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Leliel
2008-09-26, 03:01 PM
Well, I just got a strange urge for a campaign where the PCs are dimension-traveling agents with a mission-Destroy all iterations of that bane of fiction, Mary Sue.

Naturally, this is an impossible task, but that's not the entire mission of the PCs-just destroying the Sues who are so bad, that they threaten the fabric of Fiction-land, and at epic levels, the banishment of some of the authors who create them to another dimension.

So, workable but wacky idea, or not?

Morty
2008-09-26, 03:06 PM
This idea sounds like fun, but only for a freeform game. No system can ever cover all genres in which Mary Sue can appear.

Learnedguy
2008-09-26, 03:08 PM
Death to the Sues, that's all I'm saying.

(Seriously though, remember to make the Sues one-up the PC's as often as possible. Then, when they kill it, it'll feel soo much more gratifying)

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 03:08 PM
This idea sounds like fun, but only for a freeform game. No system can ever cover all genres in which Mary Sue can appear.Gurps.

And I would approve, but how do you plan to overcome the probability-warping powers and epic defenses that all Mary Sues have?

arguskos
2008-09-26, 03:09 PM
This idea sounds like fun, but only for a freeform game. No system can ever cover all genres in which Mary Sue can appear.
Though, several systems have SOOO damn many of them, that you could totally run a game just hunting down famous/notable Mary Sues. I can see an entire campaign about killing the Forgotten Realms Mary Sues...

*writes down plan for said campaign...*

-argus

valadil
2008-09-26, 03:09 PM
Seems like a fun campaign idea, for a quirky meta campaign. Did you have any Mary Sues in mind?

I'm not quite sure how you'd set this up, but what would be more fun than slaughtering Mary Sues would be setting them up for failure before killing them. That sort of thing would take more ambitious players though.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-09-26, 03:11 PM
Make a bunch of the Sues horribly unfunctional. Like their giant day-glo fairy wings are physically unworkable, they stand around and leave themselves vulnerable in order to deliver "dramatic" speeches, and they fight as intelligently as they're written (so... not very).

Explain it that, since the PCs are from outside the Sue's universe, they're unaffected by her stupidity-inducing powers, so they don't have to stand around with guns holstered while she does a 5-minute Sailor Moon dance.

Leliel
2008-09-26, 03:19 PM
Seems like a fun campaign idea, for a quirky meta campaign. Did you have any Mary Sues in mind?

I'm not quite sure how you'd set this up, but what would be more fun than slaughtering Mary Sues would be setting them up for failure before killing them. That sort of thing would take more ambitious players though.

MINE!

I may be an OK author, but I know how to write badly.

After pummeling a few of the parodies I dream up, the PCs get to blast some famous fantasy Sues into oblivion-I plan to reveal that they were the ones that depowered Elminister-and eventually, kill David Gonterman.

For the reality-warping powers, the PCs are given weapons infused with the essence of Shakespeare, crafted by the best smiths on TV Tropes' payroll, and forged in the Fires of Ingenuity-Basically, they force the Sue in question to actually obey by the rules of the literary verse she appears in.

Piedmon_Sama
2008-09-26, 03:24 PM
kill David Gonterman.


Can I play? Please? :smallredface:

(I don't really have anything against Gonterman, but anything with him involved is bound to be hilairious).

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 03:26 PM
MINE!

I may be an OK author, but I know how to write badly.

After pummeling a few of the parodies I dream up, the PCs get to blast some famous fantasy Sues into oblivion-I plan to reveal that they were the ones that depowered Elminister-and eventually, kill David Gonterman.

For the reality-warping powers, the PCs are given weapons infused with the essence of Shakespeare, crafted by the best smiths on TV Tropes' payroll, and forged in the Fires of Ingenuity-Basically, they force the Sue in question to actually obey by the rules of the literary verse she appears in.Lose the "Essence of Shakespeare" part. Go with Twain or something. Shakespeare is horrid.

Telonius
2008-09-26, 03:26 PM
Final Scene: Mirrors of Opposition for all.

Drascin
2008-09-26, 03:28 PM
Gurps.

And I would approve, but how do you plan to overcome the probability-warping powers and epic defenses that all Mary Sues have?

If you find yourself unable to hurt it directly, try tricking them to do an "heroic sacrifice".

Given the average Sue trusts her awesome power of making everyone like her, the idea of people resistant to it, ie PCs, lying to her has a pretty good chance of not even occur to her. And about 95% percent of Sues can't resist a good heroic sacrifice, with overly florid speech and everything. Do the math :smalltongue:

Zeful
2008-09-26, 03:29 PM
Here's (www.fanfiction.net) a good place to start looking.

chiasaur11
2008-09-26, 03:32 PM
Lose the "Essence of Shakespeare" part. Go with Twain or something. Shakespeare is horrid.

I respectfully disagree.

Man's work is fairly good, all things considered and Robbie the Robot is a Sci Fi icon.

Plus, he invented a bunch of plot ideas still used today. Some even used well!

Behold_the_Void
2008-09-26, 04:06 PM
If you're looking for a system and intend to hit the anime fandom, may I not-so-humbly suggest the anime system linked in my signature. It's modular enough to capture the general over-the-top flavor you may want to use.

Tengu_temp
2008-09-26, 04:20 PM
An awesome idea for a very silly, comical and fourth-wall-breaking campaign. Excel Saga meets The Punisher meets Men In Black. As a connoisseur of comedy campaigns, I give the idea my seal of approval.
http://ffrpg.republika.pl/approve.PNG


Gurps.


Too gritty. I'd go with M&M 2e, because you can never be wrong with M&M 2e.

Tokiko Mima
2008-09-26, 04:25 PM
Promise me you will not reveal how Shakespeare's essense was extracted. PLEASE! :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

mostlyharmful
2008-09-26, 04:34 PM
And I would approve, but how do you plan to overcome the probability-warping powers and epic defenses that all Mary Sues have?

Kill It WITH FIRE!!!!!!:smallbiggrin:

Ravens_cry
2008-09-26, 04:38 PM
Kill It WITH FIRE!!!!!!:smallbiggrin:
*sigh* And all this time I have been using Heart. . .:smallsigh:

Knaight
2008-09-26, 04:44 PM
Too gritty. I'd go with M&M 2e, because you can never be wrong with M&M 2e.

I'd go with fudge, just because its so modular(just dropping penalties off the wound track gets you from moderately gritty to cinematic, meaning different characters can have or not have the wound penalties), and you can create things quickly. Thats the issue with M&M, character creation can take a while. And its free.

That said this campaign sounds fun. You should have them eventually finish off Drizzt as a BBEG or nearby.

Beleriphon
2008-09-26, 04:47 PM
Too gritty. I'd go with M&M 2e, because you can never be wrong with M&M 2e.

I concur, also the Atomic Think Tank already has several, hundrend thousand ready to rumble in the Roll Call section.

FoE
2008-09-26, 04:50 PM
It could be pretty funny. Actually, you should make the BBEG your boss a notorious Mary Sue, using your group to destroy all the other Mary Sues in the universe.

Knaight
2008-09-26, 04:51 PM
I could actually see use for an overpowered DMPC on this one, have that guy be the final boss.

Sholos
2008-09-26, 05:06 PM
You should have them eventually finish off Drizzt as a BBEG or nearby.

:roy:

Drizzt is not a Mary Sue.

Frosty
2008-09-26, 05:07 PM
Promise me you will not reveal how Shakespeare's essense was extracted. PLEASE! :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

ROFL! Good one.
Oh, and please do make at least one of the Mary-Sues be Dangerous Genre-Savvy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DangerouslyGenreSavvy)

nobodylovesyou4
2008-09-26, 05:12 PM
i hate to ask this, but what exactly is a mary sue?

AstralFire
2008-09-26, 05:18 PM
i hate to ask this, but what exactly is a mary sue?

A character that is a very thinly veiled self-insert into the story and as such gets all sorts of awesome things and personality that is supposed to be perfect in every way.

There is nothing inherently wrong with such a character, since actually a lot of people's favorite protagonists are also flawlessly perfect - and we're not talking Superman, we're talking more Batman or Cinderella, where their only flaws do not detract from their coolness (snark is often very common) - except that a Mary Sue does so while being incredibly annoying because it failed at being likeable to anyone but the writer.


Promise me you will not reveal how Shakespeare's essense was extracted. PLEASE! :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

Will Smith's blender was involved.

http://p7.hostingprod.com/@foodnotebook.com/blog/KitchenAid%20Pro%20Line%20Chefs%20Blender.jpg

Thane of Fife
2008-09-26, 05:39 PM
A character that is a very thinly veiled self-insert into the story and as such gets all sorts of awesome things and personality that is supposed to be perfect in every way.


It's not necessarily a self-insert. It's just someone who's ridiculously perfect, and yet, who almost always suffers from intense angst.

While I have a hard time actually recommending this, the BBEG absolutely must be Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way.

Google "My Immortal." It's a fanfic. Don't actually read it - instead, convince somebody you don't like to do so, then make the shattered remnants of their sanity sum up the tale for you.

Ravens_cry
2008-09-26, 05:47 PM
*Fails SAN check*

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 05:55 PM
It's not necessarily a self-insert. It's just someone who's ridiculously perfect, and yet, who almost always suffers from intense angst.

While I have a hard time actually recommending this, the BBEG absolutely must be Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way.

Google "My Immortal." It's a fanfic. Don't actually read it - instead, convince somebody you don't like to do so, then make the shattered remnants of their sanity sum up the tale for you.*stabs*

I hate you so much right now.

Tengu_temp
2008-09-26, 05:56 PM
Google "My Immortal." It's a fanfic. Don't actually read it - instead, convince somebody you don't like to do so, then make the shattered remnants of their sanity sum up the tale for you.

I've read it some time ago - it's not that bad and everyone can read it easily, without any mental damage or the need for brain bleach. Honest.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 06:01 PM
I've read it some time ago - it's not that bad and everyone can read it easily, without any mental damage or the need for brain bleach. Honest.I've read Youtube comments that were less horrifying. I'd have preferred hardcore Thatcher/Umbridge to that. :smalleek:

Tengu_temp
2008-09-26, 06:02 PM
Eh, the story gets better once Martians appear. Keep reading.

AstralFire
2008-09-26, 06:08 PM
Eh, the story gets better once Martians appear. Keep reading.

You are immensely quotable.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 06:10 PM
Eh, the story gets better once Martians appear. Keep reading.1:I'm not even sure it's English, how am I supposed to read it?
2:"It gets better once the martians appear" is not a ringing endorsement.
I will try, but just so I can forward it to all my friends(we're sort of s&m about San damage).

AslanCross
2008-09-26, 06:14 PM
It's not necessarily a self-insert. It's just someone who's ridiculously perfect, and yet, who almost always suffers from intense angst.

While I have a hard time actually recommending this, the BBEG absolutely must be Ebony Dark’ness Dementia Raven Way.

Google "My Immortal." It's a fanfic. Don't actually read it - instead, convince somebody you don't like to do so, then make the shattered remnants of their sanity sum up the tale for you.

Jergal's bones! Why did you have to bring up Ebony? X_X (Or as she calls herself, "Enoby.")

AstralFire
2008-09-26, 06:14 PM
Hey, if a Finnish native (Polish? I forget where Tengu's from) can read it, so can you. I don't think the monkey on typewriters component of fanfics quite changes it into a comprehensible foreign language.

Is anyone here familiar with the, I think it's the Black Jewels Trilogy? I had a friend who was big into it... with characters named things like Saetan SaDiablo.

chiasaur11
2008-09-26, 06:19 PM
Hey, if a Finnish native (Polish? I forget where Tengu's from) can read it, so can you. I don't think the monkey on typewriters component of fanfics quite changes it into a comprehensible foreign language.

Is anyone here familiar with the, I think it's the Black Jewels Trilogy? I had a friend who was big into it... with characters named things like Saetan SaDiablo.

Hey, Finland is hard core.

A Finnish sniper earned the name the white death. From Russians. In the winter.

Seriously, if Finns can't take mere awful fanfic, they are way below national average.

tarbrush
2008-09-26, 06:22 PM
I'd have preferred hardcore Thatcher/Umbridge to that. :smalleek:

Must... resist.. urge to write... Thatcher/Umbridge pornofanfic... in Shatnerese.

mostlyharmful
2008-09-26, 06:23 PM
*sigh* And all this time I have been using Heart. . .:smallsigh:

Who gives a crap if you can talk to monkies, Cleanse and Purify with extreme intolerance baby......:smallamused:

Moff Chumley
2008-09-26, 06:28 PM
I want in on this campaign. :smallyuk:

AstralFire
2008-09-26, 06:28 PM
Who gives a crap if you can talk to monkies, Cleanse and Purify with extreme intolerance baby......:smallamused:

Hey, Ma-Ti's got the most useful subtle power. That dystopian future episode (...one of them, anyway) of Captain Planet had an old drunk Ma-Ti sitting on a street corner pointing at people going "HEART. Gimme your wallet."

And people gave him their wallets.

No save Charm Monster/Suggestion? Yes plz.

mostlyharmful
2008-09-26, 06:31 PM
Hey, Ma-Ti's got the most useful subtle power. That dystopian future episode (...one of them, anyway) of Captain Planet had an old drunk Ma-Ti sitting on a street corner pointing at people going "HEART. Gimme your wallet."

And people gave him their wallets.

No save Charm Monster/Suggestion? Yes plz.

And if it was Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Mind-Rape I'm sure it would have been a much more entertaining show (and I'm sure there's at least one playgrounder that agrees... you know who you are....)

Fact was, alternate flash forwards aside, his usefulness could be summerised as approximately equivilant to that of a big bag of dead frogs.:smallfrown:

Boy that was a show that needed Anti-Sue agents, preferablly the type that leaves the clear-up with a vocabulary which involves "Blast Radius" and "Colatoral Damage"

Tengu_temp
2008-09-26, 06:33 PM
Hey, if a Finnish native (Polish? I forget where Tengu's from) can read it, so can you.

May the mysterious runes underneath my avatar enlighten you.

AstralFire
2008-09-26, 06:38 PM
And if it was Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Mind-Rape I'm sure it would have been a much more entertaining show ( and I'm sure there's at least one playgrounder that agrees... you know who you are....)

Fact was, alternate flash forwards aside, his usefulness could be summerised as approximately equivilant to that of a big bag of dead frogs.:smallfrown:

While this is true, if we're talking about actual usefulness, Fire is the last thing you should be using (as much as it pains me to admit.)

Every third episode had to have a scene like this:
WHEELER (Fire): Hey, that guy's getting away! I'll melt his tir-
LINKA (Wind): Oh! Veeler, you are not with the thinkings! You could hurt someone!
KWAME (Earth): Right. EARTH! (Kwame destroys the street, trapping the car inside of a group of artificial cliffs.)

or like this
WHEELER (Fire): Holy smokes, giant barrels of radiation are being thrown at us by Duke Nukem! I'll burn th-
GI (Water): Gee, Wheeler, think! That'll totally ruin the antarctic environment! I'll use some Water instead! (Gi summons a giant wave to catch the barrels instead, leaving them to slow leak into the antarctic tundra anyway.)

or like this

WHEELER (Fire): It's a giant evil being made out of ice! Time to use some firepo-
MA-TI (Heart): No! That-
WHEELER (Fire): ...Why not?
MA-TI (Heart): Uh... JUNGLE MONKEYS WILL DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! STOP WITH THE DESTRUCTIVE FIRE MY FRIEND!

mostlyharmful
2008-09-26, 06:44 PM
That#s cause they never had the balls for something along these lines...

Wheeler: Oh look, the cliche villian who is clearly so one dimensional they can't ever be redeemed is trying something hacknied... Tell you what, why don't I burn him into ash then fry his whole operation and barbeque all similar setups on the planet....
Airy-fairy chick 1: No, No you mustn't do that...
Airy-fairy chick 2: First we must fart about for a while.
Token Hippy: Not to mention the angsting about things we've got the power to change through direct action if we just got off our collective asses.
Wheeler: Screw you guys. BOOOOOOOM!!!!!!! Grow some.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 06:49 PM
That#s cause they never had the balls for something along these lines...

Wheeler: Oh look, the cliche villian who is clearly so one dimensional they can't ever be redeemed is trying something hacknied... Tell you what, why don't I burn him into ash then fry his whole operation and barbeque all similar setups on the planet....
Airy-fairy chick 1: No, No you mustn't do that...
Airy-fairy chick 2: First we must fart about for a while.
Token Hippy: Not to mention the angsting about things we've got the power to change through direct action if we just got off our collective asses.
Wheeler: Screw you guys. BOOOOOOOM!!!!!!! Grow some.My question was always why they didn't stop fighting people who would intentionally spend their entire companies resources on an oil tanker only to intentionally ram it into a coral reef(going out of business will stop their plots soon enough) and instead set that "water" guy up with a job at a power company. Free energy will stop more pollution than any mullet.

AstralFire
2008-09-26, 06:52 PM
My question was always why they didn't stop fighting people who would intentionally spend their entire companies resources on an oil tanker only to intentionally ram it into a coral reef(going out of business will stop their plots soon enough) and instead set that "water" guy up with a job at a power company. Free energy will stop more pollution than any mullet.

Because Ted Turner Is Crazy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TedTurnerIsCrazy).

...What? You tell me that's NOT a trope?

I'm sure someone will turn it into one in a month or so.

mostlyharmful
2008-09-26, 06:57 PM
Because Ted Turner Is Crazy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TedTurnerIsCrazy).

...What? You tell me that's NOT a trope?

I'm sure someone will turn it into one in a month or so.

And so the magic of the internet continues.. Think of it and it shall be so.

Back on topic. If you have one Sue you'll probably have a Mary or two about the place. Try to set up a situation where they'll have to fight it out through conflicting interest, one or the other will prove inferior in the "Power of Plot"TM

Enlong
2008-09-26, 07:01 PM
And if it was Fire, Earth, Water, Air and Mind-Rape I'm sure it would have been a much more entertaining show (and I'm sure there's at least one playgrounder that agrees... you know who you are....)

Fact was, alternate flash forwards aside, his usefulness could be summerised as approximately equivilant to that of a big bag of dead frogs.:smallfrown:

Avatar did Heart better anyways.

Gralamin
2008-09-26, 07:12 PM
I've read Youtube comments that were less horrifying.

Obligatory XKCD link. (http://xkcd.com/481/)

But the campaign idea sounds fun.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-26, 07:17 PM
Obligatory XKCD link. (http://xkcd.com/481/)

But the campaign idea sounds fun.Is it bad that earlier when I read that, my first response was to go on Skype and contact one of my hacker friends with a link and "Can you do this?"

Gralamin
2008-09-26, 07:20 PM
Is it bad that earlier when I read that, my first response was to go on Skype and contact one of my hacker friends with a link and "Can you do this?"

I have to say that no, this is not bad.

pingcode20
2008-09-26, 08:13 PM
Wait - I know Drizz't isn't a Mary Sue...

But that give me an idea!

Drizz't Clones

Have the PCs meet 'Drizz't' fighting off an army of cheap Mary-Sue Drizz't clones, with the goal of ending the aborted aberrations at their source. Eventually, it'll dawn on them that the 'Real Drizz't' they've been helping and following about is actually one of them. If they don't get the hint, have another 'Real Drizz't' out their 'leader' as a Mary Sue, and repeat until they get the hint.

UglyPanda
2008-09-26, 08:18 PM
I second the idea of an overpowered DMPC who swoops in to save the day constantly who will be killed by the players. I also support the idea of all the BBEGs being really really annoying. Possibly some of them would randomly teleport in front of the PCs to deliver some taunts, only to learn nothing is keeping the PCs from attacking her. It would be a random encounter that isn't just filler.

FMArthur
2008-09-26, 09:15 PM
I uh, don't think this is actually a feasible campaign idea. If you do it wrong, and the Mary Sues have only their explicitly stated powers, no intelligence, no pre-ordained fate of success, and none of their implicitly stated powers, then it won't be either difficult or special. If they have all of those things, then what will your party do?

