What are your favorite RPG series?

[Kaihaku]

My favorite RPG series generally connect and build off of each previous games. My top three are interchangeable, I can't decide on a favorite from among them because each has a unique feel.

Dragon Warrior/Quest
There's something magical about this series, the opening fanfare in each new game makes me tremble. The first trilogy (Erdick or Roto), especially number three, is simply stunning for its time. The second trilogy (Heavens) is spectacular and I'd put Dragon Warrior 4 and Dragon Quest 5 easily among the best RPGs I've ever played. The games since then have been good and retained the proper feel, but I don't feel they matched the high point of 4 and 5. I'm also a big fan of Dragon Warrior Monsters. Rawr. The weird thing about Dragon Warrior is that its so fulfilling and compelling (lots of Japanese agree with me) while being so simple...though maybe that, and the music, is the heart of its charm.

Phantasy Star
The original four games, the classic series, is quite simply the best fusion of science fiction and fantasy that I've ever seen. Algol, or Algo so I don't get sniped, is one of most original and finest settings I've seen. I've run several freeform and custom system campaigns in Algol and I'll probably create a Phantasy Star d20 for 4e (for reasons that should be obvious to anyone familiar with both systems). My favorite is Phantasy Star I followed by Phantasy Star IV. I love how IV incorporates elements of every previous game, even the oddball III. I think Phantasy Star II is a classic but it's just so depressing... I like Phantasy Star Online but it's not the same series, sorry, and it's not nearly as well done.

Ultima
The grandfather of digital RPGdom as we know it, the first RPG I played was Ultima III: Exodus and I've been a fan since. Ultima was a revolutionary force in gaming, one that few other series can compare to... From the morality system from Quest of the Avatar to the moongates and non-linear plot... Then the detail of the world. My favorite games are III (nostalgia mostly), VI (questing for morality rather than to beat a BBEG was genius), and VI (False Prophet has one of the best video game plots ever).

Honorary mention goes to...
o The Chrono series for Chrono Trigger and it's excellent sequel Chrono Cross. The series is too short however, so depressing.
o The Fire Emblem series for their excellent tactical RPGs. FE Seisen no Keifu or Genealogy of the Holy War is easily one of the best RPGs I've played period (playing without reading the plot beforehand made the experience ten times greater). Unfortunately, I don't like that the world doesn't carry over from game to game in Fire Emblem (usually, there are those three notable exceptions).
o The Lunar series would make the list if it had more real sequels or if Dragonsong had been even half as good as Eternal Blue and Silver Star Story.

So, what are yours?

[Oregano]

Dragonwarrior/Quest=yes, they're excellent games, I prefer the difficulty and the humour in them more than anything and the anime style is quite cool, it means that Square/enix didn't have to blow all their budget on the graphics.

Final Fantasy: I knows there's a lot hate for the FF series but most of it comes down to a hate of Random Encounters(which were pretty much a given in JRPGs until recently) and the characters(There has been character's I've disliked but I've never hated a Final Fantasy character). Anyway, I think they have good stories, great characters, expertly designed and I think they're always a bit ahead of their time(with graphics and such).

Elder Scrolls: Prefer Morrowind, I like the freedom presented in the games and the fact you can create your own character(completely), I also really like the fact that they make the story about you in Morrowind yet you're not a preset character.

KOTOR: Excellent games, probably the best star wars games out there(IMHO), with excellent choices, good story, likeable character(Carth's probably the most unlikeable) and they're fun.

TRPGs

Nippon Ichi series: I've only actually played Makai Kingdom but I'm looking forward to Disagea for the DS, excellent, the gameplay is fantastic and fun, there's a lot of humour and you design your own units.

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance: I'd probably love tactics but never got a chance to play it, anyway, these are fun, with likeable characters and some really good design choices(love nearly all the jobs).

Fire Emblem: Need I explain this, fantastic lengthy battles, really hard and the characters are cool.

Some Honourable mentions

Pokemon, Kingdom Hearts(it made Mickey Mouse badass), The mana series, Breath of Fire, Shin Megami Tensei, Lodoss Wars, Phantasy Star.

EDIT: Haven't played Chrono Trigger but I'm expecting it to be awesome for the DS.

[Morty]

Baldur's Gate: They might be more hack'n'slashes than RPGs for the most time, but they'll always have a special place in my heart. Both out of sentiment and actual value.

[Kaihaku]

Final Fantasy: I knows there's a lot hate for the FF series but most of it comes down to a hate of Random Encounters(which were pretty much a given in JRPGs until recently) and the characters(There has been character's I've disliked but I've never hated a Final Fantasy character).

Honestly, the number one problem I have with Final Fantasy is that the loudest segment of its fanbase has been blasting "Final Fantasy is the ultimate best ever and everything else is just stupid garbage" for a long time. I actually like several Final Fantasy games but that portion of the fanbase and the emphasis on graphics has turned me away from the newer games. The series has had some real gems though.

[Volug]

Fire Emblem

Okami is not an RPG

A couple Final Fantasy games here and there (Mostly Tactics Advanced)

Okami is not an RPG

Super Mario RPG Legend of Seven stars and Other Mario RPGS (not Super Paper Mario, it sucked, and is mostly platformer now)

Okami still isn't an RPG

[Oregano]

Honestly, the number one problem I have with Final Fantasy is that the loudest segment of its fanbase has been blasting "Final Fantasy is the ultimate best ever and everything else is just stupid garbage" for a long time. I actually like several Final Fantasy games but that portion of the fanbase and the emphasis on graphics has turned me away from the newer games. The series has had some real gems though.

I know, Final Fantasy is probably my favourite RPG series, and I honestly believe they're great but I understand they have flaws.

The emphasis on graphics isn't that bad, it's gotten slightly worse since ten, but I liked VII and VIII and they had superb graphics for their time, I also thought that it didn't compromise the gameplay or story(although there was some bad design choices in them.

No Okami isn't an RPG! Neithers the Legend of Zelda!

[Inhuman Bot]

Okami is only and RPG if your thinking of playing the role of the charcter, as even most games in the "RPG" genre have little roleplaying.

Favorite RPGS:

The mario ones: I liked the interactivness during battle, the humor, and the general lack of suck.

The elder scrolls: Though I didn't particuarly like arena (It's just... meh), and I can't say anything on daggerfall (Except it is said to have loads of bugs), I liked Morrowind, despite playing it when I was too young to appreciate it's fun and freedom. To a bit of a lesser extent, it's the same ith Oblivion.
Oh, and sense I didn't hear any of the hype, (Which I'am told was lies) I was able to take it at face value.

Unsure, right now, but the fallout series.: I haven't actually played these, yet reading about them shows alot of promise
Same with PS:T

Fire emblem right now, I've only played the north american ones, but I like the strategy, and in a maschosit kind of way, the hair pulling when a charter dies when there only one enemy left. >.>

More later.

[Tom_Violence]

Falout tops my list - not only are the original two perhaps the best things ever, I really like Tactics and even managed to get some enjoyment out of that weird console thingy they made. Hah!

Then comes Neverwinter Nights. The second incarnation may lack a little in the polish department, but I still think they're amazing stuff. The original campaigns in both are absolutely ****balls, but the expansions (in the first game at least - when I finally get my new computer through then those for the second shall be experienced) more than made up for it. And that's without even touching on the opportuinities provided by the toolset; fan-made PWs gave me hours upon days upon months of good ol' fashioned RP fun.

KotOR comes next. I'm not one of the biggest fans of the first one (though it is certainly an awesome game), but the second one is one of the best games I've ever played, and a strong contender for most Replayed Ever By Me.

RPGs are my favourite genre, I reckon, but in terms of series I can't really name many more strong ones. Since I play mostly Western RPGs (the so-called jRPGs never having really hooked me), there's a long list of one-off games that distinguish themselves and less of a focus on series.

[Texas Jedi]

Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and Throne of Blood The best straight DnD based RPG's there are, hands down.

KOTOR The second one did tarnish the image of the excellent first one. That is only reason why this is number 2 on the list

Dragonquest/Warrior It is hard to find a series of games where they are all good to great games. Like Oregano said I love the light heartedness of them and the difficulty of them.

Might and Magic up to World of Xeen First person RPG's at their early and best.

Final Fantasy pre FFVII Each of them before Seven was a gem and great in their own ways. The series reached its peak at FFVI.

Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross The second one just had way to many playable characters that didn't do anything. The first one is just perfect. I think the stories are interesting and the all of the characters in the first and important characters in the second are really well done.

Dungeon Seige Great Hackn'Slash RPG that lets you build the character you want to play.

[Geno9999]

Super Mario RPGs; Funny, addicting, and fun game mechanics. Yes, I liked Super Paper Mario. Tho, that might not count since it's a platformer.

Fire Emblem; as shown above, Hard, long battles, tears shed when a character dies.

Haven't played any rpgs outside of those games.

[Vespe Ratavo]

Knights of the Old Republic, 1 and 2, are my favorite RPGs, and probably my favorite games of all time. If not my favorite games, they're definitely in the top 5.

[Castaras]

Might and Magic VII and VIII.

Followed quite far behind by Neverwinter Nights I.

[itsmeyouidiot]

not Super Paper Mario, it sucked

Why? I liked the whole puzzle-platformer-RPG thing.

Why does everyone feel compelled to bash it simply because it's less traditional?

"Why can't this be more like the original Paper Mario and other games in different genres?"

As for my favorite series, Golden Sun, Breath of Fire, Phantasy Star, Tales of Whatever, Final Fantasy, Mario's RPGs, Fire Emblem, Shining Force, and Lunar.

I might have Dragon Quest here, but I never actually managed to beat IV. Chrono Trigger was awesome, but two games and a re-release aren't exactly enough for a series, per se.

[Volug]

Why? I liked the whole puzzle-platformer-rpg thing.

Why does everyone feel compelled to bash it simply because it's less traditional?

"Why can't this be more like the original Paper Mario and other games in different genres?"

Can I have my own opinion please...?

[Triaxx]

I disagree that FF went completely bad after 7. Seven was... over-hyped. The Crysis of it's day. 8 was okay, but put way too much love story in to have any shot at a less than confusing, main story.

9 was simply amazing.
10 was horrifying.
Let's not mention 11.

I have yet to play 12, but all reports are good.

---

That said:

Fallout series: Simply amazing the first was well done, the second even better. The third looks quite impressive, and Tactics was almost more fun than FFT.

Ogre Battle series: Yes, they are RPG's and yes, they are incredibly fun.

Baldur's Gate series: Fun combat, fun dialogue, fun characters.

Legend of Zelda series: This is a hybrid RPG/ action adventure. And the entire series is fun. I loved the first two, loved LttP, Love OoT, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.

