Is Elan actually faking his stupidity? (Spoilers 597#)

[Charles Phipps]

It's starting to occur to me that Elan may be dumb as a post, but it might be rationale that he exaggerates it to a certain degree. I actually don't believe he was entirely unaware in Comic 597# for example. Instead, it seems more likely, he's just deflating V.

[Lord_Butters_I]

It's possible to be dumb and know it. For example, I'm a total hypochondriac but I'm aware of it.

[DraPrime]

Or Elan just hasn't changed and is still an absolute idiot. Or it was just poor writing on the Giant's part since he made Elan witty in the last comic, and stupid in this one.

[WarriorTribble]

I agree with this (though imo I think the Giant doesn't). I mean even the dumbest person should know they're being threatened when a wizard is blaring power from their hands with a menacing tone of voice. He might not have understood Vaarsuvius's rationale, but he shouldn't have been so calm, unless he was faking it.

[Greep]

Or Elan just hasn't changed and is still an absolute idiot. Or it was just poor writing on the Giant's part since he made Elan witty in the last comic, and stupid in this one.

Pfft. I'm considered overall smart but do some REALLY stupid things (*annoyedly uses window roller* *WHY WON'T THE DOOR OPEN!!!*). Not poor writing at all.

[Charles Phipps]

My main issue is that Elan is a Bard.

Social interactions are their thing.

[Cleverdan22]

No, he was not faking it. Elan is still our lovable moron, and Rich wanted to remind us of that when he made the comic. The end.

[tyckspoon]

My main issue is that Elan is a Bard.

Social interactions are their thing.

Convincing other people to go along with them is their thing, to be exact. Sense Motive isn't the same skill as Diplomacy, and although you would think the two would be related (or at least grant synergy) you don't need any of one to be good at the other.

[Vulion]

I don't think it was Elan acting dumb, I believe it was our lovable idiot just not comprehending that his ally and friend would want to harm him.

[drengnikrafe]

I think Elan (much like Belkar, back when he was supposed to track Trigak) has actually failed to connect Event A and Threat B. These things can happen. I even have a story about myself.... You see, I (and many of my friends) consider me something of a genius (beside the point), in any case, we were talking about Organic Chemistry, and, seeing one of the equations, accused "so, if Carbon sits alone, it's actually an Alkyne!?"
...
There was an awkward silence...
...
Followed by "(insert my name here)... if it sits alone, there's nothing for it to bond to, so no."
"But.... .But......."
No amount of arguing could get me out of that one. Simple logic to everyone else in the class, but I couldn't connect obvious point A to obvious point B.

Sorry, since that's totally irrelevent, but what I'm saying is, no matter how smart, or charasmatic, or wise the person, they can still fail to connect two points that are obvious to everyone else. It's just a bad wisdom (common sense) check, more or less.


My thoughts? Elan didn't get it, but not due to extreme foolishness, but more to an unlucky roll.

[SPoD]

I think Elan is getting smarter, but this direct event runs afoul of his second most prevalent character trait: inherent optimism.

Smacked in the face with evidence that a close friend--one he once respected enough to dress up as a wizard to be more like--would threaten his life, he assumes he must be interpreting it wrong. V's words couldn't POSSIBLY mean what he thinks they mean, right? He must be getting it wrong.

That does happen a lot to him, after all; it's easy to picture that by this stage of his life, if something doesn't make sense to him, he would think that it would be more likely to be because he knows that he is an idiot than because it doesn't actually make sense. He's so accustomed to being wrong that he just assumes that he's wrong on his first impression, and then struggles to find an alternate interpretation.

[LordOfNarf]

I think the stupidity is a reminder that even though Elan is now showing some level of competence and a developing maturity level, he is still, under that fancy prestige class, the same old silly Elan he has always been.

[Charles Phipps]

I think the stupidity is a reminder that even though Elan is now showing some level of competence and a developing maturity level, he is still, under that fancy prestige class, the same old silly Elan he has always been.

I hope not.

I find new Elan infinitely more interesting.

[Oracle_Hunter]

As I said in the other thread, I think this is a case of Obfuscating Stupidity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingStupidity) to head off V from doing something ey would regret.

And possibly Elan too, what with the disintergrating and the hurting and the oh my (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlemqwa8sph9eh4)!