Impossible Luck (Ex): Mary Sue is able to resist the effects of 'ordinary' attacks and abilities, even when it would otherwise be impossible. Super-amazing global-scale spells, or anything seriously dangerous that would stretch even Hollywood interpretations of mortality, are prevented from having any effect. This prevention can come from anything, but is usually just coincidental - some people have all the luck, and Mary Sues are literally conduits of pure luck - either from bloodlines, a carried artifact's previously unknown property, being in the right place at the right time, someone else's spells, pure emotional resistence, or anything else, really. Even plain old death can be shrugged off for the above reasons. Any time this ability might be circumvented by Fate itself, the combined will of every god, or the all-powerful plot, this character is always (100% of the time) saved by his or her friends just in the nick of time.

Danger Sense (Ex): Mary Sue has some natural intuition that informs her of anything even remotely threatening well in advance. At all moments, as well as between moments, Mary Sue is counted as casting all divination spells and gaining their results instantaneously. A Mary Sue may fluff this however she wants: it's a magical ability, it's a natural ability, it's something never, ever addressed, or it's a result of Mary Sue just being that damned smart: from the information gathered from the atoms in the surrounding area, Mary Sue can quickly surmise the history of the universe up until that point. It makes no difference.

"Persuasive" Speaker (Ex): When Mary Sue encounters an enemy she does not want to kill and wants to instead convert to her side, she unknowingly casts Mindrape just by talking to them and rearranges their minds to be identical to those of her friends. This selection is random: roll a d% for every enemy she encounters. If in a city or other populated area, then she uses this ability on those with a 20 or lower. Otherwise, it's only on a 1 that she uses this ability. When not selected by this ability, Mary Sue's enemies are slaughtered summarily and without mercy.

Calinero
2008-09-26, 09:26 PM
I humbly request that the characters Edward Cullen and Bella Swan be targeted in this campaign. No vampire should be shiny. Perhaps force them to suddenly adhere to the gruesome, non-glamorous rules that apply to traditional vampires?

Edward: I....I don't sparkle! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

TheThan
2008-09-26, 09:58 PM
Because Ted Turner Is Crazy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TedTurnerIsCrazy).

...What? You tell me that's NOT a trope?

I'm sure someone will turn it into one in a month or so.

I present exhibit A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNci-acbil4)

Ascension
2008-09-26, 10:06 PM
Lose the "Essence of Shakespeare" part. Go with Twain or something. Shakespeare is horrid.

Personally I can't stand Twain's novels, though his short stories were alright and he was great at coming up with quotable lines.

Someone's going to disagree with any author you name. Just pick somebody you think your players are likely to view as a god of writing and hope for the best.

chiasaur11
2008-09-26, 10:20 PM
I uh, don't think this is actually a feasible campaign idea. If you do it wrong, and the Mary Sues have only their explicitly stated powers, no intelligence, no pre-ordained fate of success, and none of their implicitly stated powers, then it won't be either difficult or special. If they have all of those things, then what will your party do?

Impossible Luck (Ex): Mary Sue is able to resist the effects of 'ordinary' attacks and abilities, even when it would otherwise be impossible. Super-amazing global-scale spells, or anything seriously dangerous that would stretch even Hollywood interpretations of mortality, are prevented from having any effect. This prevention can come from anything, but is usually just coincidental - some people have all the luck, and Mary Sues are literally conduits of pure luck - either from bloodlines, a carried artifact's previously unknown property, being in the right place at the right time, someone else's spells, pure emotional resistence, or anything else, really. Even plain old death can be shrugged off for the above reasons. Any time this ability might be circumvented by Fate itself, the combined will of every god, or the all-powerful plot, this character is always (100% of the time) saved by his or her friends just in the nick of time.

Danger Sense (Ex): Mary Sue has some natural intuition that informs her of anything even remotely threatening well in advance. At all moments, as well as between moments, Mary Sue is counted as casting all divination spells and gaining their results instantaneously. A Mary Sue may fluff this however she wants: it's a magical ability, it's a natural ability, it's something never, ever addressed, or it's a result of Mary Sue just being that damned smart: from the information gathered from the atoms in the surrounding area, Mary Sue can quickly surmise the history of the universe up until that point. It makes no difference.

"Persuasive" Speaker (Ex): When Mary Sue encounters an enemy she does not want to kill and wants to instead convert to her side, she unknowingly casts Mindrape just by talking to them and rearranges their minds to be identical to those of her friends. This selection is random: roll a d% for every enemy she encounters. If in a city or other populated area, then she uses this ability on those with a 20 or lower. Otherwise, it's only on a 1 that she uses this ability. When not selected by this ability, Mary Sue's enemies are slaughtered summarily and without mercy.

Geeze.

Want to leave ANYONE other than Pun Pun able to kill these guys?

streakster
2008-09-26, 10:29 PM
That's why you do this in Exalted. So, the Mary Sues are at the level of Gods? Sounds like a standard encounter.

Oooh, then the Abyssals are "goffic"!

Hadrian_Emrys
2008-09-26, 10:34 PM
I humbly request that the characters Edward Cullen and Bella Swan be targeted in this campaign. No vampire should be shiny. Perhaps force them to suddenly adhere to the gruesome, non-glamorous rules that apply to traditional vampires?

Edward: I....I don't sparkle! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Thank Bawb, another ally in the fight against horrid characterization in novels. :smallbiggrin: Start with Bella Swan, then move on to Anita Blake. They are tainting the vamp mythos. :smallannoyed:

Agrippa
2008-09-26, 10:40 PM
Geeze.

Want to leave ANYONE other than Pun Pun able to kill these guys?

Dicefreaks Asmodeus and Demogorgan practically have Strip Plot Armor and Nullify Mary Sue/Marty Stu as an Extraordinary abillities. Those powers may not be written into thier stat blocks but they have them. This is probably the same for other Lords of Hell and Demon Princes, Mephistopheles and Orcus included. This is in addition to Cosmic Ranks.

Jim Profit
2008-09-26, 10:46 PM
I think killing Mary Sues could be possible, just difficult. Giving the often genre blindness...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GenreBlindness?from=Main.GenreBlind

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhyDontYaJustShootHim
^--I'd use this trope. Usually those who do act rationally in fiction tend to be very unsuccesful. Do to either their lack of sheer power, or they're simply ignored.

FoE
2008-09-26, 11:07 PM
OK, here's what I'm proposing:

In FanFictionLand, a Mary Sue is the smartest, most talented and most beautiful person in the world. But a glut of Mary Sues has created an imbalance in the universe; after all, how can you be the most wonderful person if several people claim the title?

As a result, the power of the Mary Sues is in decline. Their powers are no longer as amazing as they should be. The PCs are contracted by one of the Sues to restore balance to the Sue-niverse.

Thane of Fife
2008-09-26, 11:12 PM
You mean like these:?

http://piratemonkeysinc.com/ms1.htm

Faithdreamer
2008-09-26, 11:14 PM
Baka! Tread lightly - all souls have rights to heaven.