Dungeon Siege series: All sorts of fun. Cool spells, lite on the conversation, but still an awesome romp.

[Oregano]

Legend of Zelda series: This is a hybrid RPG/ action adventure. And the entire series is fun. I loved the first two, loved LttP, Love OoT, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and Twilight Princess.


Sorry to derail but I must ask, other than Link's Adventure, what RPG elements do the games have?(I haven't really noticed any). It's just that it's been called an RPG numerus times on these boards and it's jarring(well to me anyway), especially when some of the people saying it claim that Final Fantasy isn't an RPG.

EDIT: FF12 is a mediocre game, but bad compared to the other FFs, I think it's worse than X to be honest and there's very few likeable characters.

[Pronounceable]

Baldur's Gate and Fallout are given. So is KotoR. Torment is not a series, so it doesn't count here.

Apart from them, Spiderweb series of Geneforge and Exile/Avernum.


And although I quite want to see what's the big deal with all these "Final Fantasies" (just how final are these anyway?), jRPG gameplay is unbearable.

[warty goblin]

Not sure how much it counts as an RPG* per say, but I just picked up S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl last night again after having not played for a couple months, and I forget how insanely atmospheric that game is. I stopped after half an hour because I was literally too scared to keep playing after various boxes started throwing themselves at me and I was brutally slashed to death by...something, even after I shot it four times point blank with tungsten cored 12 gauge slugs, an amount of firepower which would have left anything human spattered across a good portion of the scenery.

*I mean, it doesn't really do advancement of stats, but it's got an RPG inventory and dialog system, and it certainly tracks as many stats as most RPGs, you just don't advance them in the usual way.

[Lert, A.]

A good number of the above: FF, PS, KotOR, Fallout, Chrono Trigger.

But why had no one else mentioned The Witcher?:smallmad:

Edit: and now I see a thread title on the Witcher enhanced. That there is called irony.

[Cubey]

But why had no one else mentioned The Witcher?:smallmad:


Perhaps because it's not a series? Well, not the game at least. The books are.

[Lert, A.]

I now deem the enhanced version to be a new game, thereby making the Witcher a series.

The Lert has spoken. So let it be done.:smallbiggrin:

[Spiryt]

I'm going to be boring and say

Baldur's Gate. Hands down, bow.

Fallout is also more than full ow awesome, although I never like it so much from some reason.:smallconfused:

[Kimusabe]

Well I haven't actually played that many that I can remember, but I did quite enjoy what I've played of the Elder Scrolls series (only played three and four) and I still love the Final Fantasy games I've played (which isn't all that many)
And I loved Golden Sun/Golden Sun II HEAPS! :smallbiggrin:

Oh, and Chrono Trigger! Chrono Trigger is good. very good.

[snoopy13a]

I really like the Bioware RPGs such as:

Knights of the Old Republic

Neverwinter Nights

Mass Effect

I also like the Elder Scrolls. Morrowind was better then Oblivion in my opinion.

I like playing some of the final fanasty games but I'm not a huge fan. I like 7 and 9. Didn't care much for 8 and 10.

I also like the Shining Force games for the old Sega Genesis (now that's old school :smalltongue: )

[Recaiden]

Baldur's Gate Definitely the best.

Elder Scrolls Never played Daggerfall, but Arena(best atmosphere), Morrowind(just... the best), and Oblivion(best gameplay) are all amazing.

Final Fantasy FF VIII: Problems, still fun. FF X: More problems, still really fun. Others (excepting 4, 9, 11, 12) Very good games.

[Triaxx]

Yes, of course they are RPG's. Through sheer number of MacGuffin's if nothing else. His skills, and abilities, and health all grow over time. Yes, he's limited in his character development, but so are a number of your FF characters.

[Oregano]

Through sheer number of MacGuffin's if nothing else.
I don't think that Macguffin's are a qualifier for RPG, mainly because almost every game has Macguffins.


His skills, and abilities, and health all grow over time.
This, I can understand, this is a bit RPG style but you find the upgrades, rather than earning them, a bit iffy but understandable an RPG element.



Yes, he's limited in his character development, but so are a number of your FF characters.

I never brought up Character development, it's irrelevant really because there should be a significant amount in all games(and Link's the only person in LoZ that isn't developed significantly), also I think the FF series does a good job of development.

Sorry about that, back on topic now.

The Baldur's Gate series is good but I felt that it was harder to control than it could have been, as far as D&D games, I prefer Temple of Elemental Evil.

[Triaxx]

Link isn't developed so you can invest yourself more fully in the role. It gives you a chance to feel for the other characters, without Squall's constant depression tainting every conversation, or other characters equally annoying optimism.

Someone else that likes TOEE? I thought I was alone on the internet.

BG was one of those games that needed Auto-Pause to work properly. The eSeries scripts helped in BG2.

[doliest]

A good number of the above: FF, PS, KotOR, Fallout, Chrono Trigger.

But why had no one else mentioned The Witcher?:smallmad:



Because Yahtzee and Shamus are big names on the internet?

[Xenogears]

(Carth's probably the most unlikeable)

Carth was my favorite character. Personally the only character I didn't like was the Wookie. You could only learn about him by going to Kashyyk and you could never learn more after that. Annoyed me a lot.

Moving on. Breath of Fire is my favorite RPG series (especially 4 which is arguably my favorite RPG.... yes I argue with myself about what game is my favorite).

Final Fantasy is good but since X they have been almost unplayable.

KOTOR was awesome but the 2nd was not nearly as good.

Mario RPG's are incredible. (I've only played legend of the seven stars and Paper Mario.)

LoZ can be counted as an RPG because you RolePlay. The RP part of RPG. You take the role of a character and interact with the world (although it should give you the option to tell someone to go to hell).

Chrono series is good even though I can't get past the first disk in Chrono Cross because my copy is broken...

Tales series was really fun. I've only played Symphonia and Phantasia though.

Probably others that were really good too that I'm forgetting.

Oh and I would put Xenogears (hence my name) at the top of the list but unfortunately one game does not make a series. Technically Xenosaga was made by the same people (working for a different company though) and was supposedly a sort of unnoficial prequel but I didn't like those games very much and prefer to think of them as a seperate series that happens to sound alike and have a couple of similiar elements.

[Setra]

Suikoden, Dragon Quest, and Final Fantasy.

Also Shadow Hearts.

[FMArthur]

I would say that my favourite series is Phantasy Star, but I only really like PS4 and PSO, and I actually don't like any of the other games. Final Fantasy is the same deal: I've liked 3 so far, and disliked more.

So... Pokemon. Discounting spinoffs altogether, Pokemon has been my most consistently liked RPG series. Even though I really, really hate some parts of it, at its core a very fun game can be found.

[Cristo Meyers]

I would say Skies of Arcadia, but it isn't a series (and isn't without it's flaws *coughrandomencounterscough*. So I'd have to go with the Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross duology with the Tales series coming in second.

[UncleWolf]

Planescape: Torment

'Nuff said

[EvilElitest]

I know, Final Fantasy is probably my favourite RPG series, and I honestly believe they're great but I understand they have flaws.

The emphasis on graphics isn't that bad, it's gotten slightly worse since ten, but I liked VII and VIII and they had superb graphics for their time, I also thought that it didn't compromise the gameplay or story(although there was some bad design choices in them.

No Okami isn't an RPG! Neithers the Legend of Zelda!

well if we count FF as "role playing" then actually they are, they seem to have the same amount of options/creativity. FF VI was amazing, but after that its like they are trying their best to avoid creativity. I mean FF X? FF X two? FF XII at least tried but.....FFTA is still good i suppose

Baldur's gate and elder scrolls take the cake, along with planescrape Jade Empire and NWN
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EE

[Flying Elephant]

KOTOR 2 is my favorite game ever. While, yes, it does get rushed and confused at the end, it is the only game I felt I could actually roleplay a character I agreed with at all times. I never felt restrained by the dialog options, and the combat was fun. Making my character awesome through weapon and armor upgrades was also a big part of the fun, as well. The first one I also liked, though it didn't feel quite as... epic. I thought the storyline wasn't as good as the second one.
FFTA and FFTA2 are my 2nd favorites. I like being able to customize a bunch of different characters, and while the stories aren't great, fighting is fun.

[Kaihaku]

KOTOR 2 is my favorite game ever. While, yes, it does get rushed and confused at the end, it is the only game I felt I could actually roleplay a character I agreed with at all times. I never felt restrained by the dialog options, and the combat was fun. Making my character awesome through weapon and armor upgrades was also a big part of the fun, as well.

I wish they had been able to finish it the way they wanted. I hate it when games are rushed through production and published incomplete.

[DeathQuaker]

I wish they had been able to finish it the way they wanted. I hate it when games are rushed through production and published incomplete.

We can hope the fan restoration project gets finished.

My favorite RPG of all time is probably Torment. Props also to the BG series, KotOR 2, and NWN2: Mask of the Betrayer.

For JRPGs, the Suikoden series, hands down, and especially Suikoden V. Runner up: the Shadow Hearts series (apart from the obnoxious but admittedly optional dungeon towards the end of the third game).

[EvilElitest]

I wish they had been able to finish it the way they wanted. I hate it when games are rushed through production and published incomplete.

movies and books as well
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EE

[Shai'Hulud]

Since no one else is giving them credit I must. Diablo and Diablo II, they are only barely rpgs but both in their own right and by their influence on the field of computer game design they deserve to go on the list of greats.

[EvilElitest]

Since no one else is giving them credit I must. Diablo and Diablo II, they are only barely rpgs but both in their own right and by their influence on the field of computer game design they deserve to go on the list of greats.

considering many of the JRPGs, i think they actually are more role playing then some
from
EE

[Tengu_temp]

considering many of the JRPGs, i think they actually are more role playing then some
from
EE

You actually played the games you're talking about, or do you mean RPGs from the eighties?

[DeathQuaker]

considering many of the JRPGs, i think they actually are more role playing then some


Be fair: most JRPGs (particularly, those mentioned in this thread) are still way more story and character based than Diablo. Most consider story and character important aspects for RPGs, regardless of what part of the world they come from or whether the protagonist is a teenage boy with spiky hair :smallwink:.

That said, of course the Diablo series is a fine set of games. More action than RPG but the RPG elements it does have are quite good.

[Poru93]

Alright, to throw my two cents' worth in. Not really sure what my favorite one would be, but top 5 are:

Fable: No one has mentioned it yet, and I'm a little surprised. I thought it was a good game, good role playing, and it was also my first truly epic rpg, and firsts always hold a special place in my heart.

Skies of Arcadia: Never actually finished the game, though I have wanted to many times. I made a few mistakes early on and got destroyed towards the end. However, it was still a great game, though as said earlier the random encounters are annoying.

