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View Full Version : [3.5] Tricking out Trickery Devotion



Darrin
2008-09-29, 08:16 AM
First things first... Trickery Devotion has got to be one of the most poorly thought-out and klunky feats I've ever seen (worse than Monkey Grip, even). That being said... this whole idea of a duplicate intrigues me, and at 15th level, the duplicate becomes real enough to take combat actions. So... I've got gut feeling that you can do something interesting with this, but I haven't quite figured out what yet. Any ideas?

Something else I was confused about... unseen servant doesn't threaten or provide flanking, but I'm I little fuzzy on minor image illusions... if an opponent fails to notice it's an illusion, do they treat it as if it threatens/flanks?

The duplicate gains phantom versions of all your weapons and equipment, but I'm not sure about magic items/effects... are the phantom versions just normal items, or are they duplicate magic items? Could your duplicate the phantom version of a wand or read a scroll, leaving your original items intact and unused? What about magic items with uses per day, like a pearl of power or circlet of blasting?

Does the duplicate have access to your feats, such as Power Attack? What about feats with a number of uses per day, such as Sudden Maximize another devotion feat?

"Combat actions" is poorly defined, but one of the first things that came to mind was ToB maneuvers. Does your duplicate have an identical set of readied maneuvers that can be expended independent of your original character? Can you and your duplicate trade WRT back and forth? What about stances, such as Island of Blades, or Rising Phoenix?

As for Psionics, I assume the duplicate would still use your original power points, since that would seem similar to casting a spell, and the feat description does say something about using the duplicate to cast spells... although it's not entirely clear about it. It sounds like the duplicate doesn't get its own set of spells, it would expend whatever spells the original character had left, so likewise psionics.

How about soulmelds? Does the duplicate have its own essence pool?

Anything wacky you can do with a Binder, maybe? Or how about a Hellfire Warlock... is not having a Con score the same as being immune to Con damage?

Can a duplicate use auras (Dragon Shamon or Marshall)? Can a duplicate Marshall grant move actions?

How about if I'm a ranger with distracting strike... can my duplicate render a target flat-footed for my original character?

The duplicate has HPs, can I drain it for temp HPs (vampiric touch) or use Crusader strikes against it to heal myself?

If my duplicate draws the Donjon from a Deck of Many Things, who gets imprisoned?

If my character and the top-heavy serving wench are getting cuddly and all of a sudden the duplicate shows up with a pizza-- ok, let's not go there.

Sinfire Titan
2008-09-29, 09:17 AM
Trickery Devotion is one of the most easily abused Domain feats there is (its a mini-Astral Projection, for those who haven't figured out the abuses yet). Because of this, it is vastly superior to Monkey Grip (though if you meant it was poorly balanced, then I agree). Anything that happens to the clone does not happen to you unless you are in the effect's area.

I'll answer your questions as best as I can.


Something else I was confused about... unseen servant doesn't threaten or provide flanking, but I'm I little fuzzy on minor image illusions... if an opponent fails to notice it's an illusion, do they treat it as if it threatens/flanks?

Not until it gains the ability to attack for you. When that happens, it doesn't matter if they recognize it as an illusion, its still able to threaten them.


The duplicate gains phantom versions of all your weapons and equipment, but I'm not sure about magic items/effects... are the phantom versions just normal items, or are they duplicate magic items? Could your duplicate the phantom version of a wand or read a scroll, leaving your original items intact and unused? What about magic items with uses per day, like a pearl of power or circlet of blasting?

They are exact duplicates, including all daily uses and similar. Because the clone cannot cast spells of its own, I do not recommend using it with Pearls of Power. Its best suited to Weapon Finesse builds, such as a Daring Outlaw with Shadow Blade (as this ignores the Str penalty).


Does the duplicate have access to your feats, such as Power Attack? What about feats with a number of uses per day, such as Sudden Maximize another devotion feat?

Power Attack is only usable by the clone if its modified Str score would be 13 or better. You may use other devotion feats and the Sudden feats as well, but those are drawn from your daily uses instead (same thing with spells, you are using an SLA to cast an effect, and thus have to use the effect yourself).


"Combat actions" is poorly defined, but one of the first things that came to mind was ToB maneuvers. Does your duplicate have an identical set of readied maneuvers that can be expended independent of your original character? Can you and your duplicate trade WRT back and forth? What about stances, such as Island of Blades, or Rising Phoenix?


Yes. This is one of the many reasons the feat is incredibly broken. You need to direct it as such to target you with the maneuver to abuse WRT.


As for Psionics, I assume the duplicate would still use your original power points, since that would seem similar to casting a spell, and the feat description does say something about using the duplicate to cast spells... although it's not entirely clear about it. It sounds like the duplicate doesn't get its own set of spells, it would expend whatever spells the original character had left, so likewise psionics.

That would be covered in the Psionic/Magic transparency rules.


How about soulmelds? Does the duplicate have its own essentia pool?


Fixed, and yes.


Anything wacky you can do with a Binder, maybe? Or how about a Hellfire Warlock... is not having a Con score the same as being immune to Con damage?

Hellfire Invocation specifically states it cannot be used if you do not have a Con score.


Can a duplicate use auras (Dragon Shamon or Marshall)? Can a duplicate Marshall grant move actions?

Yes to both (more broken ensues).


The duplicate has HPs, can I drain it for temp HPs (vampiric touch) or use Crusader strikes against it to heal myself?

For Crusader Strikes, you cannot drain it yourself (as it would not pose a threat to you when you are attacking it, due to it not being able to attack back). If you have an allied Crusader, then he can do it for you. But you can use Vamp Touch to gain HP.


If my duplicate draws the Donjon from a Deck of Many Things, who gets imprisoned?

DM's choice, but by RAW I'd say the clone. Although that just makes the DoMT even worse for the campaign than before.