A bloody crusade against Mary Sues may end up causing an imbalance in fiction land and make things worse. :smallannoyed:

She is not amused. Fiction land is not always fictional.

Face of Evil: Beware!

Ned the undead
2008-09-27, 12:00 AM
Promise me you will not reveal how Shakespeare's essense was extracted. PLEASE! :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

Spent a little too much time in /tg/ I see.

FoE
2008-09-27, 12:19 AM
You mean like these:?

http://piratemonkeysinc.com/ms1.htm

Exactly! That's where I was getting the Sueniverse reference from, but I couldn't remember the link. Thanks!

Now we need to think of possible Mary Sues to take down. I elect the following:

1) Dominic Deegan
2) Richard Rahl from the Sword of Truth

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-27, 12:30 AM
Exactly! That's where I was getting the Sueniverse reference from, but I couldn't remember the link. Thanks!

Now we need to think of possible Mary Sues to take down. I elect the following:

1) Dominic Deegan
2) Richard Rahl from the Sword of Truth3) Drizzit
4) Elminster

Jim Profit
2008-09-27, 12:43 AM
lol! I so want to join this game, I could play as myself. It's funny because everyone rants I try to be a mary sue. (Notice I said try..)

List of Accomplishments:
Have an IQ of 200. (Only four people EVER have historically had an IQ that high.. Though I claim my social awckwardness balances it out, you know, like L from deathnote!)

I was involved in the hardon collider project and am the reason we all didn't die. You're welcome..

Apparently know over eleven languages. Despite how I can barely type one.

Am second only to Moot at 4chan and he highly respects me. (He never returns my emails)

Always have atleast three girlfriends. Such a player! (All on the internet)

Gloat about how I'm an officer. (I'm a security guard, not even a very good one)



And hell, when I'm with James, we become like the elite mook duo.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/-21+24.jpg

chiasaur11
2008-09-27, 12:45 AM
OK, here's what I'm proposing:

In FanFictionLand, a Mary Sue is the smartest, most talented and most beautiful person in the world. But a glut of Mary Sues has created an imbalance in the universe; after all, how can you be the most wonderful person if several people claim the title?

As a result, the power of the Mary Sues is in decline. Their powers are no longer as amazing as they should be. The PCs are contracted by one of the Sues to restore balance to the Sue-niverse.

If your players are halfway decent, the quest giver dies first.

FoE
2008-09-27, 12:47 AM
Actually, you wouldn't have to use established Mary Sues. All you have to do is take down Mary Sues inserted into other fictional realms.

For example, in your first quest, you have to take down Jade, the awesome Pokemon trainer who just joined Ash's group. She is actually his sister and has greater skills than Ash, even though she only captured her first Pokemon a few weeks ago. Plus, Brock is her boyfriend and Misty has been forced out of the group. Your job is to bring Misty back and defeat Jade (which also involves getting Brock a date with Nurse Joy).


If your players are halfway decent, the quest giver dies first.

Pointless, since the problem remains the same: there can only be one Mary Sue in FanFictionland. And he/she is the only Mary Sue willing to help you destroy the others. So your job becomes that much harder.

And it's imperative that balance be restored to FanFictionland, or else the universe will collapse.

streakster
2008-09-27, 12:49 AM
3) Drizzit
4) Elminster

5)Grignr.
6) Anita Blake.

MeklorIlavator
2008-09-27, 12:56 AM
5)Grignr.
6) Anita Blake.


7)Eragon
8)Wesley Crusher
9)People (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu) on these pages (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue)

chiasaur11
2008-09-27, 01:03 AM
7)Eragon
8)Wesley Crusher
9)People (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu) on these pages (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue)

Fine, but if it gets extended to REX, THE WONDER DOG...

Well, all I'm saying is I don't like that party's odds. Rex is 100 proof badass.

Asbestos
2008-09-27, 01:15 AM
Fine, but if it gets extended to REX, THE WONDER DOG...

Well, all I'm saying is I don't like that party's odds. Rex is 100 proof badass.

Agreed. Any dog that thwarts Nazis and can defeat a T. Rex is untouchable. Feel free to eliminate the rest of the DC Comics animals though. I'm looking at you Comet, you freak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(DC_Comics))!

Kizor
2008-09-27, 02:59 AM
To butt into your affairs: Mary Sue's a widely understood term, but still slang. If all players are familiar with Harry Potter, I recommend printing out a couple of choice excerpts from the first links here (http://pottersues.livejournal.com/68705.html) to make sure everyone knows the concept and can work up a good mood.

You're going to have to give the characters some inconvenient flaws that only affect roleplaying, not the game mechanics. If the players ignore these flaws, use an alternate ending where the characters, these disproportionately powerful forces fulfilling their owners' wishes with exceptional supergear that have now been divested of human failings for the sake of convenience, start to detect as Mary Sues with their own gear.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-27, 03:15 AM
You're going to have to give the characters some inconvenient flaws that only affect roleplaying, not the game mechanics. If the players ignore these flaws, use an alternate ending where the characters, these disproportionately powerful forces fulfilling their owners' wishes with exceptional supergear that have now been divested of human failings for the sake of convenience, start to detect as Mary Sues with their own gear.Who doesn't have their character have flaws?:smallconfused: I've had LG characters progress towards expedience over right, Druids who view the weakness of the good races as a flaw that must be tempered away through opposition, drunk alchemists, and quite a few others. Flaws make them human.

Leliel
2008-09-27, 10:35 AM
[QUOTE=Sstoopidtallkid;4997902]Who doesn't have their character have flaws?:smallconfused: QUOTE]

The people who write Mary Sues.:smallamused:

UglyPanda
2008-09-27, 11:30 AM
Who doesn't have their character have flaws?:smallconfused:

The people who write Mary Sues.:smallamused:
No, they have flaws. Flaws like: "I'm so beautiful everyone hates me, but is actually secretly in love with me."; Or "I'm the last of my kind, which just so happens to be immortal and pretty forever.".

FoE
2008-09-27, 03:15 PM
"It's so awful that I have these cool magical powers that set me apart from everyone else."

Knaight
2008-09-27, 03:47 PM
"I'm addicted to alcohol, fortunately I can always get someone else to buy the drinks for me because I'm so pretty, I can't get drunk or have alcohol poisoning, and people like me even more when I'm drunk, plus all the bars are staffed with incredibly interesting people nearby who appreciate me"

As for Eragon being a Mary Sue, give me a break. That guy actually fails occasionally. The Mary Sue in that story is Roran. "Hi, I'm someone with no magical powers whatsoever, no real weapon training, or anything of the sort, and I still managed to kill nearly 200 trained soldiers in a single battle". Or just look at the fanfiction, there is one where someone introduced a second, incidentally female dragonrider, who radiated Mary Sue. And they didn't think about it either, they put them right in after Murtagh won the fight without even considering how their presence would have changed things. Honestly, you could have a few sessions just killing off new dragonrider who ignores setting description after new dragonrider who ignores setting description.

Hawriel
2008-09-27, 04:23 PM
The fact that they are going to hunt down and kill marry sues and succeed makes them, by the definition of a mary sue, a marry sue. So there for they must kill themselves.

Ravens_cry
2008-09-27, 04:37 PM
The fact that they are going to hunt down and kill marry sues and succeed makes them, by the definition of a mary sue, a marry sue. So there for they must kill themselves.
Yes, but only AFTER they dispose of the others. Like Othar Tryggvassen's plan.

The Glyphstone
2008-09-27, 05:42 PM
As for Eragon being a Mary Sue, give me a break. .

Yeah, Eragon isn't really a Mary Sue - unless you're willing to count Luke Skywalker as a Mary Sue as well, and that's a lot harder to justify.

Anakin Skywalker, on the other hand...but then, he's not really a Mary sue so much as Fireball Material Component annoying, and a lot of that was the actor.

Knaight
2008-09-27, 05:51 PM
The actors in the second and third of the prequel trilogy weren't that bad, although at that point the script was so incredibly angsty it didn't help much. But yeah, the guy in phantom menace couldn't act.

Tengu_temp
2008-09-27, 05:55 PM
The fact that they are going to hunt down and kill marry sues and succeed makes them, by the definition of a mary sue, a marry sue. So there for they must kill themselves.

Even if they are disfunctional and flawed characters who fight Mary-Sues with the combination of luck, tactics, dirty tricks, genre savviness and heavy firepower? I don't think if you know what the definition of a Mary-Sue is.

chiasaur11
2008-09-27, 06:29 PM
Even if they are disfunctional and flawed characters who fight Mary-Sues with the combination of luck, tactics, dirty tricks, genre savviness and heavy firepower? I don't think if you know what the definition of a Mary-Sue is.

True.
A Mal Reynolds type could drop several, and Mal's a fine character.

And Rex the Wonder Dog could be on top of a mile high pyramid of Sue corpses and not be a sue himself, because he's REX THE WONDERDOG, the most well developed and written fictional character ever.

comicshorse
2008-09-27, 09:36 PM
Okay I may very well be the only person in the world who remembers this character.....
In early Shadowrun fiction there was a female Were-Tiger called Stryper. Please, please have your group hunt down and kill, skin and display here stupendously annoying hide

Arbitrarity
2008-09-27, 11:11 PM
As for Eragon being a Mary Sue, give me a break. That guy actually fails occasionally. The Mary Sue in that story is Roran. "Hi, I'm someone with no magical powers whatsoever, no real weapon training, or anything of the sort, and I still managed to kill nearly 200 trained soldiers in a single battle".

Actually, he's probably Badass Normal (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassNormal)
And TVtropes disagrees.

Eragon from the Inheritance Trilogy Cycle is incredibly Stu-ish, gaining magical abilities beyond that of the other main characters in an implausible amount of time, and seemingly being able to do anything as the story calls for it. They still look up to him as a chosen figure, even though he treats them like dirt throughout the first two books (and The Film Of The First Book). With two books left to go in the "trilogy", his God Mode can only escalate from there.

The Glyphstone
2008-09-27, 11:38 PM
At least until someone edits it.

Arbitrarity
2008-09-27, 11:42 PM
And it hasn't been revised since book 1, unless I'm mistaken. :smallsigh:

Jim Profit
2008-09-28, 12:14 AM
And it hasn't been revised since book 1, unless I'm mistaken. :smallsigh:
Luckiely for you I'm lazy or I'd edit it just for the lulz.

That and I don't know what you guys are talking about. I'd end up writing "HAHAHAHA DISREGARD THAT!"

Thane of Fife
2008-09-28, 12:21 AM
Curse you, Arbitrarity, and your TVTropes link! I want to go to bed!

mabriss lethe
2008-09-28, 03:55 AM
Make the key to killing the mary sues involve drawing them out of their mary-sue-ness. Each individual mary sue would have a specific way to draw them back down towards "reality" In that moment, they'd be vulnerable and could be terminated with a well-timed hit squad style execution

NeoVid
2008-09-28, 04:46 AM
I have inspiration for you. (http://indiemadnesse.sandwich.net/extract/extract.html)

...It's been years since I read that. I forgot it was never completed. Now I'm depressed.

Jerthanis
2008-09-28, 04:59 AM
The thing is, Mary-Sues aren't the disease, they're merely symptoms of the real problem. A well done Mary-Sue makes for an awesome story from time to time. Riddick from Pitch Black and Chronicles of Riddick is insanely Sue-ish, but those movies are still pretty good. Superman probably scores at 80+ on that one online Mary Sue quiz, yet he's existed and been a beloved icon for almost a century. Under certain definitions of Marty Stu, the hero protagonist of my beloved "Acts of Caine" series by Matthew Woodring Stover could even qualify, and that story is eleven pounds of asskicking in a five pound bag.

Anyway, as a game concept, it sounds silly and fun. What sounds really interesting though about the game would be the shifting of perspectives as the characters travel from paradigm to paradigm. What could make it a lot of fun is if the players, instead of making characters, just give the GM a sheet of paper with a quick verbal sketch of what their character's overall skills and abilities are like, and the GM builds them statistically in several different systems, which the players traverse in their hunt.

Maybe not a good idea, but it's an idea.

snoopy13a
2008-09-28, 07:29 AM
Superman probably scores at 80+ on that one online Mary Sue quiz, yet he's existed and been a beloved icon for almost a century.

I think Superman is the exception that proves the rule. Superman needs to exist to present a foil for all the anti-heroes. After all, one cannot be an edgy anti-hero without the existence of a boy-scout hero like Superman. However, we only need one Superman.

Instead of a campaign against Mary-Sues, why not a campaign as Mary-Sues. It would have to be a one-off campaign as it would get old fast but I think a session where the NPCs worship over the characters and everything goes right could be funny. Plus, all of the PCs would have attributes of 18 and pretty much any spell or feat they'd like :smalltongue:

Learnedguy
2008-09-28, 08:49 AM
I think Superman is the exception that proves the rule. Superman needs to exist to present a foil for all the anti-heroes. After all, one cannot be an edgy anti-hero without the existence of a boy-scout hero like Superman. However, we only need one Superman.

Instead of a campaign against Mary-Sues, why not a campaign as Mary-Sues. It would have to be a one-off campaign as it would get old fast but I think a session where the NPCs worship over the characters and everything goes right could be funny. Plus, all of the PCs would have attributes of 18 and pretty much any spell or feat they'd like :smalltongue:

Nah, killing them is much funnier.

besides, there's a limited amount of Stuisness one can take before you start feeling icky.

shaddy_24
2008-10-25, 09:21 PM
I was thinking of this and I found an absolutally epic campagn idea from it. It would be a freeform game. Now, bear with me here...