KOTOR: Both 1 and 2 were awesome. Not quite sure which is my favorite, but both were awesome games. Nothing else needs to be said.

Fire Emblem: Great games, I remember playing them on the old Gameboys, what great games... And the one for the GameCube is pretty good as well.

Guild Wars: Yeah, I know I'll get some flak for this one, but I thought that it was a great game. First major MMORPG that I ever played, and like I said before, firsts hold a special place in my heart.

[Setra]

Planescape: Torment

'Nuff said
Isn't that just one game?

[EvilElitest]

You actually played the games you're talking about, or do you mean RPGs from the eighties?

Why does everybody ask me this question. Yes i do, and i find them so bloody boring with a few exceptions that i regret the time spent on them entirely. Was there anything else or are we going to focus on fallacies? Unless we have a question that is actual relevant. Really Tengu, you know me, i thought we'd be over this


Be fair: most JRPGs (particularly, those mentioned in this thread) are still way more story and character based than Diablo. Most consider story and character important aspects for RPGs, regardless of what part of the world they come from or whether the protagonist is a teenage boy with spiky hair :smallwink:.

The thing is, i don't really think so. I mean, there are some (FF VI, ToS, ect and incidentally Fable) but most (FFX, FF VII, ect) are so shallow in both plots and character that you feel like your watching some corny hollywood films. I mean, most of them are like Eragon and Dominic Deegan in that they are A) Mostly relying on stealing stuff from other stories and rehashing it, characters exist as plot devices, and the world is nothing more than a staging ground for the very forced story. B) Tries to be original and bring about an appealing message, but has such bad delivery, forced lines/plot devices, inablity to think of new things, a total lack of understanding of the material/moral/story your trying to bring across and a general lackluster quality just makes it bad. Most FF games have no story or characterization that is actually worth paying attention to (i have not played FF 9) or when they do (FF XII) it is delivered so badly it isn't worth it

And as role playing games they fail as well, because it is so bloody linear. I mean, in FF X i have to put up with Tidus, despite his being a totally unappealing uninteresting character and the spawn of several generations of bad forced characterization. Its like how hollywood is so low on new ideas these days, its just a stale genre where good ideas take way to much effort.
I wouldn' mind FF's other massive flaws if i could have some control over how i form my character and compare this to say Torment where i actually can make a difference in my character's mannerism's
/off topic rant

Sorry, little harsh, i generally agree with you, just wanted to get that off my chest


That said, of course the Diablo series is a fine set of games. More action than RPG but the RPG elements it does have are quite good.

Certainly, By the standards of the best RPGs, like Baldur's gate and Torment its not that good, but by the apperent definition of RPGs generally it fits. Warcraft as well

Oh i hate Fable, so utterly linear and so predictable
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[Thant]

Fallout Series (Fallout 1, 2 , Tactics but not Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel or any other console heresy) definitely! These were made to last forever and there never was (and never will be) a crpg serial that can match or let alone beat them. E. V. E. R. Except maybe for Wasteland , which I consider not just spiritual but a real prequel to said games (but it's only one game, so it doesn't really count). I'm just sad that 2 games will never be part of Fallout series - real Fallout 3 (Black Isle Van Bur(d)en project) and Fallout: Tactics 2. I can only lament their fates:smallfrown:

p.s. - Also: I can't wait to get my hands on Fallout 3:smallbiggrin: but I must express my suspicion regarding that games quality (and I'm not thinking of game graphics/physics which really kick some serious @$$. I mean, did you see the gameplay preview? And the power fist?!?) and atmosphere/narrative value. Hope they didn't mess it up that much:smalltongue:

[hobbes543]

I'm playing through Fallout 1 right now and loving every second I spend in it.

Morrowind is another RPG I have fond memories of... Too bad Oblivion focused more on pretty graphics and less on things to do... (Morrowind had far more factions you could join)

[EvilElitest]

I'm playing through Fallout 1 right now and loving every second I spend in it.

Morrowind is another RPG I have fond memories of... Too bad Oblivion focused more on pretty graphics and less on things to do... (Morrowind had far more factions you could join)

oblivion wasn't as good certainly, but it never to be really bad. Never as good sadly. I will say i love the phyics engine through
from
EE

[DeathQuaker]

The thing is, i don't really think so. I mean, there are some (FF VI, ToS, ect and incidentally Fable) but most (FFX, FF VII, ect) are so shallow in both plots and character(snip)

And did you notice how among the favorite RPGs listed, FF was only one of few JRPGs listed (and I think only two of the.... 14 or so games were listed specifically)? What of Suikoden? Shadow Hearts? Chrono Trigger? How about Star Ocean?

Final Fantasy does not equal all JRPGs, not at all, and it's unfair to lump them all in with Final Fantasy. And many people who praise the series tend to praise specific games. And even if you don't like those stories--which is fine--it's clear a lot of those games at least show a lot of effort into the stories. Me, the Final Fantasy series is probably my least favorite JRPG series and I have a lot to complain about it, but even I have to admit it has its fun character moments (I really liked a lot of the banter in FFIX for example).

The only thing that unifies anything called an "RPG" is if it has "character sheets" and a leveling system and some kind of story to it. It can be as linear as Final Fantasy or as sandbox as Oblivion, or somewhere between like Baldur's Gate or Torment. You don't have to like all of those games, but it doesn't mean any of them get to qualify more as an RPG than any other.

Incidentally, I agree with you--I would certainly enjoy certain story-based games more if your actions had more consequences and you weren't constantly railroaded. I generally do prefer the Bioware/Black Isle/Obsidian model of RPGs best, but I still enjoy the other styles and find them equally valid games.

[EvilElitest]

And did you notice how among the favorite RPGs listed, FF was only one of few JRPGs listed (and I think only two of the.... 14 or so games were listed specifically)? What of Suikoden? Shadow Hearts? Chrono Trigger? How about Star Ocean?

Final Fantasy does not equal all JRPGs, not at all, and it's unfair to lump them all in with Final Fantasy. And many people who praise the series tend to praise specific games. And even if you don't like those stories--which is fine--it's clear a lot of those games at least show a lot of effort into the stories. Me, the Final Fantasy series is probably my least favorite JRPG series and I have a lot to complain about it, but even I have to admit it has its fun character moments (I really liked a lot of the banter in FFIX for example).

Final Fantasy is the quintessential example. Radiata stories, Kingdom heart, World ends with you, ect ect ect. As i said, not all JRPGs are bad, but the ones taht are used as the examples are, and are considered the best. Again, by their standards, we have a very lost standard for RPGs.

now not all JRPGS are bad, i love ToS and Fire Emblem, but they do fall for many of the same problems.


The only thing that unifies anything called an "RPG" is if it has "character sheets" and a leveling system and some kind of story to it. It can be as linear as Final Fantasy or as sandbox as Oblivion, or somewhere between like Baldur's Gate or Torment. You don't have to like all of those games, but it doesn't mean any of them get to qualify more as an RPG than any other.

Which isn't very good because there is very little characization



Incidentally, I agree with you--I would certainly enjoy certain story-based games more if your actions had more consequences and you weren't constantly railroaded. I generally do prefer the Bioware/Black Isle/Obsidian model of RPGs best, but I still enjoy the other styles and find them equally valid games.
Fair enough, through i'm not saying JRPGs aren't RPGS, just by their standards Diablo is actually quite good. sadly

and who else is looking forward to Bioware latest game
from
EE

[Reinboom]

Eye of the Beholder (I, and II. III is... ok. Nifty ideas but a lot of the game just fell through)

Lands of Lore, especially I and II

Bard's Tale

Baldur's Gate

KOTOR

seiken densetsu (notably, 2 and 3). (Holy Sword Legend. Most would recognize the english title of Secret of Mana for Seiken Densetsu 2)



I have a love/hate relationship with Final Fantasies. The games absolutely bore me to tears. They tend to be too easy and too repetitive. However, I still play FF1 for nostalgic reasons and to pass time, and I play FFVI because I did enjoy the setting and story - but also more for nostalgic reasons.

[hobbes543]

oblivion wasn't as good certainly, but it never to be really bad. Never as good sadly. I will say i love the phyics engine through
from
EE

I'm not claiming it was bad... But it lacked the part I loved about Morrowind most... And that was the over abundance of factions that you could join... Oblivion only had a small handful. Maybe the Oblivion expansions expand on this... I don't know since I don't have them.

[Kaihaku]

Final Fantasy is the quintessential example. Radiata stories, Kingdom heart, World ends with you, ect ect ect. As i said, not all JRPGs are bad, but the ones taht are used as the examples are, and are considered the best. Again, by their standards, we have a very lost standard for RPGs.

It's my impression that Final Fantasy is generally considered the best by people who haven't played a broad array of jRPGs.


now not all JRPGS are bad, i love ToS and Fire Emblem, but they do fall for many of the same problems.

Which isn't very good because there is very little characization

Characterization? Do you meaning fielding defined characters or do you mean allowing the player a diverse array of options to pursue? Are you railing against linear game design or poor character design? It's not very clear. Linear game design is certainly a weakness of many jRPGs, in my opinion poor character design is not.

[Oregano]

What, since when do Final Fantasy games rehash old stories? FFVII definately didn't, and the characters had personality and grew over the course of the game(especially Cloud who was a badass in the end), FFVIII seemed pretty original too and although some characters were annoying there was development(also maybe you're supposed to get annoyed with Squall always being depressed), Although FFIX was the closest to perhaps a classical story was quite original and so were the characters, it may have copied some things though. FFX was pretty original, especially with Tidus' story, FFXII(although it has a lot of parallels to Star Wars) was also original, so I don't where you get this from. The closest to rehashes are III and V, which people seem to like, and why does FFVI escape criticism?

They're also about as linear as most RPGs, they just don't give the illusion that they're not, plus there's plenty of side-mission stuff in the games, even if it's just those crazy minigames.

Fables an english game by the way, not a JRPG, and it's meant to be predictable and cliche, the only reason I didn't list it was it's not fair to praise the series yet as Fable 2 isn't out until the end of this month.

EE, would you not just play the same character in Planescape: Torment every time, someone with high mental stats? It's an illusion of freedom.

I also agree about Morrowind and Oblivion, they needed a lot more factions(and spears:smallannoyed:).

EDIT: I haven't played loads of JRPGs but FF is my favourite, I think I've played a moderate amount though.

[Setra]

It's my impression that Final Fantasy is generally considered the best by people who haven't played a broad array of jRPGs.

I've always considered Final Fantasy as more of a baseline for comparing other jrpgs.

Sure they can't compare to Suikoden or Shadow Hearts, but that doesn't mean they're bad.

