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The New Bruceski
2008-09-27, 02:16 PM
Here's what happened: our group of four freshly seventh-level adventurers encountered a Spirit Devourer, a level 11 elite. We'd handled similar level gaps before, but this one creamed us. We couldn't hit the thing, and it was chewing on our tank. The DM ended up calling a reboot, because a couple of smaller monsters had made it so we couldn't run.

The disagreement was in post-encounter analysis. One player argues that the main problem was that the monster's stats accounted for the jump at Paragon, and so defenses, damage and +hit were higher than a typical +4. The DM feels that while that fight was clearly out of our reach, it was the monster, not the level. I haven't looked at the MM.

So my question: is there an inherent jump in stats for 11th-level monsters that DMs need to keep in mind, or was that just a particularly tough one/we were unlucky?

fred321
2008-09-27, 02:26 PM
Just take a look at the monster manual, the diference between 10th and 11th level looks the same between 10th and 9th.
You were unlucky or perhaps the monsterīs level was too high

Starsinger
2008-09-27, 02:31 PM
Just an observation, 11th level is when you get your 4th encounter power. So maybe 11th level encounters are a bit more powerful than your typical 4 level jump. Still it seems like it'd be doable. I'm gonna say I think it was luck, but that's cuz I don't feel quite like reading my monster manual and crunching :smalltongue:

Starbuck_II
2008-09-27, 03:18 PM
Here's what happened: our group of four freshly seventh-level adventurers encountered a Spirit Devourer, a level 11 elite. We'd handled similar level gaps before, but this one creamed us. We couldn't hit the thing, and it was chewing on our tank. The DM ended up calling a reboot, because a couple of smaller monsters had made it so we couldn't run.

The disagreement was in post-encounter analysis. One player argues that the main problem was that the monster's stats accounted for the jump at Paragon, and so defenses, damage and +hit were higher than a typical +4. The DM feels that while that fight was clearly out of our reach, it was the monster, not the level. I haven't looked at the MM.

So my question: is there an inherent jump in stats for 11th-level monsters that DMs need to keep in mind, or was that just a particularly tough one/we were unlucky?

Could yah post' your character/builds? Maybe you were just out of your elements?

What were you doing on the Shadowfell? If you weren't there the monster was a rogue monster that escaped the shadowfell (happens but not common).

Did you use radiant attacks?
Were you targetting Reflex (lowest defense)?
Were you well rested or was this after a couple battles before resting?

Did someone get "trapped"?
It was a Soldier so high defenses are normal for its type.

Oracle_Hunter
2008-09-27, 03:43 PM
Also note that Spirit Devourers are somewhat ridiculous; it can remove characters from play and eat their souls for HP as a standard and minor action respectively. Most 11th level monsters (and certainly all of the non-elite ones) aren't that powerful.

Zocelot
2008-09-27, 04:18 PM
Sometimes when you level up, you get more power then others, but monsters increase in power at the same rate. That said, the difference isn't noticable enough to cause you to lose that fight. It was just bad dice and a tough enemy.

The New Bruceski
2008-09-27, 04:36 PM
Could yah post' your character/builds? Maybe you were just out of your elements?

What were you doing on the Shadowfell? If you weren't there the monster was a rogue monster that escaped the shadowfell (happens but not common).

Did you use radiant attacks?
Were you targetting Reflex (lowest defense)?
Were you well rested or was this after a couple battles before resting?

Did someone get "trapped"?
It was a Soldier so high defenses are normal for its type.

Wizard, Fighter, Cleric (strength, not much radiant), and warlock. Pretty much all of us had +10 to hit. Mostly fort/will/AC, so we were about 25% chance to hit.

Wasn't on the Shadowfell. Somebody in the town we're in is summoning undead (we think, there's shadar-kai around too which is odd, but it's in-game odd, not sloppy-DM odd). We just got a legendary sword repaired (after the fight) that will help, I believe it's equivalent to a sunsword +2 or something? Something from the AV.

And yeah, trapping was the issue. The guy never missed, so from the time we realized it was bad, our fighter never got another turn.

--It sounds like things have been answered, it was just a poor match-up, not a Tier issue. Thanks to the folks who helped, I'll try and stop the argument going on.