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Staven
2008-09-28, 07:11 PM
So my friend and our DM, not a fan of high power games, decided to run a gestalt campaign, after some pressuring from our resident rules lawyer, who had mine and our other member's support. After some diliberation, I've decided to make a wizard/cleric, sort of a mystic theurgey thing. I'm not actually taking the PrC, but, you know. I decided to take two god classes, and, as a backstory detail, have him heavily medicated most of the time to control his power-mongering megalomania. What feat build should I use for the guy, should I use a few metamagic things, or what? I'm not too experienced with casters, I usually play a sorcerer so that I don't need to write a spellbook, so could I get some help? Thanks in advance. Name ideas are also welcome, I'm stumped as far as names go.

Nohwl
2008-09-28, 07:41 PM
why are you not taking mystic theurge?

SurlySeraph
2008-09-28, 07:47 PM
The wording for Divine Metamagic doesn't say you can't apply it to arcane spells. If you can get decent Charisma and take Extra Turning, DMM, and Persistent Spell, you can walk around with Divine Might and a buff like Tenser's Transformation up all day. Or something similar to Transformation that doesn't take away your spellcasting ability; maybe persistent Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance.

AmberVael
2008-09-28, 07:48 PM
why are you not taking mystic theurge?

Because they're playing Gestalt and such a PrC is banned?
Or at least I'd hope?

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-28, 07:49 PM
Might I recommend going either Sorcerer instead of Wizard or Archivist instead of Cleric? Either way would reduce MAD, which is only a good thing. Dual-caster gestalts are popular, but usually weak, FYI, so there are a lot better combos if you want them.

Eldariel
2008-09-28, 07:53 PM
I'd get Extend Spell and probably Quicken Spell eventually. Other than that, the usual caster fare is all good - metamagic enhancements, perhaps extra spells known (Collegiate Wizard from Complete Arcana, for example), etc.

Since you're Gestalt, your feat slots will be limited, so use them well. Also, I second the suggestion of trying to reduce your MAD - it's very painful to have low save DCs in one of your progressions because you focused on the other key modifier (and you'll have lowish saves in both if you try to advance both), so having your casting keyed off the same stat is good.


SurlySeraph: The errata on Divine Metamagic states "Divine Spells".

Nohwl
2008-09-28, 07:55 PM
oh. gestalt. i should read more carefully.

Douglas
2008-09-28, 07:57 PM
The wording for Divine Metamagic doesn't say you can't apply it to arcane spells.
That got fixed by errata.


If you can get decent Charisma and take Extra Turning, DMM, and Persistent Spell, you can walk around with Divine Might and a buff like Tenser's Transformation up all day.
Tenser's Transformation is a terrible choice, Divine Power is much better and available earlier.

Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell is a major standard power build - so much so that you may have to worry about overshadowing the rest of the party too much. Hmm, maybe have him focus primarily on party-friendly buffs when he's on his meds, then switch to mainly self buffs if he ever stops taking them? Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor, Prayer, Bless, and so on normally, and break out Persistent Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might, etc. if the campaign's power level turns out to be that high or he stops taking his medicine.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-28, 08:15 PM
Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell is a major standard power build - so much so that you may have to worry about overshadowing the rest of the party too much. Hmm, maybe have him focus primarily on party-friendly buffs when he's on his meds, then switch to mainly self buffs if he ever stops taking them? Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor, Prayer, Bless, and so on normally, and break out Persistent Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might, etc. if the campaign's power level turns out to be that high or he stops taking his medicine.DMM:Chain is good for that, too. Toss it on things like GMW and Magic Vestments for lots of awesome. It's why I suggested he switch to Sorcerer instead of Cleric. Also, OP, have you considered Cloistered Cleric (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#clericVariantCloistere dCleric)? You lose BAB and HP and gain skills an extra Domain, and Lore. Maybe good for you, maybe not.

JeminiZero
2008-09-28, 08:19 PM
Get Alternate Source Spell (http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/feats.pl?Alternative_Source_Spell,all). It lets you prepare your arcane spells as divine spells, and therefore, to apply DMM to them.