[Oregano]

Never played either, Is Shadow Hearts the sequel to Koudelka(because I've played Koudelka). I saw Suikoden V for sale ages ago but I didn't have any money.:smallfrown:

So what about Eternal Sonata, is that bad or good?(I like it to be honest but I don't think it's as good as Final Fantasy).

[Setra]

Never played either, Is Shadow Hearts the sequel to Koudelka(because I've played Koudelka). I saw Suikoden V for sale ages ago but I didn't have any money.:smallfrown:

So what about Eternal Sonata, is that bad or good?(I like it to be honest but I don't think it's as good as Final Fantasy).
Yes, it is. However the gameplay is different (I've played a little Koudelka but shortly after purchasing it we moved and I lost it).

I have yet to play 5 but I can say 1 and 2 are great (Though my favorite is 4, but no one will agree, so I won't recommend it)

I haven't heard much about Eternal Sonata, nor I have I played it.. so I can't say much there..

[Tengu_temp]

EE - I stand by my opinion. If you think FF7 has a cliche and unoriginal story (especially in comparison to Diablo), it's because you either didn't really pay attention to it, didn't play it and are relying on other people's opinions, or are forgetting this game was the first which introduced most of its plot elements, and seems unoriginal solely because of the legion of parrots who came after it, copying almost everything.


It's my impression that Final Fantasy is generally considered the best by people who haven't played a broad array of jRPGs.


I played a lot of jRPG and still consider the trio of FF6, FF7 and FFT to be among the best of them, with the rest of FF games at least at a good/decent level.

[Holammer]

Fallout I & II
One of the most defining western RPGs to date. There are two more titles with "fallout" in the name but such heresy must be purged WITH FIRE!

Phantasy Star I,II,III & IV
A nice series for its time. The third game was poor but the every game after the fourth violates the legacy of the original series.
Also #2 made people cry ten years before FF7.

Baldur's Gate I & II
Miniature Space Hamster, it doesn't get any more awesome than that! Despite Poor pathing and less than stellar interpretation of the rules, all that was still overshadowed by awesome characters and plot.


I cringe at calling the Final Fantasy games a series as the games seldom had anything in common. Apart from spell name(s) and style. Many of them are still classics of course.
Similarly I hold the same opinion on Breath of Fire. While they are a bunch of awesome games, they feel even less consistent than Final Fantasy.

[Tengu_temp]

I cringe at calling the Final Fantasy games a series as the games seldom had anything in common. Apart from spell name(s) and style.

And monsters, airships, a guy named Cid, the plot usually concerning element-aligned macguffins and having ecological undertones, classes (in those games that use them)... games do not need to continue each other's stories to be considered a series.

Anyway, my favorite series are:
Fallout
Final Fantasy
Disgaea
Super Robot Wars

Planescape: Torment is not on the list because it's not a series. Baldur's Gate is not on the list because I enjoyed 2, but 1 not so much. Fire Emblem and the Tales series aren't on the list because I only played one game from each.

[Kaihaku]

I played a lot of jRPG and still consider the trio of FF6, FF7 and FFT to be among the best of them, with the rest of FF games at least at a good/decent level.

As a series I dislike it because it is a series of unrelated games...it's a bunch of brand stamped games. As individual games, as I said before, it has some great gems. I don't think the series is the best ever though.

I think anyone who plays a broader array of jRPGs will soon come across other games that are comparable or even, in my opinion, better than anything Final Fantasy has to offer. That doesn't mean that Final Fantasy games aren't good, it means that they aren't the best by default.

On another note, I don't consider the original Final Fantasy Tactics (which is a great game aside from how long it takes to end a battle) to really be a "Final Fantasy" game, it was made by the Tactics Ogre team and it resembles that series a great deal more. Though, if it does count so does Mystic Quest. :smallwink:

[SITB]

I advocate The Shin Megami Tensei series, despite only playing SMT: Nocturne and Perona 3, as being pretty fun (And in the case of the aforementioned Nocturne 'True Demon ending' indescribably awesome).

[Oregano]

Has anyone played Crimson Tears for the PS2? it's a capcom game(I think) sci-fi action, anime style cell shading. Kinda fun but repetitive.

[Burley]

Kingdom Hearts is my favorite RPG all-time series. Kingdom Hearts 2 especially. I rented KH1 when I worked a Blockbuster in my teen years. I bought it the day after I returned the game. Since then, I've been following the series pretty hard. I bought Chaing of Memories on release day, and KH2 I had pre-ordered on the pre-release day. KH2 is my favorite game hands-down-no-changing-my-mind-don't-even-try-chicken-cassarole-it's-sexy.

I also love Golden Sun. Mainly for the thrill of accidentily discovering new Djinn Class combos, and summoning freakish giga-beasts.

The World Ends With You is a great game, too. I thought I'd hate it, but the Pin system is quite great, especially when you're walking around the mall/metro station in Wi-Fi mode, leveling effortlessly. My only gripe is the few attack pins that make you shout into the microphone. I hate that the DS has games that make you make a fool of yourself.

FFTactics is great, too. Though, blasphemous as you may think. I do indeed prefer the "advanced" games more. FFT's leveling system just wasn't my cup o' tea. I didn't like that the fastest way for character A to learn an ability was to have character B kill an enemy in the class that character A wants to learn about. I'd have monks learning Archery moves, and Geomancers learning monk moves, and Archers learning Geomancy, but they all suck at their own classes!

I'm just gonna throw this out there: Okami and Zelda are RPGs, in the same way that Devil May Cry, Sly Cooper, and God of War are RPGs. Just because you don't gain XP and level on a set path, you still gain XP Equivalencies and you still have to possess certain skills or items to go from place X to dungeon Y. Action RPGs are still RPGs.

[theMycon]

My Favorites... Lunar series- it's got humor, the SegaCD version had an actually intelligent statement with clean plot & characters, it's challenging, and I grew up with it. Plus, there's legitimate character development, and Lucia introduced me to the concept of "the evil that's on your side." (And putting true love on the altar of trust & spitting on it.)

Breath of Fire- 2 to 4 are phenomenal games. The Original has a good-but-slow story, good music, and nothing else going for it. DQ has some unique subplots, and it's fun in that not transforming for every boss presents a challenge, but it is used to torture folks into wishing the series dead.

Suikoden- Somehow they can keep rehashing the same story and always keep it interesting. And, Luca Blight is one of the Evilest Bastards I have ever seen, I wanted him dead more than I've wanted anyone else to die in a long, long time, and I really felt accomplished when I'd killed him.

Fallout/wasteland/Arcanum- The system is just fun. Boss Suicide through diplomacy? Who could possibly not like that?


Similarly I hold the same opinion on Breath of Fire. While they are a bunch of awesome games, they feel even less consistent than Final Fantasy.
That's... odd. The first three were a direct sequels, in linear time, with a reasonably consistent setting (the desert grows a bit & smaller towns disappear, bigger kingdoms expand their influence), with a few characters overlapping and a consistent goal (You, as Shiva, show the player how their religion is a misinterpretation of Hindi & then slap their god(s) silly.) It's always struck me as at least as consistent as Suikoden, despite the arbitrarily large number of years between, instead of "about a generation."

Then IV came along and it got confusing (Does the world still work the same way? Prequel? Alternate universe?). Then came Dragon Quarter, and we either decided the game didn't exist, or admit it's there for masochists only.

[Oregano]

I enjoyed Dragon Quarter, not as much as BoF 2 but it was fun.

[Holammer]

That's... odd. The first three were a direct sequels, in linear time, with a reasonably consistent setting (the desert grows a bit & smaller towns disappear, bigger kingdoms expand their influence), with a few characters overlapping and a consistent goal (You, as Shiva, show the player how their religion is a misinterpretation of Hindi & then slap their god(s) silly.) It's always struck me as at least as consistent as Suikoden, despite the arbitrarily large number of years between, instead of "about a generation."

Then IV came along and it got confusing (Does the world still work the same way? Prequel? Alternate universe?). Then came Dragon Quarter, and we either decided the game didn't exist, or admit it's there for masochists only.

Hm, I never perceived them as a consistent world apart from the graphics in the first two games. The fact that each game had a new variation of Ryu and a new Nina with new art just strengthened that impression I guess (quick check on wiki does confirm that the BoF games take place in the same universe).
Good call with the Lunar series, I still have them on the todo list. Got the PS1 versions just yearning to be played.

[Oregano]

I have a Lunar game for the DS, it was 10 Euro so I got it, haven't played on it, Lunar: Genesis it is, any good?

[Kaihaku]

I have a Lunar game for the DS, it was 10 Euro so I got it, haven't played on it, Lunar: Genesis it is, any good?


o The Lunar series would make the list if it had more real sequels or if Dragonsong had been even half as good as Eternal Blue and Silver Star Story.

Silver Star Story and Eternal Blue are classics but Dragonsong/Genesis is absolutely terrible. :smallfrown:

[EvilElitest]

I'm not claiming it was bad... But it lacked the part I loved about Morrowind most... And that was the over abundance of factions that you could join... Oblivion only had a small handful. Maybe the Oblivion expansions expand on this... I don't know since I don't have them.

they do, but not quite enough to really make it fun, and most of it is rather awkward. Never enough to make it bad, but

It's my impression that Final Fantasy is generally considered the best by people who haven't played a broad array of jRPGs.

True, but they are used as a model by many JRPGs. The better JRPGs tend to be harder to find sadly, and most of them borrow really painful elements from FF/other bad JRPGs. So it makes finding ones that are equal to say, BG or even NWN somewhat hard, beacuse even the ones that do have good characters/story, which is somewhat uncommon (through same goes to WRPGs on taht one) but the sheer linarity and extremly boring game design makes it quite painful. Not entirely true, some can get around this flaw, but it is extremly annoying. Lost Odyssey is another example of this and Kingdom hearts has many of the same flaws
True, WRPGs aren't immune of this, as Fable proves



Characterization? Do you meaning fielding defined characters or do you mean allowing the player a diverse array of options to pursue? Are you railing against linear game design or poor character design? It's not very clear. Linear game design is certainly a weakness of many jRPGs, in my opinion poor character design is not.
Both. Linarity of course, but a lot of JRPGs other than FF tend to have really flat characters, which makes a game which otherwise could be quite good instead quite bad, Radidia stories is a good example of this.





