Brainstorming Transforming Monsters for 4E

[chronoplasm]

OK, so all the monsters in 4E are divided up into roles, right?
Minions, Brutes, Skirmishers, Artillery, Controllers, Lurkers, Soldiers
So I want to make some monsters that change their roles when a certain condition is met by changing into an alternate form.


Soldier that is assigned to guard another creature. When that creature dies, the Soldier becomes enraged and turns into a raging Skirmisher form.
Controller that requires some body guards to protect it. When all the guards are killed, the Controller hulks out and becomes a huge Brute.
Minions that become Brutes when their Leader completes a ritual.
An armored Brute that becomes a Lurker when you destroy its armor.
Elemental that alternates between a fire Artillery and a cold Controller.
Soldier that becomes an undead Lurker when it dies.


I have two questions?

1) How would you work the transformation mechanically?
2) How should I flavor these? Like, I have the core concepts but I still need to give them some skin. Any suggestions?

[Jaerc]

The easiest way to do this is to have two sets of stat blocks. Put a note that when condition X occurs the monster switches to the second set of stats (say that three times fast), and if it's relevant to a particular creature when it switches again and what cause that.

While I have no doubt this can be done with mechanical ease, be sure to analyze what this is going to do in a real fight. The way encounters are designed to large degree, as you know, is on these roles, and when you allow transformation that alters these assumptions you may produce strange results. Just something to chew on when using these fellows.

Most of these concepts look pretty cool and I believe you can flesh them out well yourself on the evidence I see there. Is there anything specifically you need help with?

[RTGoodman]

The easiest way to do this is to have two sets of stat blocks. Put a note that when condition X occurs the monster switches to the second set of stats (say that three times fast), and if it's relevant to a particular creature when it switches again and what cause that.

Indeed - WotC even did this with its own "transforming" monster in Dragon #365, in the Codex of Betrayal article on Beleth, Prince of Imps (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drcodex/20080714). One of his lackeys is some demon critter that has three or four different forms, each with its own stat block.

Now, some suggestions:

Don't do anything with Minions. Because of their mechanics and numbers, transforming stuff INTO minions will be too easy and transforming stuff from Minions into anything else would be WAY too difficult.

For a brute that becomes a Lurker when its armor is destroyed, make it a ghost inhabiting a suit of armor. That way both forms make mechanical sense.

Controller that "hulks up" when its bodyguards dies - make it an undead that sucks up souls, and once 4 allies within 10 squares are killed it makes the switch.

That's all I got for now, but I may come up with some ideas in just a bit for more of these.

[chronoplasm]

Jaerc:
I don't need much in the way of specific help for now, just kind of a go ahead before I start statting these critters up.
I'll have some monsters to show by tomorrow or Tuesday, so then I get some critiques. :smallsmile:

*edit*
Actually, there is one small thing. How should I actually word the transformation ability?

[Shadow_Elf]

This has the feel of Zelda, Mario or Metroid bosses. You do one thing X times, the battle's flow changes, you do something else X times, repeat until dead.

Maybe this is how "Boss Battles" can be made to work in 4e...

Good ideas by the way.

[Rigon]

1). for the mechanics i suggest you use "seperate" character sheets / stat blocks. you already defined the trigger to the switch... so the only remaining question is how do you transfer damage and other other statuses between the separate forms.

2). flavour.
Soldier Guard to Skirmisher Avenger:
Beast trained to protect entering rage at the death of his master. (you could simply replace the powers with this)
Golem designed for warfare assigned to stay close and protect its master, if the master is dead/gone then the only objective is to defeat all enemies. (the golem might even transform just for the awesome flavour of it... it could be an automated armor too... image the suprise as the armor jumps off of the dead body and fights the party as a metal skeleton)
Sworn Guardian bound by Ritual as a personal bodyguard. With the death of his master the guardians life slowly fades away... the only thing remaining is to take revenge for both Master and Life. (Can be done with simply replacing the powers or full replacement)

Controller to Brute:
With all his guards defeated the goblin shaman utters a quick spell. The blood of the slain goblins starts to rush toward the shaman just to disappear at his feet... The goblin starts to bulk up more and more and finally he releases a thundering roar ("Hulk Smash!" just joking).

Minions to Brutes:
The fresh orc recruits in the hall chat in a strange unease while some sort chanting seems to echo everywhere. A deep purple cloud bursts out of somewhere the middle of the hall covering all recruits... a few inaudible moans can be heard from within the purple haze and suddenly cloud fades into nothing leaving the transfigured orcs behind. They no longer talk just stand still with an angry stare.

