self - hard*

[Mr. Scaly]

Arya-sama is so kawaii-desu! Sugoi!

*slaps self - hard*

If I didn't loathe Arya I would so sig that...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Oh, I don't have a problem with the subplots. I just disliked that she made a romance between the Hermione and Viktor Krum (which was possibly the only on-screen romance in the series that was didn't feel especially painful) and then after that book, it was (as far as I remember) never mentioned again. That's what annoyed me about it. Rowling somehow managed to even mess up a romance she wrote semi-competently. (Okay, I'm sounding harsh, but I do love Harry Potter and think J.K. Rowling is a good author, I just think she's absolutely atrocious at romance)

There is no romance between Hermoine and Victor Krum. It's made clear when it happens that Hermoine doesn't really care about Victor and is just humouring him.

[Rogue 7]

Arya-sama is so kawaii-desu! Sugoi!

*slaps self - hard*

Oh sweet Zombie jesus, my BRAIN! I'm as close to a Wapanese as you can get while being marginally sane, and I *still* dropped 5 IQ points reading that.

To be pedantic, dropping the "is so" would make it gramatticaly correct in Japanese, as far as I know (which is very little)

[Lord Seth]

There is no romance between Hermoine and Victor Krum. It's made clear when it happens that Hermoine doesn't really care about Victor and is just humouring him.Actually, now that I think about it, the lack of any kind of on-screen romance between the two is probably what made their relationship so tolerable. However, I don't seem to recall it ever saying she was "humoring" him.


Oh sweet Zombie jesus, my BRAIN! I'm as close to a Wapanese as you can get while being marginally sane, and I *still* dropped 5 IQ points reading that.

To be pedantic, dropping the "is so" would make it gramatticaly correct in Japanese, as far as I know (which is very little)While I've only taken Japanese for two semesters (on my third currently), I don't think dropping the "is so" would do it. That would end up with "Arya-sama kawaii-desu". The problem here is that it's combining formal and informal speak (which might be possible, but does seem kind of strange). You need a "wa" after "Arya-sama" to show it's the subject. In casual speech, I think such things are sometimes dropped. But the "desu" ending is formal. It would either need to be "Arya-sama kawaii" or Arya-sama wa kawaii desu".

Or I could be completely wrong. It just seems weird to be switching between levels of politeness in the same sentence. One thing I CAN say is that "Arya-sama wa kawaii desu" is correct.

[Rogue 7]

I'll defer to you. I spent six weeks there several years back, during which I utterly failed to grasp the language, followed by watching more subbed anime than is really healthy. All I knew is that I could recognize the words with a vague idea of how they fit together.

[MyrddinDerwydd]

I think coming into a thread for a book you havnt read is a bit dim anyway. YOu must have known there were going to be spoilers in here

I popped in to see what the general opinion of the book was, not read off plot points and quotes.

I'm just speaking as someone who has had a friend email out to a whole group of people,
{Scrubbed. A Spoiler}
only a month or so after the book came out, thus ruining the rather otherwise highly anticipated surprise.

[EvilElitest]

I totally agree with you, his ego is too inflated. Hey George Lucas even funded Kagemusha and did an interview about The Hidden Fortress(it's on the DVD I have).The point was that Star Wars isn't original either.

So what are the books actually like, they seem too boring and long by the sounds of it, but are they really that cliche?:smallconfused:

because Lucas brought new things to the table. Watching Hidden Fortress and Starwars, it isn't entirely the same, there are plenty of other things involved (you know, the death star what not). It is an inspiration, but is different enough to be its own thing. Eragon is just a cut and paste

Also to the people who say "make your own thing then" i remind you one doesn't have to be a better author to mock another person for bad writing. I don't have a webcomic, does that mean i can't mock Mookie?
from
EE

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff of Moddingham:


Please hide your spoilers
Leave the modding to us, please
Be cool like Fonzies

[Revanmal]

Nobody is as cool as Fonzie.

[EvilElitest]

wait

Snape kills dumboldore. I was about to read that chapter to day.....NOOOOOOOOOO

from
EE

[turkishproverb]

Nobody is as cool as Fonzie.

Especially once Mork was done with him.

[Lord Mancow]

This isn't just about brisingr but when Eragon talks to Nar Gharzhog.
/spoiler/ while on their way to the Boer Mountains /spolier/
Did anyone else think that the Urgals seemed to have followed a path in the revealing of their culture similar to that which the orcs from warcraft followed.
For example. The Urgals are first portrayed as murderous savages which is what the orcs were like prior to the revelation that they were honorable warriors. Not only do both forces degenerate when the demonic force controlling them disappears but they both proceed to join with their former enemy to fight a larger threat. Which also conveniently happens to be the same force that was controlling them before. They both also thrive on war and their cultures are both very focused on and based around war. The only difference is that the Urgals basically live in log houses with a home culture similar to the tauren of warcraft. (He could be basing them off American-Indians though but I don't know enough about them to make a judgment on that)

Also I apologise if I didn't spoiler the top part properly. I'm new here and haven't been able to find anything that says how to spoiler something.:smallfrown:

[Closet_Skeleton]

This isn't just about brisingr but when Eragon talks to Nar Gharzhog.
/spoiler/ while on their way to the Boer Mountains /spolier/
Did anyone else think that the Urgals seemed to have followed a path in the revealing of their culture similar to that which the orcs from warcraft followed.
For example. The Urgals are first portrayed as murderous savages which is what the orcs were like prior to the revelation that they were honorable warriors. Not only do both forces degenerate when the demonic force controlling them disappears but they both proceed to join with their former enemy to fight a larger threat. Which also conveniently happens to be the same force that was controlling them before. They both also thrive on war and their cultures are both very focused on and based around war. The only difference is that the Urgals basically live in log houses with a home culture similar to the tauren of warcraft. (He could be basing them off American-Indians though but I don't know enough about them to make a judgment on that)

It's possible. The urgals are basically orc rip off anyway so ripping off Warcraft as well as Tolkien is possible.


Also I apologise if I didn't spoiler the top part properly. I'm new here and haven't been able to find anything that says how to spoiler something.:smallfrown:

It's {spoiler}{/spoiler} with the {} replaced with []

He's a trick, if you don't know how to do something, quote a post where someone who has done it right and copy them.

[EvilElitest]

This isn't just about brisingr but when Eragon talks to Nar Gharzhog.
/spoiler/ while on their way to the Boer Mountains /spolier/
Did anyone else think that the Urgals seemed to have followed a path in the revealing of their culture similar to that which the orcs from warcraft followed.
For example. The Urgals are first portrayed as murderous savages which is what the orcs were like prior to the revelation that they were honorable warriors. Not only do both forces degenerate when the demonic force controlling them disappears but they both proceed to join with their former enemy to fight a larger threat. Which also conveniently happens to be the same force that was controlling them before. They both also thrive on war and their cultures are both very focused on and based around war. The only difference is that the Urgals basically live in log houses with a home culture similar to the tauren of warcraft. (He could be basing them off American-Indians though but I don't know enough about them to make a judgment on that)

Also I apologise if I didn't spoiler the top part properly. I'm new here and haven't been able to find anything that says how to spoiler something.:smallfrown:

Pretty much. Its the same style of thing, and trust our young genius here to try to rip off every fantasy story he can, i mean why not have warcraft. I don't think he is stealing the Tauren way of life, i think he making psudeo racist stereotypes of the native Americans instead.
Also you do

what you want to say

except all in CAPS
from
EE

[Closet_Skeleton]

Also you do

what you want to say

except all in CAPS
from
EE

lol

It didn't work.