What, since when do Final Fantasy games rehash old stories? FFVII definately didn't, and the characters had personality and grew over the course of the game(especially Cloud who was a badass in the end),
Not really. The characters were really really flat actually. FFVI was great, but FFVII seemed so shallow in compirson Cloud was simply uninteresting, and its been seen before, and done slightly betters. He is just not appealing because he lacks any depth besides artificial whining, he reminds me of some of Mookie's characters in teh way he is portrayed. Just uninteresting

And tengu, i have played FF VII, and yes i still hold by that opinion. It not as unoriginal back then as it would be considered now, but even then its unremarkable and lacks any real appeal. While never entering the realm of purely awful or unplayable, as FF X did, it simply lacks any real appeal once you get past all the wangst


FFVIII seemed pretty original too and although some characters were annoying there was development(also maybe you're supposed to get annoyed with Squall always being depressed), Although FFIX was the closest to perhaps a classical story was quite original and so were the characters, it may have copied some things though.
FFVIII wasn't really impressive, it just didn't really bring anything that interesting to the table. I admit to never playing number nine. 12 was actually quite interesting in plot and it had potiential to be an actually good game, but awful mechanics, extremly bad main character, heavy handed characterization, and badly handled plot really ruined what could have been a really good game. Oh and the doiloge oh gods


FFX was pretty original, especially with Tidus' story, FFXII(although it has a lot of parallels to Star Wars) was also original, so I don't where you get this from. The closest to rehashes are III and V, which people seem to like, and why does FFVI escape criticism?

FFX and FFXII are the worst of the lot. The latter is basically Charle's Angels/Mad Max. Ok, the comparasion isn't accurate, but it feels very much like a crappy sequels to a popular game, i mean Pain? Come one? Ten wasn't much better through, any orginiality/possibly interesting plot was destroyed by a totally unappealing main character (I was rooting for the abusive father, Tidus is painful to watch, in the same way Naruto is), heavy handed forced characterization,/story telling and again, extremly cliche in many areas with a few hints of originality.

FFVI wasn't perfect certainly, but it was able to have appealing main characters who didn't require me to act like a child to sympathize with, the plot actually understood the nature of presentation, the characters were more indepth, there was an actual sense of humor, not the type that you see on children's shows, and Kefka was amazing. Hell he took over the world, that is simply badass considering his personality. IT wasn't perfect, but the plot made it absolutely fantastic



They're also about as linear as most RPGs, they just don't give the illusion that they're not, plus there's plenty of side-mission stuff in the games, even if it's just those crazy minigames.

Which are about as engaging and non linear as Zelda's side quests, except one at least has more open mechanics.


Fables an english game by the way, not a JRPG, and it's meant to be predictable and cliche, the only reason I didn't list it was it's not fair to praise the series yet as Fable 2 isn't out until the end of this month.

I know, i just mentioned my dislike of it on another note. Its jsut a bad WRPG


EE, would you not just play the same character in Planescape: Torment every time, someone with high mental stats? It's an illusion of freedom.
So? Having high mental stats is not the only way to play Torment. Apart from having an extremly in depth plot that understands the value of presentation, it also gives you options on how to play your character. Being smart doesn't mean everything, the way the game is played is very much up to the player. Before i lost my copy, i played without killing a single person (well, just two but hey)


I also agree about Morrowind and Oblivion, they needed a lot more factions(and spears).

Yeah, Morrowind isn't perfect, and Oblivion is a fine game, but there could have been so much more. However talking in Oblivion was what annoyed me the most


I like FF tatics/Tatics advance/Tatics advanced two through
hey does anyone know where one can get Orge Battle? I played that when i was seven and loved it and i don't know weather one can get it for the Wii or not
from
EE

[Tengu_temp]

wangst


I'm sorry, but this is the major argument of people who haven't played FF7 or don't remember it very well - the game has very little actual angst, actually. Especially Cloud - he has an angsty period once, but everyone would in the same circumstances, and tries to act all cool otherwise (with various results). Well, and there's Advent Children, but we're talking the game here.

Note - I actually think you have played this game, regardless. Just something I wanted to say and now is the perfect opportunity to do so.

[EvilElitest]

I'm sorry, but this is the major argument of people who haven't played FF7 or don't remember it very well - the game has very little actual angst, actually. Especially Cloud - he has an angsty period once, but everyone would in the same circumstances, and tries to act all cool otherwise (with various results). Well, and there's Advent Children, but we're talking the game here.

AC was an abomination, but we don't talk about that. The thing is, hes angst feels weak and his attempts at being cool just come off as wansty. As i don't like angst that much either, he just isn't an appealing character, neather is Seph an appealing villain



Note - I actually think you have played this game, regardless. Just something I wanted to say and now is the perfect opportunity to do so.
Fair enough, it just felt artificial. Didn't i say i played it in the LInk vs. seph thread?
from
EE

[Griever]

Eh, not sure how this is turning into another FF argument, but here's my two cents on FFX:

Auron > All.

[UncleWolf]

Isn't that just one game?

It is too a series, it goes as the following:
Planescape: Torment Disc 1
Planescape: Torment Disc 2
Planescape: Torment Disc 3
and
Planescape: Torment Disc 4
:smalltongue:

[Smiley_]

Throwing this out there, cause I have nothing better to do at the moment.

The Earthbound/Mother series.

[theMycon]

Good call with the Lunar series, I still have them on the todo list. Got the PS1 versions just yearning to be played.

My recommendations: If you like them both, go ahead & be suckered in- buy the segaCD version of Eternal Blue. It is much, much harder, your characters can do much, much more, the writing's a bit better, and the graphics aren't too bad for a mid-90's game. However, most folk think the magic/save system is the spawn of satan. I, for one, loved it.

Do NOT buy The Silver Star unless the plot holes seriously bother you. It fixes them all & makes Ghaleon deeper & sensible... but is simply no fun whatsoever. Fortunately, it's also really short.

[DeathQuaker]

Suikoden- Somehow they can keep rehashing the same story and always keep it interesting.

Agree with you there. I think the thing is, the core plots are often the same--as are the themes (the power of friendship and the horrors of war), but they shake up some of the key villains and protagonists enough that you feel like you're doing something new.

I liked the first two games less because the silent protagonist was too "silent"... McDohl and CircletBoy (Riou) seem interchangeable almost and too defined by the people around them (Gremio, Nanami). But they were also shorter and older games.... there was less story going on (and even then, still very good story). Really liked 3 with the three very well developed protagonists. 3 also stands out dramatically because the one requisite teenage boy is much more feisty and fun than the previous, and both Chris and Geddoe are fairly unique heroes.... Chris is a fantastic heroine without being required to be a ball of jiggle and no clothing (we have Jeane for that after all :smallbiggrin:) and Geddoe... so rare to see an OLDER, experienced mercenary type as a HERO for a JRPG... yay. Wish I saw that more often.


4 and 5 went back to more slightly generic single protag but they still had a lot more backstory to them, especially the Prince, who I got a good feel for.

It also amazes me that each game has developed characters--at least some kind of unique personality tic and backstory if not more--for nearly all 108 every time... and even though some characters are repeated, relatively speaking, very few. Which is an amazing strong point for the series.


And, Luca Blight is one of the Evilest Bastards I have ever seen, I wanted him dead more than I've wanted anyone else to die in a long, long time, and I really felt accomplished when I'd killed him.

I agree, though oddly he has a lot of fans.

Not sure who my favorite villain is. Perhaps [spoiler for Suikoden III], though he's a little emo for my tastes. Or maybe [spoiler for Suikoden V], even if she's not the key villain--but very cool.

[EvilElitest]

I wonder what people's least favorite RPGS are?
from
EE

[Kaihaku]

I wonder what people's least favorite RPGS are?
from
EE

If a game, Lagoon. If a series, Final Fantasy because one too many rapid fanboys have attacked me.

[Kranden]

1# Fallout series, Amazingly good game full of dark humor and great gameplay, not to mention giving the player huge freedom.

2.# Final Fantasy You probably had no childhood if there wasn't at least ONE Final Fantasy that you loved. IV VI VII are the best ones. Sadly XI and XII are pretty lame and it seems the series may be heading to suck. Everything has gone downhill after Spirit within bankrupted them and they had to merge with enix (sorry but Dragon quest have never been that good) and blue dragon sucked.

3.# Chrono Trigger series for reasons I don't need to say because if you haven't played it I don't know why you are even on these forums!

[Oregano]

Not really. The characters were really really flat actually. FFVI was great, but FFVII seemed so shallow in compirson Cloud was simply uninteresting, and its been seen before, and done slightly betters. He is just not appealing because he lacks any depth besides artificial whining, he reminds me of some of Mookie's characters in teh way he is portrayed. Just uninteresting


I think this is simply a disagreement of opinions, I for one thought the characters were very well developed, I think the best so was Aerith(even so far as to Northern city place), all the characters grow, show weakness and come out stronger at the end, even the bonus characters have good development and there's only three character's that angst even a bit and for some reason they're my favourite characters, it's probably because they react how a human react instead of the standard hero "Oh whatever, lets carry on looking for gold"[/hyperbole]. Oh yes the three characters I'm on about are Cloud, Vincent and Nanaki. I agree about Seph not being very interesting, we needed more Rufus! When was the storyline done before, ever?



FFVIII wasn't really impressive, it just didn't really bring anything that interesting to the table.


Why do you think this? I thought some parts of the game were a bit slow but it had plenty of excitement(probably my favourite part of the game is on the president's train), and sure Squall can be a bit annoying but it's because he was separated from his sister and his actually forgetting about her, that must be painful and are you saying you've never met anyone that acts like Squall? did you like them?



I admit to never playing number nine. 12 was actually quite interesting in plot and it had potiential to be an actually good game, but awful mechanics, extremly bad main character, heavy handed characterization, and badly handled plot really ruined what could have been a really good game. Oh and the doiloge oh gods


Nine's a great classic style Final Fantasy game more reminiscent of IV that VII and VIII, you should play it. What made FFXII have the potential to be good, when none of the others were:smallconfused:, most of the characters had been done before or were just similar types of character, Basch should have been the main character though.



FFX and FFXII are the worst of the lot. The latter is basically Charle's Angels/Mad Max. Ok, the comparasion isn't accurate, but it feels very much like a crappy sequels to a popular game, i mean Pain? Come one? Ten wasn't much better through, any orginiality/possibly interesting plot was destroyed by a totally unappealing main character (I was rooting for the abusive father, Tidus is painful to watch, in the same way Naruto is), heavy handed forced characterization,/story telling and again, extremly cliche in many areas with a few hints of originality.


X-2 was made as a response to complaints that the previous FFs had been too dark and edgy, so they made it cheerful and fun, it didn't work for a lot of people though, they wanted dark and edgy but at the same time they didn't. Tidus is not as annoying as Naruto, but he can be annpying at times, I agree with whoever said Auron > all(but I hated him in Kingdom Hearts 2). It did use some tropes that have been used in other JRPGs, most obvious one is the whole church thing and Breath of Fire 2(to me anyway).



FFVI wasn't perfect certainly, but it was able to have appealing main characters who didn't require me to act like a child to sympathize with, the plot actually understood the nature of presentation, the characters were more indepth, there was an actual sense of humor, not the type that you see on children's shows, and Kefka was amazing. Hell he took over the world, that is simply badass considering his personality. IT wasn't perfect, but the plot made it absolutely fantastic.


