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Lord Tataraus
2008-09-27, 06:17 PM
I just started up a game with some every enthusiastic players, but there is a slight...awkwardness. All but one has played an RPG before, but they really didn't know how to start off once I gave them the basic information.

My first question is how do you run an investigation-based game as a GM, do you lend a bit of aid through a NPC, or just let them loose. Part of the initial problem was I let them loose from the beginning, it may have been because it happened so fast, there was a delayed reaction; however, they did seem to get in the groove of things soon afterward. How do I ensure that this doesn't happen in the next mission, should I give out clues to mysterys to be solved in the future, or should I just focus on the current mission and make all of the red herrings just dead ends?

One other point that came up is, if you run an investigation-based game, do you run it completely IC or do you allow for OOC talk to the GM and do you allow player knowledge?

- LT

Ricky S
2008-09-27, 06:43 PM
Hey, well I have been playing in an investigation based campaign in a city. Basically the DM in my campaign would have a safe house where our party stayed and then an informant would give us a job to do. ie. go investigate the missing girl in dumpside or investigate the happenings of a new gang that has formed. Sometimes yes people do not really know what to do with this idea as it is fairly broad. You should give them a map of an area or tell them they have to meet an npc who has more information (fighting enemies to get there of course), then continue on with the main plot.

You do need to guide your players and nudge them along to avoid large mayhem and them destroying your plot sometimes. But generally you can just give them free reign once they get they idea. You could have them "investigate" say a warehouse but have all the things that are inside preplanned. That way they still get to kill some bad guys and find some information.

Out of interest what is your plot idea, without giving away anything in case you players read this?

BRC
2008-09-27, 06:48 PM
I just started up a game with some every enthusiastic players, but there is a slight...awkwardness. All but one has played an RPG before, but they really didn't know how to start off once I gave them the basic information.

My first question is how do you run an investigation-based game as a GM, do you lend a bit of aid through a NPC, or just let them loose. Part of the initial problem was I let them loose from the beginning, it may have been because it happened so fast, there was a delayed reaction; however, they did seem to get in the groove of things soon afterward. How do I ensure that this doesn't happen in the next mission, should I give out clues to mysterys to be solved in the future, or should I just focus on the current mission and make all of the red herrings just dead ends?

One other point that came up is, if you run an investigation-based game, do you run it completely IC or do you allow for OOC talk to the GM and do you allow player knowledge?

- LT
I'm doing just such a campaign right now. Generally, I say let them loose. Give them some contacts that can help them in specific situations, even remind them that they have those contacts, but generally let them do things on their own.

Also, avoid doing something like hiding a critical piece of evidence behind a Search check. Let's say they are investigating a locked-room murder and there is a trapdoor hidden under one of the rugs. Your notes shouldn't simply read "DC 25 search check to find the trapdoor", because if they make the check then that's not very intresting. If they don't make the check they are stuck.


The rule I have been using has been the rule of Three. You set up at least three different methods by which the PC's could solve the mystery. Three different clues, each of which leads them to another clue that sheds light on the truth.

Another point, try to avoid the "Gotcha" clue. A single clue that solves the case. Let's take an example.


Jimmy "Fingers" was a thief who recently stole alot of money with the help of his accomplice Freddy. Freddy decides he dosn't want to share the money with Jimmy, and so he kills him. However, Jimmy hid the money under a hollowed-out floorboard in his house. Freddy kills Jimmy but can't find the money, so he leaves in frustration.


Good clues might be

The money under the floorboard. Helps provide the motive.

Jimmy's criminal record: I did this in my campaign, the PC's got the criminal record of one of the people they were after, it included a list of known criminal associates most of which had nothing to do with the case and many of which were either presumed dead or in jail. This hid the relevant information in a sea of irrelevant, forcing the PC's to ponder things out.

Other things: Door wasn't forced, Jimmy was stabbed in the chest, implying it was somebody Jimmy knew, ect ect. Things that don't give the complete picture in of themselves. More like a jigsaw puzzle.


What you don't want is a diary entry that says "I stole abunch of money with Freddy, Freddy seemed dissapointed when we split up the loot."




The big point of an investigation based game is to challenge the players minds instead of the numbers on their sheets. If your guiding them along all the time you're not doing that. For the very first session you might want to make things clear for them, thats what I did (I had an NPC give them two leads, then say "you should probably check these out".) However, if they are already in the swing of things, just let them loose.

TheThan
2008-09-27, 07:22 PM
Someone here had a very good essay about running investigation games.