Yes, I know this post is meaningless.

Mutly voice: *frasmfrasmwordcount*

Wow, I have no idea how to spell that correctly.

What was I posting about again?

[EvilElitest]

oh bugger, apperently it doesn't work in non caps

ok, what you do is this,
in between each version you write spoiler
from
EE

[Mewtarthio]

Vader is Snape's sled!

Becomes:

Vader is Snape's sled!

Just copy/paste that, and it'll work fine.

[EvilElitest]

Vader is Snape's sled!

Becomes:

Vader is Snape's sled!

Just copy/paste that, and it'll work fine.

my mind is blown
from
EE

[Lord Seth]

What I don't get is the title. It sounds absolutely horrible. Why'd they get rid of the perfectly workable and actually decent title "Empire" to replace it with this...thing?

[Closet_Skeleton]

What I don't get is the title. It sounds absolutely horrible. Why'd they get rid of the perfectly workable and actually decent title "Empire" to replace it with this...thing?

It sounds like a rip off of The Weirdstone of Brisingamen.

Or the goddess Freya's necklace Brísingamen but I suspect Paoloni is more likely to have heard of the former.

[Stupendous_Man]

it's the magic word for fire, but i'm not sure what significance that has with the content of hte book.

[Lord Mancow]

Thank you guys for showing me how to spoiler properly.:smallbiggrin:

[Rogue 7]

Didn't he just make up the language? From what little we've seen that I paid attention to, he just took English grammar and applied some new words to it- words that I doubt make any logical sense. Which is another thing that bugs me. Why on earth did he feel the need to actually write out the language? Is it because Tolkien did it? The man was a professor of archaic languages! I've heard he only created LOTR to give a world for his languages, all of which are fully functional. You can have perfectly good "mysterious languages" by just using an earth language that few people would know- I'd suggest Sanskrit. Or better yet, just attribute elements of that language and don't even bother. Fans can make up how they think it sounds if you get them.

[Revanmal]

Didn't he just make up the language? From what little we've seen that I paid attention to, he just took English grammar and applied some new words to it- words that I doubt make any logical sense. Which is another thing that bugs me. Why on earth did he feel the need to actually write out the language? Is it because Tolkien did it? The man was a professor of archaic languages! I've heard he only created LOTR to give a world for his languages, all of which are fully functional. You can have perfectly good "mysterious languages" by just using an earth language that few people would know- I'd suggest Sanskrit. Or better yet, just attribute elements of that language and don't even bother. Fans can make up how they think it sounds if you get them.

I think he based it on Old German or some other archaic language. In any case, he didn't do a good job of it.

[Shosuro Ishii]

Is it because Tolkien did it?

Short answer: Yes

[EvilElitest]

Didn't he just make up the language? From what little we've seen that I paid attention to, he just took English grammar and applied some new words to it- words that I doubt make any logical sense. Which is another thing that bugs me. Why on earth did he feel the need to actually write out the language? Is it because Tolkien did it? The man was a professor of archaic languages! I've heard he only created LOTR to give a world for his languages, all of which are fully functional. You can have perfectly good "mysterious languages" by just using an earth language that few people would know- I'd suggest Sanskrit. Or better yet, just attribute elements of that language and don't even bother. Fans can make up how they think it sounds if you get them.

Tolkien did it the hard way. He made the languages perfectly functional in their own right, IE i could actually learn them and understand them. What this hack is doing is simply making up a glossary for nonsense

For example, i'll make something right now. In my own language of Elitism, um, GOB means fish


GOB= Fish
and um, GOB GOB=big fish
So um, GiG=Fire
and um, GoB GiG=Big Fire

I'm making up utter nonsense. I"m just making it suit my purpose. That is waht he is doing, just less obvious for me
from
EE

[Linkavitch]

Some may remember me as the one who started this thread. I stated then that I would post a review of the book when I had read it. I have, so here is my review. The author's writing style has changed somewhat, for the better, I think, and the book did have some small flaws. Firstly, however, the book was amazing. Click the Spoiler. . .

The author does have a tendency to over describe some things. For instance, the whole chapter about him making his sword was too long, and could have been cut shorter with not too much difficulty. In the last battle, as well, if you have read the book, you will remember that a Shade was summoned in the last moments of the battle, and Eragon and Arya promptly dispatched it. In five minutes. The Shade could have been cut out without too much difficulty as well. Also, some of the action was a little too 'suspense-disbelief'. Such as Roran killing 193 soldiers in a row. I mean come on. Other than this, though, I cannot see anything else I would have changed, other than making it longer.

Now, for the good parts. . .

The whole book was amazing. It had plenty of action, and there were many concluded plots to be had, as well. For instance, Eragon finally got his sword, Roran rescued his wife-to-be, Katrina, the secret of Galbatorix's power was revealed, and Eragon's true father, Brom was confirmed at last. The Ra'zac finally had their revenge exacted upon them, as well. There is a good level of suspense, as Eragon is attacked by dwarven assassins while staying in Farthen Dur, and they don't know who attacked him, among other things.

All in all, great book, looking forward to the next one, tata. . .

[Linkavitch]

Tolkien did it the hard way. He made the languages perfectly functional in their own right, IE i could actually learn them and understand them. What this hack is doing is simply making up a glossary for nonsense

For example, i'll make something right now. In my own language of Elitism, um, GOB means fish


GOB= Fish
and um, GOB GOB=big fish
So um, GiG=Fire
and um, GoB GiG=Big Fire

I'm making up utter nonsense. I"m just making it suit my purpose. That is waht he is doing, just less obvious for me
from
EE

Actually, the language he is using for the Ancient Language, at least, is a form of Scandinavian. He just made up Dwarvish and Urgal, and both of these are used rarely in the books.

[Lord Seth]

it's the magic word for fire, but i'm not sure what significance that has with the content of hte book.Plus, it threw off the kind of cool naming of each book starting with the letter E. It's not anything amazing, but it did have a certain flair. Why throw out something actually good about the series and replace it with one of the worst titles I've ever heard?

...how do you even PRONOUNCE "Brisingr"?

[EvilElitest]

Actually, the language he is using for the Ancient Language, at least, is a form of Scandinavian. He just made up Dwarvish and Urgal, and both of these are used rarely in the books.

except its really not. Its a bastardized version of it, using a mixed up version of phrases and what not to suit his purpose. It has a basis but doesn't actually work on that basis the way Tolkien's work did.


