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sun_tzu
2008-09-29, 07:19 AM
So, the gaming group I'm in recently started a campaign of Exalted. Seems like a fun game so far, and I'm enjoying my Dawn warrior. After the last session, I used his XP gains to increase his Essence to 3...But now, I'm wondering what to give him next, in particular for defense.

His stats are as follows:

Strength: 4
Dexterity: 5
Stamina: 3 (I'm thinking of increasing it to 4 in the not-too-distant future)

Charisma: 4
Manipulation: 1
Appearance: 4

Perception: 2
Intelligence: 2
Wits: 3

Archery: 2
Martial Arts: 3
Melee: 5 (daiklav specialization: 2)
Thrown: 1
War: 2
Integrity: 3
Presence: 2
Resistance: 3
Athletics: 2
Awareness: 3
Dodge: 3
Ride: 1

Compassion: 3 (a bit unusual for a warrior, I've been told, but I'm not playing a bloodthirsty butcher :smalltongue:)
Conviction: 3
Temperance: 1
Valor: 4
Virtue Flaw: Foolhardy Contempt

Essence: 3
Willpower: 8
Personal Motes: 17
Peripheral Motes: 40 (14 committed)

Resources: 2
Contacts: 2
Allies: 4 (acquired through role-playing - his girlfriend is a Terrestrial, with about as high an Essence score as Terrestrials get. Long story.)
Artifacts: 6 (Orichalcum Great Daiklav, and a Yoroi Rapid-Response Armor given by an ally.)

Great Daiklav: Speed 6, Accuracy +2, Weapon Damage 12L/4, Rate 3, Defense +0, Two-Handed, Overwhelming, Reach
Armor: Soak 8/5, Hardness 3/3, adds 2 to Awareness, allows to see perfectly in (non-complete) dark, adds 2 to stealth, adds 3yards/tick to movement, Adds 1 to strength. 0 Fatigue, -1 Mobility Penalty.

Charms: First Melee Excellency, One Weapon, Two Blows; Peony Blossom Attack; Hungry Tiger Technique; Call the Blade; Dipping Swallow Defense; Ox Body Technique x 2 (-0, -1, -1); Body-Mending Meditation; Integrity-Protecting Prana.


With all of that taken into consideration...I guess I'm mostly trying to figure out what charms and combos to develop. My offense is pretty up there, but I'm worried that my defense is insufficient...

Kyeudo
2008-09-29, 12:16 PM
Get Bulwark Stance and Heavenly Guardian Defense. Every Solar should have a Perfect Defense to fall back on.

If your going to pack around an Orichalcum Grand Daiklave, get Summoning the Loyal Steel so you can keep it Elsewhere. Makes you much less conspicuous.

As for a combo, once you get Heavenly Guardian Defense, combo it with the 1st Melee Excellency, Hungry Tiger Technique, and Peony Blossom Attack. Proceed to chew things up while remaining untouched.

Jerthanis
2008-09-29, 01:03 PM
Get Bulwark Stance and Heavenly Guardian Defense. Every Solar should have a Perfect Defense to fall back on.

If your going to pack around an Orichalcum Grand Daiklave, get Summoning the Loyal Steel so you can keep it Elsewhere. Makes you much less conspicuous.

As for a combo, once you get Heavenly Guardian Defense, combo it with the 1st Melee Excellency, Hungry Tiger Technique, and Peony Blossom Attack. Proceed to chew things up while remaining untouched.

This.

Putting your strongest defense with your strongest attack with an optional extra action charm is the rule of thumb when it comes to combos.

If you have a lot of willpower you MAY wish to get Iron Whirlwind to save on mote costs, but it's not necessary for most characters.

Kyeudo
2008-09-29, 01:18 PM
You may also want to add a few Athletics charms for mobility. Even the more basic Athletics charms opens up worlds of stunt possibilities.

sun_tzu
2008-09-30, 05:30 AM
Get Bulwark Stance and Heavenly Guardian Defense. Every Solar should have a Perfect Defense to fall back on.

If your going to pack around an Orichalcum Grand Daiklave, get Summoning the Loyal Steel so you can keep it Elsewhere. Makes you much less conspicuous.