[David Argall]

We are still a comedy here people, and verbal misunderstandings are routine elements of such. Any character is subject to such, and the more obvious this is to the viewer, the better. So Elan is honestly confused here.

[FujinAkari]

As I said in the other thread, I think this is a case of Obfuscating Stupidity (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObfuscatingStupidity) to head off V from doing something ey would regret.

And possibly Elan too, what with the disintergrating and the hurting and the oh my (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlemqwa8sph9eh4)!

Can we please quit quoting TV Tropes? Its getting a bit old X_x

[Charles Phipps]

Can we please quit quoting TV Tropes? Its getting a bit old X_x

TV tropes are awesome.

However, it's a bit like people carting around a dictionary.

Most of us know the tropes being quoted.

[Gez]

Elan is a bard. Acting is a perform skill. You do the math.

[pendell]

I think what's trying to communicate is that Elan is *growing* as a character, but has not yet grown up. He is more mature and heroic than he was in the first 100 strips, but there's still enough of silly Elan to set us up for moments of Epic Fail. '

I don't believe Elan is faking it. I think Elan, for all his goofy charmingness, really has a hard time understanding other people. He didn't pick up on the fact that Haley liked him until Haley told him to his face. He didn't pick up on the fact Roy nearly abandoned him in the forest to Brigands. He doesn't seem to have picked up on the fact that Belkar is a psychotic murderer, despite Belkar trying to kill him for XP. He didn't pick up on the fact that Therkla is NOT a good-guy superheroine, but a ninja who is on the villain's team. And he doesn't seem to get just how on edge that V is.

Elan is a sweet, charming character with a goofy childishness who is maturing into a real action hero, but when it comes to understanding *other people* he seems totally at sea. Is it possible to have negative ranks in Sense Motive? 'Cause that seems to be completely in character for Elan.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Underground]

I really think he's indeed using his stupidity intentionally, i.e. he's totally understanding whats going on, but knows he can easily get away with pretending ignorance.


It's possible to be dumb and know it. For example, I'm a total hypochondriac but I'm aware of it. Its normal for Hypochonders to know they are that. Fear is never really rational. And Fear isnt the same as Stupidity.

[FatJose]

Maybe because of his denseness and trusting nature, he couldn't even piece together that V. a long time companion and fellow Sticker, was threatening to kill him.

[Kaytara]

I don't believe Elan is faking it. I think Elan, for all his goofy charmingness, really has a hard time understanding other people.

I agree 100%. Elan has been shown to be clueless when any other person would've long guessed it. "I'm in love with you...keleles." "Haley, if you don't want me to tell Elan how you feel about him, just say so." Et cetera...
It's somewhat ironic that, for all of his supposedly moderate Wisdom score, it's Vaarsuvius who's most intuitive about understanding other people.

I'll add that Elan hasn't every been shown to be good at concealing his feelings. He's very expressive and emotional. If he'd realised that Vaarsuvius was actually, seriously threatening to kill him - and come ON, this is VAARSUVIUS we're talking about, it was creepy just to read the comic, imagine you're standing right in front of that elf! - anyway, if Elan had realised his good old friend was threatening him, I believe he would have freaked out, both out of fear and out of concern for V. The fact that he is shown to be so perfectly calm and nonchalant in those last couple of panels probably indicates he had no idea what V was trying to pull there.
Deliberately faking incomprehension in a calculated effort to defuse the situation requires a basic level of rationale and, well, calculativeness that simply is far out of Elan's league.

[Fred Fumblrol]

Perhaps when Elan is actively using his Dashing Swordsman class skills, he can apply his Charisma bonus to other abilities besides strength.
Such as having a flash of brilliance here, a sudden insight there.
Needless to say, the effects would wear off quickly.

[Twilight Jack]

Personally, I think Elan is honestly confused here, but not because he doesn't perceive V's threat. Remember, Elan is the true optimist of the team. He believes deeply in his teammates and friends. He's confused by V's meaning because his mind summarily rejected the only plausible interpretation. "Vaarsuvius is my FRIEND, therefore he COULDN'T be threatening me." It's likely that Elan's conscious mind never even processed that possibility. It was rejected by his subconscious before the thought had time to form.

Having rejected that interpretation as flatly impossible, Elan is left without any other way to understand what V is saying. Hence, honest confusion.