Brom's his father. Well there goes the last part of moral complexity

from
EE

[Cristo Meyers]

...how do you even PRONOUNCE "Brisingr"?

Bri-Sing-gr

...

...now I shall go commit seppuku to restore what little is left of my honor and self-respect...

[EvilElitest]

Bri-Sing-gr

...

...now I shall go commit seppuku to restore what little is left of my honor and self-respect...

first cover the sword in oil and light it on fire. Oh and its a wooden sword

That title hurts my jaw
from
EE

[Mr.Bookworm]

Er.

No offense, but you just described half near all of the generic fantasy books out there, with slightly different title changes.

*picks at*


The whole book was amazing. It had plenty of action, and there were many concluded plots to be had, as well.

Action...

If that's ALL you want from a book, bow howdy. There are approximately two gajillion books for you, many of them better than the Inheritance Trilogy Cycle.

And concluding plots is part of what a book is supposed to do.


For instance, Eragon finally got his sword,

He got his sword, a magical artifact that is in no way at all reminiscent of Anduril, Luke's new lightsaber in Episode VI, or twenty billion other stories where a character gets a new, important sword.


Roran rescued his wife-to-be, Katrina

Which is in no way at all reminiscent of Episode VI. Again.

Or cliched in the slightest.


the secret of Galbatorix's power was revealed

Which is, if I read Wikipedia right, is

souls.

Which is up there with the cackling laughter in creativity with BBEGs.


Eragon's true father

If you didn't see that particular plot twist coming, you must be blind.


The Ra'zac finally had their revenge exacted upon them, as well.

Ooooo. Evil guys stabby good.

Also, this seriously bothers me. A book ago, the Ra'zac (this abuse of punctuation makes me angry) were a major threat, and now according to Wikipedia, Eragon is slashing them down like mooks.

Woohoo, Godmode Stu in full force.


There is a good level of suspense, as Eragon is attacked by dwarven assassins while staying in Farthen Dur, and they don't know who attacked him, among other things.


...

He's attacked by someone, and they don't know who it is.

That's...

Just sheer brilliance in literature.

---

Incidentally, I find Eragon interesting if you apply an alternate character interpretation to everything.

Eragon is a sociopath who just wants power and to kill, which I would say is fairly well supported by the books themselves (see Sloan in book three, molar incident). The Empire is basically decent, if not good, and Galbatorix directly performed good by bringing down a military junta. The Varden are a bunch of terrorists who want to overthrow a lawful government and replace it with their own power structure. The Orcs Urgals have been oppressed for a long time, and joined with the first human group that has actually been favorable to them. Some Urgal elements wish, however, to enact an eye for an eye, hence the dead baby and such. The elves are arrogant, holier-than-thou, elitist ignorants who want to return the world to it's place where they were on top of everything. The dwarves as a whole are jackasses.

Sadly, fitting this interpretation into the book isn't that difficult.

[Stupendous_Man]

I'm sorry, but the sheer awesome of Brisinger just isn't filtering through the intertubes today.

[Mr. Scaly]

Mr. Bookworm, add to that the evil mountain whose goal is to make everybody drink blood so that it can become an animate golem-esque monster of the apocalypse.

[Rogue 7]

You know what turned me off of Eldest, and the series in general? I could tolerate the cliched plot. I could tolerate the formulaic, copied worldbuilding. I could tolerate the bizzare dialogue. What I could not tolerate was how much of a Marty Stu Eragon turned into. And how overpowered he made the magic system!

The idea that Eragon can see into the mind of anyone he chooses, and that he is constantly doing it, is worse Moral Dissonance than I have ever seen. You expect me to believe that this arrogant sixteen year old jerkass is allowed to read my mind to see if I have hostile intent, and if not, oh well? F*** no. He debated for two seconds that "I'm interfering with people's privacy", then decided, "oh well, I'm better than they are, so it doesn't matter." That's something you just. don't. do. End of story. Reading minds should be limited, for use in dire situations, and have consequences. Or for interrogation. It should not be done to prevent two stable boys from killing each other. That's their own problem, and who the hell do you think you are butting in? But, no, he's always in the right, so it's cool. Give me a break.

Next- he gets Slay Living as an at-will power with functionally unlimited range, and no line of sight required. Let me tell you what that means. He can kill you from two miles away without even seeing you. Doesn't matter who you are. Sure, they put up "wards" to stop him, but that doesn't change the fact that any magic user, at any time, could go out into the middle of a major city, and kill everyone without breaking a sweat. Does that seem right to you? I like my heroes with moderate powers. I can tolerate extreme powers, but I'm sorry, this takes the cake. And he doesn't care that he turns himself into the grim reaper. He never once was bugged about the thousands upon thousands of human beings he must have killed.

Urgh! Marty Stu, thy name is Eragon.

[bluewind95]

... Wow. He gets all that? And I thought MY characters had somewhat extreme powers in some cases...

[Executor]

I'm sorry, but the sheer awesome of Brisinger just isn't filtering through the intertubes today.

I'm sorry, but Brisingr is clearly made up of stupidity, purple prose, and fail.

Asky ANY respectable literary critic about their opinion on Inheritance. Most of them won't even lower themselves to read it. Because Inheritance is not literature, Inheritance is an airport novel, a popular fad, a page-turner written for the sole purpose of making money. The fantasy equivalent of a Harlequin bodice-ripper.

[Lord Seth]

I'm sorry, but Brisingr is clearly made up of stupidity, purple prose, and fail.

Asky ANY respectable literary critic about their opinion on Inheritance. Most of them won't even lower themselves to read it. Because Inheritance is not literature, Inheritance is an airport novel, a popular fad, a page-turner written for the sole purpose of making money. The fantasy equivalent of a Harlequin bodice-ripper.He might have just been referring to the title (which he misspelled anyway).

[Turcano]

There is a good level of suspense, as Eragon is attacked by dwarven assassins while staying in Farthen Dur, and they don't know who attacked him, among other things.

Which is totally not a plot point from Thud! at all. Honest.


...how do you even PRONOUNCE "Brisingr"?

If you follow Old Norse conventions, it would be two syllables, with a voiceless r at the end. But who are we kidding?

[DrizztFan24]

The idea that Eragon can see into the mind of anyone he chooses, and that he is constantly doing it, is worse Moral Dissonance than I have ever seen. You expect me to believe that this arrogant sixteen year old jerkass is allowed to read my mind to see if I have hostile intent, and if not, oh well? F*** no. He debated for two seconds that "I'm interfering with people's privacy", then decided, "oh well, I'm better than they are, so it doesn't matter." That's something you just. don't. do. End of story. Reading minds should be limited, for use in dire situations, and have consequences. Or for interrogation. It should not be done to prevent two stable boys from killing each other. That's their own problem, and who the hell do you think you are butting in? But, no, he's always in the right, so it's cool. Give me a break.