See I never understood the amount of praise FFVI gets, it's a great game but the characters aren't that good, Kefka is indeed amazing and I didn't see much sense of humour in it:smallconfused:, also there's humour in nearly every FF, in fact FFVII had quite a bit of dark humour especially when Don Corneo was involved.



Which are about as engaging and non linear as Zelda's side quests, except one at least has more open mechanics.


Open mechanics? doesn't Zelda just have typical action/adventure mechanics? but I don't know what you're arguing here.



So? Having high mental stats is not the only way to play Torment. Apart from having an extremly in depth plot that understands the value of presentation, it also gives you options on how to play your character. Being smart doesn't mean everything, the way the game is played is very much up to the player. Before i lost my copy, i played without killing a single person (well, just two but hey).

And that can only be done with high mental stats and choosing the correct speech option and it seems that's what everyone does, mainly because combat sucks on Planescape.

Sorry about derailing the thread, do you want us to start our own Kaihaku? sorry if your name's spelt wrong.

[Kranden]

FFX and FFXII are the worst of the lot. The latter is basically Charle's Angels/Mad Max. Ok, the comparasion isn't accurate, but it feels very much like a crappy sequels to a popular game, i mean Pain? Come one? Ten wasn't much better through, any orginiality/possibly interesting plot was destroyed by a totally unappealing main character (I was rooting for the abusive father, Tidus is painful to watch, in the same way Naruto is), heavy handed forced characterization,/story telling and again, extremly cliche in many areas with a few hints of originality.
EE

I think X biggest weakness was horrible voice acting. I mean remember the scene where Yuna and Tidus were laughing on that ledge? I wanted to shoot myself right there. The story wasn't too shabby but I think it had one of the best combat systems in any Final fantasy, The idea of being able to use your entire party by switching people out was very fun. But yea Tidus was pretty annoying but Auron had to be one of my favorite FF characters.

Its best to pretend FFXII never happened imo, it wasn't a final fantasy game imo. Ontop of that Ivalice is THE worst FF world ever. I mean taking a world based off the GBA game which had fun combat (but a painfully lame storyline)

[Texas Jedi]

I wonder what people's least favorite RPGS are?
from
EE

My least favorite RPG was Golden Sun 1 and 2. Don't get me wrong it was a good game with a great idea. I just didn't like all of the talking. My finger went numb just hitting the A button over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. That was the only thing that made me dislike the game though.

FFVII is another one. I really wanted to like that game and I forced myself to play thru it. I hated ever single character in the game, except Cid. Cid was the only character that actually seemed to have any depth.

Icewind Dale 2 was not among my favorite because the first one had such a good story to it. The second seemed very shallow in comparison.

Kingdom Hearts, I just lost interest in it and never could get into any part of the story.

[Egiam]

My all time favorite RPG is the Knights of the Old Republic. It had a great plot and game play. The second one, while toting better graphics and gameplay, didn't have the same since of "epic'ness" and felt as if I didn't have any control of what happened. Also you don't feel important in the Kotor 2.
As Elan would say, the plot on the first one is a "DuhDuh Daaaaaa!" kind of plot while 2 had a "Duh, Duh dun". Not that you supposed to understand that.:smallbiggrin:

[Tengu_temp]

I wonder what people's least favorite RPGS are?
from
EE

Let me quote myself from a year ago:


Knights of Xentar is probably close. A badly-drawn anime image of naked boobs once per roughly 15 minutes disguised as a jRPG, which looks, sounds and plays much, much worse than Final Fantasy 4 despite being released in 1995.

[Oslecamo]

Let me quote myself from a year ago:

At least it had boobs!

Try out Holy magic centuries:

1-No equipment.
2-No comerce system.
3-Only one playable character, who doesn't say anything or changes in any way during the game, besides gaining more stats and new spells.
4-Dungeons so freaking long you would take hours to pass them, even if there weren't random ecounters in the middle. And it isn't because they're full of diferent labyrhintic passagages. It's just because they're so freaking big!
5-No puzzles. Of any kind. Or mini games or anything to do but walking, opening chests, doors and fighting.
6-Cheapest story ever. Magic book was stolen. Go beat up monsters all the way untill you get to the guy who did it.

The only redeeming qualities were a somewhat interesting hybrid combat system and cool graphics. For the era.

[DeathQuaker]

I'm not going to name my least favorite game because I refuse to contribute to the obnoxious thread derailing in progress. Instead, my second favorite is Temple of Elemental Evil. God, that game was painful. One of the few RPGs I never actually finished.

Which is still isn't a series. I don't think there is a whole SERIES I dislike. Installments, yes, whole series, no.

Oh, and for series LIKED.... wanna go oldskool? Really liked the "Savage Frontier" gold box series.

[GryffonDurime]

At least it had boobs!

Try out Holy magic centuries

I liked Quest 64, but more as a blank slate unto which I projected a more glorious form. Such potential...


...Where was I? Right.

Mother - 1, 2, and 3; known by and large in the states for the release of Mother 2 as Earthbound. I finally broke down and played 3 with a translation guide on hand all the while, and it was beautiful. Possibly the best game I've played in years.

[Setra]

Oh, I just remembered.

The Mana series.

[Jenx]

Hah. I cringe when calling Final Fantasy RPGs, not just a series.

Personally, I am not a big fan of the Japanese ones. My personal faves have already been posted here: Fallout 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate 2+ToB (I didn't really get into the first one. No idea why), Planescape: Torment (which story wise beats all previous ones (well, BG2 only by an inch, but still)), hell I even like the Icewind Dale series, since it's not story or dialog heavy and just lets you run around slaughtering armies of bad guys. Also I really enjoyed Arcanum most because I haven't encountered that many steampunk computer RPGs and it had the charm the old Fallout games had (including as many, if not more, bugs too.)

[Tengu_temp]

I think that, when I have some free time and nothing better to do, I'll list all the RPGs mentioned in this thread that are not a part of any series, as a testament to human lack of reading comprehension.

[Atreyu the Masked LLama]

Hmmm... how many games make a series? Is it fair to lump Planescape into the Baldur's Gate series? They are very similar. Can Earthbound be considered a series? It has three games, but only released in the U.S.

Who do people tend to stick random letters in front of RPG?

These are many questions this thread has raised, but no answers exist.

[Oregano]

I don't think they're really RPGs(well except maybe the new one) but the Harvest Moon series kicks ass.

I only got reminded of that fact today.

[Triaxx]

Its best to pretend FFXII never happened imo, it wasn't a final fantasy game imo. Ontop of that Ivalice is THE worst FF world ever. I mean taking a world based off the GBA game which had fun combat (but a painfully lame storyline)

Two points: Do you mean FF12? Or 10-2? It's helpful to make that clear.

Ivalice was, or at least should be based off of Final Fantasy Tactics, which was completely awesome and not the gut-wrenchingly stupid 'excrement'-fest that was the GBA knock-off's.

---

Least favorite? The Chrono series, not only because they were as stupidly over-hyped as FF7, but because the games were not fun, period.

[Oregano]

They mean X-2, Ivalice is ridiculious, I personally liked the fact that the world's were different in every game, because I could explore new and exciting locations without asspulls("It's a different region of the world" seems to be the most common).

[Setra]

They mean X-2, Ivalice is ridiculious, I personally liked the fact that the world's were different in every game, because I could explore new and exciting locations without asspulls("It's a different region of the world" seems to be the most common).

Huh?

But X-2 had nothing to do with Ivalice, it was set in Spira...

On a related note I disliked FFXII but I like X-2.

[Oregano]

Oh I know but people were talking about Ivalice as well, I probably should have used a full stop instead of a comma or something.

I liked X-2 more than XII although it wasn't as good as X or earlier games.

[Kaihaku]

I think that, when I have some free time and nothing better to do, I'll list all the RPGs mentioned in this thread that are not a part of any series, as a testament to human lack of reading comprehension.

This will not be quite accurate, it was a mess to sort through and one of the posters was on my ignore list so I don't know what they said (which is probably for the best). :smallwink: A fair number, but not all, of the non-series were accompanied by a disclaimer acknowledging that they weren't series. Yeah, definitely not all. I didn't bother sorting half-likes from full-likes or whatever. If you mentioned the game positively, it's here.

Also, I'm the only Ultima fan. :smalleek:

Eye of the Beholder
I
Jade Empire
I
The World Ends With You
I
Tactics Ogre
I
Lands of Lore
I
Bard's Tale
I
Savage Frontier
I
Nippon Ichi
I
Geneforge, Exile, Avernum
I
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl
I
The Witcher?
I
Mass Effect
I
Diablo
I
Lodoss Wars
I
Disgaea
I
Ultima
I
Super Robot Wars
I
Xeno
I
Guild Wars
I
Icewind Dale
I
Fable
I
Legend of Zelda?
II
Earthbound/Mother
II
Shadow Hearts
II
Pokemon
II
Skies of Arcadia
II
Kingdom Hearts
II
Shin Megami Tensei
II
Might and Magic
II
Dungeon Siege
II
Shining Force
II
Arcanum
III
Suikoden
III
Seiken Densetsu / The Mana series
III
Lunar
III
Golden Sun
III
Final Fantasy Tactics
IIII
Dragon Warrior/Quest
IIII
Tales
IIII
Breath of Fire
IIIII
Mario RPGs
IIIII
Neverwinter Nights
IIIII
Planescape: Torment
IIIII
Phantasy Star
IIIIII
Chrono
IIIIIII
Elder Scrolls
IIIIIII
Fire Emblem
IIIIIIII
KOTOR
IIIIIIIIIII
Baldur's Gate
IIIIIIIIIIII
Fallout
IIIIIIIIIIII
Final Fantasy
IIIIIIIIIIIII

Someone else can actually bother to point out which are series and which are not. :smallwink:


I might have Dragon Quest here, but I never actually managed to beat IV. Chrono Trigger was awesome, but two games and a re-release aren't exactly enough for a series, per se.

Yet, you listed Golden Sun.


LoZ can be counted as an RPG because you RolePlay. The RP part of RPG. You take the role of a character and interact with the world (although it should give you the option to tell someone to go to hell).

By that definition Mario Sunshine (NGC), Ninja Gaiden (X-box), and Skate or Die (NES) would all be RPGs.


I'm just gonna throw this out there: Okami and Zelda are RPGs, in the same way that Devil May Cry, Sly Cooper, and God of War are RPGs. Just because you don't gain XP and level on a set path, you still gain XP Equivalencies and you still have to possess certain skills or items to go from place X to dungeon Y. Action RPGs are still RPGs.

