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Idea Man
2008-09-26, 09:42 PM
Would a bugbear (base CR 2) with one level of fighter and one level of rogue be a CR 3 or CR 4 encounter?

Rogue is the "preferred" class, so, hypothetically, fighter should be "non-associated". I'm thinking of using some leveled bugbears as guards in my next encounter, and ftr/rog is a classic combo for them. Just don't want to hand out too much XP. :smalltongue:

Crow
2008-09-26, 10:29 PM
I believe that would be CR4.

Chronos
2008-09-26, 10:40 PM
Favored classes have hard and fast rules, but associated classes are a lot more fuzzy. Basically, you have to ask, "Will this class play to the monster's strengths?". Wizard, for instance, would not be an associated class for a bugbear, since every round that it's casting a spell, it's not whacking opponents with its superior strength. But what a fighter does in combat is pretty much the same as what a classless bugbear does in combat, so fighter would be playing to its strength. So fighter should be considered associated.

jcsw
2008-09-26, 11:41 PM
Would a bugbear (base CR 2) with one level of fighter and one level of rogue be a CR 3 or CR 4 encounter?

Rogue is the "preferred" class, so, hypothetically, fighter should be "non-associated". I'm thinking of using some leveled bugbears as guards in my next encounter, and ftr/rog is a classic combo for them. Just don't want to hand out too much XP. :smalltongue:

If you don't wanna hand out too much EXP, just explain to the players why, and just give them less.

Cause optimizing your CR to be as low as possible is like being good at vocabulary by making up more words. (Okay, bad analogy).

Of course, there's a difference between optimizing CR than playing your enemies intelligently. You can have a hard encounter even with low CR monsters, as long as they're played intelligently. See tucker's kobolds.

sonofzeal
2008-09-27, 12:33 AM
"Fighter" would be associated for Bugbears, as would Barbarian, Ranger, and of course Rogue. As Chronos said, what matters is that it makes sense as a reasonable choice for the race. Wizard, Sorcerer, and Bard would certainly be non-associated; Paladin and Monk probably would be associated even though the flavor is odd; Cleric and Druid are borderline.

BobVosh
2008-09-27, 01:13 AM
"Fighter" would be associated for Bugbears, as would Barbarian, Ranger, and of course Rogue. As Chronos said, what matters is that it makes sense as a reasonable choice for the race. Wizard, Sorcerer, and Bard would certainly be non-associated; Paladin and Monk probably would be associated even though the flavor is odd; Cleric and Druid are borderline.

I want to see a paladin of Tyranny Bugbear now. Thanks a lot.

AslanCross
2008-09-27, 02:10 AM
Just because a class isn't favored doesn't mean it's non-associated. Take the case of the very confused Ogre Mage: Its favored class is Sorcerer, but Sorcerer is actually not associated for it due to its Giant type (since it doesn't really contribute much) It's better off with some levels of Fighter or Blackguard. Then again, it really depends on what you want to do with it.

Frosty
2008-09-27, 02:33 AM
I want to see a paladin of Tyranny Bugbear now. Thanks a lot.

Isn't there a picture of one in the Unearthed Arcana?

RTGoodman
2008-09-27, 02:38 AM
I want to see a paladin of Tyranny Bugbear now. Thanks a lot.


http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/UnA_Gallery/79148.jpg

I'm not sure if it's a Bugbear Paladin of Tyranny and a Drow Paladin of Slaughter or the other way around, but that's the picture.

Chronos
2008-09-27, 12:33 PM
How do you know the bugbear's not the paladin of freedom? I'm not sure I trust that guy with the bow.

kjones
2008-09-27, 12:39 PM
How do you know the bugbear's not the paladin of freedom? I'm not sure I trust that guy with the bow.

Chronos, you win one Internet. Use it well.

BobVosh
2008-09-27, 01:19 PM
why isn't the drow saying "ow, sun, ow"?

Prometheus
2008-09-27, 01:23 PM
May the Bugbear rebels prevail! Kill the soft skins!

sonofzeal
2008-09-27, 01:43 PM
How do you know the bugbear's not the paladin of freedom? I'm not sure I trust that guy with the bow.
Because he has Spikes of Villainy (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpikesOfVillainy)! Duh! :smallbiggrin: