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Silvarelion
2008-09-27, 05:24 PM
I just had a thought.

If a wizard or magic user were to take Still Spell, wouldn't he then be able to get past the Spell Failure percentage since spell failure is because of Somatic components?

Now, if this were true, everyone would do this, so what is wrong with this thinking?

mostlyharmful
2008-09-27, 05:27 PM
I just had a thought.

If a wizard or magic user were to take Still Spell, wouldn't he then be able to get past the Spell Failure percentage since spell failure is because of Somatic components?

Now, if this were true, everyone would do this, so what is wrong with this thinking?

+1 spell level. It's essentially being two levels lower. There are ways to get rid of it but they're genearlly quite build expensive.

The_Snark
2008-09-27, 05:28 PM
This is true. The reason not everybody does this is that Still Spell raises the level of any spell you use it on by 1, and the tradeoff is not considered worth it, especially when mages aren't proficient with the better armors anyway.

Frosty
2008-09-27, 05:30 PM
I just had a thought.

If a wizard or magic user were to take Still Spell, wouldn't he then be able to get past the Spell Failure percentage since spell failure is because of Somatic components?

Now, if this were true, everyone would do this, so what is wrong with this thinking?

Because wearing armor isn't all that good. You've got aspell called Greater Mage amror which gives you +6 AC anyways, so why would you want to wear armor?

mostlyharmful
2008-09-27, 05:36 PM
Because wearing armor isn't all that good. You've got aspell called Greater Mage amror which gives you +6 AC anyways, so why would you want to wear armor?

There are, to be fair, some funky enhancements that can be hung on +1 armour reasonably cheaply. Why you'd want armour with more than +1 armour when there's Vestments spells out there I don't know, DnD is designed as a team game after all.

Kurald Galain
2008-09-27, 05:49 PM
There are cheaper ways of doing that than essentially losing two wizard levels (e.g. lose one wiz level for spellthief and take the master spellthief feat to gain armored casting ability; that's not very powerful either).

monty
2008-09-27, 05:55 PM
+1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt. +5 to AC for 5250 gp, assuming I did the math right. No penalties, unless you sleep in it. Stick on any other enchantments if you really want them.

Eldariel
2008-09-27, 05:57 PM
There's this armor called Thistledown Padded Leather Armor. There's also Twilight or Githcraft Mithril Chain Shirt. Both have no ACF, -0 ACP (which means no penalties for non-proficiency) and perfectly normal enhancability (although Twilight counts as a +1 enhancement - that's why I prefer Githcraft or ). Heck, if you feel like it, pick up a Githcraft Twilight Mithril Full plate with a level of Spellsword under your belt and enjoy casting in a Full plate without ASF. Add Nimbleness and it'll have a mere -1 ACP (I'm sure there's some way I'm not thinking of to remove that besides feats).

But the point is, you can spend few thousand gold for it instead of having to spend a feat and increasing all your spellslots by one (effectively putting you two levels behind in casting, and never reaching level 9 spells).

EDIT: Oh yeah, Thistledown Padded costs 405gp. That's barely any more than a normal Mw. Padded Leather, so the money is really no object.

BRC
2008-09-27, 05:57 PM
What they said. I have heard of some PRC that reduces the Metamagic increase thingy enough that one could cast Still Spell's for free.
Think about it this way, It's 3 feats to get heavy armor proficiency if you have no armor proficiency (Like a wizard), then one feat for the still spell. There's four feats down the drain. Compare that to casting Mage Armor, wearing bracers of armor, casting Magic Vestment, or hiding behind the meat shield.

Frosty
2008-09-27, 06:04 PM
You are a wizard. Why are you cowering behind the Fighter anyways? You're 50ft up in the air with your 8 mirror images and Displacement. Why should you fear getting hit?

mostlyharmful
2008-09-27, 06:04 PM
+1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt. +5 to AC for 5250 gp, assuming I did the math right. No penalties, unless you sleep in it. Stick on any other enchantments if you really want them.

It counts as light armour so there's no penalty at all beyound cost.

Eldariel
2008-09-27, 06:06 PM
What they said. I have heard of some PRC that reduces the Metamagic increase thingy enough that one could cast Still Spell's for free.
Think about it this way, It's 3 feats to get heavy armor proficiency if you have no armor proficiency (Like a wizard), then one feat for the still spell. There's four feats down the drain. Compare that to casting Mage Armor, wearing bracers of armor, casting Magic Vestment, or hiding behind the meat shield.

There are a few ways for this. Incantatrix is one, but once you're an Incantatrix, Still Spell is the least of your tricks. Easy Metamagic and Practical Metamagic both work too, but both also cost you a feat. And all that at the risk that the DM nukes Metamagic costing 0. Still, it can be done. Mostly for an Incantatrix since they get it completely by accident - they don't need to pay anything for the ability if they have Still Spell. But again, Incantatrixes are much better than that.

monty
2008-09-27, 06:14 PM
Don't all the metamagic tricks besides Arcane Thesis explicitly say they won't reduce it below 1? I don't want to dig through all my stuff to check, but I'm pretty sure that most of those are useless for Silent Spell.

But yeah, you should be flying, illusioned, and throwing around maximized empowered twinned split-ray chained Enervations, not getting hit.

ShneekeyTheLost
2008-09-27, 06:14 PM
The +1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt has a number of advantages:

1) Cheap. Under 5k.

2) No ASF

3) No Dex Penalties. Doesn't matter if you're proficent or not, there are no dex penalties to apply to anything anyways.