As for a combo, once you get Heavenly Guardian Defense, combo it with the 1st Melee Excellency, Hungry Tiger Technique, and Peony Blossom Attack. Proceed to chew things up while remaining untouched.
Hm. But wouldn't that leave me open to multiple attacks?


I've also been intending to take the fourth melee excellency. I figured that adding 3 to melee rolls without spending motes would make me untouchable for mooks...

potatocubed
2008-09-30, 07:31 AM
I know that in 1e Hungry Tiger Technique made an excellent combo with (the equivalent of) the First Melee Excellency. I don't know if it works as well in 2e.

Jerthanis
2008-09-30, 01:09 PM
Hm. But wouldn't that leave me open to multiple attacks?

You're only open to multiple attacks in that you may not wish to pay multiple times for Heavenly Guardian Defense. Peony Blossoming only decreases DV by the single highest value of action you take, which is, as far as I know, only ever going to decrease it by 1. You'll only be as open to multiple attacks as you would be if you had attacked once without a charm... which should be enough to withstand most antagonists, and if anyone attacks with their own ludicrous super-combo you've still got HGD to fall back on. As long as you've still got motes to pay for it that will defend you... perfectly.

Something that happened in the previous Exalted session I ran, the Ebon Shadow style Night Caste went up against a Dragonblooded Immaculate. Ebon Shadow style is an armorless style, so when the Dragonblood spent 17 motes and his anima started tearing the area apart, the Night was taking 1 die of damage every tick. The Night was already on his last -2 health level, so he couldn't afford even one point of damage, so he started paying 3m for Seven Shadow Evasion on every tick until the battle concluded. He actually made it, though barely. Perfect defenses aren't the only defenses an Exalt will ever need, but they go a LONG way on their own.

By the way, in the statblock for the Grand Daiklaive, you list it as Acc +2, Def +0, Rate 3. The Material Bonus from Orihalcum should add one to all three values, not just Rate. Unless it's not Orihalcum, or is a homebrewed weapon type, you should have Acc +3, Def +1, Rate 3.

sun_tzu
2008-10-01, 06:43 AM
You're only open to multiple attacks in that you may not wish to pay multiple times for Heavenly Guardian Defense. Peony Blossoming only decreases DV by the single highest value of action you take, which is, as far as I know, only ever going to decrease it by 1. You'll only be as open to multiple attacks as you would be if you had attacked once without a charm... which should be enough to withstand most antagonists, and if anyone attacks with their own ludicrous super-combo you've still got HGD to fall back on. As long as you've still got motes to pay for it that will defend you... perfectly.
OK, I think I'm starting to get it...[has just re-read the combo rules]

Given that, I guess the logical progression would be as follows:
-Get the 4th melee excellency (thus allowing me to cheaply increase my attack and parry multiple times)
-Get Bulwark Stance
-Get Heavenly Guardian Defense
-Get a combo of the 1st Melee Excellency, Hungry Tiger Attack, Peony Blossom Attack and Heavenly Guardian Defense (!)
-Kick even more ass than before.


By the way, in the statblock for the Grand Daiklaive, you list it as Acc +2, Def +0, Rate 3. The Material Bonus from Orihalcum should add one to all three values, not just Rate. Unless it's not Orihalcum, or is a homebrewed weapon type, you should have Acc +3, Def +1, Rate 3.
Eep. You're right.

The Valiant Turtle
2008-10-01, 09:42 AM
I'm arriving a little late to the party here, but first make sure that what you need is more combat capabilities. Depending on the campaign and on the party you may be adequate in that area already (although you probably do at least need more defense).

If your campaign and party just need you to kill things really good, then the suggestions so far are good. I do think you could use either more mobility or better ranged attacks to round out your killing things real good capabilities.

Depending on the campaign you may need to pick up some excellencies in social skills just for social defense. Alternately you may need to build up your War skills for leading an army. What do you want to do other than kill things?

sun_tzu
2008-10-02, 02:18 AM
I noticed something...Combo rules state that if a combo has an extra action charm, it must be used, and the supplemental charms must then be applied to all the actions. So maybe I should first take a version of the combo that doesn't have Peony Blossom Attack...