Armored Brute to Unarmored Lurker:
Skinslippers are strange reptiles indeed... they do not shed their skin so often as others of likely kin but keep the dead skin on for protection. But if the shell is way too ragged to wear anymore then these creature arc their back suddenly to rip the dead weight apart at the line of the spine just to slip out and leave and empty shell behind. Another interesting fact is that the poison which is produced on the surface of the skin comes to work only after such a fresh hatch because it can't ooze through the thick, dry and dead skin.
I suggest +AC, +Fortitude, -Reflex and Temporary Hit Points for Brute mode and when it used all temporary hit poits up then skinslip
I suggest Poison Damage, +Reflex and +Speed for Lurker mode.

Elemental, Fire Artillery to Cold Controller:
okay i'm at lost with this... maybe a floating orb-golem (created from elemental energy) which stores heat, fires it off in projectiles and then recharges by absorbing heat from the surroundings (meaning close burst cold attacks).

Soldier to Undead Lurker:
You approach the door at the end of the corridor knowing that the traitorous knight must be behind it. You're several steps away when you hear the ranting from inside:
- This is it, wizard?! We wasted time and gold just to carve some odd symbols into my forehead? WHERE IS THE POWER YOUR DEVIL PATRON PROMISED?!
- (Throw a check if the party can hear the wizards answer) I don't know, my'lord. But the ritual was successful... maybe the effect will come gradually.
- Successful?! Gradually?! Don't try my patience! We have no time to repeat it! Pack up what you can and hurry! The duke's dogs will surely know by now...
The party enters the room... the wizard must have escaped through the back door and you are looking at the knight who just picked up his sword from a desk.
encounter with the knight... blah. you can add the wizard to the encounter if you want (wizard starts invisible). when you kill the knight (0 hp or below):
A choking sound and a surprised look... that's all what is coming from the knight. He slowly starts to fall to the ground where he stood... But suddenly stops his fall and straightens up again
here on it's DM's choice. could be a vampire... could be some poison/acid based undead... could be a lich (altough that sounds stupid for a knight)... your call. if it's a vampire/lich then a knight can get some glorious sentences.

[chronoplasm]

OK, so I've got a monster for you here...

Tell me what you think:

Steam Guardian Level 3 Soldier
Medium Elemental Animate (contruct, fire, water) XP 150

Initiative +5 Senses Perception +5

HP 42; Bloodied 21
AC 19; Fortitude 16, Reflex 15, Will 14
Immune disease, poison; Resist 5 fire, 5 cold
Speed 5
Short Sword (Standard; at-will) ♦ weapon
+8 vs. AC; 1d6+3 damage.
Guard Creature (Immediate Reaction, when an adjacent enemy attacks the creature guarded by Steam Guardian; at-will)
The Steam Guardian makes a short sword attack against the enemy.
Transform (Minor; at-will) ♦ Polymorph
When the creature guarded by Steam Guardian is killed, replace Steam Guardian with Steam Rager.
Alignment Unaligned Languages

Str 16 (+4) Dex 15 (+3) Wis 11 (+1)
Con 15 (+3) Int 5 (-2) Cha 8 (+0)

Equipment Short Sword

Steam Rager Level 3 Skirmisher
Medium Elemental Animate (construct, water, fire) XP 150

Initiative +5 Senses Perception +5

HP 26; Bloodied 13
AC 15; Fortitude 16, Reflex 15, Will 13
Immune poison, disease; Vulnerable 5 fire, 5 cold
Speed 7
Fire Sword (Standard; at-will) ♦ weapon, fire
+8 vs. AC; 1d6+3 plus 1d6 fire damage.
Ice Sword (at-will) ♦ weapon, cold
+8 vs. AC; 1d6+3 plus 1d6 cold damage.
Elemental Rage (Standard; encounter) ♦ weapon
The Steam Rager may use its ice sword power and its fire sword power against a single target. If both attacks are successful, then the Steam Rager may use its steam sword power.
Steam Sword (Standard; at-will) ♦ weapon, fire, cold
+8 vs. AC; 1d6 fire damage plus 1d6 cold damage.
Alignment Unaligned Languages

Str 16 (+4) Dex 15 (+3) Wis 10 (+1)
Con 15 (+3) Int 5 (-2) Cha 8 (+0)

Equipment Short Sword

[Mewtarthio]

So, what happens to those 16 extra hitpoints when he transforms?

[chronoplasm]

So, what happens to those 16 extra hitpoints when he transforms?

Good question.

I don't know. I guess he just loses them?
Should I give them both the same HP?

[Jaerc]

Either is fine, since it is a new state of the same creature and it's abstracted hit points now simply represent something different.

[Rigon]

extra 16 hit points? simple.
golem armor with temporary hit points.
without someone to protect the need to take damage is gone and the dead weight can be removed.

[chronoplasm]

Thanks!

I'm wondering if the Steam Rager has a little too much damage and not enough mobility. What do you guys think?

