Damage Output (and general advice) - Is this ok or just to small?

[Fawsto]

Sup guys, me again.

Well, a few weeks ago I opened a thread about a Paladin // Warmage concept I was trying to pull out. Well, I decided, in the end, to go for a Paladin // Sorcerer (Battle-Sorcerer variant) focused on self-bufin and flashy spells while wearing armor. This guy is not meant to go optimized, since it will be running on a Gestalt Campaign (obviously) and thus a common agreement in my table is that we shall not optimize on such situations, just brew the concept we want from one of the 210 possible combinations (there are much more, but I am using this number) around.

Now, this character is using "Fist of Stone" as his signature spell, making him a 20 str first level character for 1 minute (I like the flavor of this spell, seriously), so basic strategy here is: Run around bashing stuff with 20 str and PA. This gives me the concept of "burst limit" or "semi-nova", also known as "now I am serious" mode. Also I am running a Falchion (not as ridiculously shown on PH, but as a Gross Messer)...

So this brings us to the purpose of this thread:

Talking about level 1, 2d4 + 9 (Fist of stone strg increase and PA) at a + 5 to hit is good enough?

And lets advance to level 6 where I intend to have true strike, charging smite and arcane strike to deal a single one hit bash representing the best ability uses I can burn at a single time against the "Boss":

2d4 (Falchion) + 2d4 (arcane strike burning a lvl 2 spell) + 37 (Power attack + Charging Smite + Strenght) at a + 32 to hit with 18-20 x2 crit range, is good enough? I fear that I am lacking power, but since this one is not optimized, is it still enough to hold on? Note that this trick requires 2 rounds to go for it, something that looks cool IMO since it looks like "Charging" (like "I'ma Chargin' Ma Lazors!!", got it? Joking)


Well, thanks for the attention in advance,

-Faws

[Moriato]

Wait, are you trying to use some of the bonus from true strike to your power attack? Because that's no good. You can only power attack up to your base attack.

[Fawsto]

nope, I am only at the -6 from my BAB. Extra damage is due to 2handing the falch and charging smite (that deals a lot more damage from smite evil).

The True strike is there to cover the penalty from the PA and adding sureness to the hit.

[arguskos]

I'll go out on a limb and say that yeah, a +37 atk and 2d4+2d4+37 dmg on round 2 of combat is MORE than sufficient at level 2. In fact, that's rather impressive for a non-optimized character... (for reference, the best I've seen my current party deal is the Duskblade at level 3, who managed in one round to deal 1d10+3+6d6 [dwarven waraxe, Str bonus, shocking grasp, blade of blood using 5 life to power]. His average is 28.5 damage. Yours is 42. Just sayin'.)

-argus

[Moriato]

Ahh, 2 hander, yeah my math was off. Anyway, you might want to consider this:


Leap Attack

You can combine a powerful charge and a mighty leap into one devastating attack.

Prerequisites: Jump 8 ranks, Power Attack.

Benefit: You can combine a jump with a charge against an opponent. If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump, and you end your jump in a square from which you threaten your target, you can double the extra damage dealt by your use of the Power Attack feat. If you use this tactic with a two-handed weapon, you instead triple the extra damage from Power Attack.

If I'm not mistaken that would add an extra... 24 dmg? More as your power attack improved

[Starbuck_II]

So this brings us to the purpose of this thread:

Talking about level 1, 2d4 + 9 (Fist of stone strg increase and PA) at a + 5 to hit is good enough?


So 20 Str from Fist of Stone (normally 14 Str?)Note Fist of Stone Strength bonus applies to hit not damage unless using fist as weapon (then 1.5 Str damage bonus).

So 2d4 +2 Power Attack (if PA for 1 2 handed) +2 Str Bonus damage= 2d4 +4 Str I thought.
You can't add the spells Str bonus to damage with a manufactored weapon only Slams get it.

[Fawsto]

@ arguskos

Hehe, at level 2 that would be funny, but now, that part will only happen at level 6.

@ Starbuck II

I doublechecked, it says "you transform one of your hands into a mighty fist of living stone, gaining a + 6 enhancement bonus to strenght for purposes of attacks, grapple checks, or breaking and crushing items. In addition you gain the ability to make one natural slam attack...". Since Bull's Strength states that "The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, adding the usual benefits to melee attack rolls, melee damage rolls, and other uses of the Strength modifier".

I think it is a valid interpretation to think that the bonus is not linked to slam attacks (or the slam attack), but rather any attack. But you gain a natural slam attack, though. So yeah, this is like Bull's Strenght on steroids for a shorter duration and only one of your arms.

@ Moriato

I'd love to do this but Jump isn't a class skill for neither the Paladin nor the Sorcerer. BIG SHAME! However I am open to the Tatical Feat "Awesome Smite" from Complete Cheddar, I mean, Cheese, sorry, Champion. Adding this to the fact that this character is going full 10 levels of Gray Guard, this means that I am smiting ANYTHING on may way.