Jerthanis
2008-10-02, 03:26 AM
I noticed something...Combo rules state that if a combo has an extra action charm, it must be used, and the supplemental charms must then be applied to all the actions. So maybe I should first take a version of the combo that doesn't have Peony Blossom Attack...

*Rereads charm guidelines* Well, I guess this proves you learn something new every day. It's a valid concern, but I wouldn't be willing to pay for two copies of my awesome combo when I could be buying a whole other charm with that experience. You might find you've got the XP to burn, and not wasting motes can easily be worth it.



Depending on the campaign you may need to pick up some excellencies in social skills just for social defense. Alternately you may need to build up your War skills for leading an army. What do you want to do other than kill things?

While this is true, it's clear Social Dodging is his social defense, which is already going to be VERY high for a low XP exalt thanks to his huge Willpower and 3 Integrity. I've made Social-oriented characters who didn't start with more than a 7 MDV.

The advice about Athletics/Mobility charms is good though. To me, an Exalt just isn't an Exalt without Monkey Leap.

BobVosh
2008-10-02, 05:27 AM
3 thoughts:

You may want to put Exalted 2nd ed in your titles


Allies: 4 (acquired through role-playing - his girlfriend is a Terrestrial, with about as high an Essence score as Terrestrials get. Long story.)

Isn't she a party member? Why is she an ally background?

More over, not really a "long story," seems more like a "ST's GF, have some silly awesome to go with the crap base that they always, ALWAYS pick." Not that dragon bloods are bad, but when with solars/sidereals it is just silly. Even lunars have problems with those two.


Artifacts: 6 (Orichalcum Great Daiklav, and a Yoroi Rapid-Response Armor given by an ally.)

Shouldn't that be two counts of artifacts 3?

sun_tzu
2008-10-02, 06:08 AM
Isn't she a party member? Why is she an ally background?
She's an NPC we encountered and helped early on.


More over, not really a "long story," seems more like a "ST's GF, have some silly awesome to go with the crap base that they always, ALWAYS pick." Not that dragon bloods are bad, but when with solars/sidereals it is just silly. Even lunars have problems with those two.
Well, she actually hadn't exalted yet when we met her, but the elemental wood dragon in charge of protecting her family ended up merging with her in an emergency when a party member tried to kill her brother...


Shouldn't that be two counts of artifacts 3?
Yes.:smalltongue:


I've been thinking...Maybe the correct order of things would be as follows:
-get Fourth Excellency
-get 1st excellency/Hungry Tiger combo for immediate butt-kicking needs
-get Bulwark Stance and HGD
-get ultimate combo of buttkickery.

Kyeudo
2008-10-02, 09:36 AM
I've been thinking...Maybe the correct order of things would be as follows:
-get Fourth Excellency
-get 1st excellency/Hungry Tiger combo for immediate butt-kicking needs
-get Bulwark Stance and HGD
-get ultimate combo of buttkickery.

It's the Third Excellency, not the fourth. Only Sidereals have a Fourth Excellency.

Also, you don't seem to understand the logic of combos. When you use them, you EXPECT that they will cost a truckload and a half of motes. If your anima doesn't flare to the iconic level, you're using a really cheap combo.

If you are worried about mote cost through, look at it this way: Sticking Peony Blossom Attack in there will cost some extra motes, but nothing says you have to activate it more than once, so 2 motes is all you're out if you only want to make one attack. Hungry Tiger Technique is your only supplemental charm, and it costs 1 mote. The other charms are reflexive, so nothing to be worried about.

I don't see why you care though. You use a combo when you see an opening and you are going to try and kill your opponent. You'll want multiple attacks to try it with.

sun_tzu
2008-10-02, 10:37 AM
It's the Third Excellency, not the fourth. Only Sidereals have a Fourth Excellency.

Are you talking about 1st edition? Because my 2e rulebook clearly has a fourth and fifth excellency for Solars...

Jerthanis
2008-10-02, 12:42 PM
It's the Third Excellency, not the fourth. Only Sidereals have a Fourth Excellency.

He's referring to Infinite Melee Mastery, the charm that requires an excellency and reduces mote costs for activations of other excellencies in the same ability. It isn't generally referred to as a "fourth excellency", but I'm not entirely clear why it isn't.