Next- he gets Slay Living as an at-will power with functionally unlimited range, and no line of sight required. Let me tell you what that means. He can kill you from two miles away without even seeing you. Doesn't matter who you are. Sure, they put up "wards" to stop him, but that doesn't change the fact that any magic user, at any time, could go out into the middle of a major city, and kill everyone without breaking a sweat. Does that seem right to you? I like my heroes with moderate powers. I can tolerate extreme powers, but I'm sorry, this takes the cake. And he doesn't care that he turns himself into the grim reaper. He never once was bugged about the thousands upon thousands of human beings he must have killed.


IIRC, Eragon was revolted with the idea of invading people's minds. He essentially considered it a mind rape. Eldest has the details I believe.

And he actually gets a couple of slay living options. Nine I think. But they are easily blocked by magicians because of the low amount of energy they require.

But you seem to reject the books because of the potential power that Eragon has. Isn't this kind of the idea with a good guy? The good guy upholds ideals and values while rejecting a greater, raw power because of the "evil" mindset and means to get the power.

Finally, critics bash Inheritence because of the blatant theft of classic literary works. While there is more than one way to skin a cat, there aren't infinite ways. You can only tell that the good guy beats the bad guy so many ways.

Heh, this debate stuff is kind of fun actually.

[Rogue 7]

Well yes, he does consider it abhorrent- for about 2 pages. Then he freely does it when he gets to Surda, because, obviously, the Elves all have barriers against it.

It's not that I dislike the books solely because I don't think Eragon should be that powerful. I don't like that anyone is really that powerful. It's the worst case of Linear Fighters, Quadratic Wizards I've ever seen, and I prefer my combat close, dirty, and ugly. And you don't really get that with Eragon's combat. The swordplay in the elf forest was alright, but the entire battle of Surda was nonsense, largely because of the god-bomb that Eragon was. It's like Roy (or Hinjo, I'm not sure) said- a powerful sorcerer changes the course of battles. And I dislike that.

Saying that, I can't think of any one single person in the world whom I would trust with being able to read the thoughts of anyone present, as well as being able to kill them on a whim. Hell, I wouldn't have trusted Gandhi with that. Jesus, maybe, but he can probably already do that. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, as the saying goes...I guess there should be an addendum to that- "unless you're the Marty-Stu main character". And he's already pretty dang corrupt. How many people did he kill in that battle without thinking?

[Shosuro Ishii]

IIRC, Eragon was revolted with the idea of invading people's minds. He essentially considered it a mind rape. Eldest has the details I believe.

And he actually gets a couple of slay living options. Nine I think. But they are easily blocked by magicians because of the low amount of energy they require.

But you seem to reject the books because of the potential power that Eragon has. Isn't this kind of the idea with a good guy? The good guy upholds ideals and values while rejecting a greater, raw power because of the "evil" mindset and means to get the power.

Finally, critics bash Inheritence because of the blatant theft of classic literary works. While there is more than one way to skin a cat, there aren't infinite ways. You can only tell that the good guy beats the bad guy so many ways.

Heh, this debate stuff is kind of fun actually.

Point 1: A good guy doesn't need to be incrediably powerful. Hell, a god guy doesn't even need powers in the first place. That aside, most people's complaint with Eragon's limitless powers (even if they are blockable by magic) is that it's just another thing about him that reeks of Mary Sue and authour insert. It gets annoying to see Paolini keep throwing all these tricks at Eragon for no real reason other than, 'it would be cool if I could do this'.

point 2: Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and we're not expecting everyone to re-invent the wheel, but Paolini basically took George Lucas's knife, painted it green, gave it a LoTR sounding name and called it his own. It's not just coincedental things that make Star Wars/LotR/any other good fantasy novel of the last X years and Eragon similar. Eragon is incrediably derivative, and that's usually looked on as a bad thing. Take the Cthulhu Mythos as an example of deravative done (usually good). Now look at Eragon. Eragon isn't inspired by Star Wars and LotR, it's borderline plagarism.

[Linkavitch]

...how do you even PRONOUNCE "Brisingr"?

Briss-ing-ger. There's a pronunciation guide in the back of the books, if you own one.

[DrizztFan24]

Well yes, he does consider it abhorrent- for about 2 pages. Then he freely does it when he gets to Surda, because, obviously, the Elves all have barriers against it.

I thought that he did so while at the varden because he needed to be aware of anyone that would have ill intentions for him? The elves are not so, for two/one obvious reason(s).



It's not that I dislike the books solely because I don't think Eragon should be that powerful. I don't like that anyone is really that powerful. How many people did he kill in that battle without thinking?

So it's kind of personal preference thing? not that the book itself is bad?

And later on he has nightmares about killing those people doesn't he? I'll have to check my books; I thought that he hated killing them because many of them were just folks that were drafted and did not suport big G anyways.



It gets annoying to see Paolini keep throwing all these tricks at Eragon for no real reason other than, 'it would be cool if I could do this'.

Examples please? Then I can attempt to address each :smallsmile:

No RoC love for authors? and
story content ahead, from Eldest, but stillconsider who his teachers are, there is kind of alot of experience between the two of them and their teachers and such.

But I will yield on the influence thing. It does have an incredible amount of parallels to many well-known fantasy and sci-fi works. :smalltongue:



EDIT:
forgot to address the Mythos thing, I have no experience with that material except the RPG stuff i read on the forums, which i suspect is highly inflated.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You can only tell that the good guy beats the bad guy so many ways.

Or you could write a story that had actual characters and drama rather than "the good guy beats the bad guy".

[Mc. Lovin']

I found it a bit unbelievable when (in one of the early chapters, I can't remember which) Eragon started crying because he had to take energy from a *plant*. I mean it would be acceptable to cry over killing an animal or something, but a plant? Come on =/

[Stupendous_Man]

I found it a bit unbelievable when (in one of the early chapters, I can't remember which) Eragon started crying because he had to take energy from a *plant*. I mean it would be acceptable to cry over killing an animal or something, but a plant? Come on =/

Hasn't he taken many lives by this point from humans and humanoids without blinking an eye?

[Mr. Scaly]

Wait, so he thinks of himself as above humans and dwarves but a plant gets him weepy eyed? More elvish propaganda...

[Turcano]

Wait, so he thinks of himself as above humans and dwarves but a plant gets him weepy eyed? More elvish propaganda...

Even that doesn't make any sense, seeing how he cruelly tears them from the ground and feasts on their juicy plant-flesh. Although maybe he has nightmares (http://crap.jinwicked.com/2003/08/11/vegetarian-nightmares/) about it...

[Enigma95]

I agree with Mr. Scaly and Turcano, I've read the first 2 books and am finishing up the third now, and Eragon hasn't exactly been a Saint about loving to keep things alive. I mean hes a vegetarian now right? He was going to eat the plant anyway.

[Mr. Scaly]

I admit, I only got halfway through the first book, though I did read the fight scene at the end of Eldest. Has he ever actually felt bad about having to kill someone? Any time at all? Any living thing (plants don't count)?