[San Diablo]

I agree 100%. Elan has been shown to be clueless when any other person would've long guessed it. "I'm in love with you...keleles." "Haley, if you don't want me to tell Elan how you feel about him, just say so." Et cetera...
It's somewhat ironic that, for all of his supposedly moderate Wisdom score, it's Vaarsuvius who's most intuitive about understanding other people.


I've long held the opinion that a low Wisdom score isn't as dangerous as a significant gulf between Wisdom and Intelligence. It doesn't matter how "moderate" V's Wisdom is if V's Intelligence has been ratcheted up to being able to see the big picture. Without a similarly high Wisdom, the perspective's still lost.



I'll add that Elan hasn't every been shown to be good at concealing his feelings. He's very expressive and emotional. If he'd realised that Vaarsuvius was actually, seriously threatening to kill him - and come ON, this is VAARSUVIUS we're talking about, it was creepy just to read the comic, imagine you're standing right in front of that elf! - anyway, if Elan had realised his good old friend was threatening him, I believe he would have freaked out, both out of fear and out of concern for V. The fact that he is shown to be so perfectly calm and nonchalant in those last couple of panels probably indicates he had no idea what V was trying to pull there.
Deliberately faking incomprehension in a calculated effort to defuse the situation requires a basic level of rationale and, well, calculativeness that simply is far out of Elan's league.

Moreover, if Elan had realized it, and were faking a response, he'd probably have realized that the best response would probably have been to freak out. The only things that get through to V are humiliation (being turned into a lizard, mistreated by V's familiar, blowing up Iron Mage, being told point blank that V's understanding of the universe is fundamentally flawed), and being shown absolute proof of the consequences V's behavior has on others (Roy showing V down at their initial meeting, Haley showing V that V had hurt Elan unwittingly). Feigning stupidity doesn't save Elan's life, it just forestalls the inevitable confrontation between the exact same people for the exact same reasons. Freaking out would have probably had a similar effect, but may also have gotten V's attention in a way that illusory Belkar did not.

Finally, it's worth noting that neither V nor Elan have ever been shown to be particularly inclined to, or good at, lying.

[eyeofsaulot]

The miscommunication can't be completely Elan's fault. After all, Intimidate is a Charisma based skill and V has a very low Charisma.

[Morty]

Can we please quit quoting TV Tropes? Its getting a bit old X_x

Thank God, I'm not alone. It's not getting old, it's already dead an in process of being animated.

[Kaytara]

I've long held the opinion that a low Wisdom score isn't as dangerous as a significant gulf between Wisdom and Intelligence. It doesn't matter how "moderate" V's Wisdom is if V's Intelligence has been ratcheted up to being able to see the big picture. Without a similarly high Wisdom, the perspective's still lost.


Funny, that's almost exactly what I said on one of the 'V has really low Wisdom' debates that cropped up some time ago. :smalltongue: I'd said that it's not that V's wisdom is low, but that it's not high enough to balance out his crazily high intelligence and academic way of looking at things.


Moreover, if Elan had realized it, and were faking a response, he'd probably have realized that the best response would probably have been to freak out. The only things that get through to V are humiliation (being turned into a lizard, mistreated by V's familiar, blowing up Iron Mage, being told point blank that V's understanding of the universe is fundamentally flawed), and being shown absolute proof of the consequences V's behavior has on others (Roy showing V down at their initial meeting, Haley showing V that V had hurt Elan unwittingly). Feigning stupidity doesn't save Elan's life, it just forestalls the inevitable confrontation between the exact same people for the exact same reasons. Freaking out would have probably had a similar effect, but may also have gotten V's attention in a way that illusory Belkar did not.

Finally, it's worth noting that neither V nor Elan have ever been shown to be particularly inclined to, or good at, lying.

You're right, that would've been a better solution, which is probably one of the reasons it didn't happen. XD I don't even mean Elan's incompetence, but that last panel left me chilled to the bone. I was thinking "Oh damn, V knows that he's failed to influence Elan so now he's going to go do something rash and dangerous!!!" Elan saying something to make Vaarsuvius snap out of it would have resolved the situation. It's much better (okay, probably not for the characters... XD) to let the drama blossom here.

[Trebuchet]

When I read #597, I was really tired and distracted, and I had to read over V's threat twice. I got that it was a threat, but V is really voluble sometimes and the details escaped me on first reading.