And yes, Sun_tzu, that is the order of operations. Buying Infinite Melee Mastery is like buying three more dots in melee for 8 experience. A combo of Hungry Tiger and 1st Melee will cost you 3 experience points... paying 4m for a 21 dice attack that counts successes twice after DV is subtracted puts you firmly in the "no mortal threat in the world can phase you" territory... which is always a fun place to be in Exalted.

However, it is worth noting that you may already be 15 steps ahead of your allies, and could stand to step back on combat a bit. You should discuss it with your ST and get eir opinion.

Kyeudo
2008-10-02, 12:56 PM
Are you talking about 1st edition? Because my 2e rulebook clearly has a fourth and fifth excellency for Solars...

Those arn't Excellencies. Those are just charms that build on Excellencies. Excellencies all have "Excellency" in the title.

1st edition didn't even have Excellencies. It had about 25 differently named dice adders.

sun_tzu
2008-10-03, 01:21 AM
Those arn't Excellencies. Those are just charms that build on Excellencies. Excellencies all have "Excellency" in the title.

Point conceeded.


However, it is worth noting that you may already be 15 steps ahead of your allies, and could stand to step back on combat a bit. You should discuss it with your ST and get eir opinion.
Hm. Well, our group has another Dawn and a Lunar Full-Moon who are also pretty badass...Yeah, consulting with the GM Storyteller would probably be a good idea.

nargbop
2008-10-03, 09:04 AM
The melee excellencies are VERY important, because they allow you to increase your parry DV as well as your attack rolls very cheaply. Thus, take the first, fourth, and fifth excellencies.

If I'm not mistaken, you've spent some points on extra virtues ; it's a good idea to get your two primary virtues high during character creation b/c that translates to higher Willpower and higher Essence. But three virtues? You'll be very conflicted. One of my friends played with a four-high-Virtue character once, and broke his limit almost every session. It got old quickly.

Make sure you have a perfect defense. I like Seven Shadow Evasion best, but maybe another one is better for your character. You will be very sad if your character dies to an optimized attacker enemy.

That being said, optimize an attack. Plan ahead for a melee combo that will do as much damage as possible. You probably won't be able to afford it during character creation.

Jerthanis
2008-10-03, 12:36 PM
The melee excellencies are VERY important, because they allow you to increase your parry DV as well as your attack rolls very cheaply. Thus, take the first, fourth, and fifth excellencies.

Infinite Ability Mastery and Ability Essence Flow are noncompatable, so 99.9% of the time you should choose one or the other and always use that one. 75% of that 99.9% of time, you should choose IAM, because AEF requires essence 4, delaying your opportunity to get it, and it goes through motes like water. It's useful for Social Skills, because you don't want to be blowing Willpower on Social combos left and right, since willpower points are social health levels. Also, social attacks usually don't benefit from a lot of threshold. In combat you're probably going to be looking for mote efficiency so you don't run out before your opponent.

If your party is two Dawns and a Full Moon, it's probably a very combat heavy game and having Combos to cleave Juggernaut in twain probably won't go amiss, but don't take my word for it, communication with STers is always good.

Tengu_temp
2008-10-03, 08:02 PM
If I'm not mistaken, you've spent some points on extra virtues ; it's a good idea to get your two primary virtues high during character creation b/c that translates to higher Willpower and higher Essence. But three virtues? You'll be very conflicted. One of my friends played with a four-high-Virtue character once, and broke his limit almost every session. It got old quickly.


That depends on the game you are (some STs are stricter than others in judging when should you roll for limit), and on how powerful you are - in general, you accumulate limit when something you regret happens (with the exception of Valor). Very powerful Exalted change the world, not the other way around, and therefore roll for limit less often.