"You each once wrote a Mary Sue, much to your regret. When the Over Author found you, he revealed to you the horrors of what you wrote and recruited you to his team. He uses his great powers to insert you into other Mary Sue stories, and you hunt down and defeat them in their own world."

Basically, it'd be a free-form game where you each play as a former Mary Sue. You are a group of authors who use the mistical power of the Over Author to put your Mary Sues into the story of another Suethor. You then combine your powers to defeat them, or show them the error in their ways. The Over Author combines his powers with yours in order to over power the Suethor and destroy their power.

It would be a basic free-form game where all of the players are fighting against the last one (the Suethor). This last player is being stupid and making up powers as they go, basically saying "oh yeah? Well, my guy is immune to that! Neah!" The person "playing" the Suethor would write in Suethor style (ie. bad grammer and characters), which would begin to change as you all and the Over Author begin to overpower them.

What do you all think?

Starbuck_II
2008-10-25, 09:43 PM
Hey, Ma-Ti's got the most useful subtle power. That dystopian future episode (...one of them, anyway) of Captain Planet had an old drunk Ma-Ti sitting on a street corner pointing at people going "HEART. Gimme your wallet."

And people gave him their wallets.

No save Charm Monster/Suggestion? Yes plz.

True, he makes you feel his pain so more like Charm. You are his best buddy (charm) and he has Cha out his wazoo.
Of course you'll follow his orders.

Why he didn't use his powers as a kid? Bercause he was innocent and pure.
When he grew up he optimized better. Live and learn then use heart.

Agrippa
2008-10-25, 11:56 PM
Have the PCs be Westleys (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWestley) hunting down and killing or de-Sueifying these Mary Sue and Marty Stu pests. Just as smart, pretty, nobleminded, charismatic and powerful as the Mary Sues they face but with actual personalities including flaws and they actually act as smart, moral and charismatic as they're described. They can be original characters or from other works. Agatha Heterodyne and Gilgamesh Wulfenbach (from Girl Genius), Katara and Aang (from Avatar: The Last Airbender), Captain Carrot Ironfounderson (from Discworld), The Doctor (from Doctor Who), Kurosaki Ichigo (from Bleach) and Thrall (from Warcraft) all being led by of course Westley (from The Princess Bride) would be a great party. They might even get a chance to take on Sephiroth. Poor poor psychopathic little mama's boy. I'd almost feel sorry for him, especially during the full moon. Well, almost.

Nerd-o-rama
2008-10-26, 12:39 AM
I think someone statted up Dominic Deegan for D&D once...he was pretty nasty. I guess this'd be a high-power campaign.

WitchSlayer
2008-10-26, 05:12 AM
This is a great silly campaign idea. I'd also suggest placing a few characters from fiction, usually from the Sue they're hunting, to give them a point in the right direction, or for comedic effect.

Fri
2008-10-26, 02:52 PM
The fact that they are going to hunt down and kill marry sues and succeed makes them, by the definition of a mary sue, a marry sue. So there for they must kill themselves.

Ominous opening narator tone


He who fights with mary sues might take care lest he thereby become a mary sue. And if you gaze for long into a mary sue the mary sue will gaze back into you.


Nietzche said that so it must be true :smallwink:

Agrippa
2008-10-26, 05:49 PM
I think someone statted up Dominic Deegan for D&D once...he was pretty nasty. I guess this'd be a high-power campaign.

Dominic Deegan in the new 3.75 format. Enjoy. I'll need some help finishing him though.

Dominic Deegan (CR 28)
Wizard (diviner) 3, Psion (telepath) 3, Cerebromancer 22, Mogul of Dispater 10
Lawful Evil Male Medium Humanoid (human)
Init: +2 Senses: Search +19
Aura: Law, Evil, follower of Dispater; Languages:
Height: not sure Weight: not sure
__________________________________________________ ___________

AC: 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+ Armor, +2 Dex, + Deflection, + Level bonus)
hp: 204 (28d4 (65)+10d6 (50)+70+6) Wound Threshold: 5 Wound Points: 15
Fort: +17, Ref: +20, Will: +24, +34 against mind-influencing effects
__________________________________________________ ___________

Speed: 40 feet
Melee: +18 Rod of Enlightenment +3 axiomatic light mace (1d6+3+2d6), full attack: +18/+14/+8 Rod of Enlightenment +3 axiomatic light mace (1d6+3+2d6)
Space: 5 ft. /5 ft.
Base Attack: +8/+9
Attack Options: Corporate bid, economics of extortion 2/day, hostile takeover, insider trading at will, pull the strings 2/day, wizard spells and psionic powers.
Special Actions: Enterprising +6, member of the board, mind of steel., wizard spells and psionic powers.
Combat Gear: Rod of Enlightenment and Scarf of Dis
__________________________________________________ ___________
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15 (+2 for levels), Con 15, Int 23 (+2 for levels and +4 due to tome of clear thought), Wis 16, Cha 23 (+5 for levels, +3 for tome of leadership and influence)
Special Qualities:
Feats: Combat Casting (Racial bonus), Scribe Scroll (Wizard Class bonus), Deceitful (1st level), Improved Familiar* (3rd level), Quicken Power (Psion Class bonus), Extend Spell (6th level), Spell Focus (Divination) (9th level), Imposter (12th level), Devotee of Darkness (Dispater) (15th level), Psionic Body (18th level), Expanded Knowledge (27th level), Extended Trading (30th level), Evil Brand (invisible, but it exists) (33rd level)
Epic Feats: Epic Spellcasting (21st level), Lightning Trade (24th level), Epic Expanded Knowledge (36th level)
Skills: Craft (alchemy) rank 18: bonus +24, Knowledge (arcana) rank 24: bonus +30, Knowledge (psionics) rank 22: bonus +28, Knowledge (psychology) rank 20: bonus +26, Knowledge (the planes) rank 22: bonus +28, Knowledge (local) rank 24: bonus +30, Knowledge (religion) rank 18: bonus +24, Profession (fortune teller) rank 16: bonus +19, Psicraft rank 11: bonus +23, Spellcraft ranks 24: bonus +30, +60 when summoning Dispater, Bluff rank 28: bonus +38 or +40 when dealing with Evil creatures and an additional +2 when in character, Intimidate rank 25: bonus +35 or +37 when dealing with Evil creatures, Sense Motive rank 24: bonus +32, Diplomacy rank 28: bonus +38 or +40 when dealing with Evil creatures, Gather Information rank 22: bonus + 27 or +29 when dealing with Evil creatures, Forgery rank 13: bonus + 19, Balance rank 13: bonus + 15, Search rank 13: bonus +19, Disguise rank 8: +16
Possessions: Rod of Enlightenment, Scarf of Dis and spellbooks
_________________________________________

Devotee of Darkness: Once per day, Dominic can call upon the aid of Dispater, granting him a +3 profane bonus to any one roll. Against chaotic or good foes, Dominic gains a +1 profane bonus to Armor Class, and once per day
can gain a +2 profane bonus on saving throws against a spell with the chaotic or good descriptor. He also gains
spell resistance 35 against chaotic and good spells and spell-like abilities. Whenever dealing with a higher-ranking servant of Dispater (or the Lord of the Iron Tower himself), Dominic takes a –2 penalty on attacks, checks, and other rolls, a –3 penalty to Armor Class, and a -6 penalty to saving throws. In addition, no spell resistance Dominic obtains is ever effective against such creatures.