[TheThan]

I'll go out on a limb and say that yeah, a +37 atk and 2d4+2d4+37 dmg on round 2 of combat is MORE than sufficient at level 2. In fact, that's rather impressive for a non-optimized character... (for reference, the best I've seen my current party deal is the Duskblade at level 3, who managed in one round to deal 1d10+3+6d6 [dwarven waraxe, Str bonus, shocking grasp, blade of blood using 5 life to power]. His average is 28.5 damage. Yours is 42. Just sayin'.)

-argus

I had a duskblade dish out 30ish damage on a charge vs a troll, at 2nd level. (18 str, PA, true strike, shocking grasp, great sword critical hit, nearly max damage on the dice). I got rended to death the next round, but i gave as good as i got.

[insecure]

I'll go out on a limb and say that yeah, a +37 atk and 2d4+2d4+37 dmg on round 2 of combat is MORE than sufficient at level 2. In fact, that's rather impressive for a non-optimized character... (for reference, the best I've seen my current party deal is the Duskblade at level 3, who managed in one round to deal 1d10+3+6d6 [dwarven waraxe, Str bonus, shocking grasp, blade of blood using 5 life to power]. His average is 28.5 damage. Yours is 42. Just sayin'.)

-argus

That reminds me of the fighter in my group. He's actually the most powerful character, and the druid the least. And, in fact, our wizard is almost as useless as the druid. And yes, this is 3.5E. Just came to think about how things turns out sometimes.:smallwink:
But, I'll also add that no one in our group is optimized, and we're about six persons, with the DM being the seventh, so it's probably a good thing.:smallconfused:

[Fawsto]

Stoping to think about another stuff...

And whirling blade + smite evil (not charging) means Smite evil in a 60ft line. What would be like, very cool. And, somehow, betterfor my character than the classic Lighting Bolt.

The spell itself says that you make a normal melee attack against every enemy in a 60ft line, meaning a possible smite and power attack.

[ocato]

Don't forget that as a paladin you'll get a trusty mount who can fight with you/shares your buffs! Think Miko's horse (windstrider?) kicking people with his true strike shocking hooves or giving you flanks. You might decide that a Lance and Spirited Charge are worth grabbing once you get your trusty mount. While not a constant, the ability to start a fight with a big mounted charge +all that damage you're doing will be a good way to start a big boss or challenge fight.

You might also consider a devotion feat or two from Complete Champion. While the cheese varies depending on what you pick, Good (1 DR/evil +1/5 levels for you and your friends for a minute per day) and law (+3 sacred boost to either AC or attack power, can switch between each round. Ups to +5 at L10 and +7 at L15 and lasts a minute) are good 1/day abilities that won't break the game but will allow you some non-spell-slot sucking utility/backup buffs that might change the course of a battle.

[Paul H]

Hi

Actually - what about this build....

Swashbuckler 3/Warmage 4. Int 18 Cha 22

Casts Blades of Fire (Swift), then Whirling Blade (Std) on his Dagger:

Dam D4+4 (Insightful Strike) + D6+4 Fire (BoF+Edge), +6 (Cha)
That's:
Attack +11 in 60' Line (M/c Dagger)
Dam D6+D4+14

Not bad for 7th lvl character! :smallbiggrin:

Cheers
Paul H

[Fawsto]

But now, seriously, I need a conclusive aproach here... Does this guy can really kick enought ass trough level 1 to 6?

[Chineselegolas]

@ Starbuck II

I doublechecked, it says "you transform one of your hands into a mighty fist of living stone, gaining a + 6 enhancement bonus to strenght for purposes of attacks, grapple checks, or breaking and crushing items. In addition you gain the ability to make one natural slam attack...". Since Bull's Strength states that "The spell grants a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, adding the usual benefits to melee attack rolls, melee damage rolls, and other uses of the Strength modifier".

I think it is a valid interpretation to think that the bonus is not linked to slam attacks (or the slam attack), but rather any attack. But you gain a natural slam attack, though. So yeah, this is like Bull's Strenght on steroids for a shorter duration and only one of your arms.
I have to say I think Starbuck II is right here. The Fist of Stone specifically lists a limited selection of things affected by the strength bonus including attack rolls, but not listing damage rolls, while Bull's Strength leaves what it affects open to 'does it use strength'

But even so, still a decent output. Why not go with a Glaive with is lovely reach. As a spellcaster (Even if that is just for buffing), having a way to fight while staying back so you can cast without provoking if need be is useful.

[mabriss lethe]

yeah, i'd say he's packing quite a wallop for a low level character.

as an added bonus to using Devotion feats, once you hit 4th level, they stop being 1/day since you can channel your turning attempts into them.