Fax Celestis
2008-10-03, 08:08 PM
Athletics to get Monkey Leap, since that charm is ridiculous. Dex + Ath *10 in yards, IIRC. Also, Glorious Crane Stance is terrific. "I balance on the ballista bolt as it fires and surf it to my foe."

sun_tzu
2008-11-03, 07:14 AM
Well, after some delays, finally had another session. Went pretty well - I managed to pull my first 3-dice stunt (which allowed me to one-shot a cataphract. Well, technically it wasn't my attack that killed him so much as the ensuing fall after my attack knocked him off his gryphon, but...), the party has managed to hijack several enemy warstriders (I'm not one of the pilots), and my Grand Daiklav has been replaced by a Grand Daiklav of Conquest (which is kinda useful, given that we are now in the middle of a war). Had a pretty interesting fight with an experienced dragon-blooded with whom I am looking forward to have a rematch (he spent practically all his motes and willpower on perfect defenses before he had to run away...did manage to injure me a bit, though).
Concerning the weird stats for the daiklav...Apparently, we're not using the stats from the main book, but from the Armorium. For a Grand Daiklav, that means less speed, less accuracy, less defense, and no Piercing tag.

Re: character progression: Since it hadn't come into play before that, I shifted the 2nd Archery into a 3rd War point. I've used the XP to get Infinite Melee Mastery, and the first dot in Lore (not trying to turn the character into a scholar - just figure that at this point, he's going to need to know how to read and write). Need to decide on what to get next - a Peony Blossom-First Excellency combo is suddenly looking really good, thanks to Infinite Melee Mastery. To my surprise, I'm finding myself considering a Presence Excellency, since a following charm can turn my attacks Holy...
Still need to think about perfect defense and Essence 4, though (since Essence 4 + Infinite Melee Mastery is looking like pretty damn powerful).
The GM mentioned that we're going to be running this local realm, so stuff like War, Presence and Bureaucracy ought to be considered (don't really see my character getting Bureaucracy, but I've got a few dots in War and Presence...)

graymachine
2008-11-03, 12:05 PM
...and my Grand Daiklave has been replaced by a Grand Daiklave of Conquest ...

fixed.

Also, I would say, in regards to the OP, the best thing you can do is ask your storyteller what mad, rabid fever-dream drove him to run 2nd Edition. After you and him come to terms, convert to 1st edition using Sol Invictus, and game happily every after. :smallbiggrin:

Artanis
2008-11-03, 02:23 PM
fixed.

Also, I would say, in regards to the OP, the best thing you can do is ask your storyteller what mad, rabid fever-dream drove him to run 2nd Edition. After you and him come to terms, convert to 1st edition using Sol Invictus, and game happily every after. :smallbiggrin:
I think 2nd edition's mechanics are better than 1st edition's, TBH. But then, I might've been spoiled by 2nd edition's mechanics giving pretty much the same probabilities, but without the insane initiative rules and everything related to them.

Jerthanis
2008-11-03, 03:07 PM
fixed.

Also, I would say, in regards to the OP, the best thing you can do is ask your storyteller what mad, rabid fever-dream drove him to run 2nd Edition. After you and him come to terms, convert to 1st edition using Sol Invictus, and game happily every after. :smallbiggrin:

I'm sure their Full Moon Lunar will like that, since 1st edition Lunars were basically garbage and 2nd edition Lunars are some of the most interesting of the bunch, both mechanics-wise and flavor-wise.

I think 2nd edition is far and away better than 1st edition and can't think of a single reason to recommend 1st over 2nd. What's so much better about it Graymachine?

Poison_Fish
2008-11-03, 04:46 PM
My reasoning for running 1E instead of 2E is mostly on convenience. The game I'm currently running has been running in 1E before most of 2E came out. So, converting didn't feel like a good option. Also most of what I own is in 1E.

I'll switch eventually.

sun_tzu
2008-12-27, 03:44 PM
So, finally had our next session.
I ended up buying a 1st Melee Excellency-Peony Blosson Attack combo. It proved very useful, allowing me to curbstomp a foe who had previously stalemated me, and barely win against a guy who was clearly his superior.
We won our war, liberating our city-State from an invading Realm legion, and possibly making an ally out of one of the Realm's dragon-blooded officers (one who happens to know the Roseblack, which is looking like a plot hook). I'm investing in a single Lore dot, which leaves me with four XP.
I'm thinking of making my next investment the fourth Essence dot. Expensive, but I could use the extra motes...and, combined with my combo, it would me a beast in melee.