[Forderz]

One of the issues I have with the story is: The giant crystal thing that falls at the climax in one of the books. something with that much mass would likely tear a large chunk of ceiling down with it, but (iirc) all it takes with it is, well, itself. And that big of a crystal falling from such a long distance would absolutely destroy anything short of solid rock or metal for meters around when it shattered.

[streakster]

One of the issues I have with the story is: The giant crystal thing that falls at the climax in one of the books. something with that much mass would likely tear a large chunk of ceiling down with it, but (iirc) all it takes with it is, well, itself. And that big of a crystal falling from such a long distance would absolutely destroy anything short of solid rock or metal for meters around when it shattered.

No, see, this is a fantasy. There don't have to be reasons for things....

Okay. I can't do it. Can't defend him. Yeah, that was stupid. I mean, glass would have done more damage than this stupid crystal did. What, did they make it out of sugar? Was it hollow?

[DrizztFan24]

I can defened...mostly because your memory serves you incorrectly, I fear. The Star Saphire was broken and shattered, not that it fell. And the pieces were stopped before they hit the ground.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I admit, I only got halfway through the first book, though I did read the fight scene at the end of Eldest. Has he ever actually felt bad about having to kill someone? Any time at all? Any living thing (plants don't count)?

There's a lot of canon evidence that suggests Eragon is a cruel sociopath with a God-Complex.

The only time, to my knowledge, where he has ever showed the slightest remorse for killing someone is when he first did it, and I believe that it completely disappeared within a page or two.

He, while wandering around a battlefield and musing on the battle, picked up a tooth and started playing with it. This wasn't important in anyway, and he never thought about it or got called out on it. Words cannot express how beeped up that is.

Furthermore, he constantly uses magic to change the universe to his whim, with no thought to any consequence this might have.

[Lord Mancow]

But you seem to reject the books because of the potential power that Eragon has. Isn't this kind of the idea with a good guy? The good guy upholds ideals and values while rejecting a greater, raw power because of the "evil" mindset and means to get the power.


Well I'm pretty sure that that's a pretty common theme in a lot of movies and books. I think LoTR is one as well as star wars. And if I'm not mistaken this is common is a whole lot of fantasy literature. Though I can't think of many examples.

Edit: On a different note, I thought that Paolini had Brisingr take place in much to short time (as in the actual number of days that passed in the book) as well as the varden must be a pretty bad army if they have to take the first city they siege in three or four days to continue to survive due to lack of food.

[Turcano]

I admit, I only got halfway through the first book, though I did read the fight scene at the end of Eldest. Has he ever actually felt bad about having to kill someone? Any time at all? Any living thing (plants don't count)?

Yes. He felt bad about killing rabbits. And it took until he put the cooked rabbit in his mouth to feel that way. And here's the punchline: he actually says or thinks something along the lines of "This is like killing people." Yeah.

[Stupendous_Man]

And then he proceeds to kill off Imperial Stormtroopers by the dozen two pages later without a second thought?

[Lord Mancow]

At some point in the series Eragon has the tactics that are employed in battle explained to him and whoever he's talking to says that infantry etc are still used because the spell casters need protection on the field of battle and from the look of the battle at the end of eldest its like a high-level DnD party fight, whoever has the strongest spell caster wins.:smallmad:

[Shosuro Ishii]

Yes. He felt bad about killing rabbits. And it took until he put the cooked rabbit in his mouth to feel that way. And here's the punchline: he actually says or thinks something along the lines of "This is like killing people." Yeah.


I sound like a broken record here:

But this is yet another example of Paoloni throwing a scene in just to push his vegan/hippy fetish/agenda through his characters.

All he'd have to do if through in a line about how the rabbit dying shows god doesn't exist and have Eragon cry a single tear and we would have the distilled essence of Paloni's style.

[warty goblin]

Ya'know, between the tooth juggling and the feeling bad for the poor innocent wabbits, Eregon seems to be straying suspiciously close to Sword of Truth style morality here- "Killing people is fine! But I won't eat meat! Because I kill people!"

The difference being that at least even Goodkind eventually realized that this was seriously messed up, and fixed it- "Killing people is fine! So is eating meat! Because I kill people!"

Suffice to say I find it a bad sign when somebody makes Sword of Truth look like it makes a flipping bit of sense.

[EvilElitest]

Ya'know, between the tooth juggling and the feeling bad for the poor innocent wabbits, Eregon seems to be straying suspiciously close to Sword of Truth style morality here- "Killing people is fine! But I won't eat meat! Because I kill people!"

The difference being that at least even Goodkind eventually realized that this was seriously messed up, and fixed it- "Killing people is fine! So is eating meat! Because I kill people!"

Suffice to say I find it a bad sign when somebody makes Sword of Truth look like it makes a flipping bit of sense.
WG, you and Rogue 7 are taking things too seriously here. You need to remember the rules

Elves say its ok= Good
Elves express dislike=Evil
We good now?
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

Huh...sociopathy and a God complex. Instead of Luke Skywalker, Eragon may be 'inspired' by Richard Rahl after all. And the killing people by telling them to die is Kahlan's schtick.

I'm thinking that if it wouldn't mean her own suicide Saphira should just save the world some trouble by eating Eragon or something.

[warty goblin]

WG, you and Rogue 7 are taking things too seriously here. You need to remember the rules

Elves say its ok= Good
Elves express dislike=Evil
We good now?
from
EE
Pretty much. Just sub "Richard" for "elves" and my comparison is complete.

[EvilElitest]

Pretty much. Just sub "Richard" for "elves" and my comparison is complete.

Sorry i can't hear you, i'm too busy slaughtering the pacifist who interferer with justice FOR THE CHILDREN
from
EE

[Killersquid]

WG, you and Rogue 7 are taking things too seriously here. You need to remember the rules

Elves say its ok= Good
Elves express dislike=Evil
We good now?
from
EE

Which is what I hated most about the book. Sure, hated everything else, but the elves having no actual flaws and being right in every respect made them into this society full of Mary-Sues I absolutely HATED! Better than the Dwarves because "lol the dorfs believe in a higher power in a Fantasy world" better than humans because "lol humans eat meat and it kills animal just to get extra food which they need for nutrition and survival and leather (which we still wear BY THE WAY!), and help nature because "lol nature doesn't do anything bad to things like volcanoes and tornadoes and hurricanes and rock/mudslides and mother nature is very very caring and should be loved"

[EvilElitest]

Which is what I hated most about the book. Sure, hated everything else, but the elves having no actual flaws and being right in every respect made them into this society full of Mary-Sues I absolutely HATED! Better than the Dwarves because "lol the dorfs believe in a higher power in a Fantasy world" better than humans because "lol humans eat meat and it kills animal just to get extra food which they need for nutrition and survival and leather (which we still wear BY THE WAY!), and help nature because "lol nature doesn't do anything bad to things like volcanoes and tornadoes and hurricanes and rock/mudslides and mother nature is very very caring and should be loved"

Its even worst when its inconsistent. I mean, Tolkien was able to have wise and powerful elves without making them perfection
from
EE

[Killersquid]

Its even worst when its inconsistent. I mean, Tolkien was able to have wise and powerful elves without making them perfection
from
EE

They were also very, very arrogant, and paid for it.

