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Jack Zander
2008-09-28, 09:32 AM
Hit Dice
For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever is higher

Does this affect things like skills and feats? It would be really awesome to teach my raven fly by attack and have him deliver touch spells with it.

kamikasei
2008-09-28, 09:36 AM
No. It affects things like the sleep spell, or color spray, or other such effects where the actual type of the HD is irrelevant, only the number of them.

Skills explicitly depend on the base animal or the master, not any kind of advancement of the familiar itself. Feats are a bit of a gray area but I believe they're generally agreed not to be gained.

Jack Zander
2008-09-28, 09:38 AM
That's what I figured, though I was being hopeful.

I'll have to custom build an item that grants fly by attack instead then.

Rad
2008-09-28, 02:53 PM
I found it immensely unfair that everybody's pets get feats and familiars don't.

nargbop
2008-09-28, 03:22 PM
Houseruling suggestion : I've interpreted the familiars as being extensions of the character, a manifestation of mind/soul/whatever. I would say that the familiar gets access to whatever feats the owner has.

That is to say :smallsmile: your caster has to waste a feat on Flyby Attack in order to let your raven use it. It's a balance thing; you don't gain Extend Spell or whichever feat you were going to take, but you gain a significant amount of flexibility for tactics.

Jack Zander
2008-09-28, 05:36 PM
Houseruling suggestion : I've interpreted the familiars as being extensions of the character, a manifestation of mind/soul/whatever. I would say that the familiar gets access to whatever feats the owner has.

That is to say :smallsmile: your caster has to waste a feat on Flyby Attack in order to let your raven use it. It's a balance thing; you don't gain Extend Spell or whichever feat you were going to take, but you gain a significant amount of flexibility for tactics.

That sounds awesome and well balanced. I suppose my wizard could even use fly by attack once he learns fly (though really my raven should always be making the touch attacks for me).

The Glyphstone
2008-09-28, 06:04 PM
The solution, of course, is to be a psion/wilder. Psicrystals explicity do have the same number of HD as their manifester, except that they are Construct HD instead of whatever type the master's is.

This can be rather cheesy with Feat Leech, but that's the only time it really gets unbalancing...psicrystals aren't exactly threatening opponents in normal circumstances.

Jack_Simth
2008-09-28, 06:15 PM
I found it immensely unfair that everybody's pets get feats and familiars don't.
There's quite a few of differences.

The Druid's Animal Companion (and, to a lesser extent, the Ranger's) gets actual hit dice, complete with feats and skills, and they can be replaced for free with a free day. No consequences for losing the Animal Companion.

The Paladin's Mount gets actual bonus hit dice, and feats come with it; it comes back next time the paladin levels, or after a month, whichever comes first. Mild and temporary consequences for losing the Special Mount.

The Psicrystal (essentially any psionic character can take it) gets hit dice "as master", but 1/2 master's HP - but it's got actual hit dice, so it gets feats. No 3.5 regaining mechanism is defined, and no listed consequences for losing the psicrystal.

The Wizard's Familiar? It's treated as having it's master's hit dice for effects relating to hit dice - but it never actually gains hit dice. It's got fixed skill ranks (but gets to share it's master's... which is generally just a free +2 from Aid Another, or a free re-roll at a usually reduced check).

Mind you, in quite a few ways, the Familiar is a bit better than the other pets for out-of-combat stuff - it's intelligent and small, which makes it a very useful spy or scout. They generally get very nice bonuses to certain skills, which can make them very good lookouts, too.

Collin152
2008-09-28, 07:24 PM
There's quite a few of differences.

The Druid's Animal Companion (and, to a lesser extent, the Ranger's) gets actual hit dice, complete with feats and skills, and they can be replaced for free with a free day. No consequences for losing the Animal Companion.

The Paladin's Mount gets actual bonus hit dice, and feats come with it; it comes back next time the paladin levels, or after a month, whichever comes first. Mild and temporary consequences for losing the Special Mount.

The Psicrystal (essentially any psionic character can take it) gets hit dice "as master", but 1/2 master's HP - but it's got actual hit dice, so it gets feats. No 3.5 regaining mechanism is defined, and no listed consequences for losing the psicrystal.

The Wizard's Familiar? It's treated as having it's master's hit dice for effects relating to hit dice - but it never actually gains hit dice. It's got fixed skill ranks (but gets to share it's master's... which is generally just a free +2 from Aid Another, or a free re-roll at a usually reduced check).

Mind you, in quite a few ways, the Familiar is a bit better than the other pets for out-of-combat stuff - it's intelligent and small, which makes it a very useful spy or scout. They generally get very nice bonuses to certain skills, which can make them very good lookouts, too.

Incidently, this means having a familiar is jsut about the only way you can retry a Knowledge check before you gain more skill points.

blondie_tealeaf
2008-09-30, 11:29 AM
There's quite a few of differences.

The Druid's Animal Companion (and, to a lesser extent, the Ranger's) gets actual hit dice, complete with feats and skills, and they can be replaced for free with a free day. No consequences for losing the Animal Companion.

The Paladin's Mount gets actual bonus hit dice, and feats come with it; it comes back next time the paladin levels, or after a month, whichever comes first. Mild and temporary consequences for losing the Special Mount.

The Psicrystal (essentially any psionic character can take it) gets hit dice "as master", but 1/2 master's HP - but it's got actual hit dice, so it gets feats. No 3.5 regaining mechanism is defined, and no listed consequences for losing the psicrystal.

The Wizard's Familiar? It's treated as having it's master's hit dice for effects relating to hit dice - but it never actually gains hit dice. It's got fixed skill ranks (but gets to share it's master's... which is generally just a free +2 from Aid Another, or a free re-roll at a usually reduced check).

Mind you, in quite a few ways, the Familiar is a bit better than the other pets for out-of-combat stuff - it's intelligent and small, which makes it a very useful spy or scout. They generally get very nice bonuses to certain skills, which can make them very good lookouts, too.

Don't forget all the fun you can have with familiars and use magic device checks to activate wands. Two spells a round from a wizard and his familar? Actions are gold at higher levels.

I would argue that this skill sharing makes the familiar more useful than the Druid's animal companion (contentious I know). You need to burn XP on crafting some wands but even cheap spells like glitterdust and grease can turn a fight.

Then there is all sorts of fun to be had with Imbue Familiar with Spell (sp?)...

Chronos
2008-09-30, 12:36 PM
I would argue that this skill sharing makes the familiar more useful than the Druid's animal companion (contentious I know).I agree. A druid's companion is good for eating something's face, but that's about all they're good for. Between the skills and the greater intelligence (enough to follow directions, at least), familiars are good at everything else.