Chronos
2008-09-29, 12:10 AM
The MAD thing really isn't all that bad... Most of your cleric spells probably won't have saves anyway, especially since, if you need a save-or-whatever spell, you can probably pick it up on your wizard side. Likewise, getting fewer bonus spells on one side isn't such a big deal, since you'll have so many total. Really, all you'd need for Wisdom is to get a 19 by 17th level (and the equivalent at lower levels) to be able to cast all of your spells, and that's pretty easy with some half-decent items.


Get Alternate Source Spell. It lets you prepare your arcane spells as divine spells, and therefore, to apply DMM to them. And also incidentally lets you bypass arcane spell failure.

mabriss lethe
2008-09-29, 12:32 AM
binder for 1/2 the gestalt is popular and darned useful. Psionics could be a decent choice, ideally powers like prowess and hustle for extra actions.

TheCountAlucard
2008-09-29, 02:57 AM
why are you not taking mystic theurge?


http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u80/EzekielArkady/ackbar.jpg

...That's why.

Cuddly
2008-09-29, 03:16 AM
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u80/EzekielArkady/ackbar.jpg

...That's why.

Not in gestalt.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-29, 04:08 AM
Not in gestalt.Because in Gestalt, you literally CAN'T do it.

Greymane
2008-09-29, 04:57 AM
IIRC, you technically can use dual-casting-progression classes in Gestalt, though it's politely hinted that you shouldn't. Most DMs will not allow it for obvious reasons, though.

Staven
2008-09-29, 05:41 AM
I may sound like a newb, but I'm not quite familiar with DMM. It's in complete divine, right? And yeah, no PrCs for a couple reasons:

1. It is, of course, a trap.
2. Our DM was reluctant enough to do this, and our minmaxer would have a party if PrCs were aloud. Everyone's already gestalt, he's not going to let them go much further.

Sstoopidtallkid
2008-09-29, 06:54 AM
I may sound like a newb, but I'm not quite familiar with DMM. It's in complete divine, right? And yeah, no PrCs for a couple reasons:

1. It is, of course, a trap.
2. Our DM was reluctant enough to do this, and our minmaxer would have a party if PrCs were aloud. Everyone's already gestalt, he's not going to let them go much further.DMM allows you to use Turn Attempt instead of higher-level slots for Metamagic. I like doing it with Chain and spells that are hour/level, but DMM:Persist on personal buffs is highly powerful. Anyways, why did you choose the classes you did? There's far better Gestalt combos with similar flavor.

Kaihaku
2008-09-29, 07:11 AM
Wizard/Archivist?

Jack_Simth
2008-09-29, 07:18 AM
So my friend and our DM, not a fan of high power games, decided to run a gestalt campaign, after some pressuring from our resident rules lawyer, who had mine and our other member's support. After some diliberation, I've decided to make a wizard/cleric, sort of a mystic theurgey thing. I'm not actually taking the PrC, but, you know. I decided to take two god classes, and, as a backstory detail, have him heavily medicated most of the time to control his power-mongering megalomania. What feat build should I use for the guy, should I use a few metamagic things, or what? I'm not too experienced with casters, I usually play a sorcerer so that I don't need to write a spellbook, so could I get some help? Thanks in advance. Name ideas are also welcome, I'm stumped as far as names go.
Name: Gerald Octavio Derrick.
Or: Online Name Generator (http://www.rinkworks.com/namegen/)

It's generally going to be annoying to manage two prepared spellcasting sides in Gestalt. I'd recommend replacing Wizard with Sorcerer.

Pick one side to be the "primary", and run the other as a "secondary" - that is, you use one side for long-duration buffs and spells with no save, and the other for the offensive stuff with saves. The "secondary" side gets just enough of a casting stat to cast the highest-level spell he's got access to.

As for the DMM(Persist) crowd reccomending party-buffs? You might find This Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91554) useful.

Feralgeist
2008-09-29, 11:25 PM
I'd choose something else instead of cleric, something skill-ey like factotum, then just chuck on ur-priest for the spells you would've missed.

Ellephino
2008-09-29, 11:30 PM
I'd get into thurge as soon as possible, and start taking levels in another focus with it

like sorcerer, or druid with it

your magic will know no bounds!

monty
2008-09-30, 10:43 AM
It's gestalt. Taking theurge levels would break everything.