[warty goblin]

Sorry i can't hear you, i'm too busy slaughtering the pacifist who interferer with justice FOR THE CHILDREN
from
EE

And as we all know justice FOR THE CHILDREN means KICKING THEM IN THE FACE. We know this is right because the elves, er Richard, er Richard the Warlock, er, somebody said so.

[EvilElitest]

They were also very, very arrogant, and paid for it.

Well Eragon's elves aren't arrogant their simply perfect............according to the book at least. Except for the guy who had the audacity to critizise Eragon. He was arrogant


WG, remember, because the main character said so, we can murder, rape, torture, anybody we don't like, because its for the greater good. Unlike those bad guys of course. what, it works in 24
from
EE

[Rogue 7]

Which is what I hated most about the book. Sure, hated everything else, but the elves having no actual flaws and being right in every respect made them into this society full of Mary-Sues I absolutely HATED! Better than the Dwarves because "lol the dorfs believe in a higher power in a Fantasy world" better than humans because "lol humans eat meat and it kills animal just to get extra food which they need for nutrition and survival and leather (which we still wear BY THE WAY!), and help nature because "lol nature doesn't do anything bad to things like volcanoes and tornadoes and hurricanes and rock/mudslides and mother nature is very very caring and should be loved"

Just remember, kids. Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder.

[Killersquid]

Well Eragon's elves aren't arrogant their simply perfect............according to the book at least. Except for the guy who had the audacity to critizise Eragon. He was arrogant


No I meant Tolkien's elves are arrogant, which is an actual flaw. The one elf's arrogance was changed once he saw how Awesome Eragon was.

[Killersquid]

Just remember, kids. Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder.

"For every animal you don't eat, I'll eat three" ~Maddox

[EvilElitest]

No I meant Tolkien's elves are arrogant, which is an actual flaw. The one elf's arrogance was changed once he saw how Awesome Eragon was.

1) Yeah i know, i was just being sarcastic
2) Well, Eragon is Messiah so how could he not. I mean, the writer really does show such a wonderful character
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

Good lord, I'm glad I didn't get to Eldest. If your standard elf ticks me off I doubt I could survive the book without gnawing out whole chapters...

To be fair about the face kicking incident, that was probably the most deserving eight year old in the world...who was still an eight year old.

[EvilElitest]

It was a baby kick for justice

On on a relevant note, it was a mind rape for justice
from
EE

[DrizztFan24]

Wow, the only way hlaf these posts sound like they were written be someone with a personal vendetta against paolini is to read them as if they are sarcastic.

There really is no chance of me convincing you guys otherwise huh? regardless of what is written in the book?
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world. It's easier to let them have their way, then trick them when they're not paying attention."
-Brom
and I never got my examples

[Mr. Scaly]

Mind rape? What happened to her after that?

Ouch...damn curiosity.

Edit: Drizztfan, I haven't read Brisingr...I'm going by what I read of Eragon and what everyone tells me happens. I don't hate Paolini or the series...I just don't think it's much good, is all.

[EvilElitest]

Wow, the only way hlaf these posts sound like they were written be someone with a personal vendetta against paolini is to read them as if they are sarcastic.

There really is no chance of me convincing you guys otherwise huh? regardless of what is written in the book?
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world. It's easier to let them have their way, then trick them when they're not paying attention."
-Brom
and I never got my examples

if your asking me to accept the Eragon series of actually having quality worth noting, then no, there isn't, just like your never going to convice me that the Dungeons and Dragon movie was good, Mookie is a good writer/artist, and Shreeded moose is actually worth something
from
EE

[Enigma95]

I think I've figured it out. Paolini made the huge mistake of making his main character (Eragon), into a god that just constantly learn new incredible powers every two seconds with pop up mood swings. To write a good, story you should make a character have legit weaknesses. Paolini may have been trying to do this with the plant thing, but totally screwed it up because Eragon had no facts or examples of WHY he should be sad. At first, I thought the books were OK, it was a nice idea. Off topic for a second here, the movie would be 1/10 if you haven't read the book, and if you read the books, the movie would be in the negatives out of 10. Back to topic, the tooth juggling was very random, and had no reason for it. I'll cut him some slack, being a novice writer that he is, but with most books and main characters I know, don't try to make them the coolest thing and have pathetic weaknesses with no facts or examples to back it up.

[Shosuro Ishii]

Wow, the only way hlaf these posts sound like they were written be someone with a personal vendetta against paolini is to read them as if they are sarcastic.

There really is no chance of me convincing you guys otherwise huh? regardless of what is written in the book?
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world. It's easier to let them have their way, then trick them when they're not paying attention."
-Brom
and I never got my examples

They did give you examples, of Eragons hypocracy as a character, of the elfs perfection and Mary Sueisms, and of Paoloni's insitance on cramming his life views through the mouths of his characters. DO you want an annoted, itemized list of direct quotes from the book.

Just because you want to ignore a fact makes it no less of a fact.

[DraPrime]

I think I've figured it out. Paolini made the huge mistake of making his main character (Eragon), into a god that just constantly learn new incredible powers every two seconds with pop up mood swings. To write a good, story you should make a character have legit weaknesses. Paolini may have been trying to do this with the plant thing, but totally screwed it up because Eragon had no facts or examples of WHY he should be sad. At first, I thought the books were OK, it was a nice idea. Off topic for a second here, the movie would be 1/10 if you haven't read the book, and if you read the books, the movie would be in the negatives out of 10. Back to topic, the tooth juggling was very random, and had no reason for it. I'll cut him some slack, being a novice writer that he is, but with most books and main characters I know, don't try to make them the coolest thing and have pathetic weaknesses with no facts or examples to back it up.

And if you have a weakness (the back injury in Eldest) don't make it have virtually no plot significance, and then have it removed through a Deus Ex Machina.

[Killersquid]

And if you have a weakness (the back injury in Eldest) don't make it have virtually no plot significance, and then have it removed through a Deus Ex Machina.

That word can basically be Saphira's (and magic's) nickname.

[Stupendous_Man]

Wow, the only way hlaf these posts sound like they were written be someone with a personal vendetta against paolini is to read them as if they are sarcastic.

There really is no chance of me convincing you guys otherwise huh? regardless of what is written in the book?

It's what's in the books that convinces us otherwise.

[DraPrime]

That word can basically be Saphira's (and magic's) nickname.

I'm still not entirely sure what happened that cured Eragon. I mean, some sort of dragon tattoo came to life? And it was sentient? And able to cure Eragon of all his problems and make him an elf? AND THIS WAS ACTIVATED BY NUDE DANCING!?!?!?!

[Mr. Scaly]

You know...if you just get rid of the elves and everything to do with them entirely, the series would be better off. Turn Arya into some human princess, she'd still be sueish. I hate elves, but when they're done well they can add so much to a story. These ones...sound like they do nothing but look pretty.