4) Enchantable. Since it's +1 already, you can throw on stuff like Fortification onto it.

Better way, however, would be to find a way to qualify for a one-level dip in SpellSword, which is +1 BAB, +1 Caster, and grants -10% ASF, so you don't need the Twilight enchantment and save yourself quite a chunk of change. This may require a one-level dip in Fighter to qualify (barb/ranger won't work because it also requires armor proficencies).

You're not really using it for armor. AC is irrelevant for a mage anyways. With spells like Greater Blink, Greater Mirror Image, Foresight, and Celerity... you don't need to worry about AC, because no one is going to have a chance in hell of landing a melee attack no matter WHAT their attack bonus is.

monty
2008-09-27, 06:18 PM
The +1 Twilight Mithral Chain Shirt has a number of advantages:

Nitpicks:


1) Cheap. Under 5k.

5250. 4000 from +2 enchantment plus 1000 for mithral plus 150 masterwork plus 100 base.


3) No Dex Penalties. Doesn't matter if you're proficent or not, there are no dex penalties to apply to anything anyways.

I assume you mean armor check penalty. It has a +6 max Dex, the only possible downside other than cost.


4) Enchantable. Since it's +1 already, you can throw on stuff like Fortification onto it.

+2, not +1.

Fax Celestis
2008-09-27, 06:21 PM
If you really have a pressing need for AC in a pinch and feel like dropping two feats, you can pick up Martial Study followed by Martial Stance, and take the Pearl of Black Doubt stance from the Diamond Mind discipline. +2 AC every time someone misses you. Couple this with miss chance (displacement, blur, &c.), and you're golden.

Eldariel
2008-09-27, 06:23 PM
Don't all the metamagic tricks besides Arcane Thesis explicitly say they won't reduce it below 1? I don't want to dig through all my stuff to check, but I'm pretty sure that most of those are useless for Silent Spell.

Yes, true. My bad on that.

John Campbell
2008-09-27, 07:09 PM
Or, if you want to wear real armor, not this elfy mithril twilight stuff, there's always Runesmith, which is a 5-level full-caster-progression prestige class with better HD and saves than Wizard (plus extra class features!), is trivial to qualify for for any dwarven fighter/mage or cleric/mage type, and which basically allows Stilling all spells for free. No ASF in any armor.

My last PC, the one in my avatar, was a dwarven fighter/wizard (Runesmith/Abjurant Champion/etc.) who wore, and cast in, adamantine full plate (that he'd forged and enchanted himself). He was tremendous fun... believed that concealment was for cowards and mind control was outright evil, no excuses (unlike, say, necromancy, which he was fine with in most circumstances), so he had no use for practically the entirety of the schools of Illusion and Enchantment (though he wasn't a specialist, because I needed a few of the more acceptable spells from them for, mostly, item-making purposes). He'd buff and blast, and then wade in to kill things with his axe. Both the armor and the axe were so heavily enchanted that towards the end of the campaign, I had to stop adding stuff to them because I ran into the Epic price limit.

Eldariel
2008-09-27, 07:22 PM
That works, or as mentioned before, Spellsword. One-level dip already gets you standard Mithril Breastplate quite easily. If you feel like Channeling, it'll cost you casting (screw Wizards for designing half-caster classes so poorly that they're almost never as good as straight Wizard even in melee...), but in the process, get you enough ASF ignorance that you can almost cast without error in Mithril Full Plate (you only need to get 5% off through any means - Githcraft, Twilight, etc. all work). Of course, true Wizards cast with Tower Shield and Mechanus Gear.

MeklorIlavator
2008-09-27, 07:23 PM
Nitpicks:
5250. 4000 from +2 enchantment plus 1000 for mithral plus 150 masterwork plus 100 base.


Mostly right, but the price of masterwork is included in the cost of making something mithral. Still, that makes the price 5100.

nargbop
2008-09-28, 04:02 PM
Re : OP. I would say yes, your increased arcane spell failure chance from encumbering armor is negated by Still Spell. That being said, it's +1 to the spell level, which gets annoying.
If you want to play an arcane caster who fights, take the Complete Mage prestige class Abjurant Champion. You get full BaB, full casting, and some neat shielding and bufffing class abilities.

Paul H
2008-09-28, 05:43 PM
Hi

As already been pointed out, wizards already got better armour from spells, those who don't already have Lt Armour proficiency, so can avoid ASF. If better armour required then Battle Caster (plus the feat to wear better armour) is better.

Cheers
Paul H

Chronos
2008-09-28, 07:12 PM
+2 AC every time someone misses you. Couple this with miss chance (displacement, blur, &c.), and you're golden.Yes, but the AC bonus only lasts until the end of the round. So it's only really useful if you're getting attacked a lot of times per round, which is a situation a wizard shouldn't be getting into in the first place.

monty
2008-09-28, 11:44 PM
Hi

As already been pointed out, wizards already got better armour from spells, those who don't already have Lt Armour proficiency, so can avoid ASF. If better armour required then Battle Caster (plus the feat to wear better armour) is better.

Cheers
Paul H

Note that Battle Caster requires that you can already ignore ASF in some kind of armor, so wizards can't benefit from it.

Collin152
2008-09-28, 11:45 PM
Note that Battle Caster requires that you can already ignore ASF in some kind of armor, so wizards can't benefit from it.

Isn't 'no kind' some kind?

monty
2008-09-28, 11:59 PM
Isn't 'no kind' some kind?

By definition of the word "some," no.