If Elan, who is tired, stressed, grieving, and furious, had trouble with it, I can certainly understand that. It was hard to believe V was standing there threatening to Disintegrate Elan.

My interpretation was that Elan was looking for some other way to parse the threat to make it mean something else. V didn't exactly go out of the way to be clear, either, so failing to follow one really awful conversation doesn't make Elan stupid.

[black_Lizzard]

Thank God, I'm not alone. It's not getting old, it's already dead an in process of being animated.

The way people obsess over it, maybe we could get it banned on the grounds of religious discussion. :smalltongue:

[Mina Kobold]

I agree with the fact that he can't understand. it's a normal psycologic reaction. if your brain belive that a very scary and bad thing is happening it either act normally or if it's really bad (like this) it simply disagree with reality and try every other possibility (like stupity) first if it can't find other it breaks and you freak out and or go crazy.
simble plus the way he tell V about it sound like one of those kids that think they got it all right and that nobody else not even the smart adults have it right.

[Kaytara]

The way people obsess over it, maybe we could get it banned on the grounds of religious discussion. :smalltongue:

Easy there, TVTropes is not the devil. More to the point, there's nothing wrong with using jargon when talking about storytelling conventions. That's the whole point of jargon, it saves space, time, effort, and minimizes the chances of misunderstanding. Instead of having to spend a paragraph describing the fine details of what you're trying to say, you can just link to the page, where it's all nicely packed and phrased, and people will know what you mean.

The real problem is that people are now mostly just using it to show off how savvy and geeky they supposedly are, instead of using it as basis to make a point. It IS redundant to call out every trope that crops up in the story simply for the sake of calling it out. Perhaps we should all just agree to limit the use of TVTropes links to actual discussions rather than just "Lol, Kubota has crossed into MB territory now!"

*sigh*
See this? I wrote a freaking essay. XD Imagine how easier the past minute of your life would've been if I'd just linked to a cozy little definition somewhere. XD

EDIT:
I agree with the fact that he can't understand. it's a normal psycologic reaction. if your brain belive that a very scary and bad thing is happening it either act normally or if it's really bad (like this) it simply disagree with reality and try every other possibility (like stupity) first if it can't find other it breaks and you freak out and or go crazy.
simble plus the way he tell V about it sound like one of those kids that think they got it all right and that nobody else not even the smart adults have it right.

I agree, and now that I think of it I remember Belkar acting the same way when he saw that he could no longer reach Hinjo's junk... Belkar chose to cling to some contrived idea of V playing a prank on him instead of believing what was plainly before his eyes.

[Kish]

My main issue is that Elan is a Bard.

Social interactions are their thing.
But Elan is not a generic A Bard. He's Elan--a very specific bard with single-digit Intelligence and Wisdom, no ranks in Sense Motive, and a long history of being amiably more dangerous to his friends than Belkar.

[Laurentio II]

Thank God, I'm not alone. It's not getting old, it's already dead an in process of being animated.
Oh, so it must be an undead horse (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UndeadHorseTrope).
Personally, I think that it's nothing different from the Wikipedia. Useful to give an indication to people that care to check, without having to post a long text that most likely half of the reader would gladly ignore. In the example, everyone that knows what an Undead Horse trope can go and learn, while everyone that already know, or don't care, have just spent the lapse of two words.

Yes, it can be annoying when you meet people very fond of being the only one (read: last of five millions) to read and know it. But really, you are in a forum where there is people believing that "OMG!" is the new rage.

[Prowl]

I would like to cast my vote in favor of the beating and flogging of anybody who links to or refers to anything in terms of tropes. By reducing (seemingly) everything to tropes or variations thereof, it really sucks the life out of the comic itself. A work of art is not simply the sum of its parts as is suggested by the obsessive overuse of trope references.

It was interesting the first couple of times I saw it, but now I can't read a thread on this forum without seeing a half-dozen trope links on every page.

[B. Dandelion]

I would like to cast my vote in favor of the beating and flogging of anybody who links to or refers to anything in terms of tropes. By reducing (seemingly) everything to tropes or variations thereof, it really sucks the life out of the comic itself. A work of art is not simply the sum of its parts as is suggested by the obsessive overuse of trope references.
All that would do is kick off this month's version of organ harvesting. No thanks.