[EvilElitest]

You know...if you just get rid of the elves and everything to do with them entirely, the series would be better off. Turn Arya into some human princess, she'd still be sueish. I hate elves, but when they're done well they can add so much to a story. These ones...sound like they do nothing but look pretty.

It would take a lot more than that to fix the book, the main character
from
EE

[Killersquid]

I'm still not entirely sure what happened that cured Eragon. I mean, some sort of dragon tattoo came to life? And it was sentient? And able to cure Eragon of all his problems and make him an elf? AND THIS WAS ACTIVATED BY NUDE DANCING!?!?!?!

The dancing may have just been...a cure dance? His transformation may have done (I still lol at that line when he describes himself) it...I don't know, it's just not been said at all, he wrote himself something that MAY have given him a small flaw, to have to overcome or cure with well founded logic, and instead gets rid of it.

[Shosuro Ishii]

It would take a lot more than that to fix the book, the main character
from
EE


And the plot
And the other characterizations
And the plot
And the prose
And the plot
And the pacing
Did I mention the plot?

[DraPrime]

It would take a lot more than that to fix the book, the main character
from
EE

Yes, but at least the elves could not be a bunch of weird hippies with sentient tattoos that are brought to life by dancing naked. The books would be vastly less irritating then.

[warty goblin]

Yes, but at least the elves could not be a bunch of weird hippies with sentient tattoos that are brought to life by dancing naked. The books would be vastly less irritating then.

I dunno, given all the other things wrong with the book, getting rid of the nude dancers seems like adding insult to injury.

[EvilElitest]

And the plot
And the other characterizations
And the plot
And the prose
And the plot
And the pacing
Did I mention the plot?

and the writings
And the characters
And the if the plot must be done, let eddings do it

dragonprime

Well, i've noted that nude dancing can bring about great chances.........ok i'll stop now

And the elves were by far the worst part of the story
from
EE

[Mr.Bookworm]

You know...if you just get rid of the elves and everything to do with them entirely, the series would be better off. Turn Arya into some human princess, she'd still be sueish. I hate elves, but when they're done well they can add so much to a story. These ones...sound like they do nothing but look pretty.

This is sort of like saying that cutting off the hand will work okay for a gangrenous arm, but yeah, I find the elves particularly insufferable.



Wow, the only way hlaf these posts sound like they were written be someone with a personal vendetta against paolini is to read them as if they are sarcastic.

There really is no chance of me convincing you guys otherwise huh? regardless of what is written in the book?
"You can't argue with all the fools in the world. It's easier to let them have their way, then trick them when they're not paying attention."
-Brom
and I never got my examples


I do have something that while not a vendetta, could aptly be termed "extreme dislike". I dislike Paolini himself immensely, and I find the books some of the worst pieces of trash ever to see the best-seller list.

I've read the first two books, and have read several reviews and plot summaries of the third. All of them have convinced me that Brisingr is pretty much the same old dreck as the last two.

Furthermore, Paolini basically mashed together several old, incredibly common sayings when he wrote that, and I find it rather pretentious and rude to call me and others a fool when we disagree with you.

And have you not been reading the thread? We've given you sites consisting of nothing but examples, and plenty of out own.

[streakster]

And the elves were by far the worst part of the story
from
EE

After the main character. And the plot.

[Mr. Scaly]

This will sound weird considering that I just advocated ridding the series of an entire species...but I think that keeping Galbatorix hidden is one of the smarter moves Paolini made. All this chaos and violence is happening because of a man who doesn't even have to be present to make people hate and fear him, which is kind of cool...sort of.

[snoopy13a]

So most of you don't like the Eragon books. I think we've gotten it. Rehashing it over and over again gets a bit old.

[Mr.Bookworm]

This will sound weird considering that I just advocated ridding the series of an entire species...but I think that keeping Galbatorix hidden is one of the smarter moves Paolini made. All this chaos and violence is happening because of a man who doesn't even have to be present to make people hate and fear him, which is kind of cool...sort of.

The problem is, that until book three, we have no evidence to support Galbatorix=Evil, besides the fact that he collects taxes, which is so stupid I won't even bother to comment on it.

The entire reason he's evil is because the books say he is. It's one of the worst examples of Paolini's copious Telling Not Showing.

In book three, we find out he's powered by souls.

That is the only direct evidence we have that Galbatorix is evil, in over 1800 pages of BBEG-ing.

[Moonshadow]

You mean dragon souls.


In a stunning plot twist, Galbatorix turns out to be a hero who exterminated a corrupt race of power hungry madmen, only to enforce total rule to prevent destruction.

Hey, he sounds a bit like Lord Genome from TTGL!

[EvilElitest]

After the main character. And the plot.

what plot?

Also the King (of an Empire?) is powered by souls and kills people with magic, while Eragon is powered by the souls of the elves and kills people with magic.....wait what?

from
EE

[DrizztFan24]

I find it rather pretentious and rude to call me and others a fool when we disagree with you.

Forgive me, I did not write clearly. The quote was meant as a hyberpole. I was attempting to convey the fact that I wait and let the other person explain their stance and usually try to find a flaw in their logic. This works well with those that are angry at given subject.
Many of the posts in the thread seem to express the desire to destroy anything related to Palancar Valley, short of Pallancar himself, and have it removed from the records of humanity.

My apologies.

[Mr.Bookworm]

In a stunning plot twist, Galbatorix turns out to be a hero who extremined a corrupt race of power hungry madmen, only to enforce total rule to prevent destruction.


So, Galbatorix is a fallen hero, who killed off the just and good council of old, and instituted a new evil order in it's place.

I'm not even going to bother with snark.

Eragon is so similar to Star Wars with minor details swapped that it's not even funny.

EDIT:


My apologies.

Ah. My apologies as well, then.

I suppose we can agree to disagree, then?

Also, the Internet needs some sort of button to allow us to communicate tone and subtle facial expressions. Google, get on it.

[streakster]

what plot?
EE

Exactly.

Special hidden answer #2: Lucas's!

[EvilElitest]

Forgive me, I did not write clearly. The quote was meant as a hyberpole. I was attempting to convey the fact that I wait and let the other person explain their stance and usually try to find a flaw in their logic. This works well with those that are angry at given subject.
Many of the posts in the thread seem to express the desire to destroy anything related to Palancar Valley, short of Pallancar himself, and have it removed from the records of humanity.

My apologies.

You do realize it would be easier to all parties to respond to the complaints directly....or eat cake which is a lie
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

what plot?

Also the King (of an Empire?) is powered by souls and kills people with magic, while Eragon is powered by the souls of the elves and kills people with magic.....wait what?

from
EE

Bad joke coming up:

He's a soul man, eh? The soul survivor of an ancient order. Soul cool he doesn't even have to show up to be hated. Soul.

Okay, I'm done.