I've had the misfortune of watching my younger brother play through God of War. Please, I'm asking you as a human being, never call that game an RPG again in my presence. Please. I've never played or seen anyone play Devil May Cry or Sly Cooper...so you might have a point there. Since there isn't really a definition of what an RPG is, not a clear one in any case, I'm inclined to be leniant with games like Okami or Zelda, but...God of War? :smallfrown:


Hmmm... how many games make a series? Is it fair to lump Planescape into the Baldur's Gate series?

Not unless you lump all of the Dungeons and Dragons video games together into a single series.


They are very similar. Can Earthbound be considered a series? It has three games, but only released in the U.S.

Japan, to the great sorrow of many of my friends. Personally, I'm a Star Tropics fan so I was never able to get over hating the main character of Earthbound as a rip-off enough too actually play it.


Who do people tend to stick random letters in front of RPG?

jRPG = Japanese RPG
TRPG = Tactical RPG
CRPG = No idea.

[Jenx]

CRPG means a Computer Roleplaying Game. It's any RPG that's released on a PC.

And cry me a river - I read the thread, but just listing series and having to skip individual games like Torment is not really fair.

[Setra]

LoZ can be counted as an RPG because you RolePlay. The RP part of RPG. You take the role of a character and interact with the world (although it should give you the option to tell someone to go to hell).
So by that...

Halo is an RPG because you take the ROLE of Master Chief

Metroid is an RPG, you take the role of Samus

Metal Gear Solid, you take the role of Snake

And so on.

Playing a role does not an RPG make.

I believe Roleplaying meant actually playing the role (ie. D&D) originally, but eventually was corrupted to mean anything with any remotely D&D style battle system was an RPG, so while the Tin Says Roleplaying, it really means "Has Stat System".

Legend of Zelda has no Stat System. It has a Health Meter at best but so do First Person Shooters...

[Cespenar]

Having a stat system doesn't suffice by itself, I believe. Games like Jagged Alliance 2 or Fallout Tactics have stat systems too, but they are tactical strategy games. Having a stat system, and having optional dialogues, perhaps, might make it.

[Reinboom]

Fallout Tactics is considered an RPG, or more specifically, a tactics rpg.

Most zelda games are considered action adventure, not RPGs.


Also, the permanent enhancement of the character itself in a fantastic way (fantastic, as in, groundless/imaginary/arbitrary - heart containers will do) is a major signification to a CRPG, I believe. This is something that most FPSes don't do.
This is, however, something that GTA: San Andreas does do, and for how that game is worked out, I would call it an "RPG in a modern world".

[Shikton]

Greatest of all time: Suikoden.
This series just keeps me glued to the screen for hours on end, and I'm going to encourage everyone who's into jRPG and haven't played these games to pick them up. They're guaranteed to give you heaps of fun. Sure, the basic storyline is pretty much the same in all the games, but the way the story is told differs in them all. I've never felt so attached to the characters in any other game, and I can't wait for Suikoden 6 to come out. Actually, I'm probably buying a Nintendo DS just to buy the Suikoden game coming out for that :smalltongue:

Second place: Baldur's Gate (or the entire Infinity Engine family)
What can I say? They rock. Great story, replayable, spells, fun combat and so on. I crank these suckers up at least once a year to give them another playthrough. The Baldur's Gate series gets second place for me, and if I could, I would add the rest of the Infinity Engine based games here too.

Yeah, these are my favourites. I'll add in Xenogears/Xenosaga as well, and the Breath of Fire series. Yup.:smallcool:

[Child Conscript]

My Personal Favorite:
Fable

Love this series and am just waiting for fable 2 to come out (by amusing myself with CoD4 :smallbiggrin:)

[Cespenar]

Fallout Tactics is considered an RPG, or more specifically, a tactics rpg.

Do you mean people consider it a RPG, or do you agree as well?

I think Fallout Tactics is only a RPG as Diablo II, for example. Which both are not, but have "RPG elements" in them.

[Setra]

Do you mean people consider it a RPG, or do you agree as well?

I think Fallout Tactics is only a RPG as Diablo II, for example. Which both are not, but have "RPG elements" in them.
Presuming Fallout Tactics plays similarly to "Final Fantasy Tactics" and "Suikoden Tactics" and [Insert Tactics Game Here] it would fall into the "Tactics Genre" (Is that the actual name for it?) which is basically Turn Based Strategy combined with RPG

Edit: Okay according to Wikipedia the genre is "Tactical RPG" (TRPG) AKA "Strategy RPG" (SRPG), and it does list Fallout Tactics as one...

[Cubey]

Eye of the Beholder
I
Jade Empire
I
The World Ends With You
I
Tactics Ogre
I
Lands of Lore
I
Bard's Tale
I
Savage Frontier
I
Nippon Ichi
I
Geneforge, Exile, Avernum
I
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl
I
The Witcher?
I
Mass Effect
I
Diablo
I
Lodoss Wars
I
Disgaea
I
Ultima
I
Super Robot Wars
I
Xeno
I
Guild Wars
I
Icewind Dale
I
Fable
I
Legend of Zelda?
II
Earthbound/Mother
II
Shadow Hearts
II
Pokemon
II
Skies of Arcadia
II
Kingdom Hearts
II
Shin Megami Tensei
II
Might and Magic
II
Dungeon Siege
II
Shining Force
II
Arcanum
III
Suikoden
III
Seiken Densetsu / The Mana series
III
Lunar
III
Golden Sun
III
Final Fantasy Tactics
IIII
Dragon Warrior/Quest
IIII
Tales
IIII
Breath of Fire
IIIII
Mario RPGs
IIIII
Neverwinter Nights
IIIII
Planescape: Torment
IIIII
Phantasy Star
IIIIII
Chrono
IIIIIII
Elder Scrolls
IIIIIII
Fire Emblem
IIIIIIII
KOTOR
IIIIIIIIIII
Baldur's Gate
IIIIIIIIIIII
Fallout
IIIIIIIIIIII
Final Fantasy
IIIIIIIIIIIII

Wouldn't the various Disgaeas count as Nippon Ichi games? Seeing as... they were made by Nippon Ichi. Supposedly.

[Kaihaku]

Wouldn't the various Disgaeas count as Nippon Ichi games? Seeing as... they were made by Nippon Ichi. Supposedly.

Probably, I have no idea as I have no idea what an Nippon Ichi is. Sounds kind of kinky though. :smalleek:

[Cubey]

It means "Japan's Number One". But Nippon Ichi games have slight elements of kink. Sometimes.

[Setra]

Probably, I have no idea as I have no idea what an Nippon Ichi is. Sounds kind of kinky though. :smalleek:
Ichi means One
Ecchi means perverted

>.> Could be why it sounds kinky.

Either way, wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Ichi)

[Kaihaku]

Ichi means One
Ecchi means perverted

>.> Could be why it sounds kinky.

Either way, wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nippon_Ichi)

I was being facetious. :smallwink: I've heard of the Nippon Ichi but never played any of it. Anime-style pre-teen demon girls just don't have the pull for me that they do for others. That was me being facetious again. :smallwink:

[Castaras]

<.< Nobody else likes Might and Magic then. This saddens me.

Is Final Fantasy actually that good? Never got the impression that any of the series were that great...>.> Although, I've never played any of them, so can't comment.

[Kaihaku]

<.< Nobody else likes Might and Magic then. This saddens me.

I thought there was someone else. Maybe I missed someone, I've gotten a chance to play it so... :smallfrown:


Is Final Fantasy actually that good? Never got the impression that any of the series were that great...>.> Although, I've never played any of them, so can't comment.

It's not a bad series but it inspires the worst sort of fanboyism/fangirlism.

[Oregano]

It really depends who you ask, personally I think the majority of the games are excellent, there are some lacklustre titles but as a whole the series is really good.

Of course I think Final Fantasy suffers from an Unpleasable Fanbase and "it's popular, now it sucks", I only think the second one applies after reading all the praise for VI and the complaints against VII when both were of about equal quality.

EDIT:
It's not a bad series but it inspires the worst sort of fanboyism/fangirlism.
This can be said for a lot of series and characters, in fact there are many examples that are worse than Final Fantasy.

[Kaihaku]

Of course I think Final Fantasy suffers from an Unpleasable Fanbase and "it's popular, now it sucks", I only think the second one applies after reading all the praise for VI and the complaints against VII when both were of about equal quality.

I rather enjoyed Final Fantasy for a long while; I mean the original was the first RPG I owned and beat. But then the "PSX generation" caught onto Final Fantasy VII and started bashing everything else. :smallwink: Truth is, I rather liked VII as well aside from its fanbase (Cloud was a surprisingly deep character for someone who carts around a giant sword) but this newer stuff isn't quite my style.


EDIT: This can be said for a lot of series and characters, in fact there are many examples that are worse than Final Fantasy.

Dragonball Z is the only series I can think of with a fanbase of comparable ferocity and size.

[Oregano]

Actually there are a lot, I could probably name a lot, hell look around the forums, you'll come to notice that some things are not to be naysayed and are very popular, actually compared to some things the Final Fantasy following on this forum is relatively small and you're more likely to see someone saying how bad it is. I don't know if this applies universally, but it's a big sample.

[Kaihaku]

Actually there are a lot, I could probably name a lot, hell look around the forums, you'll come to notice that some things are not to be naysayed and are very popular, actually compared to some things the Final Fantasy following on this forum is relatively small and you're more likely to see someone saying how bad it is. I don't know if this applies universally, but it's a big sample.

I'm new to these forums so you'll have to forgive me for taking a broader perspective. Go to Google, type in "Final Fantasy", you'll get 73,600,000 results. Type in "Dungeons and Dragons", you'll get 4,440,000 results. Final Fantasy may not be the most popular RPG series on this particular forum (though in this thread it is by one :smallwink:) but among the broader population it is certainly extremely popular.

[Oregano]

I'm new to these forums so you'll have to forgive me for taking a broader perspective. Go to Google, type in "Final Fantasy", you'll get 73,600,000 results. Type in "Dungeons and Dragons", you'll get 4,440,000 results. Final Fantasy may not be the most popular RPG series on this particular forum (though in this thread it is by one :smallwink:) but among the broader population it is certainly extremely popular.

How many of those do you think are "Final Fantasy sucks" or "Final Fantasy VII sucks" or "What's with all the Final Fantasy? it sucks". That's all hyperbole by the way but my point is, I've never noticed it to be as popular or fanboy rage inducing as many people claim, most people where I live have either never heard of it or hate it as well.

[Cespenar]

<.< Nobody else likes Might and Magic then. This saddens me.

M&M 6 was pretty much what brought me into the CRPG world, but sadly, the series is said to go downhill after the eighth game, which was where I dropped it as well. Though I enjoyed them very much, I can't say they are better than, say, Baldur's Gate II, Planescape or Fallout, which were very well written. Though it sure deserves a nod.