Spells Prepared (4/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/5) per day, save DC 16 + spell level [+1 for Divination]; necromancy is prohibited): Caster level 25th, 35th for Divination.
0-varries
1st-varries
2nd-varries
3rd-varries
4th-varries
5th-varries
6th-varries
7th-varries
8th-varries
9th-varries

Spellbooks: All core wizard spells except for necromancy. Non-core spells include mind rape, sacrificial skill**, heroism, evil eye, greater scrying, fiendish clarity, devil's eye and glimpse of truth from the Book of Vile Darkness along with vision of fear.

Epic Spells Known: Damnation and Circle of the Nine Pits.
Epic Spells per day: 2

Psionics: 383 power points; manifester level 25th, 35th for Telepathy; save DC 16 + power level; 37 powers known.
Powers Known: Charm Psionic, Mindlink, Read Thoughts, Psionic Suggestion, False Sensory Input, Psionic Dominate, Thieving Mindlink, Psionic Modify Memory, Metaconcert, Mind Probe, Know Direction and Location, Sense Link, Conceal Thoughts, Psychic Chiurgery, Detect Psionics, Distract, Defensive Precognition, Offensive Precognition, Offensive Prescience, Energy Ray, Detect Hostile Intent, Energy Push, Psionic Levitate, Thought Shield, Psionic Tongues, Danger Sense, Psionic Darkvision, Dismiss Ectoplasm, Dispel Psionics, Ubiquitous Vision, Aura Sight, Psionic Divination, Psionic True Seeing, Psionic Mind Blank, Evade Burst, Psychic Crush, Eradicate Invisibility,
Energy Current and Object Reading.

Incantations known: Incantation of the Pit and Unholy Supplication.

Enterprising (Ex): Dominic knows how to conduct business in a way that suits his purposes. He gains a +5 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks.

Lightning Trade (Su): At will, Dominic can use detect thoughts in a 90 foot radius emanation (Will save: DC 22). The emanation can either be centered on himself, on upon any creature under the effects of pull the strings or hostile takeover (so long as said creature is on the same plane as Dominic). Insider trading can only be used in one location at any one time, regardless of where the effect is centered. Spell resistance does not apply, and because of extended trading the ability lasts for up to 20 rounds. Dominic doesn't have to concentrate to maintain the effect, and it only takes one round to pick up surface thoughts; new creatures entering the effect must save or also be affected, but once a creature successfully saves against the effect, she is immune to it for 24 hours.

Corporate Bid (Su): Dominic can make a suggestion (Will save: DC 22) to every creature that fails its save against lightning trade, to a maximum of 12 creatures per day.

Hostile Takeover (Su): 1/day, Dominic can use dominate monster (Will save: DC 22) on any creature that has failed its save against his lightning trade ability. Caster level 22nd.

Economics of Extortion (Su): 2/day, Dominic can generate greater profit from his interactions with others. He can increase the save DC on lightening trade or pull the strings by +3. Alternatively, he can triple the duration of all uses for lightening trade for the day.

Mind of Steel (Ex): Dominic gains a +10 bonus on all saves against mind-influencing effects.

Pull the Strings (Sp): 2/day, any creature that has failed its save against lightning trade can be affected by pull the strings if it fails another Will save (DC 31). An affected creature is under the effects of a geas, as determined by Dominic. Caster level 20th.

Member of the Board (Su): Dominic is one of the most trusted servants of Dispater. As a Member of his Board he is immune to all mind-influencing effects as per the mind blank spell; this immunity does not extend to mind-influencing effects originating from Dispater and his higher-ranking servants. As an expression of the power that Master Dominic has risen to, he is able to use Insider Trading at will; furthermore, the effect can be centered on any creature under the effects of Pull the Strings or Hostile Takeover, so long as said creature is on the same plane as the mogul. Insider Trading can only be used in one location at any one time, no matter where the effect is centered.

*Instead of giving Dominic a brand new familiar, this version of Improved Familiar gives the creature (Spark) the ability to speak earlier and a +4 to intelligence. **The sacrifice causes emotional and psychological damage instead of bodily death. Dominic may use Knowledge (psychology) instead of Knowledge (religion).

Dominic Deegan is a clever and ambitious young man. He has the ear of at least three major rulers and the whole tied to a string around his finger. He is also a dangerous fanatic who honestly believes that to establish Heaven upon earth he must submit to the power of Hell. Not the "Hell" his world is accustom to but to the true Hell, Perdition its self. Dominic's ultimate goal is to make a world without anger, rage or sin. This does not however preclude him from exploiting the vices and rage of others.

Unique items:

[/I]Rod of Enlightenment:[/I] This rod is a spiraled ivory-colored shaft capped with a glowing chrystal orb and has the properties of a +3 axiomatic light mace. It can be used to aid in the summoning of Dispater and has spell-like properties.

The following spell-like functions of the rod areas below.

Programmed amnesia upon touch, if the wielder so commands (Will DC 26 (10+Mogul levels + Intelligence or Charisma bonus) negates). The wielder must choose to use this power and then succeed on a melee touch attack to activate the power. If the attack fails, the effect is lost. At will. Must have at least 2 levels in Mogul of Dispater to employ this power.

Dominate person upon touch, if the wielder so commands (Will DC 26 (10+Mogul levels + Intelligence or Charisma bonus) negates). The wielder must choose to use this power and then succeed on a melee touch attack to activate the power. If the attack fails, the effect is lost. Three times per day. Must have at least 5 Mogul levels to employ this power.

Mind rape upon touch, if the wielder so commands (Will DC 26 (10+Mogul levels + Intelligence or Charisma bonus) negates). The wielder must choose to use this power and then succeed on a melee touch attack to activate the power. If the attack fails, the effect is lost. Once per day. Must have at least 8 Mogul levels to employ this power.

The Rod of Enligtenment also grants a +30 bonus to Spellcraft checks for summoning Dispater. The weilder must have the Epic Spellcasting feat and 10 levels in Mogul of Dispater.

[/I]Scarf of Dis:[/I] This brightly colored scarf provides Dominic the benefits of a casting of undetecable alignment. It also raises his effective caster level for Divination by 10 and his manifester level for all Telepathy by the same number. The Scarf also grants Dominic a 60' radius Acedia's Influence, 3/day at DC 26.