[Rigon]

don't worry about mobility with a berserking golem.
as for the damage... 1d6 fire + 3 damage and 1d6 cold + 3 damage would look more reasonable. (2d6+3 at will does sound overpowering on level 3)

how about steam explosion when it dies?
constitution versus reflex... randomized normal/fire/cold type 2d6 damage.
miss random normal/fire/cold type 1d6 damage.

[chronoplasm]

Sounds good.

I'll get working on the Controller/Brute when I get home.

Hmmm...

Okay, I have a couple ideas:

1) Chained Coffin > Vampire Prisoner
In its first form (controller), the monster is a giant coffin chained shut that floats around. When four enemies are destroyed, the coffin breaks open to reveal the muscle-bound vampire (brute) inside.

2) Warheart I +Thunder Fist +Lightning Fist > Warheart II
In its first form, Warheart is a huge floating maggot looking thing wearing a helmet. It's able to summon two giant gauntlets to it's side though. The left gauntlet is a soldier with a lightning attack and the right gauntlet is a soldier with a thunder attack. When both guantlets are destroyed, Warheart takes off the helmet and covers the rest of itself with armor.

Which should I work on tonight?

[Rigon]

well the second one sounds like a boss from Chrono Trigger... so i vote for the second.
Maggot wearing a helmet... the pure genius of it.

how about we change the "maggot with helmet" to pupa (as in the pupa state of insect metamorphosis). and when both summoned arms are destroyed the pupa hatches... and Brute force comes out.

[chronoplasm]

well the second one sounds like a boss from Chrono Trigger... so i vote for the second.
Maggot wearing a helmet... the pure genius of it.

how about we change the "maggot with helmet" to pupa (as in the pupa state of insect metamorphosis). and when both summoned arms are destroyed the pupa hatches... and Brute force comes out.

That sounds even better!
Warheart II could be a giant armored butterfl- ...I mean a giant armored MURDERFLY!

Maybe instead of gauntlets, its two companions could be giant hand shaped insects!
Stinger Fist- looks like a bee and does Lightning and Poison damage.
Crusher Fist- looks like a beetle and does Thunder and Acid damage.

[Rigon]

or soldier ants guarding a queen.

[chronoplasm]

That would be cool for a dungeon with Formorians in it.

[Rigon]

you don't have to use them.
you could make up some "random insect race from another plane".
it worked for aliens. (whenever and alien suffers damage greater than 3 the alien acid blood sprays in a close burst 1 doing 1D6 acid damage)

EDIT: now that i think of it.
alien drones guarding a queen which is laying eggs...
when the drones die the queen goes berserk and tears of her own spawnsack... thing. there you have it... acid blooded giant raging mom of doom.

[chronoplasm]

Sweet. I just might do something like that.

Okay, so now I have three monsters I want to make:

1) Chained Coffin that absorbs the souls of fallen minions to break open. When it opens it reveals a huge vampire with the head of a bat and covered in chains.

2) Giant pupa that opens up when its insect guards all die to reveal the queen within. Take inspiration from Aliens.

3) A giant mechanical enemy, Warheart I, with two huge gauntlets that fly around. When the gauntlets are destroyed Warheart I transforms into Warheart II. How though...
!!!
Warheart II could be an airship! :D

*edit*

Hey... I could use each of these for different levels of play.

Pupa = Heroic level.
Chained Coffin = Paragon level.
Warheart = Epic level.

[Shadow_Elf]

3) A giant mechanical enemy, Warheart I, with two huge gauntlets that fly around. When the gauntlets are destroyed Warheart I transforms into Warheart II. How though...
!!!
Warheart II could be an airship! :D


Autobots! Roll Out!
Make it a transformer :smallbiggrin:. That way, realistic is no longer a prerequisite.

[Rigon]

Sounds reasonable.
But remember to increase the fluff with the level.
an Epic encounter has an Epic Tale before and an Epic Tale after it.

[chronoplasm]

Autobots! Roll Out!
Make it a transformer :smallbiggrin:. That way, realistic is no longer a prerequisite.

Yeah!

I see the image in my head right now (perhaps I'll draw up a sketch and scan it for you guys later)

Warheart I:
This construct has a joint on each side where its rocket arms can dock. Otherwise the beast is armless. It has sharp blades on its legs, and in addition to its normal head it has a lions head coming out of its chest.
Role: Controller Leader
Thunder Fist's Role: Soldier
Lightning Fists' Role: Soldier

Warheart II:
The legs of Warheart become the propellors that keep this machine aloft. The torso becomes the hull and the lions head becomes the bow.
Role: Artillery!

*edit*

I should also make a Warheart III as a variation on Warheart I except with the fists attached.