[Moonshadow]

No, Eragon is Simon, who lives in the remote village and ends up finding the Deus Ex Machina (Lagann/Saphira) that forever changes his life. He and his "brother" Brom (Kamina), leave their sleepy village in order to change the world. Along the way, they meet their rough-tough band of friends, which leads them to their first big battle, where Brom (Kamina) is mortally wounded, leading to Eragon (Simon) to becoming their new leader, blah blah blah, etc.


The Inheritance Cycle is just one big Gainax rip-off!

[EvilElitest]

Bad joke coming up:

He's a soul man, eh? The soul survivor of an ancient order. Soul cool he doesn't even have to show up to be hated. Soul.

Okay, I'm done.
in response to that, i had to murder three of the people in my basement. Why did you have to do that?
from
EE

[DrizztFan24]

I suppose we can agree to disagree, then?

Agreed, or wait...this is like that whole
"Following statement=true
previous statement=false" thing

EE, I vote the cake :smalltongue:

[streakster]

No, Eragon is Simon, who lives in the remote village and ends up finding the Deus Ex Machina (Lagann/Saphira) that forever changes his life. He and his "brother" Brom (Kamina), leave their sleepy village in order to change the world. Along the way, they meet their rough-tough band of friends, which leads them to their first big battle, where Brom (Kamina) is mortally wounded, leading to Eragon (Simon) to becoming their new leader, blah blah blah, etc.


The Inheritance Cycle is just one big Gainax rip-off!

No. No it is not. Because if it ripped of TTGL it would be good.

I mean, imagine Eragon if it did rip off TTGL:

"Nazgul ripoffs, together! Form Giant Stag Beetle!"
"Saphira! Dragon-Rider Combination! Transform! Eternal Fire Reign! WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM!?"

That, I would read.

[Mr. Scaly]

in response to that, i had to murder three of the people in my basement. Why did you have to do that?
from
EE

Are you saying I'm

souly responsible for your atrocities?

[Moonshadow]

There are fanfics, and then there are bad fanfics. Like Eragon


Next plot twist, the dragons are actually EVA's!

[Forderz]

I think the whole reason people rag on Eragon is because it's fun to rag on piles of (subjective) drivel, especially if you can feed off each other's hate.

People have been united by hate since rising out of the primordial soup, and if I have to list examples... lets just say your grasp of human history is lacking.:smallwink:

[EvilElitest]

Are you saying I'm

souly responsible for your atrocities?

yes, yes i am

And vote for the cake, its that or death
from
EE

[Moonshadow]

The cake is a lie! a LIE!

[Mr. Scaly]

yes, yes i am

And vote for the cake, its that or death
from
EE

Lucky for you I'm out of soul jokes for the moment. Quick, someone talk about fish so I have an excuse.

[Moonshadow]

Reading Eragon is like being slapped with a wet mackeral? Wet, disgusting and smelly?

[Mr. Scaly]

At least it would make good fillet of soul.

[EvilElitest]

Lucky for you I'm out of soul jokes for the moment. Quick, someone talk about fish so I have an excuse.

i beat those people to death with a frozen fish you scaly monster
from
EE

[Mr. Scaly]

At least you're not soleless.

[Revanmal]

So most of you don't like the Eragon books. I think we've gotten it. Rehashing it over and over again gets a bit old.

Dont even go there. If that hasn't been covered in this thread, it's been addressed several times in the other one.

[Mr. Scaly]

I would think of treading on the Inheritence cycle...

...

...Just think what it would do to my souls!

That one was a stretch, wasn't it?

[streakster]

I would think of treading on the Inheritence cycle...

...

...Just think what it would do to my souls!

That one was a stretch, wasn't it?

I think soul, yes.

[Mr. Scaly]

I think soul, yes.

Heheh. Nice one. I can see that the Bad Pun Division is in good hands for when I go to sleep.

[EvilElitest]

mr. scaly, why do you hate the defenseless?
from
EE

[Mewtarthio]

I would think of treading on the Inheritence cycle...

...

...Just think what it would do to my souls!

That one was a stretch, wasn't it?

:smallmad: Just for that, I'm going to have to seal your mouth with a souldering iron!

...What? Surely you'll concede he deserves such pun-ishment!

[Mr. Scaly]

Because they never put up a fight! Where's the fun in beating a dead horse? Or dead victims for that matter. If they put up a fight, I'd be tempted to grant mercy for a while.

And no, I'm not one of those RTS players who rushes.

Edit: Heh. Next time Mewtarthio. Time to sleep for now.

[DrizztFan24]

At least now you are all bonded by more than just literary opinions, some of you are making horrible puns, while the others are witty, for the soul purpose of upsetting an individual.

I should sell tickets.
Selling Tickets!
Sorry, Soul'd out.

[Killersquid]

Holy crap, its like I'm reading Dominic Deegan.

[doliest]

You know what the funny thing is? For all the bashing and hatred professional critics give it, inheritence will give paolini enough money that he can call people on this forum idiots, while doing something awesome like doing a rock guitar solo on the desicrated remains of all the basher's favorite books and IV dripping pudding, see the J.K.Rowling principle of,"Don't like my works? I'm worth more than the queen what about you?"

[Killersquid]

You know what the funny thing is? For all the bashing and hatred professional critics give it, inheritence will give paolini enough money that he can call people on this forum idiots, while doing something awesome like doing a rock guitar solo on the desicrated remains of all the basher's favorite books and IV dripping pudding, see the J.K.Rowling principle of,"Don't like my works? I'm worth more than the queen what about you?"

He already can do that, all he needs to do is make an account on here and take guitar lessons.

[Lord Seth]

You know what the funny thing is? For all the bashing and hatred professional critics give it, inheritence will give paolini enough money that he can call people on this forum idiots, while doing something awesome like doing a rock guitar solo on the desicrated remains of all the basher's favorite books and IV dripping pudding, see the J.K.Rowling principle of,"Don't like my works? I'm worth more than the queen what about you?"Well yeah, but did J.K. Rowling ever get a particularly big head about her success? It seems like you're taking a shot at her for doing so, but I don't recall her ever coming across as particularly arrogant about her series.

[doliest]

He already can do that, all he needs to do is make an account on here and take guitar lessons.

Ironically that's what annoys me, in that there are people who deserve to do that more that don't, I mean I don't want to go off on a rant but seriously, paolini's like, what 18? He hasn't gone through enough crap to earn that right!

[Turcano]

You know what the funny thing is? For all the bashing and hatred professional critics give it, inheritence will give paolini enough money that he can call people on this forum idiots, while doing something awesome like doing a rock guitar solo on the desicrated remains of all the basher's favorite books and IV dripping pudding, see the J.K.Rowling principle of,"Don't like my works? I'm worth more than the queen what about you?"

Well, so can Deepak Chopra. It doesn't really prove anything.

[doliest]

Well yeah, but did J.K. Rowling ever get a particularly big head about her success? It seems like you're taking a shot at her for doing so, but I don't recall her ever coming across as particularly arrogant about her series.

No, I'm not ranting, I'm a fan of hers but the point is she COULD do that, just to classy to.