[scubbed] Crow beat me to it[/scrubbed]

quillbreaker
2008-09-27, 07:34 PM
The biggest problem with investigation based games is that some things which you think are easy to figure out the players will never figure out, and some things that you think are hard the players will grasp in seconds. In detective fiction the detective always figures out things just in time to make the plot go forwards - that's something you absolutely can not rely upon.

You should probably fill your game with easier mysteries that leave clues to an overall mystery, or anything to break up a linear sequence of clues. In real life most crimes go unsolved, and that will probably occur in your game as well unless you get heavy-handed or overly simplistic. Make sure your plot is crafted to cope.

A lot of mystery has to do with motive, which may require a lot of depth for a number of npcs. In a non-mystery game "why" can be almost ignored, but in a mystery game "why" is huge, and that involves getting into a lot of background.

Lord Tataraus
2008-09-27, 08:33 PM
Well, the game is Hunter: The Vigil which in and of itself makes ensures a lot of elements are already in place, contacts and resources are built into the characters just by the fact of being Hunters (a real godsend). Also, it does sort of help in solving the mystery because the characters already know roughly what it is. The basic plot is that the characters are new hunters who have been taken under the wing of an old veteran hunter who is too maimed and physically fatigued to do anything himself, so he is training the characters to take his place. So, the first mission was a strange occurrence that obviously screams paranormal forces at work, but the question is how big is this operation and what is it behind it all, you don't want to go guns blazing into a vampire HQ hoping its just a murderous demon. So, the hunter mentor gave them the information he had: a medical research lab with a government deal for early parole reward to convicts who participate in the testing where way too many people go in with nothing really coming out, no one is paying attention to this anomaly (the police keep sending in convicts and their seems to be no government inspections), and the name of the lead researcher.

I'll try to review my clues to make sure I don't have any "gotcha's" but I am prepared for the players never realizing the most obvious clue that has happened too many times for me to make that mistake again. Also, it does kind of help that the characters no nothing about the world they are getting into so I do have the mentor as a back up to help explain clues.

I think the hardest part is to try and not tell them the workings of nWoD and spoil it for them, none of the players have played any WoD so it works out perfectly as an intro.

valadil
2008-09-27, 08:35 PM
Write clues, but don't place them in the game. When the players investigate something, drop a clue there. Granted the big clues, like the murder weapon, will only have a few locations where they can sensibly appear, but little things like a love letter could show up anywhere the players could conceivably investigate.

If you do need to show them the ropes, I'd start with an NPC as suggested, but kill him off. Let him hold their hand through one or two investigations then start doing investigations that are time sensitive, so he runs off after one clue and the players go for another. Finally have him not return, so they go to check out his part of the crime scene and find the NPC dead too.

Lord Tataraus
2008-09-27, 08:41 PM
If you do need to show them the ropes, I'd start with an NPC as suggested, but kill him off. Let him hold their hand through one or two investigations then start doing investigations that are time sensitive, so he runs off after one clue and the players go for another. Finally have him not return, so they go to check out his part of the crime scene and find the NPC dead too.

Unfortunately, the NPC in question is in no condition to go out and investigate with one thoroughly mangled leg beyond repair and a demonic worm literally embracing his heart for warmth make him extremely vulnerable, though that does make killing him off one heart attack away. Though I guess it probably would be best to kill him off eventually, possibly with one last mission with his dying breath...hmmm ideas....

kbk
2008-09-28, 02:18 PM
Call of Cthulu games are 90% investigation, 5% confusion, and 5% WTF, insanity. So they are a good source for how you might do an investigation game. The horror and insanity are up to you.


#1 You need players willing to think and explore. If your players just want to kill stuff, this is not a good game to try to run. It also helps if they really play their characters. Roleplaying can really make investigation games fun.

#2 Build an immersive setting. You won't be able to have answers to everything, but try to come up with a logic and reasoning for the way things are. Be consistent. Add detail, but do so consistently.


a) Details can sometimes derail your party. Be careful. They will want to examine things that you describe in extra detail.

b) Don't forget to describe things that ARE important. They will be upset if you skipped over important clues.



#3 Be flexible. Sometimes simple puzzles will take forever for someone to solve. Sometimes puzzles you think are really difficult they will figure out immediately.

#4 Have an external way to drive the plot, especially if they end up getting hung up on a few minor points. CoC games involving a haunted house usually involve characters staying over in the house for whatever reason and certain events that happen on different days. They often have NPCs that stay with them, or help them have a reason to stay there. These NPCs have jobs to do, or help get the group together for important events. You can halt the events if they need to discover something first, or if they do something to skip ahead, you can speed up the flow of events.