[Drascin]

I was being facetious. :smallwink: I've heard of the Nippon Ichi but never played any of it. Anime-style pre-teen demon girls just don't have the pull for me that they do for others. That was me being facetious again. :smallwink:

Either way, the point are not the pre-teen demon girls. The point are the usually great combat systems, enjoying the jokes, the absolute lack of fourth wall (seriously, as far as I know the character in the third Disgaea game has "Hero" as his class title because he beat up the actual hero and put it into his character sheet himself. He reasons that being the Hero should give him advantage against his Overlord father. He's right), the customizability of almost everything, getting your characters' levels over nine thousand...

And Badass Freakin' Overlord Zetta (yes, that's his actual title). And Love Freak Flonne. And Yukimaru, zam. And CAPTAIN GORDON, DEFENDER OF EARTH!. And... well, let's just say "and the awesome characters" and leave it at that, 'cause it will be shorter.

Aaanyway. My favorite RPG sagas?

- Disgaea in particular, and most stuff made by Nippon Ichi in general. In case it wasn't already obvious.
- Fire Emblem. Me likey TRPGs. Mad difficult at times, too.
- Final Fantasy. Despite Final Fantasy X, it's a good saga on the whole. I wholly forgive it for Mystic Quest, FFIII and FFX, since it gave us Final Fantasy Tactics, which is all shades of awesome.
- Tales Saga. I happen to like Action-RPGs a lot, because I'm impatient. Tales games are one of the best examples on the market.
- Kingdom Hearts: See Tales comments, plus add Mickey Mouse being totally badass.
- Valkyrie saga. Only two games, but both awesome, make a nice promedium.
- Pokemon. Yeah, yeah, kiddy, whatever. Pokemon's good, addicting, and deeper than people give it credit for.
- Mario RPGs: RPGs are good. RPGs that make fun of RPGs are better. RPGs that make fun of RPGs and have great dialogue and entertaining combats are great.

[Kaihaku]

I've never noticed it to be as popular or fanboy rage inducing as many people claim, most people where I live have either never heard of it or hate it as well.

*shrug* It could possibly be more of an American thing. I won't deny your experience but I also don't deny my own which was that I enjoyed the series (still do really) save that people began rabidly attacking other's opinions in its name after FFVII. To a lesser extent, a new generation of Zelda fans did the same with Ocarina of Time and there was the afore mentioned DBZ frenzy.

[Oregano]

that people began rabidly attacking

This is the only place our opinions/experiences are different to be honest, I've seen some strong opinions about the series(some good, some bad) but I've rarely seen people that like it force their opinions on others(of course I'm fairly young so I'm more used to seeing people insult the series and the fans defend it, this might be because of the fanboyism that came before).

[Jenx]

On the Tactics subject - I personally like to think of it as a tactical game with RPG elements in it.

In my opinion, a computer game would be considered an RPG if it has these elements in it:
1. Character creation - The game should allow you to create any sort of character, being limited only by the technical sides of it being a computer game (personally this, and the second point, is where most jRPGs I've played/seen fail, since they give you some pre-generated idiot and force you to stick with him)
2. Character development - The character you already created should be able to progress through levels, skills and so on, where the player should be allowed to decide the way the character should grow.
3. Dialogue options - Conversations with NPCs should have at least several different approaches. You should be able to decide what your character says.
4. Balance - The game should have a balanced combination of fights and dialogs/quests/problem solving. Tilting into one direction too much results in either a hack'n'slash or an adventure game (the term I prefer to call jRPGs. Come to think of it Planescape:Torment is all in all just an adventure game stuck in a D&D world)
5. Story - the game should have an, at least, reasonable story to hold all of it together (this is usually where most jRPGs seem to excel. Most adventure games too.)
6. Impact - The character's decisions and actions should have an impact on the story and the world around him.

Of course, pen and paper RPGs vary in all directions - some are more combat heavy, some are made to be used for puzzle/investigation games. Some have several dozen books of rules, some have a pamphlet. But I think a computer game should cover at least 5 of the 6 points I've made for me to consider it a RPG. (For that reason, roguelikes are...well, roguelikes, not just RPGs)

[Cubey]

By these criteria, Betrayal at Krondor is not an RPG. You can't create your own characters, being stuck with "pre-generated idiots", and aside from rare cases of answering yes/no, you can't influence the dialogue. You have precious little influence in how characters improve themselves as well - less than in FF VIII, to say nothing of Disgaea or Final Fantasy Tactics.

[Reinboom]

<.< Nobody else likes Might and Magic then. This saddens me.

Is Final Fantasy actually that good? Never got the impression that any of the series were that great...>.> Although, I've never played any of them, so can't comment.

Ah thanks!
Add Might and Magic (notably, 2 through 6) for me. :smalltongue:

Also, other CRPG series to add that I favor heavily:
Ancients
Mordor (Notably, the depths of dejenol and hopefully mordor XP soon)

[Smiley_]

Japan, to the great sorrow of many of my friends. Personally, I'm a Star Tropics fan so I was never able to get over hating the main character of Earthbound as a rip-off enough too actually play it.


*sigh* I did some research. Star Tropics was released, as I recall, in December of 1990 for the Nintendo Entertainment System.

Mother was released first for the Fami-Com in July of 1989.

If anything, the Ness from earthbound is only "ripped off" from the original Mother game hero Ninten, who uses similar items, psychic powers, and even looks somewhat the same.


Also, as for Might and Magic, I enjoyed 6,7, and to an extent 8. MM6 was one of those games that you needed to know what you were doing, and it drove me up the wall when I first played it (of course, I was young and impatient then). 7 was, in my opinion, well thought out and implemented and most importantly, fun.

[Kaihaku]

*sigh* I did some research. Star Tropics was released, as I recall, in December of 1990 for the Nintendo Entertainment System.

Mother was released first for the Fami-Com in July of 1989.

If anything, the Ness from earthbound is only "ripped off" from the original Mother game hero Ninten, who uses similar items, psychic powers, and even looks somewhat the same.

Old prejudices die hard.

[Smiley_]

Old prejudices die hard.

Fair 'nuff. Now, If I can get my hands on a copy of Star Tropics...

[Xenogears]

Old prejudices die hard.

I've got old prejudices against Star Tropics. Great game. Unfortunately there was that one part where you needed to get a secret code and it told you to dip the note from your uncle into water. I could never figure out what to do. About ten years later I finally looked it up and found out that you needed to dip the copy of your uncles note that came with the game. First off, who would think of doing that? Secondly, even if you did think of that would you risk ruining it to test the theory? Thirdly, I got the game second hand so I didn't even have the damned thing. So despite enjoying the game I will forever hate this one aspect of it with a fiery passion.

[Jenx]

By these criteria, Betrayal at Krondor is not an RPG. You can't create your own characters, being stuck with "pre-generated idiots", and aside from rare cases of answering yes/no, you can't influence the dialogue. You have precious little influence in how characters improve themselves as well - less than in FF VIII, to say nothing of Disgaea or Final Fantasy Tactics.

I already wrote it - than it's not a RPG, but an adventure game. Disgaea and FF Tactics are....well, tactical games. (although how much actual tactics there is in FFT is another topic, but it's still better then the usual system of each parties sitting on each side of the screen, and just standing there until it's someone's turn)

[Kaihaku]

I've got old prejudices against Star Tropics. Great game. Unfortunately there was that one part where you needed to get a secret code and it told you to dip the note from your uncle into water. I could never figure out what to do. About ten years later I finally looked it up and found out that you needed to dip the copy of your uncles note that came with the game. First off, who would think of doing that?

The manual clues you in as I remember. :smallwink:


Secondly, even if you did think of that would you risk ruining it to test the theory? Thirdly, I got the game second hand so I didn't even have the damned thing. So despite enjoying the game I will forever hate this one aspect of it with a fiery passion.

There were quite a few old games, well mostly computer games, that did that sort of thing. It's one of those cool sounding ideas but not so good when you actually try it. I know a lot of second-hand players got stuck there because they didn't get the note and manual.

[Xenogears]

It's really too bad I got stuck there. I quite enjoyed the game and would probably like it a lot more now if I had been able to play through it.

[Kaihaku]

It's really too bad I got stuck there. I quite enjoyed the game and would probably like it a lot more now if I had been able to play through it.

I can imagine, it would have driven me nuts.

[Khosan]

Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars holds a special place in my heart for being the first RPG I ever played. I think I could usually play it up until just before the final fight with Smithy, but couldn't beat him, not until about five years later.

[Texas Jedi]

<.< Nobody else likes Might and Magic then. This saddens me.

I liked Might and Magic 1, 2, 3 and World of Xeen. I never could get into the more realistic ones like 6, 7, and 8. I was hooked by Baldur's Gate.

[DeathQuaker]

Oh! Might and Magic! Yes. Excellent series. One of the first RPGs I ever played, I think was the very first one. My favorite was 7 but I played 1, 2, some of 4-5, 6, 7, 8 and loved them all.

MMIX of course was never made, sadly. :smalltongue:

[Setra]

They have a bunch of Might and Magic games on Gametap, specifically the first five. Maybe I'll check em out.

[Kranden]

Two points: Do you mean FF12? Or 10-2? It's helpful to make that clear.

Ivalice was, or at least should be based off of Final Fantasy Tactics, which was completely awesome and not the gut-wrenchingly stupid 'excrement'-fest that was the GBA knock-off's.

---

Least favorite? The Chrono series, not only because they were as stupidly over-hyped as FF7, but because the games were not fun, period.

I dont think Ivalace is the same world that was the PSX FF tactics and as for Did I mean FF12 or FF10-2?

both are horrible

Also I dont think you can seriously hate FFVII yes its over hyped a ton but it was an amazing RPG for its time. People try to bring out all the flaws it has now forgetting we didn't even see them the first time around. It was a good RPG and your only lying to yourself if you are trying to show yourself off as a rebel by claiming it was bad.

But then again I don't get what people see in Earthbound. I never thought that RPG was particularly fun.

[Pan Dildoe]

Plane Scape - Tornment
did really own back in the days

Dark Sun - Wake of the Ravager
even owning, and a lot older, but a really nice rpg

Gothic
2>1>3

Kotor
great sci-fi RPGs

...but my all time favorite is...

Fallout I & II
I played those till my eyes were bleeding from staring at the screen...

[Setra]

Plane Scape - Tornment
Fallout I & II

Actually.. these are on gametap too...

I have them downloaded but for some reason I can't bring myself to play them. Maybe I'm afraid they won't live up.

Edit:
On another note I meant to respond to this

Dragonball Z is the only series I can think of with a fanbase of comparable ferocity and size.
One Word: Halo