[Rigon]

cool.
you liked transformers but you didn't like hulk?

[chronoplasm]

cool.
you liked transformers but you didn't like hulk?


Ah! How could I forget.

Yeah, I'll the goblin shaman too. That will be fun. :)
It would make for an interesting lower level encounter compared to the others.

Wow. Theres so many ways to explore this idea it's fantastic.

[Rigon]

mode switching boss battles are CLASSIC. end of sentence.
DnD rarely contained such things... as it's about dungeon fodder and dragon slayer.

OH and i intend to use your monsters... is that okay? XD

EDIT: i can't believe i had a typo in "classic"...

[Shadow_Elf]

I too intend to use these when next I DM (which won't be for a few months, so take your time :smallbiggrin:)

[chronoplasm]

OH and i intend to use your monsters... is that okay? XD

If I didn't want you to, I wouldn't put them on the internet.

Go ahead. :smallsmile:

[chronoplasm]

Goblin Iremage- Level 5 Controller
Medium Natural Humanoid
HP 60; Bloodied 30
AC 17; Fortitude 16, Reflex 17, Will 18
Speed 6
Goblin Tactics
Lead from the Rear
Quarterstaff (Standard, At-Will) Weapon
+10 vs. AC; 2d6+4 damage.
Blast of Madness (Standard, At-Will) Fear
Ranged 10; +8 vs. Will, the target is dealt 1d6+4 damage and is pushed two squares.
Muscle Beam (Standard, At-Will)
Ranged 10; the target deals an additional 2 damage on its next attack.

Iremage Wrath (immediate reaction, when an ally is killed, if three other allies died previously during combat)
Goblin Iremage is replaced with Goblin Magebrawler.

Alignment Evil, Languages Common, Goblin
Skills Stealth+10, Thievery+10
STR 10, DEX 15, WIS 13
CON 13, INT 9, CHA 18

I'll have the Magebrawler up a little bit later. :)

[Rigon]

uhumm. looks good... now i have a reappearing villain. which will only appear twice.

[Shadow_Elf]

Goblin Iremage

Nice. Can't wait to see this thing Hulk Up. Its clobberin' time!

[AgentPaper]

I'll go for the knight/lich knight. That just sounds too awesome, and lends itself to storyline pretty well. And yes, it's lich knight, instead of some vampire or other undead. My idea is that the ritual is intended to create liches, and the wizard was using the knight as a test subject, reasoning that he would be easy to deal with once he transformed due to his inexperience with magic. Things go wrong, of course, and the adventurers barge in on them in a way just like the one shown above.

Cue a fight between the party and the knight, as well as the wizard. Wizard stays invisible most of the fight, helping the knight out where he can, and then runs as soon as the party kills the knight or focuses their efforts on him. The knight, who fights to the death, dies one way or another, and turns into a lich. but since he was a knight and not a wizard, he's a lich knight, who uses his magic to power physical attacks instead of spells, and can sneak around pretty well.

Only thing I'm not sure about is the time it takes for the lich knight to manifest when the knight dies. I don't want it to happen instantly, but it could take a few seconds, which would equate to a round. During this round, the wizard takes the cue to run like hell, and probably escapes. (The group still gets xp for fighting him) Then, the knight starts to shudder and dark magical power surges from his forehead over his entire body. His flesh burns with dark flame, and his bones start to animate. His armor melts and becomes infused with dark energy, melting and warping into the dread armor of a lich knight. As another option, the transformation doesn't happen right away, taking 5 minutes or more before the ritual is triggered. 5 minutes gives the party a short rest, allowing encounter powers to recharge and use at least a few healing surges. This breaks the fight into 2 separate encounters, which allows each to be tougher, but also reduces some of the cool factor of the transformation.

[Rigon]

your plot hook has many other plot hooks within them.
what if the stupid wizard sold his own soul to make a lich of the knight? he would need to save the knight so he can sell his soul to make the wizard a lich. and then we would have a wizard and a knight lich supporting each others lichness.

OR imagine how the party enters the wizard's ritual chamber just when a Balor Lord (or something) just lectures the wizard that his soul was already traded away and that if he wanted to repeat the pact with a different target then he would have to get another soul to sell and the soul would have to be willing.
the pure humor of it... really.

[chronoplasm]

OK, now it's time for...

Goblin Magebrawler- Level 5 Brute (Leader)
Large Natural Humanoid
HP 72; Bloodied 36
AC 17; Fortitude 18, Reflex 17, Will 16
Speed 5

Goblin Tactics
Lead from the Rear
Muscle Beam

Magic Punch (Standard, At-Will)
+8 vs. AC; 2d8+4 force damage.

Stealth+10, Thievery+10
STR 18
DEX 15
WIS 9
CON 13
INT 9
CHA 12