It was interesting the first couple of times I saw it, but now I can't read a thread on this forum without seeing a half-dozen trope links on every page.
I suggest you just ignore it. The site is a great deal of fun at first, and for some people it takes longer for the humor of it to wear off, but eventually the fad will die.... or, well, it'll ebb down to tolerable levels at any rate. It'll become equivalent to referencing AYBABTU -- acceptable if intended as retro-chic, an eye-roller otherwise.

(Am I the only one who finds it really funny their OOTS page notes that people from the Tropes site are considered celebrities here? From the trend I'm seeing, it's more like walking targets...)

[Warren Dew]

The site is a great deal of fun at first

I missed that part ... for me, it must have worn off just before I first clicked on a link to it.

That said, I agree with ignoring the cites. Few of the posts that refer to the site have anything useful to say, anyway.

[AKA_Bait]

(Am I the only one who finds it really funny their OOTS page notes that people from the Tropes site are considered celebrities here? From the trend I'm seeing, it's more like walking targets...)

Um. What? I don't think I understood this paragraph. Like, at all.

[Trizap]

tvtropes is not that bad y'know, I just don't quote it tha's all, I just use it to learn about the many techniques of stories so I could use em in my own! hows that for planning?

and its funny in the "this was written by a bunch of zany people with a good sens of humor" way

[B. Dandelion]

I missed that part ... for me, it must have worn off just before I first clicked on a link to it.
I found Tropes before I found OOTS. I fact I found OOTS because of Tropes, so I really can't help but maintain some fondness for it.


Um. What? I don't think I understood this paragraph. Like, at all.

From the TV Tropes page on OOTS: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrderOfTheStick)

Order of the Stick was one of the original reasons for the "Giant in the Playground" gaming site, which it now shares with Erfworld. The GitP forums are almost an unofficial troper forum (thanks in part to OOTS' distinct appeal to tropers), with the TV Tropes site and concept being universally recognised, trope names being thrown about regularly and well-known tropers often getting Bright Young Thing (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForumPeckingOrder) status simply by virtue of being tropers.
(Bolding mine)

Has anyone seen a case of this actually happening on the forum? I have no idea who writes most of the trope articles, or who is considered a "well-known troper." I would like to know who specifically added that line -- methinks someone needs a good pinprick to an over-inflated ego, when citing tropes around here is far more likely to get you killfilled (i.e. put on the ignore list) than welcomed with open arms.

Anyway does that clear it up for you?

[Noobfish]

Either Elan acted stupid because he is, well, stupid, OR he was intelligent enough to act in a way he knew would put V in an awkward position, thus outsmarting the 18-INT wizard.

Whichever you think is most likely...

[ericgrau]

This seems more convenient for the Giant than for Elan. Sort of like when Haley threatened to boot Belkar from the party, then immediately hit the memory charm. I wonder if she would have been that extreme if there was no memory charm to provide the amusing contrast.

While not the nicest character around, V has still been helpful so far. Most likely she was just trying to threaten him. At least this time.

[Roderick_BR]

Knowing things are not the same as being good at noticing subtetly(sp?).
I'd say that Elan actually pretends to be smart sometimes :smallamused:
He does force his stereotypes, though, for dramatic purposes, sometimes.

[AKA_Bait]

From the TV Tropes page on OOTS: (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OrderOfTheStick)
(Bolding mine)

Has anyone seen a case of this actually happening on the forum? I have no idea who writes most of the trope articles, or who is considered a "well-known troper." I would like to know who specifically added that line -- methinks someone needs a good pinprick to an over-inflated ego, when citing tropes around here is far more likely to get you killfilled (i.e. put on the ignore list) than welcomed with open arms.

Anyway does that clear it up for you?

Huh. Yeah it does make it clear. I have to agree though that I haven't the slightest clue as to who these scions of the TV Tropes are. I mean, they do get brought up a lot, but we are certianly not a min-forum for TV Tropes for gosh shakes. Linking a trope has never raised or reduced my respect for another poster. It doesn't particularly annoy me because I always hover over a link before I click through it and if I don't feel like going to look a one (trope or no) I just keep on reading the thread and forget about it. Even when I do reat them, I find the links interesting sometimes but I hardly ever even remember who supplied the link let alone think they are awesome for doing so.


Back to the topic, Elan is charismatic but dumb. Being really charismatic can help make some people who are dumb seem smart sometimes, but it doesn't make them so.

[JaxGaret]

Huh. Yeah it does make it clear. I have to agree though that I haven't the slightest clue as to who these scions of the TV Tropes are. I mean, they do get brought up a lot, but we are certianly not a min-forum for TV Tropes for gosh shakes. Linking a trope has never raised or reduced my respect for another poster. It doesn't particularly annoy me because I always hover over a link before I click through it and if I don't feel like going to look a one (trope or no) I just keep on reading the thread and forget about it. Even when I do reat them, I find the links interesting sometimes but I hardly ever even remember who supplied the link let alone think they are awesome for doing so.

Self-aggrandizement (or mild delusions of grandeur) seems to be the likely culprit here.


Back to the topic, Elan is charismatic but dumb. Being really charismatic can help make some people who are dumb seem smart sometimes, but it doesn't make them so.

Agreed, but I always thought that Elan (and Belkar for that matter) suffers from terminally low Wisdom, but has a pretty average Intelligence.

[Ron Miel]

I think that Elan is secretly smart, and has been playing the trope of the idiot since the start.

[recluso]

While Elan could be brighter, V could be a lot more clear

"Do as you wish" gives some room to assume that telling Hinjo won't get Elan removed, that only some other things might - like continuing to bother V with annoying illusions and morals.

In the last panel Elan talks about distracting V *anymore*, so Elan equated
"distracting" with his moralizing in 596/597.
Now suppose that Elan decided in panel 7 to dump the V-case on Hinjo and not bother with V himself for a while, then V's whole threat would feel redundant and not so dangerous.

Using "remove" instead of "disintegrate", suggests that V does not like to connect Elan and disintegration and might use more benevolent means of
removing, appropriate to the target.
Not only suggests, actually. In fact, V does not disintegrate Elan.

In 596/1-7 V only gives the tieing as reason to execute Kubota.
In panel 8 V explains doing the readers a favor, not that Kubota's trial would be an distraction to V. Probably not, V can't remember enough to testify usefully and V managed to remain accepted while dodging nearly all other team activities.

So in 597 panel 7/8 "that which distracts me" is quite unclear - it is not obvious that Kubota was such.
As soon as Elan tells Hinjo, Hinjo might become a distraction, not Elan.

[AKA_Bait]

Agreed, but I always thought that Elan (and Belkar for that matter) suffers from terminally low Wisdom, but has a pretty average Intelligence.

Possibly. Sense motive is a wisdom based skill and Elan does seem to pull his stupidest antics when he misunderstands what someone else is talking about or doesn't get the sarcasm involved. Its' a tricky question since there is such grayness bettween those two stats.

I'd tend to think he has a low int anyway though, since even given his bard levels he still sucks at perform checks at least half of the time. He does even with an at least +4 bonus to those checks from his 18+ cha. That bespeaks few skill points, and thus a low int, to me.


While Elan could be brighter, V could be a lot more clear

"Do as you wish" gives some room to assume that telling Hinjo won't get Elan removed, that only some other things might - like continuing to bother V with annoying illusions and morals.

In the last panel Elan talks about distracting V *anymore*, so Elan equated
"distracting" with his moralizing in 596/597.
Now suppose that Elan decided in panel 7 to dump the V-case on Hinjo and not bother with V himself for a while, then V's whole threat would feel redundant and not so dangerous.

Using "remove" instead of "disintegrate", suggests that V does not like to connect Elan and disintegration and might use more benevolent means of
removing, appropriate to the target.
Not only suggests, actually. In fact, V does not disintegrate Elan.

In 596/1-7 V only gives the tieing as reason to execute Kubota.
In panel 8 V explains doing the readers a favor, not that Kubota's trial would be an distraction to V. Probably not, V can't remember enough to testify usefully and V managed to remain accepted while dodging nearly all other team activities.

So in 597 panel 7/8 "that which distracts me" is quite unclear - it is not obvious that Kubota was such.
As soon as Elan tells Hinjo, Hinjo might become a distraction, not Elan.

Well, I think it was pretty obvious that V intended to threaten Elan and it would have taken a pretty solid dunce not to get it. But then, Elan is a pretty solid dunce. Also, I don't think V wanted to seriously threaten Elan, or had the heart to carry through on any serious threat. V is clearly angry, s/he thinks that Elan has been cheating on Haley and wasting time rather than trying to save her, and the threat follows right after that exchange. V could have made the threat crystal clear, but I think Elans being dense diffused some of V's anger making hir calm enough to realize s/he wouldn't follow through on it anyway and not bother.

[recluso]

Well, I think it was pretty obvious that V intended to threaten Elan and it would have taken a pretty solid dunce not to get it. But then, Elan is a pretty solid dunce.

I see Elan failed to notice V tried to *bluff* a threat.
I think Elan *did* get that V was angry and that some threat towards him existed, but just understood too well it was not that dangerous.

Suppose Elan thought V only demanded to stop bothering V, which he planned anyway.
Suppose "I don't get it" (panel 10) refers to the intensity of V's anger.


Also, I don't think V wanted to seriously threaten Elan, or had the heart to carry through on any serious threat.

Suppose Elan *knew* that - even panel 11 only has the soft "Remove" while V really tried to be explicit.
Elan says "What are you getting at?" because again he considers V's tone of voice un-understandably exaggerated, when all V is planning is getting into a room to study and magically knocking Elan out of it in case Elan follows, which he won't do.

V tried to bluff a threat but the bluff was too obvious, Elan saw how not-dangerous it really was and was not impressed.


V is clearly angry, s/he thinks that Elan has been cheating on Haley


If part of what V demands is not to cheat on Haley, Elan has no big worries. He doesn't cheat and won't. V's misunderstanding is unfortunate but will be explained in time (V's threat is on future actions)


and wasting time rather than trying to save her, and the threat follows right after that exchange.

I think V does not believe in Elan's problem solving abilities and expects nothing from him, except leaving V alone.


V could have made the threat crystal clear

I think V still has not lost it enough to be able to make a real threat.


but I think Elans being dense diffused some of V's anger making hir calm enough to realize s/he wouldn't follow through on it anyway and not bother.

Maybe V just hoped to bluff-threat Elan out of telling Hinjo, seeing that as a bit more convenient, but has sufficient self-thrust not to be too afraid of Hinjo.


PS:
I can't explain "research *Haste*" in panel as anything but utter confusion. If Elan left the "Haste" out however, he might have been spot on right.

[K2]

It's possible to be dumb and know it. For example, I'm a total hypochondriac but I'm aware of it.

No, you just think your a hypochondriac. the truth is that you are really really sick.

[JaxGaret]

Possibly. Sense motive is a wisdom based skill and Elan does seem to pull his stupidest antics when he misunderstands what someone else is talking about or doesn't get the sarcasm involved.

That was part of my reasoning, yeah.


Its' a tricky question since there is such grayness bettween those two stats.

There is some overlap, yes. More so than any other two attributes, certainly.


I'd tend to think he has a low int anyway though, since even given his bard levels he still sucks at perform checks at least half of the time. He does even with an at least +4 bonus to those checks from his 18+ cha. That bespeaks few skill points, and thus a low int, to me.

Well, you only need but two sp/level to boost Perform (Lute) and Perform (Singing). As a Human, even if his Int is as low as a 6, he still gets 5 sp/level, plenty to max out both Performs as well as Tumble and whatever other skills he uses. Though he did use the kazoo that one time... :smallsmile:


No, you just think your a hypochondriac. the truth is that you are really really sick.

Or on the path to being so. Excessive worry weakens the immune system, you know.

[AKA_Bait]

Well, you only need but two sp/level to boost Perform (Lute) and Perform (Singing). As a Human, even if his Int is as low as a 6, he still gets 5 sp/level, plenty to max out both Performs as well as Tumble and whatever other skills he uses. Though he did use the kazoo that one time... :smallsmile:


Thing is though, we know that Elan has an int penalty (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=211493#post211493). We don't know specifically how much.

We also know that he has ranks in other skills, like hide (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0468.html), and ride (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html) as well as tumble and three perform skills (sing, stringed instrument, and wind instrument (kazoo)). I'd also expect, although we don't have direct evidence, that he probably has a rank or two in Perform: Puppets also. The fact that he's a bard only serves to add to the point that his int must be pretty darn low given how bad he is at those two central class skills (the perform sing and string).